Washington Post calls GameCube "obsolete", recommends PS2/Xbox for Holiday gifts...
- Thread starter Willco
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APerfectCircle
Member
Does anyone have a perception on what casual gamers want? It's not like everyone looks 8 months into the future and see's 40 games and starts downloading video's for them.
The gamecube has, Madden-check, need for speed- check, tony hawk- check, Fifa=check, bond games- check. You see where im heading. You can't realisticly say it's not worth it for a 15 yr old kid to get a gamecube with Tony hawk underground, need for speed and the sims, when likely thatys what he woulda got on the ps2.
How many people do you know that buy more than 5-6 games a year, people on this forum are the minorit.
*PS* i only red first 3 pages mainly.
The gamecube has, Madden-check, need for speed- check, tony hawk- check, Fifa=check, bond games- check. You see where im heading. You can't realisticly say it's not worth it for a 15 yr old kid to get a gamecube with Tony hawk underground, need for speed and the sims, when likely thatys what he woulda got on the ps2.
How many people do you know that buy more than 5-6 games a year, people on this forum are the minorit.
*PS* i only red first 3 pages mainly.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
MrparisSM said:
KOTOR II - I'm buying the PC version.
Forza - Let's be real, it's no Gran Turismo.
Unreal Championship 2 - Unreal in 3rd person? No thanks. I'll stick with UT2004.
Doom 3 - An average game at best. At least the PC version has impressive graphics.
Mech Wolf - never heard of it, can't comment
SCPT - Also available for the PC, PS2, and GC plus the PC version will probably be $30 or less a month after it's released.
None of those games are really worth buying a new system over IMO.
CrimsonSkies
Member
"I think he meant besides racers and online games. And shooters too I guess."
And Sports games. Oh wait. We have just eliminated 80% of the market. And in that 20% are die hard RPG fans. Jade Empire. Ever heard of it?
"None of those games are really worth buying a new system over IMO."
That's why Halo 2 is on the system. That's the seller. You're just listing the icing on the cake, as is the case with nearly every consoles lineup in history. The thing is if things happen as rumored then the Xbox will also get MGS3 and GTA:SA next year as well. Not only will it have the best looking 3rd party titles, it will also have a very attractive lineup of games for anyone wanting to buy a console. You're talking about selling this console to someone when these games are already out. You can make a top 10 Xbox list in the middle of 2005 that's as good as the PS2. That's saying a lot for the console market.
And Sports games. Oh wait. We have just eliminated 80% of the market. And in that 20% are die hard RPG fans. Jade Empire. Ever heard of it?
"None of those games are really worth buying a new system over IMO."
That's why Halo 2 is on the system. That's the seller. You're just listing the icing on the cake, as is the case with nearly every consoles lineup in history. The thing is if things happen as rumored then the Xbox will also get MGS3 and GTA:SA next year as well. Not only will it have the best looking 3rd party titles, it will also have a very attractive lineup of games for anyone wanting to buy a console. You're talking about selling this console to someone when these games are already out. You can make a top 10 Xbox list in the middle of 2005 that's as good as the PS2. That's saying a lot for the console market.
KotOR II comes out Tues.MrparisSM said:
Chaos Theory will be as exclusive as RE4.
GCN owners aren't interested in the other games you mentioned. As they aren't Iron Phoenix, SW: Republic Commando, and Advent Rising which could be great too.
Monkey Ball DX, Dragon Ball Z Sagas, King of Fighters 02/03, Wrestlmania XXI, and Winning Eleven are also listed on EB for next year though.
CrimsonSkies said:
He never said sports (those are actually on the GC :lol). Online isn't too big (yet, but it's growing fast).
Shooters and realistic racers (if that encompasses arcade, sim, offroad, snowboarding, and Waverace type games, I don't know. Probably though) are a pretty big part of the industry though.
Redbeard said:
Well it did, but thanks for clarifying, and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. It just sounded like an "OH YEAH!? WELL..." type of post to me.
Last January some punk used EBGames list as proof only twentysomething games were to be released throughout 2004 for the GameCube. GAF had a thread in the hundreds about that list.Subitai said:
Look at the games in EB's database and it just becomes a joke. Kameo is coming out January 3rd on Xbox! Acclaim are publishing Worms 3D for Xbox on January 11th!
I don't have the time to pick out later examples but there are suspiciously a lot of stuck in development hell games like Fast and the Furious that have been put in early 2005 just because EB has nowhere else to put 'em. On the flipside THQ and Activision have announced most of their 2005 line-ups for GameCube neither the second or third biggest third party publishers have a game listed in EB's database.
Those statistics are worthless.
Casuals want GTA: SA. The latest Dragon Ball and Smackdown help too.APerfectCircle said:
The other stuff in demand is good too, but the problem is more selection they see than what is really available. I said in another post GCN has the smallest shelf space by a significant margin at most retailers. That's where they're losing people. Not having a game like Halo 2 this holiday hurts too.
CrimsonSkies
Member
"He never said sports (those are actually on the GC ). Online isn't too big (yet, but it's growing fast)."
Captain AniObviousHawk strikes again! I filled in the blank there as sports are also strong on the console.
Captain AniObviousHawk strikes again! I filled in the blank there as sports are also strong on the console.
It's not just EB. That was just a quick dirty example.cja said:
Casuals care about what they can get, and I keep saying MS has done a much better job at keeping close to Sony's releases than Nintendo. The result is most retailers have more space for XBX games. XBX has released ~150 more games in the US than GCN. Crap or not, it's made XBX and alternative to PS2 for casuals who do pick up or like the possibility of picking up "trash" like Wheel of Fortune, Risk, Barbie Horse Adventure, The Guy Game, and Chessmaster.
Back to your main point. For the ambivilent readers looking for gift advice. XBX isn't a bad deal for their tastes, and is better over the next year than GCN. If MS keeps mildly supporting XBX and the EA/Activision/THQ ports keep coming casuals might still be going for XBX in 2 years.
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
I'm a multi-console owner and own all three systems, though I've always been a huge Nintendo fan and I still am.
Regardless, when my two best friends told me they were buying systems (this was probably two years ago) and I asked them which, they said GC. Now these guys are casual as casual could be. I told them, despite my love for N-games, that they would probably be better served with PS2 or Xbox, but they wouldn't listen. "I always liked Nintendo games best", they said. Okay, I can't argue with that, so I didn't try to stop them. Now they are selling their cubes and buying Xboxes and PS2s. The lack of big name 3rd party games and deficiencies in certain genres has killed the Cube. These two guys don't give a crap about the color of the console or what the disc capacity is or any of that crap. They just want certain games and they aren't getting them.
Nintendo again dropped the ball and there's no denying it. The reasons are numerous and would fill several posts, so we won't get into that. The point is that that's two in a row and it's going to be a cold day in hell before any casual plops down 200-300 for a Nintendo system again. Two years ago I hated it when people suggested that Nintendo go the Sega third party route for console games, now I think that it's the absolute best thing that N could do. They need to make games, that's what they're good at, and maybe release their own controllers for each console (I love the cube controller, dislike the DS2, but that's me). Concentrate on hand-held hardware and leave the console hardware to somebody else.
The only thing that puzzles me is this. I know why Cube-owners rush to the N's defense, but why do cube-haters exist? Why do they care what happens to the console that they don't own? If so few games are coming out and it's "all over" then why all the attacks? I can think of two reasons:
1) Some folks are just mean and enjoy heaping suffering and torment on others
2) Many haters *wish* that they could play certain Nintendo-exclusive games but refuse to be bothered with the expense or trouble of a second or third console. The quicker Nintendo gives up, the quicker they get their wish. Perfectly logical.
Regardless, when my two best friends told me they were buying systems (this was probably two years ago) and I asked them which, they said GC. Now these guys are casual as casual could be. I told them, despite my love for N-games, that they would probably be better served with PS2 or Xbox, but they wouldn't listen. "I always liked Nintendo games best", they said. Okay, I can't argue with that, so I didn't try to stop them. Now they are selling their cubes and buying Xboxes and PS2s. The lack of big name 3rd party games and deficiencies in certain genres has killed the Cube. These two guys don't give a crap about the color of the console or what the disc capacity is or any of that crap. They just want certain games and they aren't getting them.
Nintendo again dropped the ball and there's no denying it. The reasons are numerous and would fill several posts, so we won't get into that. The point is that that's two in a row and it's going to be a cold day in hell before any casual plops down 200-300 for a Nintendo system again. Two years ago I hated it when people suggested that Nintendo go the Sega third party route for console games, now I think that it's the absolute best thing that N could do. They need to make games, that's what they're good at, and maybe release their own controllers for each console (I love the cube controller, dislike the DS2, but that's me). Concentrate on hand-held hardware and leave the console hardware to somebody else.
The only thing that puzzles me is this. I know why Cube-owners rush to the N's defense, but why do cube-haters exist? Why do they care what happens to the console that they don't own? If so few games are coming out and it's "all over" then why all the attacks? I can think of two reasons:
1) Some folks are just mean and enjoy heaping suffering and torment on others
2) Many haters *wish* that they could play certain Nintendo-exclusive games but refuse to be bothered with the expense or trouble of a second or third console. The quicker Nintendo gives up, the quicker they get their wish. Perfectly logical.
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
I disagree. You can get $60 for a working cube and one controller at GameRush\Blockbuster. That's a damn fine deal for a used $100 system. IMO, of course.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
I encourage all who are upset and discouraged by this WP piece to take the time to drop an email, make a phone call, or write a letter:
The Washington Post
1150 15th Street Northwest
Washington, DC 20071
703-469-2500
webnews@washingtonpost.com
With any luck, our concerns about this reckless attitude towards Nintendo and Nintendo fans will persuade the Washington Post to issue a retraction.
Happy hunting.
The Washington Post
1150 15th Street Northwest
Washington, DC 20071
703-469-2500
webnews@washingtonpost.com
With any luck, our concerns about this reckless attitude towards Nintendo and Nintendo fans will persuade the Washington Post to issue a retraction.
Happy hunting.
Gahiggidy said:I encourage all who are upset and discouraged by this WP piece to take the time to drop an email, make a phone call, or write a letter:
The Washington Post
1150 15th Street Northwest
Washington, DC 20071
703-469-2500
webnews@washingtonpost.com
With any luck, our concerns about this reckless attitude towards Nintendo and Nintendo fans will persuade the Washington Post to issue a retraction.
Happy hunting.
Don't you dare.
edit: Oh, I thought you posted his personal info. So sorry. Go ahead and be as obnoxious as you want, it only makes you look like bigger ner-- I mean, more passionate hobbyists.!
Kobun Heat
Member
An anagram of "Washington Post" is "Town gasp: no shit!"
Thank you.
Thank you.
Rumored by whom? It's rumored that Halo 2 will come to the PS2 in superior form. It's also rumored that Bungie is jumping ship, joining Nintendo as a 1st party. It goes both ways. There have been ZERO rumblings to lead anyone to believe MGS3 is headed to the Xbox. Given the eventual ports of GTA3 and GTA:VC, I think it's a foregone conclusion that GTA:SA will head to the Xbox -- though, likely not until next winter. Right now, however, only the PC version has been mentioned -- and that is said to arrive at the end of the summer.
Subjectively, you can. However you cannot in any quantifiable and qualitative sense make such an absurd statement.
cja said:
Hey, i think that punk was me. Its funny, because to me its a legit fact, the gc has less titles coming out when compared to ps2 and xbox. The ratio of cube to xbox and ps2 titles has been consistently been getting worse as each year passes. To me it showed the same mistake nintendo made last generation with n64, lack of 3rd party support. The ratio this year only backs up the trends I noticed last year.
I never claimed the list was perfect, or the dates would be correct, or all these titles will definately be released. But I think its a good guideline about future prospects that will most likely be released at some point, and the percentage of titles that will be delayed or canceled on the lists is probably close to the same on all systems. I think the ps2 has double the amount of games the GC has now, and the xbox has more than 200 games. I dont know if its greed or bad develper relationships, but this is the biggest reason that nintendo has lost all its market share imo. Sorry that info upset you, but I think it was relevant info.
Xbox has been agressive in the last few months. They've been selling at a similar level to PS2.
Which is why he probably said "equal", because their sure aint a console thats come close to PS2 in a long while (handhelds dont count, different market)
Good to see positive Xbox press, finally turning heads
Which is why he probably said "equal", because their sure aint a console thats come close to PS2 in a long while (handhelds dont count, different market)
Good to see positive Xbox press, finally turning heads
TheGreenGiant
Banned
Kobun Heat said:
is there a website where you can do that? Do anagrams? That's pretty cool. I never understood how some people can do anagrams off the top of their heads. I was watching this show and they had people who could look at a phrase and come up with anagrams. SHOCK AND AWE.
I hope you guys realise my momentum comment was meant to be ironic.
Donkeypuncher
Banned
I'm surprised this hasn't been locked yet.
briefcasemanx said:
Because if one were to take the ten highest rated titles in 2004, from the respective systems, the PS2 would be at the top. It saw the most AAA (according to rating) titles this year. Is it because the PS2 has more support? Probably, but that doesn't subtract from the falsity of painting the PS2 and Xbox as equals.
XS+ said:
Rated by whom? Is everyone now supposed to go to gamerankings.com to form their opinions? IMO (if i'm still allowed to have one), it is not that far off base. I would say if you took the top 8 than that would be a more accurate statement FOR ME.
As far as ratings, if that's what you want, xbox has 5 AAA titles (>or= 90%) in 2004 according to gamerankings. PS2 has 6, GC has 2.
I almost replied to this with a list!Subitai said:
Nintendo are supporting the GC with software for the next year, maybe two. Microsoft are supporting for the next three months, maybe a year. Microsoft have three confirmed Xbox games they're publishing from 2005 onwards; Nintendo of America have six games with another half-a-dozen announced by NCL which are likely to get released in the west. One console costs 50% more than the other. EA/Activision/THQ are irrelevant, they're largely supporting both. Third party exclusives are almost non-existant on either, Oddworld versus RE4, no contest. I don't see how the Xbox is a no.1 choice out of the three unless your favourite genre is shooters or you have to be online for multiplayer action.For gift advice I'd say give what the receiver wants, and that probably will be Xbox over the GameCube. Doesn't necessarily make it the most entertaining or value purchase though.
A legit fact that GC has fewer games, yes, I don't see anyone disputing that. But neither Manabyte's numbers nor yours were used for this purpose, even if they were intended as such. The lists are/were used to say the GameCube had only three more months of games left, that it is "obsolete".Flatbread said:
I'd argue that the lists fundamentally skew and exaggerate the difference. You have the first quarter releases, okay, but from April, the next financial year, forward most big, publicly listed, game publishers have yet to reveal their release information. There are a glut of games planned for the previous year that get dropped back and these are usually from the smaller, less organised, publishers who either have bad planning or don't strictly adhere to release dates whatever the quality of product. Unlike bigger publishers who get games out on time.
Imho GameCube hasn't lost marketshare due to lack of support. EA/THQ/Activision have 49% of the entire PS2 market all three support GC with almost their entire PS2 line-up. GameCube has lost marketshare simply because it isn't seen as a cool console. Why else would people buy virtually the same EA games on PS2 or Xbox in far greater numbers than on a far cheaper alternative?
cja said:
well truth be told there is more than one factor contributing to nintys gc failures, but I really dont think its "not cool" is a big factor at all, what is a bigger factor right now though is the xbox is the new in thing with halo 2, and the ps2 is just continuing its unrivaled popularity, leaving nintendo in the unfortunate category of third wheel.
I think your underestimating the importance of 3rd party support, its lack of sports titles and shooter action titles has hurt it badly. If you look at sales 3rd party games sell horribly on gc, much worse than its user base market share.
that said I have been thinking of getting a GC, i only own an xbox and have played lots and lots of games but would like to play metroid prime 1 & 2, zelda, mario sunshine, pikmen 1 and 2 and viewtiful joe, plus whatever else might be worthwhile.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/ , though I'm sure there are others.TheGreenGiant said:
But noone can even agree what AAA means. For instance, I wouldn't say AAA is greater than 90%. Does that make a 97% an AAAAAAA?XS+ said:
DopeyFish said:
So? More doesn't necessarily mean better. How many of these listing is for hardware and strategy guides and such nonsense.
I'm sure when E3 rolls around, all three systems will see a nice big list of upcoming titles.
For myself, as it currently stands, the Cube has the most titles I plan on buying next year. Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, StarFox Assault, Fire Emblem, and Zelda Next. The PS2 follows closely behind with Wanda and Dragon Quest 8 if it makes it here next year. For the Xbox, only Jade Empire. After Halo 2 and KOTOR 2, can you really blame me?
Littleberu
Banned
Sho Nuff said:
I don't know why I put a Vodafone sticker on it
Well, that's like your fault. It's not the Gamecube that's buying the games.
Gahiggidy said:I encourage all who are upset and discouraged by this WP piece to take the time to drop an email, make a phone call, or write a letter:
The Washington Post
1150 15th Street Northwest
Washington, DC 20071
703-469-2500
webnews@washingtonpost.com
With any luck, our concerns about this reckless attitude towards Nintendo and Nintendo fans will persuade the Washington Post to issue a retraction.
Happy hunting.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
When you wake up in the morning, do you try to figure out new and dramatic ways to look stupid?
TheGreenGiant said:
No.
soundwave05
Member
Washington Post is correct.
Aside from Nintendo-based titles there are really no new games coming for the GameCube exclusively being announced and really there probably isn't going to be any.
Even loyal supporters like Capcom are jumping off the ship.
I mean of course there's a controversial slant to it, but it reminds me of how riled up people got when Next Generation magazine ran a cover story with the title "What's Wrong With The Nintendo 64?" (with the cracked glass image of Mario).
Nintendo fans were up in arms about it, but really it was just Next Generation stating the obvious -- without CD-ROM support, the N64 would struggle to get a big enough library for the next four years.
Don't cry for Nintendo though, they're no where near like Sega. They're incredibly wealthy, will probably end up being successful with animated films, and are set to make almost a $1 billion dollar yearly profit next March even with the GCN struggling.
I hope Nintendo's next console is really, really out there. Even moreso than the DS. Like totally crazy and very different from any traditional console.
Aside from Nintendo-based titles there are really no new games coming for the GameCube exclusively being announced and really there probably isn't going to be any.
Even loyal supporters like Capcom are jumping off the ship.
I mean of course there's a controversial slant to it, but it reminds me of how riled up people got when Next Generation magazine ran a cover story with the title "What's Wrong With The Nintendo 64?" (with the cracked glass image of Mario).
Nintendo fans were up in arms about it, but really it was just Next Generation stating the obvious -- without CD-ROM support, the N64 would struggle to get a big enough library for the next four years.
Don't cry for Nintendo though, they're no where near like Sega. They're incredibly wealthy, will probably end up being successful with animated films, and are set to make almost a $1 billion dollar yearly profit next March even with the GCN struggling.
I hope Nintendo's next console is really, really out there. Even moreso than the DS. Like totally crazy and very different from any traditional console.