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[Dr.Morris79]

But they're eastern europeans, and main writer was sent to a mental institution. Sort of increases their worth as story-tellers.

And that's all it really boils down to. A life lived to a degree gives the best results

How many young people now have even climbed a tree, let alone lived any normal semblance of life people lived in the 70's, 80's 90's? Not many

Especially most rolling out of Uni fresh off of social injustice indoctrination rammed up their arse.

And doesn't it show.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Jesus Christ. Most videogames had TERRIBLE writing back in the 90's and 00's dude...yeah there were exceptions but only during the late PS3 gen did we actually start to see a lot of better written games.

 

[TGO]

You sound like you are in dire need of adblockers and should get off of social media. There`s enough good stuff around.

of course there is "some" good stuff out there
It's just the scale weighs more on the shit these days
I mean if you enjoy the stuff I think is shit that's okay, more for you
I don't need approval or someone to agree with me.
The best you can do is accuse me of being a relic of the past with my views.
but I would take that as an compliment.
And I'm not really big on social media, I use it how it was originally intended now & again, but outside that I don't really pay any attention it.

 

[Majormaxxx]

Jesus Christ. Most videogames had TERRIBLE writing back in the 90's and 00's dude...yeah there were exceptions but only during the late PS3 gen did we actually start to see a lot of better written games.

and now there is a decline towards cringe

 

[bender]

Game writing and acting peaked with House of the Dead 2. It's hard to blame young writers for giving up when that high bar is nigh impossible to clear.

 

[GermanZepp]

Bad and lame writing is mainstream and most people don't care. Is happening in all art forms, and in many human interactions. A decrease in quality.. a disconection from the source, from the search of high aesthetic beatuy

 

[poodaddy]

People who are coming of age right now for a writing career were raised on media of low intellectual value, at least in terms of writing quality. If one person is raised on Kubrick, Coppola, and Scorcese while another is raised on Saturday morning cartoons and anime, which one will have the more interesting writing style? Which one will have a more nuanced understanding of character and emotional content?
We are what we eat right? Well that applies to media too, you are what you consume. I like some anime and I grew up on Saturday morning cartoons too, nothing wrong with it, but it's not going to churn out interesting writers like there were in the 60's through the 90's as our generation just wasn't raised on high quality writing content, and a bachelor's of arts in creative writing from a modern agenda pushing institution that teaches right think/wrong think rather encouraging an understanding of nuanced gray areas when it comes to world view isn't going to encourage a writer to flourish; it arbitrarily pushes their ambition and their growth down by locking their minds inside a very narrow box, and they'll be publicly derided and mocked should they ever decide to take a peek outside the box to gain a more moderated understanding of the world around them in order to propel their writing to the next level and explore the unexplored.

 

[Kadve]

Young writers? You clearly haven't seen this thing then. people have been complaining about videogame writing being better before ever since the 90s (this is from 97).

 

[MagiusNecros]

Good writing requires critical thinking which most modern writers tend to avoid since they aren't capable of it themselves.

 

[danklord]

Which games fit into the young writers territory?

 

[wipeout364]

I suspect it has to do with most games being written by committee instead of a singular vision. In the nineties most plots were devised and written by a very small group and likely did not have the company DEI HR people doing a review.

Nowadays budgets are so high and writers are more of an afterthought in western games. A modular approach is more common with lots of groups writing various parts and I think often lacking a story focused approach.

The current model probably protects a bit from the absolute shit tier stories we used to get but it also poses an obstacle to any high level story telling.

My personal opinion is that this is why storytelling out of Eastern Europe blows the doors off anything produced in “western game development” because they are still focused on delivering a story, not appeasing interest groups or scoring points for their current cause de jour.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

The answer is right in your title. Young. Writers. A good writer is someone who can draw from lots of life experience. A young writer can't have lots of life experience because he's a young writer. The only exception to the rule I can see is if you're really, really, really intelligent and thus being able to somehow offset the disadvantage of age.

 

[Randall365]

They all have adhd because no young person must ever be bored these days.

They probably have their airpods in whilst writing, simultaneously binge watching shit on Netflix and scrolling their phone at the same time.

Compare OG Star Wars with Rise of Skywalker.

A whole trilogy explaining how the Empire came to be.

A throwaway line by a pipsqueak about cloning to explain the more ludicrous concept of Palpatine returning - quick throw in a lesbian kiss and a conversation between women from every race and a stupid arrogant man getting taking down a peg or two - finish with a quip. DONE let’s go Peloton!

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Because they are NOT writers. Please let's stop calling these intruders writers.

They are talentless AI-assisted whacks, nothing more.

 

[kiphalfton]

Because back in the day, most books that everybody was brought up reading were actually good.

The people who wanted to be writers likely took inspiration from influential works, and it influence their work. Because most modern stuff sucks, what you get from new writers is going to suck.

TLDR; Garbage in, garbage out.

 

[StueyDuck]

You would think with how much the younguns scream about how they are oppressed and that everything is terrible and offensive that we'd get some pretty great stories/music.

There's seems to be a generation of replication instead of innovation. Just trying to redo what's been done before and not what's new.

Even in music you'll hear a band today trying really hard to recreate blink-182 sound for example. Like yes, be early 2000s punk rock, but make your own sound, I already had blink and your not gonna top them

 

[Rambone]

They are all employed at Kotaku.

 

[Bombolone]

You have people writing characters who have never had meaningful interactions with humans outside of their personal bubble.. they did not grow up reading the classics they grew up on Harry Potter..
They have no real world experience and don't understand normal, everyday people.

Skimming through thread. A lot of good repies.

This one was where I landed when opening thread.
Writers of a different age had more experience , I’m willing to bet.
Moved out of parents when your 18. Marriage earlier, kids, broken hearts, death, struggles… more actual interactions with the real world.

I have seen it across many professions in my time here. There is a whole swath of people (younger gen) that truly lack the ability of (empathy) and real world experience. Makes for boring writers.
(Of course not all)

I see it in netflix shows, gaming. This very thin, imitative, caricature of the stories and writing that came before it.

In gaming you can see it in the rise of self absorbed YA inserts.
Where no matter the context they speak and move like they are from earth 2024.

 

[Black_Stride]

Its like most stories coming from these young guys dont have that epicness or maturity that older games had , like planescape torment , half life , Kotor

Most games written by young writers either have uninteresting characters or uninteresting events , or in worst case both , the dialog seems so cringe and the story is like watching one of those teen drama series , comparing an old story game with a new story game is like comparing True detective season 1 with Riverdale

Its really annoying , i hope this will be fixed somehow

Baldurs Gate 3, Pentiment, Hades, Disco Elysium, SpiritFarer, Edith Finch, Tsushima(fightme), Spec-Ops The Line(and you didn even play it!!!!), Outer Wilds......

There are still tons of really well written games, you just have to go out and find them.

 

[ByWatterson]

They spent their teenage years being taught the Iliad is bad and sexist and eurocentrist.

That's really the entire thing.

 

[NeverYouMind]

But beyond doubt is that TLOU 1 + in particular 2, brought concepts into video game story telling that weren't present before. That's why TLOU 1 + 2 are still talked about today, and translated so well to non-gaming mediums.

It's common with art that the first attempts are often challenging to people. Which isn't to say TLOU writing is particularly innovative in terms of writing as a whole, just videogame writing - the things it does have been done to death in other mediums. TLOU brought those concepts to videogames and some gamers didn't want to be challenged by the writing decisions - that's art.

That is more clout and mindshare than compelling adaptation and nuance. I have played games decades before that had better story telling. One terrible quality of Naughty Dog's games is the tendency of characters to ramble on about goals, ideals, and hardship. Nobody talks like that. People prefer talking about hobbies, pop culture, and interesting firsthand or secondhand personal stories.

 

[Dr. Claus]

That's how an Artist communicates their intent to the receiver.



You didn't get it - that's fine, much art isn't appreciated at first, if at all.

But beyond doubt is that TLOU 1 + in particular 2, brought concepts into video game story telling that weren't present before. That's why TLOU 1 + 2 are still talked about today, and translated so well to non-gaming mediums.

It's common with art that the first attempts are often challenging to people. Which isn't to say TLOU writing is particularly innovative in terms of writing as a whole, just videogame writing - the things it does have been done to death in other mediums. TLOU brought those concepts to videogames and some gamers didn't want to be challenged by the writing decisions - that's art.

People who think TLoU franchise is well written are the reason why we have shit writing in games.

 

[Arachnid]

I personally think it's more of an unwillingness for bigger companies to take risks (which means it depends on the company). The writers probably have to avoid certain topics, or get policed to include certain topics. That just makes everything come off as generic or filled with corny low risk humor. That mostly applies to bigger companies who likely dictate a lot of game design to successful algorithms. This will only get worse now that AI is being used to supplement. There are exceptions, of course. You do get some companies like From or CDPR who go balls to the wall with wacky high concept ideas.

Basically, there are still well written games out there. You just have to find them. Obviously don't look for that with Ubisoft, Bioware, EA, or Activision/Blizzard.

 

[Hypereides]

Inbreeding.

The entire modern entertainment industry is painfully inbred. The original Star Wars drew inspiration from Flash Gordon serials, Kurasawa films, and sci-fi novels like Dune and John Carter - modern Star Wars draws inspiration from Star Wars. Tony Stark was inspired by Howard Hughes; Captain America started life as wartime propaganda; the Hulk was inspired by a news story. All modern Marvel stories, by contrast, take their inspiration from existing Marvel stories.

So many modern reboots - Indiana Jones, Jurassic Park, Ghostbusters, etc. - feel like inter-generational inbreeding projects that don't further the creative bloodline so much as attempt to clone it. This form of IP-led, commercially-derived Western culture is now the dominant force in mainstream entertainment and we're seeing an emerging generation who've been raised on nothing else. This inbred culture is the only frame of reference they have and the narrower the gene pool gets, the more backward and inbred the storytelling gets.

Happening in everything, not just games, but films, television, books and music too.

Its almost like we are in a timeline where good quality and creativity is discouraged and punished while low quality and frequent output is rewarded. Gotta thank these great short-sighted corporate minded folks for bringing us here. They sure value good creations.

That said, I don't mind a good homage in video game format. We used to have those. We don't anymore now.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Joss Whedon and Ken Levine did some serious damage to the movie and video game industry.

 

[Deerock71]

One doesn't stumble across Shakespeare every day.

 

[Hudo]

 

[Clear]

There's more incentive to conform to the in-group in terms of politics and outlook than to have anything interesting to say.

Which is utter death to art and creativity.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

They’re all woke idiots nobody gives credence too, or he/she themselves got cancelled. You wanted it , you got it lol

 

[elmos-acc]

The job of a game writer is usually pretty ungrateful task, since the idea/pitch is rarely made by the writer. The story has to justify the gameplay and the mechanics, it is usually there only to structure the game but the game isn't the story.

Gaming really isn't writer-friendly medium and it shows, and I doubt many developers even care to give the time or freedom for the writers to actually create something interesting. And of course, interesting writing is often personal and videogames aren't about personal experiences, they're about blank slates.

 

[Shadowstar39]

Easy life, no struggle. Also many zoomers grow up with shit media in their childhood. When I was a kid it was the 80s and we had so many cool cartoons and action movies. Everything was new and hopeful. The last 15 years kids grow up with Ritalin laced disney and nickoldian bs. Couple the woke ideology making people into pusses and you get what you get. Sadly. Writing went to fanfic level after 2018 or so.

 

[ToadMan]

That is more clout and mindshare than compelling adaptation and nuance. I have played games decades before that had better story telling. One terrible quality of Naughty Dog's games is the tendency of characters to ramble on about goals, ideals, and hardship. Nobody talks like that. People prefer talking about hobbies, pop culture, and interesting firsthand or secondhand personal stories.

I understand your comment although I don't agree - especially about the "message" parts...

But you're not really comparing like for like.

For better or worse videogames are popular entertainment today, whereas in the past they were niche. As budgets go up, so does risk to the invested costs.

TLOU is about as AAA as it gets - the risk taken in the writing - especially 2 - is unheard of in AAA level gaming. You'd struggle to see something that bold in equivalent cinema, nevermind gaming.

I'm not surprised some gamers had their world view challenged. That's what made the writing great.

 

[Fbh]

I think writing in the AAA space has the same issues as the games themselves. Companies are increasingly afraid of risk so we get generic stories inspired by what is popular in other forms of media (which has sadly been Marvel for the last 10 years) and designed to be as safe and inoffensive as possible. Then you add the woke element with writers more concerned about doing some social commentary than telling interesting stories, and it's not hard to see why we get so many bland stories.

That said, things were particularly great before either. Games like Planetscape Torment were the exception, not the rule, and there are still exceptions in modern gaming like RDR2, Disco Elysiu, The Witcher 3, etc

 

[Laptop1991]

Because no one seems to care about the writing anymore in all entertainment media, if the young writers are not taught or made to write better, well they arn't going to, they still get paid either way.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Don't worry, from now on, AI will write our stories.

Company cuts costs by replacing 60-strong writing team with AI

A writer using the pseudonym Benjamin Miller told the BBC that his company wanted to use AI to cut costs in early 2023. He led a team...

www.techspot.com

Who is going to teach those AIs the politically correct narratives and stories?

 

[consoul]

I just want to say how much I appreciate the poor punctuation, grammar and formatting of the thread title and original post.

 

[Killer8]

Writers today are too deathly afraid to show people who they find objectionable in too positive a light. There is a quote that goes something like “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”

The best villains in anything are always ones who you can be somewhat sympathetic towards or kind of see their point. Games regarded as well written like New Vegas are filled with characters and groups like this. It's probably also why Disco Elysium was so well received as you can role play in all sorts of political directions, bucking a general trend of games having a very basic binary interpretation of good vs evil.

Gaming has become like those old Westerns where the good guy wore the white hat and the bad guy wore the black one and now desperately needs its Fistful of Dollars moment.

 

[Humdinger]

I think partly it's the result of our own aging and maturation. When we were young, the game stories of old (the ones you mentioned) greatly impressed us. As we get older, we get more experience, and our tastes mature. Even if the average storytelling quality is the same, we will find the games of today worse than we found the games of yesteryear - simply because we have changed. I find the same dynamic in books, too.

I think part of it - at least at the AAA level - is because big budgets force homogenization and "safe" writing, which is boring. DEI influences are part of this but just a part. This happens to any artform when big money and big profit enters the picture. Everything starts getting pitched to the gallery. As Bowie said, never play to the gallery - it's the death of creativity.

 

[Filben]

I wish Cormac McCarthy would have written a video game story. Next to him I'd like to see a story from Donald R. Pollock in a game.

 

[Braag]

Lack of experience both in writing and life.

 

[AJUMP23]

A lack of expectations and editing. Probably timelines too.

 

[Humdinger]

How the hell is Half-Life an example of good writing? Half the "dialogue" in that game is scientists screaming and grunts yelling at you.

Yeah, we probably need to get clear on what we mean by "writing."

Writing involves a lot of different things - plotting, characterization, description, dialog, handling of themes, etc. Half Life had good plotting but was pretty basic in terms of the other factors.

 

[Shadowstar39]

Big AAA budget productions trying to appeal to everyone from toddler to grandparent, and their dogs ofc, usually have bad writing? When has that ever been different?
Games in that budget area have the same issues as the blockbuster movie industry now. You can`t risk anything with such a budget behind you

I'd that was the case why are they shoveling all the woke shit in all the ip. That's alienating a ton of gamers, TV watchers etc.. If they weren't going to offend they are doing it wrong. They are flat out pandering and changing lore for "modern audiences".

 

[NeverYouMind]

TLOU is about as AAA as it gets - the risk taken in the writing - especially 2 - is unheard of in AAA level gaming. You'd struggle to see something that bold in equivalent cinema, nevermind gaming.

I'm not surprised some gamers had their world view challenged. That's what made the writing great.

TLOU2 managed to botch a tried and true revenge plot which goes back to ancient times. Not only could it not commit to a decisive outcome, but it failed to appeal to emotion the key driving force in all these stories and instead tried to heavy handedly appeal to intellect through dubious application of philosophy without any logic. There are cartoons that are more competent in this genre.

 

[Alexios]

The new writers grew up on the trash you think are classics.

 

[Fake]

I guess sites like Tiktok and others social media make them lazy.

 

[Guilty_AI]

TLOU is about as AAA as it gets - the risk taken in the writing - especially 2 - is unheard of in AAA level gaming. You'd struggle to see something that bold in equivalent cinema, nevermind gaming.

Its generic revenge plot 147. And not even a well done one.

 

[Gp1]

For cinema, Variety usually do a top 10 new "screenwriters" to watch every year and oh boy...

If that's the situation for cinema, a centenary industry, imagine for gaming that barely has 30/35 years of games with a "script".

We're going for a wild ride when the current old guard retires.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Its generic revenge plot 147. And not even a well done one.

The writers attempted anti-war messaging in a revenge plot without understanding what makes either work.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The writers attempted anti-war messaging in a revenge plot without understanding what makes either work.

Never mind messaging, the story fails at basic common sense. The structure making up the plot is ridiculous if you stop to think about it for 5 minutes.