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[Papacheeks]

Wonderful 101 is just like almost all Platinum games there. Huge learning curve where u need to learn how to play the game first. Most review who complain on control don't even know u can attack using multiple form till the review finish there.

Sin And Punishment is great game there no bug at all good review too. Only that no one buy the damn game.

Madworld,Zombi U is not even first party or second party here.

They could still have a better relationship with the developer like they did with Platinum, help oversee the game more, and market it as a first party. Kind of like how Sony did for Destiny.

Only difference is Zombie U and Madworld were exclusives only to Nintendo console. And Madworld was made by Platinum you know that right?

And didnt' sell because of how they marketed the system at the time, and put it up against their Super Mario Galaxy game which was GOTY.

Which is the biggest issue I see with Nintendo when it comes to new IP's they create or contract to have on their system.

They don't treat it like they do Super mario Galaxy, Mario Kart or whatever.

Look how Microsoft treated Sunset Overdrive, it's IP is owned by Insomniac not Microsoft, but they are treating it with the same attention they would Halo or Forza.
Marketing the shit out of it and bundling it.

I see Nintendo not doing this with their third party exclusives and partnered games like Bayonetta 2, W101.

If the games don't reach a big enough audience or help grab people to get on their system, then I could see Nintendo's outlook being what's the point?
Which they kind of did during the Wii era.

They need to treat every game third, or first party developed as though it was a system seller. And oversee each one that is an exclusive so that wach one would have that Fisrt Party Nintendo Polish like Zelda, Mario ect.

 

[RM8]

Did I say that they were the only games with polish?

No, to me you implied Mario and Zelda are considerably more polished than other Nintendo IPs. In my opinion, even Kirby or Fire Emblem are more consistently polished than Zelda. And I still don't understand the budget thing - Mario, particularly in 2D (which always outsell 3D Mario - dat mass appeal!) must be incredibly cheap to make.

In the end, who exactly is making huge, timeless franchises like Mario? Hardly anyone short of Minecraft which probably wouldn't count either since it's not a AAA or whatever. Heck, despite the thread title, Splatoon is likely to also not count since it might not be a "mass appeal" game with uber expensive marketing.

 

[AgeEighty]

Welcome to gaming in 2014, enjoy your stay. If Nintendo isn't actively doing the most to appeal to the largest amount of gamers that they can, (through funding new IP that have a wider appeal, supporting these titles with widespread campaigns, etc.) then they deserve what they get.

How do you know they aren't? Higher budgets and flashy ad campaigns don't necessarily translate directly to more eyeballs on a game; you have to target the right people. I can see dudebros being beguiled by flashy minute-long seven figure CoD ads during Sunday Night Football, but I don't see the Activision brand of advertising bombast as something likely to be beneficial to Nintendo's games.

And I still don't see how different companies' ad budgets are relevant to you as an end user. It's not a "welcome to gaming in 2014" thing at all, as many of us play what looks good to us and don't allow our enjoyment or anticipation to be affected by irrelevant concerns like how much money the developer is shilling out to to woo us with marketing. It's a leisure activity, not a dinner date.

I mean, only kids are impressed by things like that.

 

[Sapiens]

Why is everyone filling their shorts up over a game they haven't even played yet?

 

[AgeEighty]

Why is everyone filling their shorts up over a game they haven't even played yet?

For the same reason they get excited for any game that isn't out yet? It looks fun.

 

[Sapiens]

For the same reason they get excited for any game that isn't out yet? It looks fun.

I've dealt with far too much disappointment in my gaming life to get hyped before I play.

 

[Akhe]

Because of Miyamoto insisting on creating more crap like Pikmin.

 

[AgeEighty]

I've dealt with far too much disappointment in my gaming life to get hyped before I play.

I feel like that's less of a concern today than it was in the past. Gaming media is getting away from the "mega-hype in previews followed by tepid reviews" model, and there are demos, expos and lots of other opportunities to either play games before release or read lots of impression from people who have.

I mean, I suppose it makes GAF easy for you to keep up with, since you can just skip to the LTTP threads.

 

[ninjablade]

What audience is splatoon going to sell to? Its Most Likely Going To Bomb Hard imo.

 

[LegendofLex]

Which is the biggest issue I see with Nintendo when it comes to new IP's they create or contract to have on their system.

They don't treat it like they do Super mario Galaxy, Mario Kart or whatever.

Look how Microsoft treated Sunset Overdrive, it's IP is owned by Insomniac not Microsoft, but they are treating it with the same attention they would Halo or Forza.
Marketing the shit out of it and bundling it.

I see Nintendo not doing this with their third party exclusives and partnered games like Bayonetta 2, W101.

Agreed 100%. Just watch their E3 presentations and even Nintendo Directs and you can see how much top billing they give their first-party franchises compared to the third-party/indie/new IP stuff. Most of them feel like they're shoehorned in and not given any special attention.

What audience is splatoon going to sell to?

I think its goal is to create an online shooter that doesn't feel like it's trying to be an eSport.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Because nobody will buy them.

There you go.

 

[Mesoian]

If Splatoon ends up being a hit, I'll drink my own urine.

I mean, a hit is 1 million sold world wide within it's first 3 months.

You really wanna gamble that?

 

[Maintenance]

Dude what

Yes, I think that Miyamoto is a very, very talented director but he keeps championing Pikmin while other projects stay dead. It is similar to keep using Retro to make Donkey Kong games, only in that case Retro made a spectacular game (Tropical Freeze). Both bombed hard, so both studios should try something else.

I liked Splatoon because it is a breath of fresh air, and I also liked the concept. It will bomb, obviously, but I'm pretty sure that I'll play a lot of it.

 

[Ansatz]

You'd be surprised. Enthusiasts are only marginally less prone to judge a game or console based on hype, marketing/presentation and first impressions than more mainstream gamers - if that wasn't the case, the PS4 wouldn't be enjoying the same amount of popularity as it currently does on this board.

Besides, most people like playing games with their friends. I think we've both seen several posters here mention that despite all the tepid impressions, they still decided to buy Destiny because everyone else in their gaming circles were getting it. If Nintendo isn't pushing one of their new IPs enough for the general public to take notice, it'll be harder for us enthusiasts to get our more casual friends interested in giving it a try. Hell, some may even end up passing on a game they were interested in after realizing they'll mostly be playing it alone while their buddies are enjoying some other better marketed game together.

I think making a genuine effort to create positive buzz around a game is just as important at both ends of the consumer spectrum, and it sadly feels like Nintendo hasn't really tried doing that with a new IP aside from the Wii games for a very long time, hence the complaints we often see around here.

I think they don't do it because their games are inherently niche. They could do a better job of converting potential to purchase, but anything else is pointless. Nobody outside of the designated Nintendo guy at reviews sites will care about even Splatoon beyond novelty factor.

Nintendo is trying to establish Splatoon amongst the Kart/Smash/Zelda/Mario tier, it's basically an online shooter for Nintendo fans like how Kart is my main racing franchise and Smash the only fighter I play. This explains the huge push.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

What audience is splatoon going to sell to? Its Most Likely Going To Bomb Hard imo.

Like bayonetta right? I dont know why you love telling people how hard a game is going to bomb. I hardly ever see you talk about the actual game. Do you even play bro?

 

[-MB-]

Like bayonetta right? I dont know why you love telling people how hard a game is going to bomb. I hardly ever see you talk about the actual game. Do you even play bro?

He is too busy to push his obvious agenda to play stuff.

 

[cheesekao]

Nintendo is probably the company who has released more IP's in the last 10 years... sadly, people only buy the main franchises...

just to mention a few:
-Trace Memory
-Drill Dozer
-Geist
-Chibi-Robo
-Hotel Dusk
-Disaster
-Endless Ocean
-Captain Rainbow
-Zengeki something
-Flingsmash
-Steel Diver
-The three "Operation Rainfall" RPG's
-Pushmo
-Dillon
-Wonderful 101

and I'm sure I'm missing a lot.

Sony has just as many if not more and this list doesn't include 2nd party titles.
-LittlebigPlanet
-Uncharted
-Motorstorm
-The Last of Us
-Rain
-Puppeteer
-Tokyo Jungle
-Gravity Rush
-Infamous
-Loco Roco
-Patapon
-Driveclub
-Siren
-Shadow of the Collosus
-Knack
-many more that I forgot

 

[jblank83]

Yes, I think that Miyamoto is a very, very talented director but he keeps championing Pikmin while other projects stay dead.

Pikmin 3? A game released 9 years after Pikmin 2?

 

[Z3M0G]

If it outsells Smash they will

I could totally see this happening. When I buy a WiiU, Splatoon will be one of the games I own. I have ZERO interest in Smash.

 

[TI82]

Why is everyone filling their shorts up over a game they haven't even played yet?

Some people have played it at conventions and others think it looks fun. I don't but I can see how they would make that opinion.

 

[Maintenance]

Pikmin 3? A game released 9 years after Pikmin 2?

I'm talking about the rumors of Pikmin 4, the shorts, and the way that Miyamoto always find a way to talk about this game in the press.

 

[Mesoian]

Sony has just as many if not more and this list doesn't include 2nd party titles.
-LittlebigPlanet
-Uncharted
-Motorstorm
-The Last of Us
-Rain
-Puppeteer
-Tokyo Jungle
-Gravity Rush
-Infamous
-Loco Roco
-Patapon
-Driveclub
-Siren
-Shadow of the Collosus
-Knack
-many more that I forgot

...right.

What's your point?

 

[randomengine]

By that I mean, from everything they've shown so far, this game seems to encapsulate everything that makes Nintendo great --

1) Cool new gameplay
2) Colorful, fun graphical style
3) Charming as hell
4) Introduction of new 'characters'
5) A new IP that's also a system exclusive!

Innovate and create. Isn't that what Nintendo always used to do? Just like they're doing here with Splatoon.

So why is it such a rarity then that we get a game like this from them? Why not more games like this if they are still so capable of doing it? More new IPs? More new characters? More experimentation?

It seems to be going over well so far, right? People seem to be excited from what I can tell.

So can we expect more of this Nintendo...please...?

It is called Wonderful 101. A cautionary tale in the sales department.

 

[TI82]

...right.

What's your point?

Zruben said Nintendo has probably released more new IPS in the last 10 years than any other developer. This guy is saying that no Sony has. That's about it.

 

[Pyrokai]

I'm talking about the rumors of Pikmin 4, the shorts, and the way that Miyamoto always find a way to talk about this game in the press.

I'm okay with this. More people shouldp play Pikmin.

I don't expect a Pikmin 4 though.

 

[cheesekao]

...right.

What's your point?

That Sony doesn't skimp on new IP's too and has just as many if not more new IP's than Nintendo?

 

[SmokedMeat]

Because their fanbase only buys Mario games.

 

[zruben]

Sony has just as many if not more and this list doesn't include 2nd party titles.
-LittlebigPlanet
-Uncharted
-Motorstorm
-The Last of Us
-Rain
-Puppeteer
-Tokyo Jungle
-Gravity Rush
-Infamous
-Loco Roco
-Patapon
-Driveclub
-Siren
-Shadow of the Collosus
-Knack
-many more that I forgot

That's cool, but that wasn't my point

 

[cheesekao]

That's cool, but that wasn't my point

Huh...missed out on that. Sorry I guess.

 

[zruben]

Huh...missed out on that. Sorry I guess.

don't worry about it, both Nintendo and Sony are awesome, let's not engage in silly list wars.

 

[AgeEighty]

That Sony doesn't skimp on new IP's too and has just as many if not more new IP's than Nintendo?

All that does is reinforce the point that Nintendo has lots of original IP, but gets erroneously singled out for not having enough.

 

[thisisvlad]

Nintendo's recent investor Q&A for their FY15 Q2 results clearly shows that senior management is focusing on empowering the younger generation to make key business decisions on hardware and software.

So the answer to the OP is that Nintendo is making more games like Splatoon as they now have the infrastructure to promote this type of game experience; such as the Nintendo Garage.

My assumption is that Nintendo is gearing these projects towards their next-generation hardware as they are at a turning point in the organization both from a branding and capability standpoint.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

I think Splatoon's success will encourage Nintendo's to explore more new IPs.

 

[Mesoian]

That Sony doesn't skimp on new IP's too and has just as many if not more new IP's than Nintendo?

That's not the point. The point is, no one buys new Nintendo IP's, regardless of quality. Hell, the voices in the other splatoon thread who are saying, "yeah, but what if this was a mario game? THEN I'D BE IN" are baffling.

 

[anon_mastermind]

This is the first of a wave of games coming from Miyamoto's understudies at Nintendo. There will be more.

 

[AgeEighty]

That's not the point. The point is, no one buys new Nintendo IP's, regardless of quality. Hell, the voices in the other splatoon thread who are saying, "yeah, but what if this was a mario game? THEN I'D BE IN" are baffling.

Right? It's people like that who reinforce all the Nintendo fan stereotypes.

 

[Azure J]

A Mario budget's, what, $20 million? EAD Tokyo brags about how little they spend on those games.

Nintendo's put more advertising behind Xenoblade X than they do most games.

Didn't the first Galaxy cost something like ~8-12 million to make? (I remember something like that from the Iwata Asks) I thought that was a wildly lean figure the first time I heard it, especially given the game Galaxy went on to become.

I think Splatoon's success will encourage Nintendo's to explore more new IPs.

I honestly think that Splatoon's going to be as much of a runaway success on Wii U as a game can be. It's not going to part oceans in the grand scheme of the gaming industry but it'll be pretty beloved by a good number of people and could become another one of the big guys.

The increased attention and interest in the title just for being so "different" has to have made some folks in Nintendo already plan more "big-ish" console properties that excuse themselves from previous Nintendo property wrappings.

 

[foxuzamaki]

That's not the point. The point is, no one buys new Nintendo IP's, regardless of quality. Hell, the voices in the other splatoon thread who are saying, "yeah, but what if this was a mario game? THEN I'D BE IN" are baffling.

Right? It's people like that who reinforce all the Nintendo fan stereotypes.

I feel like 1 or 2 of those posts might be trolling, I dont know any other nintendo game where a person delibertely says on a forum that "this game shoulda been a mario game" as if to reinforce some narrative that nintendo fans only care about mario and zelda, it was only broguht up because developers said they considered mario at one point during development, not even started working on putting him in, just something that came up during brainstorming and so people just ran with it.

 

[Ironjam]

Even if they make them, noone will buy them. I bet splatoon will bomb as well and wont even sell a million imo.
Funny thing is, if it was the same game but with Mario characters itd sell twice as well easily.

Spoiler

Thank god its not another Mario game.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

I think Nintendo is testing the waters with Splatoon, but I doubt personally that Splatoon will do very well.

Then again Splatoon doesn't look like it's gonna turn out great to me anyway so I may be biased.

 

[Papacheeks]

Agreed 100%. Just watch their E3 presentations and even Nintendo Directs and you can see how much top billing they give their first-party franchises compared to the third-party/indie/new IP stuff. Most of them feel like they're shoehorned in and not given any special attention.



I think its goal is to create an online shooter that doesn't feel like it's trying to be an eSport.

I mean granted Bayonetta 2 has had a pretty good push, but only because it's an already established franchise that is highly praised.

W101 sold like dog shit, and even some of the developer's voiced their opinion on how Nintendo was handling PR for the game.
Which is probably why PR wise Bayonetta 2 has a much bigger push.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Even if they make them, noone will buy them. I bet splatoon will bomb as well and wont even sell a million imo.
Funny thing is, if it was the same game but with Mario characters itd sell twice as well easily.

Spoiler

Thank god its not another Mario game.

What is with you guys and your love of the word bomb/bomba? Thinking that every game needs to sell a million or else it bombed, almost all nintendo games dont even need to sell a million to be considered successful, hyrule warriors has sold 500,000 and its considered not only a success but way past expectations, I doubt nintendo is breaking the bank on splatoon people and I can easily see it selling 500K

 

[captmcblack]

Nintendo is making games like that, just like they always have. The same Nintendo that made all-time favorites like Mario, Metroid, Punch-Out and Donkey Kong also made Uniracers, and Animal Crossing, and Pushmo, and Disaster. They never, ever stopped or slowed down on trying new gameplay ideas and creating new IP, large and small, AAA console or eShop handheld.

What they need to do is make AAA IPs for console (and port down to handheld too) that check off the boxes that third-parties normally help fill on other consoles. I'd love to see Nintendo with an arena FPS that is like Unreal Tournament or TF2 or something. I'd love to see Nintendo return to sports sims like baseball/basketball/soccer/American football. I'd love to see Nintendo make a new racing game (F-1 cars, motorcycles, jet skis, snowboards, speedboats, etc). I'd love to see Nintendo make a character action adventure game; why can't they revive Startropics as some kind of modernized Zelda-alike in a world that looked more like ours (like Uncharted or Indiana Jones or something)?

Nintendo needs to do that, and advertise/push it alongside their main stuff. They need to release these things irrespective of whether or not they'll sell. They need to release them so that there is an environment in their fanbase for these types of games to exist in the first place.

 

[TI82]

What is with you guys and your love of the word bomb/bomba? Thinking that every game needs to sell a million or else it bombed, almost all nintendo games dont even need to sell a million to be considered successful, hyrule warriors has sold 500,000 and its considered not only a success but way past expectations, I doubt nintendo is breaking the bank on splatoon people and I can easily see it selling 500K

I think there's a bit of a price difference between letting Tecmo Koei use one of your franchises and getting paid for it versus starting a whole new IP, in house, with a supposedly rich online multiplayer component.

 

[Mesoian]

What is with you guys and your love of the word bomb/bomba? Thinking that every game needs to sell a million or else it bombed, almost all nintendo games dont even need to sell a million to be considered successful, hyrule warriors has sold 500,000 and its considered not only a success but way past expectations, I doubt nintendo is breaking the bank on splatoon people and I can easily see it selling 500K

While Nintendo certainly has a better understanding of sales and project planning, I bet the only reason why sales expectations for big games is so low is because they understand that the WiiU brand has been completely mismanaged, and I'd bet that sales expectations for something like Majora's Mask 3D is still a million.

 

[Azure J]

Nintendo is making games like that, just like they always have. The same Nintendo that made all-time favorites like Mario, Metroid, Punch-Out and Donkey Kong also made Uniracers, and Animal Crossing, and Pushmo, and Disaster. They never, ever stopped or slowed down on trying new gameplay ideas and creating new IP, large and small, AAA console or eShop handheld.

What they need to do is make AAA IPs for console (and port down to handheld too) that check off the boxes that third-parties normally help fill on other consoles. I'd love to see Nintendo with an arena FPS that is like Unreal Tournament or TF2 or something. I'd love to see Nintendo return to sports sims like baseball/basketball/soccer/American football. I'd love to see Nintendo make a new racing game (F-1 cars, motorcycles, jet skis, snowboards, speedboats, etc). I'd love to see Nintendo make a character action adventure game; why can't they revive Startropics as some kind of modernized Zelda-alike in a world that looked more like ours (like Uncharted or Indiana Jones or something)?

Nintendo needs to do that, and advertise/push it alongside their main stuff. They need to release these things irrespective of whether or not they'll sell. They need to release them so that there is an environment in their fan base for these types of games to exist in the first place.

So basically, Nintendo should have kept Perfect Dark, built up Wave Race/1080 Snowboarding/F-Zero, and gotten a Mysterious Murasame Castle & StarTropics reboot set up.

I totally agree.

 

[Papacheeks]

What is with you guys and your love of the word bomb/bomba? Thinking that every game needs to sell a million or else it bombed, almost all nintendo games dont even need to sell a million to be considered successful, hyrule warriors has sold 500,000 and its considered not only a success but way past expectations, I doubt nintendo is breaking the bank on splatoon people and I can easily see it selling 500K

Selling more and bundling it helps get the install base that much faster. Which is what MARIO Kart helped do, and smash will do. But after the game releases their sales drop like a rock, because games like WOW101, SPLATOON don't move units like Mario based games do.

How many sequels of W101, Zombie U, Sonic:The lost world, Captain Toad do you think we'll get if they sell those kind of numbers or less?

Haven't seen a sequel to Sin and Punishment, or Mad World, or Deadly Creatures, and I bet we won't see a exclusive Lego city on Wii U either, if anything it will be multiplatform like rest of lego games.

 

[zero shift]

I use to think that this was a Nintendo thing, and for quite a few years it was. Even when Nintendo made new IPs they were either insanely low budget (Flingsmash! or Steel Diver), or even if it was a new game it still felt old because it adhered to the rigid style and feel of a Nintendo game (Wii ____), . But in reality this is an industry wide thing. Just look at most of the "new" IPs on the Xbox One and PS4: Driveclub, The Evil Within, The Order 1886, Ryse, Knack, etc. All of these games are more or less retreads of what we had the previous gen and even before that.

Even games that were suppose to be the posterchild of unique gameplay experiences were said to be boring and same. Titanfall was suppose to revolutionize multiplayer FPSs but ended up being a blip on the radar as it was seen as the community as Call of Duty with mechs and now sits at $10 on Amazon less than a year after release. Watchdogs floored everyone when it was revealed at E3 2012. While at first look many would assume because of the graphics, but in reality it was the interesting gameplay and premise, as well as political undertones that sold people on it. Yet when released people were disappointed with it, even boxing it in with Ubisoft's "generic AAA open world game" trope. The reality is that while these games tried to be different they both hit the checklist of what most big game releases are today. Either a dark, gritty, hollywood-like, single player game with an open world map, or a testosterone fueled, 16-26 target market, multiplayer shooter.

This is why Splatoon and Sunset Overdrive get so much praise from the gaming community, while Nintendo can't figure why Nintendoland underperformed and AAA publishers can't understand why people were disappointed with Titanfall. It is because Splatoon and Sunset Overdrive don't present themselves like most games in the market and don't play like nearly anything in the market.

Sadly this used to not be too uncommon. It's the reason why the "gives me Dreamcast vibes" thing is a meme. Because back in the day developers made high profile games that were unique all the time. However in an age when games cost developers tens of millions it is understandable that few people would want to add risk to their investment. It's odd that videogames have been chasing to become like Hollywood for decades, and now that they are close to achieving their goals they seem to be inheriting many of Hollywood's characteristics. Expensive, demographic focused, constant stream of sequels, and lack of uniqueness. This is an industry wide thing and it goes far beyond Nintendo.

 

[cheesekao]

Can someone tell me why new IPs by Nintendo tend to go under the radar? On a surface level, they don't look all too different than what Nintendo normally make and I wonder what drives people to steer clear of them.

 

[Boss Doggie]

People want a new IP worth the polish of a Zelda or Mario, AAA budget, and marketing behind the game to sell it to the masses. I honestly cannot think of the last Nintendo title to strike all three of those boxes. Nintendo fans in this thread can continue to be obtuse though and pretend there is no discussion here.

And yet you forgot the one key thing - said "polish" (this implication that the new IP they make are crap or unpolished is very offensive) came from being IPs that are nurtrured from multiple releases.

Because I'm pretty sure if you put out Mario today, it wouldn't be selling hotcakes and known. Mario is known because it lasted for many years. Why do people always forget this very fact?

Also AAA budget? lol