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[ArjanN]

because they're now pimping that they'll be adding this in; which is pushing what would otherwise not be in the game; so yes, feature creep. Linux/Mac ports; sure - it fundamentally doesn't change the game - adding the social stuff; it a) makes no sense in the game b) would have to be coded in on the grassroot level...

I can't say I personally care for it.

Linux and Mac ports seem much like 'feature creep' to me than these social elements. Not to mention we don't even exactly know what they are yet, so it seems really silly to me start shooting it down yet.

 

[Zeliard]

I don't think it's really fair to call additional ports feature creep. It doesn't impact the game itself; it just means more people will have access to it. And I think adding Mac/Linux support at $1.5 million is something they've been promising from the start.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

I don't think it's really fair to call additional ports feature creep. It doesn't impact the game itself; it just means more people will have access to it. And I think adding Mac/Linux support at $1.5 million is something they've been promising from the start.

I think he's talking about the promised social features.

 

[ArjanN]

I don't think it's really fair to call additional ports feature creep. It doesn't impact the game itself; it just means more people will have access to it. And I think adding Mac/Linux support at $1.5 million is something they've been promising from the start.

I meant it more in the way that those ports still take development time/money.

I don't think those ports or the social features really are feature creep though.

 

[duckroll]

I think if you read "We're looking at implementing social features" the way he intended it, as "The more money you're able to give, the more empowered we will be to expand the scope of the project and make it feel more robust", it would be a good motivator.

I realize that "if he meant that, he should have just said it", but I think he was probably looking for a specific example of something a polished, robust game would have that a smaller game wouldn't, and wanted to avoid saying "more quests!!! bigger world!!!!" or something vague like that.

Yeah I agree there. But the trick with these things is, it's all in how you say it, since otherwise there isn't really anything left to think about or talk about. He actually had a great element in that blog post about mod tools and such though, which got totally lost in the noise generated from the social elements he mentioned.

If he didn't mention the social elements and instead focused on something he knew the target audience *would* care about, it would have turned out much better. Promise a fully comprehensive and easy to use modular mod construction kit package with the game at 2 million, and suddenly fans who want to build their own Wasteland 2 component would get very excited imo.

 

[mclem]

If he didn't mention the social elements and instead focused on something he knew the target audience *would* care about, it would have turned out much better.

He probably thought he *did*.



Eurogamer does retrospectives of classic (and sometimes less-than-classic, but interesting) games over the weekend, and this week, 'cause it's topical, they've covered Wasteland. Hopefully that'll drive a bit more support in the direction of the Kickstarter.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-25-retrospective-wasteland

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Linux and Mac ports seem much like 'feature creep' to me

How?

All it is is porting the same game to another console.

That's not a feature.

If they actually listened to their audience, assuming they know who their audience actually is, things like KickStarter wouldn't be finding its place as an alternate funding source to the corporate publisher oligarchy.

This doesn't make any sense. They went to Kickstarter because they wanted to get away from publishers. They are using Kickstarter because they do know who their audence is. You make it sound like Kickstarter is just another PR event.

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

Fargo has written a blog post where he talks a bit more about the social features (still in very broad strokes) and admits a communication mistake with the latest Wasteland 2 update.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

This doesn't make any sense. They went to Kickstarter because they wanted to get away from publishers. They are using Kickstarter because they do know who their audence is. You make it sound like Kickstarter is just another PR event.

Honest question, what's the difference between "listening to your audience" and "market testing?" I don`t see any difference but the former seems to get a lot of hate on this site.

If they actually listened to their audience, assuming they know who their audience actually is, things like KickStarter wouldn't be finding its place as an alternate funding source to the corporate publisher oligarchy.

Makes sense to me, man. I was talking about the corporate publisher system who refused to go with WL2 or DFA, not inXile or other developers on KS who are listening to their audience and who do know what their audience wants, as evidenced by their success in raising over $1.5 million to make the game. The internet is fickle, of course, and plans/expectations don't always work out, so we won't know the ultimate answer until it's done.

 

[zkylon]

Fargo has written a blog post where he talks a bit more about the social features (still in very broad strokes) and admits a communication mistake with the latest Wasteland 2 update.

Cool, I hope we can all move on then. He also confirms there won't be a mod kit on launch.

 

[duckroll]

Looks likely that this will close in on 2 million towards the end of the funding period, and if there's a good injection in the final hours we'll see it end at anything from 2.2 to 2.5 million. That's my expectation.

 

[Minsc]

Cool, I hope we can all move on then. He also confirms there won't be a mod kit on launch.

Announcing a mod kit but funding it (partially) with post-release sales and adding it as a free update later is the perfect approach, as it won't delay the game further than necessary and mod kits are always welcome. Especially if it ends up being very versatile, the community probably will make some amazing things which will help add interest in the game long-term.

Hopefully we don't have to wait 7 or more months before they start showing some in-game concept screens, looking forward to seeing the interface/aesthetics of the art-style / game world.

 

[Zeliard]

Hopefully we don't have to wait 7 or more months before they start showing some in-game concept screens, looking forward to seeing the interface/aesthetics of the art-style / game world.

I think the reason some of that is taking a while - and will probably take further time still - is because they didn't seem sure until recently how they'd approach the viewpoint, i.e. isometric or something else.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

31,976 Backers

$1,597,080 pledged of $900,000 goal

20 days to go

Almost 1.6 million.

 

[Takeda Kenshi]

31,976 Backers

$1,597,080 pledged of $900,000 goal

20 days to go

Almost 1.6 million.

Looks like my prediction of 1.8-2.0m will come to pass. Should be more than enough to make a great game.

 

[subversus]

MF: The new Bard’s Tale is still sitting on my shelf. I love that game.

BF: Well, the hard core aren’t too fond of it, but it definitely has its fans. Here’s how I explain that game. I had just left Interplay, I was kinda in a funny mood and I was playing other people’s roleplaying games. They were sending me to kill rats in a cellar and I was like, “Are you kidding me? They’re still doing this stuff?” So, I was fed up and Bard’s Tale was my parody of it. So, I set out to do a light RPG that was a parody. For that effort, I think I deserve an A. For the hard core, they wanted an absolute Bard’s Tale sequel, so for them, it was an F. In my defense, I accomplished what I set out to do. Just like with this Wasteland game, this is what we’re going out to do: old-school RPG, deep cause and effect, dialog, exploration, etc. We’re now going to execute that. I understand why people weren’t happy with Bard’s Tale, but if you look at iTunes, it’s one of the highest rated RPGs out there. So, people like it, but if you were expecting a hardcore RPG, you wouldn’t have liked it.

the interview

edit: wow

MF: Why don’t we hear more about it…?

BF: Because they are afraid to talk, because they’ll never get another contract if they do. That’s why. You cannot believe… it’s awful. It’s really bad. You should try to dig in and get some stories out there. Look at the most recent one with those poor guys at Obsidian. They did Fallout: New Vegas, the ship date got moved up and, who does the QA on a project? The publisher is always in charge of QA. When a project goes out buggy, it’s not the developer. The developer never says, “I refuse to fix the bug,” or, “I don’t know how.” They never do that. It’s the publisher that does the QA, so if a product goes out buggy, it’s not the developer’s fault. So, (Fallout: New Vegas) goes out buggy and they didn’t do the QA, their ship date got moved up and they missed their metacritic rating by one point. Did they get a bonus? No. Do you think that’s fair? I tried to get some of my publisher friends, who I used to make a lot of money for, to donate. Do you think they donated? No. Their employees did.

edit2: hm....

MF: You mentioned Obsidian. Have you spoken with them?

BF: I talk to them all the time.

MF: Would you consider working with them, especially given their current troubles… maybe reform the Black Isle Voltron?

BF: They are still working on projects. It’s not like they are going away. I have a lot of love for those guys.

edit3: fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. now that is preposterous

BF: At least 25%. In some cases, 35%, because sometimes they insist on taking over functions like doing all the casting and audio recording, where they would spend way more than what we would, if it was our money. I mean, it is our money, because it’s advances, but they insist on taking it over. They can trump the cost up. When we did all of our directing, for all of our games, every project I had ever done, including Bard’s Tale with Cary Elwes, we directed the talent. We knew the material, so we could give them the context for each line. Well, the publishers would allow us to visit the studio, but we weren’t allowed to speak directly with the people doing the recording. They send some very expensive voice director in, and he directs them. We don’t even get to handle it. So, if the audio doesn’t come out quite right, the developer gets the negative mark, yet they aren’t the ones who get to be in charge of it. They aren’t allowed to. They aren’t allowed in the room.

MF: I think that there is this misconception among gamers that developers handle quality assurance and always have control over things like voice acting.

BF: If a product ships with bugs, somebody knew about them. So, if they aren’t getting fixed, I don’t think it’s because a developer refused to fix them. From my last project, I wasn’t allowed to do the cinematics. And what’s the first thing you see?

MF: The opening movie.

BF: Right… and I didn’t get to do it. There is so much that the publishers do that the developers get negatively affected by. As a developer, it’s frustrating. The developers don’t want to say anything because they know if they did the publishers aren’t going to want to do business with them. I think there is a direct correlation between the developers that have the power to kick (publishers) out of their office. Blizzard doesn’t have to put up with that. Epic doesn’t have to put up with that. Why do their products keep coming out one good one after another? Because they don’t have to listen to that.

 

[Portugeezer]

Seems legit.

 

[Lime]

That interview might deserve a new thread.

 

[zkylon]

the interview

edit: wow



edit2: hm....




edit3: fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. now that is preposterous

Great stuff. The social thing might've been a big screw up but I really like BF as a spokesman for these kind of projects. He sounds so fed up with publisher funding that he just doesn't care about making face anymore, and I applaud him for taking advantage of the situation to be "political" and help the industry dig itself out of its hole.

 

[Zeliard]

We'll still have apologists for publishers and Metacritic-based bonuses regardless of what any actual developer ever says.

 

[MrCunningham]

Time for a thread title change, it has just hit 1.6 million. I wonder how long it will take to reach 1.7 now?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I wonder how long it will take to reach 1.7 now?

Depends entirely on how many interviews Fargo does and, especially, how much WL2-related information is shared before April 17. I wish they'd start having some of the lead creatives give interviews. Some dedicated WL2 concept art and some rough outlines of the design and scenario would be nice.

 

[subversus]

Time for a thread title change, it has just hit 1.6 million. I wonder how long it will take to reach 1.7 now?

10 days

 

[Labadal]

1,6 mil. now.

I wonder how much it will be in the end.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Nice interview.

Not taking a salary for the game. Whoa.

 

[StoppedInTracks]

That interview is amazing. Someone do a new thread. Devs vs Pubs.

 

[akira28]

I'm going to go put some money in the bank tomorrow so I can help fund this. Woot! I'm in.

 

[duckroll]

That interview is amazing. Someone do a new thread. Devs vs Pubs.

There is already one.

 

[mclem]

Not taking a salary for the game. Whoa.

To be fair, that could just be the $100k that was available if it dropped shy of a million rearing up again; it amounts to much the same in principle.

 

[guidestone]

Fargo: “Nothing would make me happier,” than a chance to “build up” Black Isle again:
http://www.ripten.com/2012/03/28/brian-fargo-and-chris-avellone-on-resurrecting-black-isle/

 

[ZoddGutts]

10 days

I say they'll hit 1.7 either Saturday or Sunday.

 

[disappeared]

Fargo: “Nothing would make me happier,” than a chance to “build up” Black Isle again:
http://www.ripten.com/2012/03/28/brian-fargo-and-chris-avellone-on-resurrecting-black-isle/

Shit just got real.

 

[zkylon]

Brian gave me my first job in the industry, I loved being at Interplay while he was there, and I love Wasteland. If there was a way to work both with Obsidian and work with Brian and InXile, I would do it.

Man, all this teasing...is too much...

 

[Emitan]

Fargo: “Nothing would make me happier,” than a chance to “build up” Black Isle again:
http://www.ripten.com/2012/03/28/brian-fargo-and-chris-avellone-on-resurrecting-black-isle/

This is like when you wake up from a dream and are upset what you were dreaming about isn't real BUT THEN IT IS

 

[g23]

So is this gonna be an HD sequel in comparison to Fallout's production values? Or more of an XBLA/PSN type indie release?

 

[AndyMoogle]

So is this gonna be an HD sequel in comparison to Fallout's production values? Or more of an XBLA/PSN type indie release?

Fallout 1 cost more than what Wasteland 2 will cost.

Wasteland 2 will be in much higher res, obviously, and it's most likely going to have a bit better and more intuitive interface. But, it's not going to have much higher production values than Fallout 1. There won't be voice acting or any fancy cutscenes for example.

 

[Purkake4]

This is like when you wake up from a dream and are upset what you were dreaming about isn't real BUT THEN IT IS

Is this real life?

The great PC gaming renaissance is upon us!

 

[Sinatar]

So is this gonna be an HD sequel in comparison to Fallout's production values? Or more of an XBLA/PSN type indie release?

I'm not expecting much beyond say Spiderweb Software production values on this beyond having most likely better art.

 

[todahawk]

10 days

As soon as I get paid I'm plopping money down.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

I'm not expecting much beyond say Spiderweb Software production values on this beyond having most likely better art.

It'll be way beyond Spiderweb's output. Spiderweb games are made by 1 guy with a couple of outsourced artists on shoestring budgets and tested by community volunteers, definitely nowhere even remotely near 1.6 million+ dollars.

 

[NeededSleep]

Pooped out some money for this one. 60 down!

 

[Emitan]

Pooped out some money for this one. 60 down!

Can I have some poop money?

 

[NeededSleep]

Can I have some poop money?

Do you want change or bills?
keep your plastic baggie close at hand!

 

[zkylon]

I'm not expecting much beyond say Spiderweb Software production values on this beyond having most likely better art.

Why? Jeff Vogel's games cost way less than 2m to make.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

That was a damn fine interview, very candid.

 

[Zeliard]

Fallout 1 cost more than what Wasteland 2 will cost.

Wasteland 2 will be in much higher res, obviously, and it's most likely going to have a bit better and more intuitive interface. But, it's not going to have much higher production values than Fallout 1. There won't be voice acting or any fancy cutscenes for example.

Nor should there be. It's not only an issue of cost but an issue of gameplay. Limiting voice acting and cutscenes and largely going with text will allow for potentially much more variety and divergence in dialogue choices and player choice in general. It'll allow them to be more experimental and creative in those areas.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

On his Twitter page, Fargo has linked to a gamesindustry.biz article about Double Fine's success on KickStarter being directly responsible for causing a HUGE upswing in pledges for all other projects resulting in a huge net gain that is, I assume, holding or growing right now.

In the month prior to Double Fine, the video games category averaged 629 pledges per week, and after Double Fine, that figured skyrocketed to an average of 9,755 pledges per week, excluding pledges to Double Fine itself. Moreover, looking at the financial side, $1,776,372 was pledged to the video games category in Kickstarter's first two years, but in the six weeks after Double Fine, $2,890,704 was pledged - $6,227,075 if you include Double Fine's massive haul.

Kickstarter noted that of the 60,000 people whose first-ever pledge was to Double Fine, 13,715 of them (22 percent) have backed another project, totaling $877,171. The bulk of that (almost $640k) went to game-related projects.

There's also a nice graph there to visually illustrate the growth, overall, that has occurred with the success of DFA on KickStarter. Impressive and important changes are happening right now, folks.

 

[Tim-E]

Fargo: “Nothing would make me happier,” than a chance to “build up” Black Isle again:
http://www.ripten.com/2012/03/28/brian-fargo-and-chris-avellone-on-resurrecting-black-isle/

I'm going to have a heart attack.

 

[duckroll]

Fallout 1 cost more than what Wasteland 2 will cost.

Wasteland 2 will be in much higher res, obviously, and it's most likely going to have a bit better and more intuitive interface. But, it's not going to have much higher production values than Fallout 1. There won't be voice acting or any fancy cutscenes for example.

Did Fallout 2 cost more or less than Fallout 1?

 

[Pachterballs]

@BrianFargo
We have a very exciting update in regards to #Wasteland2 coming today....

Yipee? I hope its excitingggg!!!!!!

Its at 1.65million now. Its probably going to hit 2 million.