HA HA HA HAHA W.E.S
LOL could you imagine if the made up rumor became true? The irony
Wii U Speculation thread IV: Photoshop rumors and image memes
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HA HA HA HAHA W.E.S
LOL could you imagine if the made up rumor became true? The irony
The_Endgamer
Member
Give this man a cookie.
It sounds as though it's the second one, mainly because of the lack of independently made engines. From the books/articles i've read (not technical ones mind you) i was under the impression more developers used to put their time towards knowing and creating their own engines rather than learning middle ware. The new in-house engines coming from Square-Enix and Kojima's new one sound like good news but then again they're pretty large studios if only they're able to do it.
Seems like only the big engine guys have the freedom to become acutely familiar with their engines these days. eg. iD, Epic and Crytek...
On topic, if it really is as easy as it's sounding to develop for Wii-U it certain developers have been touting then Nintendo could pick up a bunch of lower to middle teir developers and keep it very profitable for them! Those lower tier games are not something I'm ecstatic about, but surely it should cement Wii-U as a safe system for both smaller and larger projects and for a good variety of games! ;D
Former PC exclusive developers (such as Crytek, Epic, Dice, id) have shown that they are far the best at optimizing for weak hardware.
And there is ZERO basis for thinking Western developers are somehow less competent at optimization.
Japanese developers use just as much middleware as Western ones as well. UE3 gets a lot of use, From Software uses phyre Engine, even gamebryo was used for Catherine. Plus in house 'middleware' like MT Framework.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I was gonna put Reggies face on my monkey body, but after careful consideration I decided not to.
Calling guys with any amount of melanin monkey's has way too many negative connotations.
Stupid racists taking all the fun out of monkey based humor.
Calling guys with any amount of melanin monkey's has way too many negative connotations.
Stupid racists taking all the fun out of monkey based humor.
That was a long time ago.
While it's not true that Japanese devs use just as much middleware to begin with, the developers most competent when it comes to optimization are handheld developers, because they have to work wonders on limited hardware. And there simply aren't all that many talented and ambitious handheld devs in the west, and particular the US (something I'd partially attribute to the fact that there was never a large demo scene in the US).
NinjaTehFish
Banned
aeroslash
Member
yeah...you only have to look at Crysis 2 water tessellation to know they are the kings of optimitzation.
Don't get me wrong, Crysis was a masterpiece in that regard, but i think you've shot too high with that sentence.
I imagine there would be a healthy handheld game scene in the west if they weren't thrown into the browser/iphone/facebook ghetto. That stratifies the money so that any low tier developer stays low tier, as even Rovio doesn't make enough to step up to more complex and enriched game design.
Also if western publishers would stop trying to treat handhelds as a second-bite-at-the-apple port dump, that would be a big help too.
What? All of those devs released new games with new or updated engines last year that use the most advanced tech on consoles.
I'd say say handheld games for the DS and PSP were largely very unoptimised with poor framerates or were 2D games or simple 3D games, but that seems to be changing only now with the new handhelds that have better screen quality and hardware to handle modern tech. And again there's nothing to suggest Western developers are less competent, optimization concepts learned from working on consoles can be applied to handhelds too.
Well, Arkham specifically said that his team wasn't taking the time to optimize their game.Poor Arkham
I'm still pissed that you guys scared him away.
it's probably a mix of everyone misspelling his name all the time and the objectively terrible thread title.
exmachina64
Banned
I'd say yes to your last question. As a general rule, I thought it became easier to program for successive console generations. Surely that's influenced the need for optimization?
"Advanced" and "optimized" are not synonymous at all. I don't think you really understand the meaning of the word "optimization" - it's about getting the most out of limited resources. Getting five times better results out of ten times more powerful hardware is not optimization.
EDIT: To illustrate my point, doing this on a 486SX25 is advanced (and fairly optimized). Doing this on a C64 with 1% the performance on the other hand is the epitome of optimization.
Naked Prime
Member
I'm not saying the don't have the ablity to do so, but in this cycle's climate can they even afford the resources/luxury to do so? Starbreeze's Riddick was far more impressive for what it was and did on the original xbox than Syndicate appears to be (though I haven't played much ouside of the demo). Even SK's Eternal Darkness on N64 outclasses (relative acourse) Too Human or Xmen Legends. What Western developer has done for their in-house only engine to the same level of say Capcom has taken MT Framework acrosss it's multiple projects? Middleware, while a necessity it seems, should be held to a different standard. Though if you look at what Irrational did with the original Bioshock & Infinite or what Retro supposedly did for the Prime series there is a good of advantange to even hitting the metal of even middleware solutions.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I never misspelled his name.
*pouts*
I have more fun misspelling Timedogs name as TimDough.
That they're getting such advanced techniques onto the console at all is a testament to their skill at optimisation. Perhaps Crytek are the odd one out there considering how bad the console framerate can get - CD Projekt is a better example. Witcher 2, BF3, Rage and Gears 3 some of the ebst tech on console with good framerates.
Why specify Western devs? Other devs are in the same climate without the same luxuries. Plenty have taken a dive in regard to their tech output relative to last gen just like Western devs.
EA is doing the same thing with Frostbite 2 that Capcom has done with MT Framework.
How is his name supposed to be spelled? lol
And yes, we need to get a mod to change it to "A New Hope."
Again: "advanced" != "optimized".
My future self came to me in a dream and told me about the madness to come
I didn't believe him at first but now I do. Holy crap at the thread :lol
I understand that perfectly.
Naked Prime
Member
I suppose I tempted to point the finger to western devs, because it seemed that once a lot PC developers jumped on the conole bandwagon, that the vetted interest (for whatever reason) dropped. Capcom has always had great looking games through out the years and so so has Konami. They always seemed to signifigantly push hardware more and more with each title new title. MT Framework continues this and to a degree Frostbite I suppose. Dead Rising to Resident Evil 6 is a pretty nice jump. Bad Company to MOH:Warfighter is a good bump but not as signifigant (on 360 & PS3 that is). Naughty Dog does a damn fine job pushing PS3 as does 343i, but its seemingly only limited to a handful of 1st party devs.
I think its safe to say that the majority of today's developers are kids that grew up writing writing mods for Unreal and Quake in the 90's. Alot of these engines were hogs which chewed up memory fast - especially Unreal. So these guys are used to the easy PC development, with all these libraries & API's already provided for you and they are used to a high level of abstraction from the hardware.
The difference with the old school console coders is that these guys were used to coding in assembly and really pushing the hardware to the metal to extract every single gram of performance out of a machine. These guys could use a single line of code, to do what could take todays kids 10 lines of code to achieve. I remember Nick Jones of Shiny Entertainment saying the Super NES developers manual was basically several pages of poorly photo copied paper bundled together. Badly translated to English from Japanese. So for the most part you were left on you own to figure out the hardware - there was no hand holding. And these guys could push hardware to do stuff it wasn't meant to be doing. Even on Amiga scene they were guys doing stuff you couldn't imagine being pulled off by 16 bit machine with merely 2Mb of memory. Even for day to day computing tasks that machine was fast running native applciations.
A comparison of just about any of the HD console's launch games with some of the more recent powerhouse releases (Crysis 2, Uncharted 3, Gears of War 3, just to name a few) can plainly see that developers continue to squeeze consoles more and more, topping themselves year after year in ways similar to what occurred in the 8 and 16 bit days. Conversely, one need only look at the Wii itself and its recent blockbusters to realize that without increases in hardware capabilities, you can only push games so far. Programming tricks can't make up for outdated hardware, which is the reason even the best looking Wii games are about on par with great original Xbox games. The use of middleware is not evil. In fact, it probably frees up developer resources in ways that contribute to even better games.
In actuality one of the Gamecube's launch games is better technically IMO than all of the Wii library. The quality has in fact regressed. Both Factor 5 titles: Rogue Squadron and Rogue Leader have yet to be topped on the Wii. Factor 5 made their name on the demoscene coding amazing visuals for the Amiga (beyond what you thought the hardware were of capable of). They are true old coders who like to push hardware to the limit. And they are not 'used to' being spoon fed by waiting for libraries & middleware to be made for them. Even on N64 they made their own libraries for audio - to improve the standard sound quality of the N64 which they felt was inadequate.
Factor 5 were true wizards. When developers made a big deal about next gen tech, Factor 5 was like "well, we already did all this stuff five years ago. On Gamecube. In eight months. For a launch title." Factor were doing per pixel effects, unified lighting, huge amounts of geometry and self shadowing long before everyone else in the industry. And the fact they pulled it off in a Gamecube launch title is amazing. They even had that amazing light scattering effect in Rebel Strike which we are only starting to see on current gen games.
There's a new funny and smelling-really-fake rumor spreading on Da French Web about a possible Wii U new name, i won't post the links directly after witnessing while catch-up the last day drama about the same subject, just type wii u then wibes in google, and translate the articles.
It reaallllyyyy smells fake for a lot of reasons, but hey, it could at least spice a bit more the speculation about a possible renaming of the system
It reaallllyyyy smells fake for a lot of reasons, but hey, it could at least spice a bit more the speculation about a possible renaming of the system
There's really 99% of chances that it's fake, they say the name is linked to vibes, so to the haptic technology, and there's definitively no haptic on the DRC in possession of developers at the beginning of april.
It smells the fan fake/mock-up
Edit: and i would say, the man behind this fake has surely seen what happened yesterday here, and he try to do it again with the French gaming community. It's "curious" that this is done one day after what we have seen here
Not even Nintendo could make up a name that stupid, and it's even less likely that a logo would leak. Soooooooooooooooooo fake.
Collecting Smiles's Jens Andersson interview from NintendoGal, in which he talk about the eShop, the Wii U, etc.
It's rather interesting in regard to Nintendo policy with small publishers, app-like content, digital download system eShop/NiN with possible updates, etc. I've put in bold the more relevant part from which we can speculate further about the Wii U Nintendo Network.
It's rather interesting in regard to Nintendo policy with small publishers, app-like content, digital download system eShop/NiN with possible updates, etc. I've put in bold the more relevant part from which we can speculate further about the Wii U Nintendo Network.
The problem with almost all middleware outside of a few tiny libs like fmod is that it's overengineered. The tools do too much, wasting resources on all kinds of stuff even if a game doesn't need it. Also, your examples aren't really all that telling, as those are games designed hand in hand with the engine they run on. Crytek, Epic or Naughty Dog don't use off-the-shelf engines, they design their own engines for their games and vice versa, and have the in-depth knowledge and manpower to optimize the engines not only for a particular platform, but also for a particular game.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Sounds Good!
Dreamwriter
Member
It's because one of the things that makes NeoGAF so much more civilized and high quality than like GameFAQs or IGN boards is the lack of BS. If someone here says they know something, then they are held accountable for it. It's not really about other sites getting the wrong info (although that reflects poorly on NeoGAF), it's more about people here seeing something and assuming it's real, and then bringing it up in other conversations later, never realizing that it was fake. It doesn't take much of that before you just can't trust what people are talking about.
And in this case the poster wasn't even joking, he was purposely trying to mislead people, he came right out and admitted that.
btw, sorry for the offtopic, but all these conversations about indie titles, clearly the hot trend since a moment now, make me curious & interested in being involved in these.
If there are informed people about this and know the good places to go for info & recruitment & gathering of guys for projects (i'm already aware of some like indiegames/indie royale, some boards, etc), just PM me please I want to be a part of the next eShop big hit
/end of offtopic, here, take a croissant au beurre pour m'excuser.
If there are informed people about this and know the good places to go for info & recruitment & gathering of guys for projects (i'm already aware of some like indiegames/indie royale, some boards, etc), just PM me please
I want to be a part of the next eShop big hit /end of offtopic, here, take a croissant au beurre pour m'excuser.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Mer il es fou!
I wonder if Nintendo is aware of CD Projeck RED's existence. Having them onboard to develop a Wii U version of The Witcher 3, They, or whatever they're working on may be a good way to show just far ahead the Wii U is over the 7th gen. (Assuming it's not weaker hur hur hur)
lol I feel bad
wow, you know this meme ?
I know I spend too much time on the internet, you don't have to remind me...
Jerk!
But yes, I do. I'm French Canadian, so it only makes sense that I know the only french meme out there. That and ENKULER DE RIRE.
I know I spend too much time on the internet, you don't have to remind me...
Jerk!
But yes, I do. I'm French Canadian, so it only makes sense that I know the only french meme out there.
Tabarnak ! BY2K is from Quebec ? Groundbreaking Nintendo Community News !
Sis Focaccia
Member
So the U.S. Patent cites Wii U as "Universal Remote Controller"
Could this mean total control over the TV?
(Is such a thing even... possible?)
It would certainly make sense with the huge ram for OS... if you can preview a couple of channels on the pad while the tv is running, I think that's a big selling point. (plus, messing with your roommate's tv time)
Oh lawd, I just got an idea!
Imagine a crazy gameshow running on the TV while you're holding the Upad, communicating with your team members and answering questions/playing games. As you get better, you can end up live at the show, and win stuff! Live from your living room.
There Nintendo, license my idea and rake in the cashews. Run with it!!
Could this mean total control over the TV?
(Is such a thing even... possible?)
It would certainly make sense with the huge ram for OS... if you can preview a couple of channels on the pad while the tv is running, I think that's a big selling point. (plus, messing with your roommate's tv time)
Oh lawd, I just got an idea!
Imagine a crazy gameshow running on the TV while you're holding the Upad, communicating with your team members and answering questions/playing games. As you get better, you can end up live at the show, and win stuff! Live from your living room.
There Nintendo, license my idea and rake in the cashews. Run with it!!
The Wibes logo is fucking terrible; we are in 2012, we have dozens of good and easy-to-use programs and this is what the guy comes up with.
I swear there are several people here that could do better with almost no effort :lol
And IdeaMan I want to play the beta of your game!
I could do better than that in paint!
No, I can't.
If that Patent is true.... good god!
But why didn't they do this with the Wii Remote? That would have been great as well (Don't even know if its possible though).
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