What does Final Fantasy XVI need to do in order to impress?

SantaC

SantaC

Member
S-E has failed to live up to expectations in the last few entries of the (single player) main series.

So what could they do in order to impress with FF16? Plus gamers arent easy to satiesfy these days.

First of all I want the story to not be a total trainwreck; then they might impress me.
 
"Do a 360 and walk away" from the precedent they have established with XIII and XV.

I would love to see a serious take on a Western RPG from a Japanese studio. I envision an open world Vagrant Story with strong side quests. In this universe, JPOP and KPOP characters will have been blasted into shark infested waters.
 
Exist?
 
It's not that difficult. Much of the issues extended from development issues which weighed down the quality of other aspects due to the inability to focus on them. Reading Toriyama's FFXIII postmortem back in the day was eye-opening. I'm aware FFVIIR isn't out yet, but that already exudes a lot more confidence than anything Square has attempted to put out for single-player FF in the past 2 generations.

Create a title where the story goes out of its way to be complete even if it's intending a sequel. Depict the lore, terms, pick up on what is foreshadowed, etc.

Another is obviously work with an engine and development tools that work for you, which thankfully they have made these alterations and why FFVIIR and KH3 are working/worked out.

I don't think they have much issue in the battle system department, but just have an ample amount of variety in other places. Personally thought FFXIII sequels were particularly good in this area. It was fun.
 
Pretty boys, and also beautiful girls.

but i can think of nothing more impressive than including the entirety of Prey 2 in-game as an easter egg
 
fallingdove said:
"Do a 360 and walk away" from the precedent they have established with XIII and XV.

I would love to see a serious take on a Western RPG from a Japanese studio. I envision an open world Vagrant Story with strong side quests. In this universe, JPOP and KPOP characters will have been blasted into shark infested waters.
Click to expand...

Hell no. They need to focus on what makes a JRPG good, not try to copy what the west does. It isn't why I buy JRPGs and it would further isolate long-time fans. The "feminine" character designs have been a staple ever since the very first game, thanks to the artwork provided by Yoshitaka Amano.

OT: I think that Final Fantasy XVI needs to do 3 things in order to come back in full form:

1.) Solid planning with specific deadlines and avoiding feature crunch/rewrites.
2.) Well paced gameplay and story with ample side activities that reward explorative players.
3.) Not showing or announcing the game until a year from release.

I enjoyed the concepts behind FFXV and I consider it a solid entry in the series, despite its development problems. It is on par with some of the more 'average' final fantasy games, like X, XII, and V, IMO. It isn't anywhere near as piss poor as XIII was.
 
Bring back exploration like 7, 8 and 9 had. I dont care if the characters are chibi or more realistic. Adopt a new combat system. FF15s system need to be buried. Jesus hell fix the english voice acting.
 
Avoid the trappings of DLC, value quality game play and a solid story over pushing graphics. Don't be afraid to return to form with systems like turn-based battles that introduce unique strategies -- Bravely Default handled this brilliantly, for example. Introduce characters that are enjoyable and complex that make sense for the story and world. No prequel movies to understand the plot. Release a complete, finished product in one go that doesn't take a year+ of updates to become playable.
 
-don't take a decade to make it
-develop the characters in the game, not in DLC
-have the story fully in the game, not in DLC, anime, and a movie
-don't have a shit magic system
-make a world that's visually interesting but also logical ("hey guys, how do you think my Game of Thrones-cosplaying dad is doing? Wait, hold that thought, I see a gas station up ahead")
-don't expect us to have an emotional reaction to a character who was barely in the game

And so on and so forth.
 
I don't know about anybody else, so I'll just say what I want.

Get a good vision for the story. Not just what will sell, but be daring and really have something cohesive, with great characters.

And then, bring back the battle system that I love, which is old school turn based.

Done.
 
One of the biggest weaknesses for me personally has been the voice work of every game since X. It basically ranges from "Terrible" to "I want to reach through the TV and strangle Hope/Vanille".

So yeah, let's start there. Get some voice work that's not absolutely embarrassing.
 
Claus Grimhildyr said:
Hell no. They need to focus on what makes a JRPG good, not try to copy what the west does. It isn't why I buy JRPGs and it would further isolate long-time fans. The "feminine" character designs have been a staple ever since the very first game, thanks to the artwork provided by Yoshitaka Amano.

OT: I think that Final Fantasy XVI needs to do 3 things in order to come back in full form:

1.) Solid planning with specific deadlines and avoiding feature crunch/rewrites.
2.) Well paced gameplay and story with ample side activities that reward explorative players.
3.) Not showing or announcing the game until a year from release.

I enjoyed the concepts behind FFXV and I consider it a solid entry in the series, despite its development problems. It is on par with some of the more 'average' final fantasy games, like X, XII, and V, IMO. It isn't anywhere near as piss poor as XIII was.
Click to expand...

Are feminine characters what make JRPGs good? I would argue no.

JRPG characters have become so cookie cutter, you could swap any non-distinct hero/heroine from 90% of the Tales and Xenoblades and Final Fantasies and Ateliers from the past 10 years and none of them would seem out of place.

JRPGs have become so stale that outside of Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts, the genre is now selling sub 1mil per game.

Were there anime qualities to the classic JRPGs of the 90s? Sure. Do JRPGs need to completely ditch their anime foundations? God no. But every character doesn't need to be a copy/paste of the 10 JRPG casts in closest proximity.

By all means, give me an Amano-esque art style (I would argue that his style is not so much feminine as much as it is dream-like or "fantasy 😉"-like) at least the cast would look and feel different. And maybe, just maybe, by throwing Nomura out with his excessive usage of belts and zippers, Final Fantasy XVI might inspire the next round of differentiation in a genre that I hold as dear as this one.
 
FF16 needed to have the story in the game.

From what I hear, the game developers were split between the writers and the graphic designers, and the graphic designers were making things before the story was ever fleshed out. And that lead to game assets that gets made which never gets used, because they were never in the script.

That's ass backwards. Finish the damn script, THEN start making assets. Or you get the FF13 situation where they literally built sequels out of the unused art assets. I don't know who's idea it was to make a game without a damn script. it didn't work for making hollywood movies, it isn't going to work for games either.
 
easy:

return to the story telling of 6-9.

make an overworked map.

had cool diverse charecters

have a fun battle system

have fun mini games

Have cool diverse towns and cities to see and explore.

havinteresting villains that are also cool

Have a trading card game built in


seriously square, just go back to the old formula
 
Create a good story and have a clear vision on how to tell that story. Have a smooth development timeline. Don't put the story into a bunch of lame movies and DLC.
 
JORMBO said:
Create a good story and have a clear vision on how to tell that story. Have a smooth development timeline. Don't put the story into a bunch of lame movies and DLC.
Click to expand...
The FFVII remake might be a good (re)learning experience for the studio. Basically they know the plot already, and as such they focus only on making the game. It seems all the recent FF games had unfinished or half baked scripts.
 
For me, the staples that made FF great was having a enthralled world where you got swept up in adventure, turn based battles, and great music.

9 is and always has been my favorite. It was such a light tale that had you going to unique places and a sense of wonder.

7 had this as well. 8 was a little more intimate with the focus being more on characters, the Laguna sequences felt more adventurous.

10 was pretty linear and didn't feel so much as an adventure as it felt like a bleak and dire journey towards your demise. It just had a different feel.

12, I only played once and can't honestly attest to its offerings. I recall it being more serious and dealing with more political dealings of Ivalice.

13 I felt was the same way. So really, I guess more of a light hearted adventure for a story? I'm having a hard time explaining it. Less politics and more getting swept up in bizarre worlds and having that sense of wonder??? Think One Piece.
 
After experiencing all of it now, I enjoyed the story of FFXV, JUST PUT IT ALL IN THE FUCKING GAME! I made the mistake of playing the game blind without watching Kingsglaive, and it took me almost 3/4 through the game before I even began to understand what the fuck was happening in the world.

Wait, is Lucis the entire continent, or just the city that was sacked? Watch the film.

Why is Noctis the only one who can warp? Magic royal powers, watch the film.

What the hell happened to Gladio and Ignis? Play the DLC outside of the game, too bad about the Prompto DLC you'll never get.

Ardyn is actually a cool villain, but who the hell IS he? Watch the Ardyn anime short, play the Ardyn DLC.

As I said before, the story is quite good if you experience it all in the proper order. Don't just play the game straight through, you won't have any context for what's happening or characters that you're supposed to care for.

Start FFXV, play to the end of chapter 1
Watch Kingsglaive
Play FFXV to the end of chapter 6
Play Episode Gladio
Play FFXV to the end of chapter 9
Play Episode Ignis
Play FFXV to the end of chapter 13 (you can tell where the Prompto dlc was supposed to go)
Watch the Ardyn short, and play Episode Ardyn
Finish FFXV

This is not how you tell a compelling story.
 
Focus on story, character, dialog. Then, build everything around those.

They seem to desperately want to be some visual powerhouse at the cost of everything else. It doesn't have to look that great. Just make a good battle system and have an engaging story. And you really do not need to be open world...
 
A good combat system for once, not another barely serviceable gameplay at best. That'll make me impressed, rather than just graphics
 
I'd like them to build on the foundation laid by FF 14: numerous races and jobs, some of them non-combat focused. Dynamic open world with crafting, harvesting, property-ownership, etc

But single player.
 
DunDunDunpachi said:
I'd like them to build on the foundation laid by FF 14: numerous races and jobs, some of them non-combat focused. Dynamic open world with crafting, harvesting, property-ownership, etc

But single player.
Click to expand...
After ff12, I refuse to play another offline mmo. Give me a real single player game, and stop with the randomised chest drops.
 
SantaC2 said:
So what could they do in order to impress with FF16?
Click to expand...

There is nothing they can do.

Oh wait.... actually there is one thing: Matsuda could fire everyone at their "Square"-side, then ensemble a team of all former devs who worked an Final Fantasy VII and 9 and let them make a true Final Fantasy game again.
After that, once the game ships, he should include a handwritten apology with every single copy of the new game, apologizing for all the shitty games their former "Square"-side has produced.
 
Finally accept that it wants to do action, and go all the way in that instead of remaining in a weird "in between" situation trying to satisfy old school fans and action fans, because they never managed to do that.
Everytime we get a Final Fantasy that tries to be "action", it's always some super weird gameplay with strange gimmicks and features that never really truly feel action, it always feel like it's being held back because they never dare to really do action.

They try do something more action, but also try to offer some fake sense of "strategy" (and let's be honest, it has always been fake even in old school games, turn based is really not that strategic, it's not because you select actions in a menu instead of doing them in real time that it's more strategic, the only few situations where menu based combats can be okay is during long boss fights), and because of that, none of these demographics are satisfied, it pleases neither old school fan and neither people trying to find a more modern, real time gameplay.

They are once again doing this for Final Fantasy VII Remake, it's more action, but, to please the old school fans, they added an option to use ATB, option which will probably be useless and not used by that much people, but it's there, and because of that the game will have been made in a way that it's beatable with this type of gameplay, so it will never really feel like a challenging action game.

I don't know, it's just always super weird and it's annoying, just pick something and fully do it instead of doing these weird mix that don't really work that well.
 
fallingdove said:
Are feminine characters what make JRPGs good? I would argue no.

JRPG characters have become so cookie cutter, you could swap any non-distinct hero/heroine from 90% of the Tales and Xenoblades and Final Fantasies and Ateliers from the past 10 years and none of them would seem out of place.

JRPGs have become so stale that outside of Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts, the genre is now selling sub 1mil per game.

Were there anime qualities to the classic JRPGs of the 90s? Sure. Do JRPGs need to completely ditch their anime foundations? God no. But every character doesn't need to be a copy/paste of the 10 JRPG casts in closest proximity.

By all means, give me an Amano-esque art style (I would argue that his style is not so much feminine as much as it is dream-like or "fantasy 😉"-like) at least the cast would look and feel different. And maybe, just maybe, by throwing Nomura out with his excessive usage of belts and zippers, Final Fantasy XVI might inspire the next round of differentiation in a genre that I hold as dear as this one.
Click to expand...

Amano's art is absolutely feminine. He has stated as much in numerous interviews over the decades and is repeatedly stated in his biography. Much of his art is what Final Fantasy is based on, hence the feminine characters. Your "critique" of JRPG characters I would argue is more indicative of western characters. Generic, faceless, and forgettable. At least JRPG characters have heavily unique designs. Noctis looks nothing like Vaan or Tidus, or Zidane, or Squall, etc. Xenoblade characters look alike? Are you insane? How does Rex look *anything* like Shulk? Same goes for Atelier and characters like Ayesha, Shallie, or Ryza?

Also you are factually wrong on the baseless claims of stale gameplay and sales. KH3, Fire Emblem Three Houses, NieR Automata, Dragon Quest 11, Code Vein, Monster Hunter World, Atelier Ryza - all of these are JRPGs and have sold very, very well. That isn't to mention other notable franchise releases in recent years like Pokemon, Ys, Trails, The World Ends With You, Final Fantasy, and others.

Nomura has no reason to be "thrown out". You complain about the lack of unique designs, but want one of the most unique artists in the japanese industry to be removed?
 
Torrent of Pork said:
After experiencing all of it now, I enjoyed the story of FFXV, JUST PUT IT ALL IN THE FUCKING GAME! I made the mistake of playing the game blind without watching Kingsglaive, and it took me almost 3/4 through the game before I even began to understand what the fuck was happening in the world.

Wait, is Lucis the entire continent, or just the city that was sacked? Watch the film.

Why is Noctis the only one who can warp? Magic royal powers, watch the film.

What the hell happened to Gladio and Ignis? Play the DLC outside of the game, too bad about the Prompto DLC you'll never get.

Ardyn is actually a cool villain, but who the hell IS he? Watch the Ardyn anime short, play the Ardyn DLC.

As I said before, the story is quite good if you experience it all in the proper order. Don't just play the game straight through, you won't have any context for what's happening or characters that you're supposed to care for.

Start FFXV, play to the end of chapter 1
Watch Kingsglaive
Play FFXV to the end of chapter 6
Play Episode Gladio
Play FFXV to the end of chapter 9
Play Episode Ignis
Play FFXV to the end of chapter 13 (you can tell where the Prompto dlc was supposed to go)
Watch the Ardyn short, and play Episode Ardyn
Finish FFXV

This is not how you tell a compelling story.
Click to expand...

....Prompto did get a DLC release. What are you talking about?

www.gamespot.com

Final Fantasy 15's Episode Prompto DLC Is Available Now

The second major DLC chapter for Final Fantasy XV revolves around Prompto and features third-person shooting and snowmobile action.
www.gamespot.com www.gamespot.com

It takes literally 2 seconds to look it up.
 
YukiOnna said:
It's not that difficult. Much of the issues extended from development issues which weighed down the quality of other aspects due to the inability to focus on them. Reading Toriyama's FFXIII postmortem back in the day was eye-opening. I'm aware FFVIIR isn't out yet, but that already exudes a lot more confidence than anything Square has attempted to put out for single-player FF in the past 2 generations.

Create a title where the story goes out of its way to be complete even if it's intending a sequel. Depict the lore, terms, pick up on what is foreshadowed, etc.

Another is obviously work with an engine and development tools that work for you, which thankfully they have made these alterations and why FFVIIR and KH3 are working/worked out.

I don't think they have much issue in the battle system department, but just have an ample amount of variety in other places. Personally thought FFXIII sequels were particularly good in this area. It was fun.
Click to expand...
I must be the only one who prefers in-house engines, especially Luminous, for their uniqueness. KH3 and FFVII are rare in that they actually look at least a little different from other UE4 games.
 
Turn based to a back to basics approach for every aspect of the game would do wonders for the series reputation.
 
HaveButOneLife said:
I must be the only one who prefers in-house engines, especially Luminous, for their uniqueness. KH3 and FFVII are rare in that they actually look at least a little different from other UE4 games.
Click to expand...
It's good and I'd like that, but after two engines basically failing (I mean, they dropped any further usage for UE4) it's clear it's just a massive money sink and is a major hindrance to the quality of the game if it doesn't go smoothly.

I am glad SE puts in effort to actually make enough alterations so that it doesn't have similarity to other UE4 games.
 
Honestly if possible I would love to see modern Final Fantasy with turn based combat but chance of that is very slim. At very least we still have DQ, Bravely and Atlus to give me proper turn based RPG.
 
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