TWS doesn't know what it is....?
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Wkd Box Office 0627-2914 - Jurassic bots park at the top of the heap
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TWS doesn't know what it is....?
Last Hearth
Member
You know that most of the Chinese who go to the theaters for movies like TF4 barely even understand English, and the haphazardly translated subtitles don't help much either.
None of those people show up for the story, or the characterization, or anything remotely thought provoking, because they wouldn't understand it anyway. And if there is something completely nonsensical in the plot they just write it off as something lost in the translation. They just show up for the fireworks and the spectacle, all they need to understand is the rudimentary good guy A fighting bad guy B.
With the success of movies like TF4 in China get ready for more brain dead entertainment from Hollywood.
None of those people show up for the story, or the characterization, or anything remotely thought provoking, because they wouldn't understand it anyway. And if there is something completely nonsensical in the plot they just write it off as something lost in the translation. They just show up for the fireworks and the spectacle, all they need to understand is the rudimentary good guy A fighting bad guy B.
With the success of movies like TF4 in China get ready for more brain dead entertainment from Hollywood.
soulassssns
Banned
Rotten Tomatoes is a crap site.
soulassssns
Banned
More? There has been alot of brain dead entertainment long before TF4 and it is not because of China either.
To be fair though nobody should be going to see a movie such as TF for the story.
How about you blame everybody around the world who have the same tastes as China instead of singling China out for making crap films successful?
Last Hearth
Member
It's not about blame, it's about understanding what is going on and where the industry is headed. The problem is by no means isolated to China, but China is a good case study of this phenomenon.
As movies are being made more and more for the international market instead of the US market, as movies are increasingly deriving their revenue from markets that don't speak English, things that TF4 gets flack for (such lack of coherent plot, lack of layered characterization, lack of interesting dialogue, lack of thought provoking ideas) are becoming increasing irrelevant to the intended audience of these movies, and therefore the studios are investing less and less into those aspects of the movie in favor of more explosions and spectacles.
The recent rapid rise of China as a market has only accelerated this phenomenon and will likely continue to do so.
Suggesting that English speaking audiences somehow care more about coherent plot, layered characterization, interesting dialogue, and thought provoking ideas is a pretty insulting and xenophobic viewpoint. It's an extreme knee-jerk reaction and one which makes no sense at all, especially when we're talking about a film series which exists in the first place because it made a ton of money domestically.
The most successful film in the series domestically is also the one which had the least logical script due to a writer's strike back in the US. A strike that didn't really faze the industry as much as it should have, allowing films to continue production and pre-production without writers for a period of time.
So no, let's not throw the "Chinese audiences who watch English movies don't understand what is going on and the subtitles are awful, so there will be even dumber movies from now on since movies are successful in China" angle. No matter how well reasoned you think it is, it's a stupid generalization and comes off as racist and xenophobic. It is also a poor representation of the truth.
Frozen has topped 200 million in Japan now. Japan is a smaller market than China. Japanese audiences are no better at English comprehension than Chinese. What does that mean? It means Frozen is popular in Japan, just like it is popular in the US. Transformers is popular in China just like it is in the US. That's all.
The most successful film in the series domestically is also the one which had the least logical script due to a writer's strike back in the US. A strike that didn't really faze the industry as much as it should have, allowing films to continue production and pre-production without writers for a period of time.
So no, let's not throw the "Chinese audiences who watch English movies don't understand what is going on and the subtitles are awful, so there will be even dumber movies from now on since movies are successful in China" angle. No matter how well reasoned you think it is, it's a stupid generalization and comes off as racist and xenophobic. It is also a poor representation of the truth.
Frozen has topped 200 million in Japan now. Japan is a smaller market than China. Japanese audiences are no better at English comprehension than Chinese. What does that mean? It means Frozen is popular in Japan, just like it is popular in the US. Transformers is popular in China just like it is in the US. That's all.
But it'll still be 4 days vs 3 days right? I think it opened on Thursday in China.
China is def beating dom ow then when actuals come out today.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
So how much do the studios 'take home' from profit in China?
ViewtifulJC
Banned
We all share the blame about the transformers success unfortunately.
I don't think translations are that bad these days now that they are actual revenue streams for Hollywood, compared to fan translations of pirated goods in the past. I've watched shows like Breaking Bad, House of Cards, and The Americans with their official Chinese subtitles, and they seem pretty good--I actually use them to learn new Chinese vocabulary sometimes.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
I know it's garbage and I know there's sine questionable minority' characterization... But I'll probably still see it.
No, it opened on a Friday. $99.2M is for the 3-day opening. It opened early in South Korea. Maybe you are thinking of that?
Midnight/preview showings are not as big in China. Domestic total is slightly ahead due to that $41M Friday/thurs previews.
Hmmmm. Okay. I wasn't sure. Movies open on Thursday in a lot of Asian countries, including here. I guess China follows the US format.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
I had sand in my eye.Looks like Maleficent has now passed both Godzilla and Amazing Spiderman 2. I think I hear someone crying...
Or maybe there are just a lot of people who like movies that you don't like.
You're going through a lot of mental gymnastics trying to call everybody who watches these movies stupid. Chinese audiences like the movie for the same reason American audiences do - they want to see things get blown the hell up.
Also "they wouldn't understand it anyway" is condescending as fuck.
China doesn't really have a logical system for movie openings. They have had movies open on every day, including Saturday and Sunday.
lol @ Paramount not giving any fucks about fudging their numbers:
http://m.deadline.com/2014/06/trans...pening/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
http://m.deadline.com/2014/06/trans...pening/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
^ The actual numbers from Rentrak will be up on BOM in a couple hours at worst.
Edit: Also, this year only, we already had Sony inflating 22JS to $60m and Disney, Maleficent to $70m. So that's at least 3 studios that use the same marketing tactic (odds are all do it).
Well, on a country by country basis, China is the winner, surely (unless Canadian box office is the thousands of dollars?)
Maybe we should compare China + Hong Kong to US + Canada? That's $104m vs. $100m. =P
Edit: Also, this year only, we already had Sony inflating 22JS to $60m and Disney, Maleficent to $70m. So that's at least 3 studios that use the same marketing tactic (odds are all do it).
Well, on a country by country basis, China is the winner, surely (unless Canadian box office is the thousands of dollars?)
Maybe we should compare China + Hong Kong to US + Canada? That's $104m vs. $100m. =P
Ah, I see. That's kinda weird, but I guess for a huge emerging market there might not be surprising. Especially considering the restrictions they have on foreign entertainment.
I'm a fan of brain dead entertainment but I agree that worldwide audiences have been saving or cushioning would-be flops when it comes to action blockbusters like Battleship, White House Down, Pacific Rim, etc. However Transformers has worldwide appeal and it's a premier franchise. Plus I'd argue that the action genre, and the movie medium in general, is pretty thin when it comes to characterization for what it's worth.
Also I'd argue films are about the spectacle and always have been:
googleplex
Member
Looks like Maleficent has now passed both Godzilla and Amazing Spiderman 2. I think I hear someone crying...
I enjoyed all three of those movies.
Also, The Amazing Spiderman was great fuck the haters.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Matt_
World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
A bunch of studios inflate estimates to get better headlines. It's not new and it's not some immoral practice.
It's not like these numbers go onto their financial statements or anything. It's laughable that other execs call them out on the practice too
It's not like these numbers go onto their financial statements or anything. It's laughable that other execs call them out on the practice too
It's not an estimate anymore, it's an actual...and $100.038m, come on lol
eddfromtheriver
Banned
As did i, and actually ended up liking Godzilla the least out of them 3. And yes Amazing Spidey 2 was awesome.
This has happened before with transformers. I believe it was the 5 day for Revenge of the Fallen that was bumped past 200m to tie The Dark Knights record. They might have even claimed a win over tdk in those 5 days. I am on my phone or I would check.
Edit. Before they magically got there, I believe estimates were pointing to $198m.
Edit. Before they magically got there, I believe estimates were pointing to $198m.
So is Rentrak lying now too? They have TF4 at 100 million also.
http://www.rentrak.com/section/movies_and_tv_everywhere/top_entertainment_rankings.html
MrPink93485
Member
All those numbers are studio provided estimates.
I thought Rentrak did there own.
I think the second movie's success in spite of its illogical plot is more indicative of how American audiences had goodwill from the first movie; the fact that the series dropped off domestically with the third movie was a sign of the second movie's erosion of that goodwill.
Your point still stands though.
Black-Wind
Member
... The fuck do you people mean by this?
Wut places are you going to where people comment loudly about their feelings on every movie trailer? The most I would do is an audible "Meh" on a shit trailer to get a lil rise out of my friends. Never have I remembered a "reaction" to a movie trailer.
Most people have seen these trailers already I assume. Only time I remember hearing anyone say anything in the last movie I saw (Shitformers 4: Age of Shit) was them asking if this TMNshit trailer was the newest one.
MrPink93485
Member
From what I understand, Rentrak provides the raw data from which the studios then use to report their actuals, but these numbers here on the Rentrak website align perfectly with the estimates released yesterday. Rentrak may have their own internal stuff, but they may not be allowed to actually release those figures to the public
So the Monday estimate for Transformers in China was $17M, pushing the film past X-Men and Captain America to take the number one spot of the year for a Hollywood film in that territory. That number pretty much guarantees that China is ahead of the domestic box office after 4 days as well.
Seems likely that the film will be well over $200M in China by the end of next weekend. It is also starting to look more plausible that Transformers will make more in China than it will domestically.
Seems likely that the film will be well over $200M in China by the end of next weekend. It is also starting to look more plausible that Transformers will make more in China than it will domestically.
What strange times we live in. Pacific Rim 2 will take place in China confirmed.
As of Wednesday's estimate (remember the timezone difference), Transformers 4 is past $150M in China. It should pass Dark of the Moon's total in that territory tomorrow or on Friday.
Domestic total as of Tuesday was ~$120M.
Domestic + China alone should be sitting at $300M+ before the weekend, and over $400M as of Sunday.
Total in those two territories should end up in the $550M range (given $275M finishes in both territories, it could be higher), so the rest of the world will have to make $350M going forward ($450M - the $100M last weekend from non-China sources) for the film to clear $1B.
Domestic total as of Tuesday was ~$120M.
Domestic + China alone should be sitting at $300M+ before the weekend, and over $400M as of Sunday.
Total in those two territories should end up in the $550M range (given $275M finishes in both territories, it could be higher), so the rest of the world will have to make $350M going forward ($450M - the $100M last weekend from non-China sources) for the film to clear $1B.
Oddly enough, the TMNT fans are scared that GotG will overshadow it, & and a good number analysts are predicting that GotG will be the only movie in August that will break the Top 10 (some also say that both TMNT & GotG will get in the Top 10). If you ask me, to guarantee victory for GotG, the following must happen.
- GotG gets ridiculously good word-of-mouth
- TMNT ends up sucking big-time
- Pretty damn good box office returns on GotG's part
GotG already has the Marvel brand, the MCU connection, & marketing down.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
The Chinese Box Office cometh
I've been saying this for years, but just fucking wait to see how big Avatar 2 is gonna be in China. Shit is gonna be a monster there.
I've been saying this for years, but just fucking wait to see how big Avatar 2 is gonna be in China. Shit is gonna be a monster there.
Woah that is crazy. You've compelled me to join you in your wait.
AdmiralSnackbar
Member
Will Cameron pander to the Chinese audience? I think setting the second half of Transformers in China was a pretty deliberate move.
I think any blockbuster action movie that gets the chance will filming in China.
He doesn't need to pander specifically to them. He will certainly make sure the story he crafts for the sequels is as universally relateable as the first movie though.
I still remember the stories coming out when Avatar was released about how in some screenings in China audiences would come out of the movie crying due to how their homelands were being bulldozed down in proximity to them and the movie reminded them of that. Movie broke records there without having to pander to Chinese milk and hotels.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I don't think audiences in general like being artificially pandered to. It comes off as patronizing, like we've seen with the China cut of Iron Man 3. I feel that it works in Transformers because it is a natural extension of how Bay makes films. TF4 isn't really any different from TF1-3 in terms of how it handles placement and locations. Bay always "panders" in the sense that whatever he shoots, he makes it look great, like a commercial. He also uses stupid placements all over his movies. In the end, what's important is that the movie is authentic. TF4 might have had a lot of China coproduction elements, but it's still 100% a Michael Bay movie.
What I think is more important to consider though, is that coproduction aspect. Having a Chinese partner in China makes it easier to get wide distribution and timely release for your film in what is essentially a semi-closed market. Getting Chinese companies as part of the production also allows a stronger push in the region in terms of marketing and awareness. These things are important to the success of a big film, regardless of actual content.
What I think is more important to consider though, is that coproduction aspect. Having a Chinese partner in China makes it easier to get wide distribution and timely release for your film in what is essentially a semi-closed market. Getting Chinese companies as part of the production also allows a stronger push in the region in terms of marketing and awareness. These things are important to the success of a big film, regardless of actual content.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
that is the entire purpose of the vast majority of Michael Bay's filmography, including the Transformers sequels
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