ScaryShark
Banned
That's what NXT is for.
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WWE Raw drops to lowest TV rating in 18 years
- Thread starter RBH
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BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Thanks guys. Shit weather this weekend so I'm gonna have lots of time to watch some of the old stuff.
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
I am also convinced that unless you had an interest in wrestling growing up, there is no reason why you would start watching on your own volition later in life.
Jimmy King
Member
Aside from perhaps some sort of severe head trauma that happened later in life, I agree.
1997-era WWF is my favorite era. start at the Royal Rumble. The attitude pre-Attitude era. Bret hated Shawn, who hated Bret, who also hated Austin, who hated Shawn, who hated the Undertaker, who hated Bret, who hated Shawn, who hated Sid, who hated Bret, who hated Undertaker, who hated...
shit just goes on forever. it was that cracking experimental era between kayfabe wrasslin WWF and Attitude era WWF
QueenOfThorns
Member
This exchange here. I've never seen a fandom of anything hate themselves and the show they're watching half as much as wrestling fans do. (shout out to wrasslegaf!)
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
Late 80s early 90s was my jam with wrasslin, really loved when they would ring the bell and all the guys would come out and piledrive each other. Stopped watching when drama was added.
PhantomZone
Member
They are in deep trouble
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
How many times can people watch the same fake wrestling before it all gets old?
funkystudent
Member
There is no one easy fix for RAW. They will probably shift titles around and rejigger some things and pull some old guys out of mothballs but it isn't enough.
The show is just bad and has been for years. People have been slowly running off slowly for a decade and its finally hit a all time low.
The show is just bad and has been for years. People have been slowly running off slowly for a decade and its finally hit a all time low.
QueenOfThorns
Member
I've never watched a wrestling show from any era that didn't have drama. That's kind of wrestling's thing. What show did you watch? WCW?
hydragonwarrior
Member
3 words:
Sting vs Undertaker.
Sting vs Undertaker.
Smarks want more wrestling, less talking. There's more longer wrestling matches than ever on Monday Night Raw... and ratings still fall.
Smarks want higher quality wrestling. There's higher quality matches for free every week on Raw than there ever were in the past... and ratings still fall.
Smarks want new faces getting time to wrestle and have quality matches. New faces (i.e. past few years) have dominated Raw... and ratings still fall.
What the fans really want is the edgy, trashy content and the violence and the stars of the Attitude Era to return. The fans don't want what they say they want, because if they did, they'd be watching instead of still complaining that what they want isn't happening when what they say they want is, in fact, happening.
Smarks want higher quality wrestling. There's higher quality matches for free every week on Raw than there ever were in the past... and ratings still fall.
Smarks want new faces getting time to wrestle and have quality matches. New faces (i.e. past few years) have dominated Raw... and ratings still fall.
What the fans really want is the edgy, trashy content and the violence and the stars of the Attitude Era to return. The fans don't want what they say they want, because if they did, they'd be watching instead of still complaining that what they want isn't happening when what they say they want is, in fact, happening.
Fox Mulder
Member
I stopped watching after the shit awful wcw invasion, and every time I popped back in it sucked.
I wonder what the ratings would be if the adults that hate it but watch anyways just let it go.
I wonder what the ratings would be if the adults that hate it but watch anyways just let it go.
BoboBrazil
Member
Horrible storylines
Horrible commentary
Inconsequential storylines
Even steven booking
Cena wins lol
Kane and Big Show
Trying a divas revolution, but never letting the actual women's wrestlers wrestle each other and instead forcing them against the divas in every match like Bellas, Alicia Fox, and Naomi.
Did I mention horrible storylines?
Horrible commentary
Inconsequential storylines
Even steven booking
Cena wins lol
Kane and Big Show
Trying a divas revolution, but never letting the actual women's wrestlers wrestle each other and instead forcing them against the divas in every match like Bellas, Alicia Fox, and Naomi.
Did I mention horrible storylines?
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Could the ratings drop just be incidental?
I think lots of wrestling fans are young adults who are dropping cable subscriptions at a crazy rate.
I think lots of wrestling fans are young adults who are dropping cable subscriptions at a crazy rate.
aren't football ratings the highest they've ever been?
i'm pretty sure wwe is just the drizzling shits and people aren't wasting 3 hours on a monday night to watch it
Sibersk Esto
Banned
I advocated for Heyman booking smackdown type booking. What does this mean to me?
- Logical, straightforward storylines. Cause and effect. Tournaments for your titles (all of them). Remember the golden rule: KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)
- Shorten your promo time, emphasize telling stories in the ring. NEVER EVER EVVVVVVVERRRRRRRR but together a match that you are planning on putting on a PPV.
- For god's sake, give everyone something to do. If you have a guy on a roster who is on a steady paycheck, for fuck's sake use him. A good booker should be able to make money with Zack Ryder even if you change nothing about his character. Bring back a cruiserweight division if you have to.
- Give your commentators a long leash. Give them some bullet points, remind them of something if they don't mention it, but let them do their thing. Ruthless Aggression Tazz + Cole > Evolution era Lawler and Ross.
- If you want someone to appear like a threat, BOOK THEM LIKE A GODDAMN THREAT. Heyman was able to make fucking Big Show tolerable, because he booked him consistently, and didn't make his flip between heel and face or do stupid comedy shit.
- ACCENTUATE THE POSITIVE, HIDE THE NEGATIVES. Not everyone needs to cut a promo. Put them in programs tht play to their strengths, and watch them get over.
- Book your veterans well, so that it looks good when they put over the new blood.
- Have big money matches that people want to see. Maybe the Smackdown six will never be duplicated but for fuck's sake have some build.
- Get behind a guy. Put your eggs in one basket. Do whatever you can to make a guy the top guy and stick with it.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
WWF and maybe WCW I was probably too young to see the background stories and focused on the bodyslams then.
Strife In a Teacup
Member
CartridgeBlower
Member
I can't believe Big Show is in the main event at the next PPV, right?
He must have some salacious blackmail photos on Vince or Stephanie.
He must have some salacious blackmail photos on Vince or Stephanie.
Violence Jack
Member
The products just ugly. Really really ugly. The 80s were ridiculous, beautiful fun with hugely cartoonish costumes and characters clashing. Like a comic book come to life, and place to go for the most scenery chewing over the top performances.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77aLI1FOdXw
Continuing into the early 90s, things began to sag but it was still decently cartoonish entertainment, just the quality had dropped from Hogan, Andre, Macho Man to lesser stars and an aging sense of fun. Attitude flipped a lot of expectations on its head, an influx of new stars came along, and writing picked up. They could play directly against expectations and run with it. ECW type of stuff and Stone Cold's appearance really sold its visual style.
Now its just really bad writing, bad characters, terrible visual style. The product looks cheaper. The personalities do not grab you in short commercial length bits like they need to. They've added an additional hour and confused their product for being more compelling than it was. Soul sucking is the right way to describe it. Wrestlings doomed unless there's a flush of the current talent mostly, and a reordering of the product. There needs to be a vision for the product or it's not going to sell.
I think if you don't see this, you're too close to the scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77aLI1FOdXw
Continuing into the early 90s, things began to sag but it was still decently cartoonish entertainment, just the quality had dropped from Hogan, Andre, Macho Man to lesser stars and an aging sense of fun. Attitude flipped a lot of expectations on its head, an influx of new stars came along, and writing picked up. They could play directly against expectations and run with it. ECW type of stuff and Stone Cold's appearance really sold its visual style.
Now its just really bad writing, bad characters, terrible visual style. The product looks cheaper. The personalities do not grab you in short commercial length bits like they need to. They've added an additional hour and confused their product for being more compelling than it was. Soul sucking is the right way to describe it. Wrestlings doomed unless there's a flush of the current talent mostly, and a reordering of the product. There needs to be a vision for the product or it's not going to sell.
I think if you don't see this, you're too close to the scene.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Yea but the NFL is on network TV that you can get free with an antennae and also I would guess NFL audience skews older than wrestling on average.
The Bookerman
Member
I think they need Paul E.
But that ship has sailed. Vince and Stephanie would clash too much with him again on the creative end.
But that ship has sailed. Vince and Stephanie would clash too much with him again on the creative end.
Yeah, no.
Two old fucks blown up before they get in the ring.
Sting throwing weak assed clotheslines and the most pathetic excuse for a Scorpion Deathlock because he does not have the muscles to lean back on it without getting cramped up.
Taker is Taker, but he is in worse shape every time you see him and I do not expect him to be doing much after HIAC with Brock taking the bumps he will be taking.
Vince and Dunn are toxic.
NXT shows that Hunter can do it, but Vince and Dunn will never let go.
They do not need Paul E, he is a great manager and he is a shit businessman.
The New Day. All doom and gloom aside, those three are really, really fun dudes.
Nah. It has nothing to do with "TV is dying". WWE was super hot right after WM30, and they fucking threw it all away with shit output since then.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
They will get 100k people in Dallas for WM either by heavily papering the show or just lying and we will see articles around WM time about how wrestling is back just like every WM season.
If today was the 90s Vince would turn Cena heel and have him do more than just sell shirts. Guys like Rollins, Ambrose and Wyatt would actually have crazy controversial storylines. There would be match variety. There would be more engrossing segments because of little things like mild nudity or profanity. They have so much crazy talent but can't anything because they are held back by the rules.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Step 1: Get rid of Big Show
Step 2: Etc...
Step 2: Etc...
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
The problem with the WWE is that they haven't changed their show since the attitude era. The content has gotten more family friendly but the way the show is actually produced is almost the same. It's ridiculously stale. If you compared a wrestling show from 1998 to one from 1988 or one from 88 to 78 they will all be pretty different. But 98 and 2015 are the same. Shit, so many things they do are holdovers from when they were competing against WCW like:
-2 (now 3) hour weekly live show (done because WCW did it first)
- A second weekly live show (done because WCW did it first)
- 12 PPVs a year (done because WCW did it first)
etc. They need to shake things up radically.
-2 (now 3) hour weekly live show (done because WCW did it first)
- A second weekly live show (done because WCW did it first)
- 12 PPVs a year (done because WCW did it first)
etc. They need to shake things up radically.
Fans wants storylines and compelling feuds.
In case you don't know what I mean
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvy9n7_wwf-summerslam-1997-intro_sport Summerslam 1997
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2neyo_austin-video-shown-at-badd-blood-97_sport McMahon doesn't allow Austin to wrestle so Austin responds with the first stunner to McMahon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_eJD75STuY Undertaker vs Kane
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2n69b_rock-mankind-story-part-1_sport Stories leading up to Survivor Series 1998
It has nothing to do with being PG because everything here could be done with PG.
what the hell did they put in Darren Young's Kool-Aid?
Strangelove77
Member
I just watch Raw clips on YouTube and even those are too long.
It's a real shame the writing is so terrible when the wrestlers are so good. Theyre wasting fantastic wrestlers like Rollins, Ambrose and the New Day on the shit they make them say and do when they should by all accounts be future legends.
Shame.
It's a real shame the writing is so terrible when the wrestlers are so good. Theyre wasting fantastic wrestlers like Rollins, Ambrose and the New Day on the shit they make them say and do when they should by all accounts be future legends.
Shame.
They don't completely have to get rid of Show, but he needs to be moved into the Iron Mike Sharp role.
He needs to be a jobber that puts people over.
Someone getting a wild hair up their ass and all of the sudden Big Show has knocked out Cesaro like five times, Mark Henry, and a number of others when it is just going to go nowhere is just stupid.
It hurts the younger talent, and does nothing for him.
Other relics need to be put in the same position. No back and forth wins and losses no, they need to be jobbing and putting people over consistently.
But again, Vince and Dunn
Nobody wants to watch the current shit in 2015.
The games on ESPN are doing extremely well. The viewership is probably the same, males in the 18-34 demo the highest of each show or something in that region.
Problem is craptacular booking, writing, commentary, the inability to hide weaknesses so your performers come off as phony or flat out bad, a show an hour too long, etc.
Exactly. Fuck professional wrestling as a whole...
With the exception of Lucha Underground
BoboBrazil
Member
Yep, I want racy adult storylines, blood, cussing, and violence. This stuff now is horrible.
Sparkedglory
Member
Daniel Bryan time! Or since it's WWE they're more likely to bring in legends and still refuse to build up the younger guys.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
What fans want are compelling stories and characters. We get like two of those a year, and they generally get viewers. There was a killer segment with the entire locker room tearing apart Brock Lesnar and the Undertaker a few months ago, and it killed in the ratings iirc.
The people in charge of the Raw booking simply have no idea how to make new stars in 2015, and NXT, while a huge success, will only appeal to a small demographic of wrestling fans and will do little for the Corpus Christie-type fans. The general principles that make NXT enjoyable would work on Raw (i.e. clear and simple storylines that carry over logically from week to week, shorter TV matches that save the big stuff for PPVs, subverting wrestling cliches), but it's unclear if the higher quality would actually get anybody interested.
Edit: What really needs to happen are some drastic changes to the format. The episode where they were snowed out, and the whole show was segments and interviews and recaps, did quite well. Wrestling fans WANT to watch wrestling, but you need to give them a reason to watch from week to week, which they don't have if the whole show is so fucking samey every time.
The people in charge of the Raw booking simply have no idea how to make new stars in 2015, and NXT, while a huge success, will only appeal to a small demographic of wrestling fans and will do little for the Corpus Christie-type fans. The general principles that make NXT enjoyable would work on Raw (i.e. clear and simple storylines that carry over logically from week to week, shorter TV matches that save the big stuff for PPVs, subverting wrestling cliches), but it's unclear if the higher quality would actually get anybody interested.
Edit: What really needs to happen are some drastic changes to the format. The episode where they were snowed out, and the whole show was segments and interviews and recaps, did quite well. Wrestling fans WANT to watch wrestling, but you need to give them a reason to watch from week to week, which they don't have if the whole show is so fucking samey every time.
I think about this a lot... whether or not that stuff stands the test of time.
back in 98, sable teasing her tits on TV was a pretty novel concept, especially if you were a kid. not many had the internet, and there was no way to get your hands on a playboy, let alone a porn video.
today, anyone can google tits. most kids have a fucking supercomputer in their pocket and full length hd porn videos are a few taps away. does a female wrestler in lingerie teasing nudity work in 2015? I don't think it does, at least not as much as it did in the late 90s.
profanity can bring intensity to a promo, but again, it's not as shocking as it was back in the day. hearing profanity bleeped out on tv back in the late 90s was exciting! it's why springer was popular, and the attitude era took advantage of that. they were breaking rules! today, thanks to youtube, any kid can watch the angry video game nerd talking about fucking diarrhea shit. isn't pewdiepie the most subscribed youtuber? dude cusses all the time.
in the late 90s, the audience wanted a certain product. WWF supplied that (as did WCW), and it was rewarded with big time ratings. I don't think you can just copy and paste late 90s sensibilities, present them in 2015, and expect things to be good. you have to give the audience what they want. today's audience. personally, I think NXT nails it. new japan does as well, to an extent. straight forward storytelling and hard hitting matches. it's not as hard as wwe is making it seem.
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