Yeah. They need people with his mic skills though. I mean they got Reigns on the mic when they know damn well he sucks on it. I don't get it.
WWE Raw drops to lowest TV rating in 18 years
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Yeah. They need people with his mic skills though. I mean they got Reigns on the mic when they know damn well he sucks on it. I don't get it.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Hm how about Undertaker and Sting vs a bunch of scrubs?
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I haven't watched a second of WWE since WWE Battleground, and it has been wonderful not having to deal with the constant disappointment the WWE puts its fans through.
Turned out what it took for me to leave wasn't for some final straw of a bad decision, but instead the complete and utter lack of anything good.
Turned out what it took for me to leave wasn't for some final straw of a bad decision, but instead the complete and utter lack of anything good.
UberTag
Member
You have chosen wisely and broken free from enslavement and can make productive use of your Monday nights again. Congrats!
You broke Vince's spell? What's the secret?
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Doing something else instead?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Cena being off air means he's a lock to win the Rumble right
UberTag
Member
I've just assumed Roman is winning the Rumble every year until we finally embrace him as our lord and savior.
He has to break his own record for number of Rumble match eliminations, you know.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
WWF is so bad right now. I paid £10 for the rumble at the start of the year, saw a great championship match (thanks to a part timer), followed by one of the worst rumble matches I've ever seen.
Coincidentally that was the last of my money that vince has seen too
Coincidentally that was the last of my money that vince has seen too
Miz spoke truth in the promos- he's the guy keeping those feuds with his underlings afloat. The guys aren't making it once they are on their own.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Either create an entertaining TV Show based on Wrestlers (Lucha Underground), or book it as a freaking Entertaining Wrestling Show. It's just a Show on TV with wrestling at the moment.
You just know that Vince secretly loves Diesel as champ despite it losing crazy money.
He was champ for 51 weeks. That doesn't happen if you hate the guy.
Shawn was a worse draw in terms of PPV rates. In mid '96, Vince was begging Bret to come back sooner. They dragged ass from KotR until Survivor Series when the Bret-Austin feud took off so good. People cared more about that than SId-Shawn at Survivor Seres. Shawn was a TERRIBLE babyface. Fans saw right through that. The Undertaker was another guy not super popular as the main-guy, either.
In reality, it's all Vince's fault. He let the Kliq run rampant and ruined many potential pushes backstage. He misuses guys like Vader, Bam Bam, and Owen. All could have been credible Champions, even if for a few months.
In reality, it's all Vince's fault. He let the Kliq run rampant and ruined many potential pushes backstage. He misuses guys like Vader, Bam Bam, and Owen. All could have been credible Champions, even if for a few months.
Last time WWE Raw did a rating like this was in 1997, when it competed against NFL football (Yes WWE fans, NFL existed back then too!) and WCW Nitro that did a 4.2 rating on the same night, same timeslot.
"They will be fine"
In short term? Yes, they will get to Wrestlemania season, and part timers who are actual draws and stars will get people to watch, maybe they will crack a 3.0 rating at some point, maybe RAW after Wrestlemania.
But for Wrestlemania 37? Who is going to fill stadiums of 50-70k people? Dolph Ziggler vs Sheamus?! At some point you run out of nostalgia acts
The average RAW viewer is 40 something years old, that is a fanbase that used to watch in the 80s and 90s. How do you create new fans when the show is incredibly boring but also 3 hours long?
"They will be fine"
In short term? Yes, they will get to Wrestlemania season, and part timers who are actual draws and stars will get people to watch, maybe they will crack a 3.0 rating at some point, maybe RAW after Wrestlemania.
But for Wrestlemania 37? Who is going to fill stadiums of 50-70k people? Dolph Ziggler vs Sheamus?! At some point you run out of nostalgia acts
The average RAW viewer is 40 something years old, that is a fanbase that used to watch in the 80s and 90s. How do you create new fans when the show is incredibly boring but also 3 hours long?
sf2fanatic
Member
I dunno but Rumble has been the best PPV this year. The salt in here when D Brine got knocked over the top ropes. Then Mania is very close 2nd
E: Which led us to some great gifs on RAW the next day on Monday Snow Raw
E: Which led us to some great gifs on RAW the next day on Monday Snow Raw
Vader? Easily could have done business.
Bam Bam? Eh, dude didn't draw with a celebrity at Mania. His main event career finished the day the prelims came in. And Owen? Owen was a great wrestler, but no one in WWE thought he could main event except for Bret. And this was during a shitty, slim main event roster period for WWE. Soon as the Attitude Era hit, Owen morphed from 2nd or 3rd heel to lower-mid card if he was lucky.
If he was still around in 2002, he probably gets a reign on Smackdown at some point. I mean fucking Benoit got a reign, and he was God-awful at promos/segments. Owen at least had a sense of humour.
Wrestlemania 11 buy rate was lower than WM X led by Yoko-Bret, but higher than WM XII led by Shawn-Bret. I don't ever look at that decision with LT and Bam Bam as a bad one because they made good money with it.
They went down hard in 1996, to a variety of factors. Bret as champion in late 95 until WM XII it had an increase in numbers but directly after that, he took him off and numbers went down.
You know Vince loved bringing in guys like Tyson, Mayweather, and LT because it fuels more viewers.
They went down hard in 1996, to a variety of factors. Bret as champion in late 95 until WM XII it had an increase in numbers but directly after that, he took him off and numbers went down.
You know Vince loved bringing in guys like Tyson, Mayweather, and LT because it fuels more viewers.
UberTag
Member
Pristine_Condition
Member
The move to three hours has been a total disaster.
Its gonna be get worse when Cena goes on vacation after Hell in a Cell until the 30th of December, as is the current plan. Personally, I think Cena leaving is amazingly shrewd on his part, as he sees the decline, knows it's gonna get worse, and he doesn't want to give anyone a reason to say he's partly responsible. Say what you want about Cena--nobody's ever said the guy is stupid when it comes to protecting himself and his spot.
Right now it's hard enough for a hardcore fan to devote three full hours every Monday night to Raw. For a new fan? I can't see how a new fan, who isn't invested yet in anything, can be expected to devote three hours a week to seeing if this is something he or she is going to be interested in. It's just asking for too much of a time sink.
The WWE isn't in any real trouble though. They have a long-term TV contract. Their live gates are still good everywhere they go. They sell merch like crazy. The online Network seems to be picking up momentum. Maybe they just don't care that much about this NBC Universal deal they thought was for too little money, and that they are locked into for multiple years to come.
For me, as a fan, the online Network stuff is the only stuff that's consistently "must-see." The rest of it is just background noise on Monday night while I do stuff, or better yet, waiting and hitting the fast-forward on the DVR a whole lot until the fresher, more entertaining stuff, like The New Day, Rusev, Cesaro, KO, or the new women come on the screen. Then I'll sit and watch how disappointing it is when they drop the ball on all these talents, to devote more huge chunks of time to Big Show and Kane segments.
Its gonna be get worse when Cena goes on vacation after Hell in a Cell until the 30th of December, as is the current plan. Personally, I think Cena leaving is amazingly shrewd on his part, as he sees the decline, knows it's gonna get worse, and he doesn't want to give anyone a reason to say he's partly responsible. Say what you want about Cena--nobody's ever said the guy is stupid when it comes to protecting himself and his spot.
Right now it's hard enough for a hardcore fan to devote three full hours every Monday night to Raw. For a new fan? I can't see how a new fan, who isn't invested yet in anything, can be expected to devote three hours a week to seeing if this is something he or she is going to be interested in. It's just asking for too much of a time sink.
The WWE isn't in any real trouble though. They have a long-term TV contract. Their live gates are still good everywhere they go. They sell merch like crazy. The online Network seems to be picking up momentum. Maybe they just don't care that much about this NBC Universal deal they thought was for too little money, and that they are locked into for multiple years to come.
For me, as a fan, the online Network stuff is the only stuff that's consistently "must-see." The rest of it is just background noise on Monday night while I do stuff, or better yet, waiting and hitting the fast-forward on the DVR a whole lot until the fresher, more entertaining stuff, like The New Day, Rusev, Cesaro, KO, or the new women come on the screen. Then I'll sit and watch how disappointing it is when they drop the ball on all these talents, to devote more huge chunks of time to Big Show and Kane segments.
I love when he says "and you can believe...." And he pauses like he's hoping the crowd will respond with "that!" But they never do. He has to say "that" himself a few seconds later. I guess he's trying to develop some sort of "if you smell..." Thing that had the crowd finish the sentence like his cousin but he just can't work it out so it's just embarassing.
SpideySenses
Member
The biggest problem is 3 hours (though there are of course other big problems) and if Vince can't turn down the money, or rather explain turning down the money to investors then I think the best thing they can do is give an hour to NXT talent. You show USA the New York sellout, the speed of which tickets moved in England, it should be an easy sell, especially because trying something new is better than nothing. Of course it needs to be real NXT, so no booking committee, which Vince and everyone else entrenched in the WWE bubble will hate but if they don't deliver the real NXT, then they shouldn't bother at all.
UberTag
Member
I'm not sure NXT is the answer because Vince and Dunn will never allow a wrestling product they're not directly destroying take up their precious prime time network timeslot. NXT must be kept away from USA until Vince is dead and Dunn is fired.
What I do think they need to explore is some form of alternate WWE programming in the first hour that ISN'T NXT. Something akin to what they did for the snowed out RAW. Run the first hour direct from Stamford and have interviews, recaps, angle dissection and essentially set up the big angles and matches that will play out on RAW later that evening. Then cut straight to RAW at the arena at the 9 o'clock hour with a jacked crowd and a hot match right out of the gates.
Big problem with the 3-hour format is the live crowd is drained for much of that last 90 minutes and RAW itself is downright monotonous... essentially the polar opposite of must-see TV. Making the first hour completely different from the standard format will change that.
SpideySenses
Member
Only problem with that scenerio is that I'm not sure USA would be happy, 3 hours of live RAW vs. 2 and recap show could be a hard sell to them, especially because the likelihood is that most viewers would see that hour as the most skippable. You're right though, Vince and Kevin Dunn would certainly not be happy but outside of Wrestlemania season and now the Summerslam NY weekend, they're probably not going to be happy whatever happens, at some point they will have to concede something and Triple H's baby getting a fair shake is as good as it gets.
UberTag
Member
The answer to that dilemma is simple. Don't make that first hour a mere "recap" show. Make it a product that's compelling. That sit-down studio interview with Lesnar, Heyman and Reigns was compelling. If they stick a Todd Pettengill-equivalent in front of a video wall and have them show clips from last week, yeah... of course that would suck. But that's not what you'd do with that hour. You'd explore wrestling angles in ways that can't be done in the ring in front of a crowd.
As for USA, if RAW's ratings improved with the unique format versus the tried-and-true same-old-same-old garbage with a tired ass Corpus Christi crowd every 4 weeks I'd doubt they'd bitch about it.
He was never berried by those guys. The purpose of the results served consequence.
What was the consequence and reasoning behind Triple H and CM Punk, Triple H getting the victory, and moving on to face Kevin Nash? It did nothing for all parties involved. If anything stalled Punk in his rise, it was Triple H inserting himself in that picture.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Vince drives up to CM Punk and AJ Lee's house with a dump truck full of money and starts blasting "In Your Eyes" as loud as he could.
Not sure if the ratings got low for the good or bad reasons, but as for myself, i know RAW had been incredibly boring recently. The only watchable thing was the Cena open challenge cause it was a place for new talents and good matches for a while.
The rest is what i hate the most for now, meaning never ending feuds to let upper midcarder stagnate forever. I hate that when you can feel some hyped wrestler is put in some feud with an other one at the same level in an attempt to let them busy with each other for some weeks/months cause there is nothing else to do. The whole Wyatt family / ambrose&Reings is sooo that. That whole group was the future of WWE one year ago and they have nothing for them right now.
Owens, they give him Ryback really ? And it's not over already ?
Ziggler and Rusev have been in Limbo for weeks... Ziggler is depressing anyway, i love him but there is some point where him, and the crowd, i think, accept that it's going nowhere, i mean his career. It's like "ho well he's really well paid, has had some championship, sell merchs, is over as a performer (not as a character at all, which is an horrible position) so is there a reason to really push him now.... Let's give him filling feuds till he retires.
Now i know maybe i'm not in the majority regarding my motivation to be interested in wrestling, but "story" wise, i need to believe things can happen and champs can emerge. When there is a well segmented main event picture, and a far away mid card and no interaction between the two, it's boring and sad.
The rest is what i hate the most for now, meaning never ending feuds to let upper midcarder stagnate forever. I hate that when you can feel some hyped wrestler is put in some feud with an other one at the same level in an attempt to let them busy with each other for some weeks/months cause there is nothing else to do. The whole Wyatt family / ambrose&Reings is sooo that. That whole group was the future of WWE one year ago and they have nothing for them right now.
Owens, they give him Ryback really ? And it's not over already ?
Ziggler and Rusev have been in Limbo for weeks... Ziggler is depressing anyway, i love him but there is some point where him, and the crowd, i think, accept that it's going nowhere, i mean his career. It's like "ho well he's really well paid, has had some championship, sell merchs, is over as a performer (not as a character at all, which is an horrible position) so is there a reason to really push him now.... Let's give him filling feuds till he retires.
Now i know maybe i'm not in the majority regarding my motivation to be interested in wrestling, but "story" wise, i need to believe things can happen and champs can emerge. When there is a well segmented main event picture, and a far away mid card and no interaction between the two, it's boring and sad.
JehutyRunner
Banned
Watching current the Raw product is too depressing. When they do get it right (like they did the night after SummerSlam), they get it so right. But most of the time it's too depressing.
But then, I remember this is happening in four days.
And I think... everything's going to be okay.
(Not really, WWE needs to get its shit together on the main programming like Raw or Smackdown, but if their match in Brooklyn was a pointer, this was be an instaclassic, so NXT will be okay at least. At least we'll have that)
TL;DR - The sooner Haitch is the man in charge, the better.
But then, I remember this is happening in four days.
And I think... everything's going to be okay.
(Not really, WWE needs to get its shit together on the main programming like Raw or Smackdown, but if their match in Brooklyn was a pointer, this was be an instaclassic, so NXT will be okay at least. At least we'll have that)
TL;DR - The sooner Haitch is the man in charge, the better.
SpideySenses
Member
It could work, I'm just not sure if USA would even sign off on it if they pay as much for the first hour as the third, they're giving WWE a lot of money, enough that Vince can't turn it down despite the problems, going from a hour of live wrestling to what you described could be a hard pill to swollow even if it can succeed.
I think the bigger problem though is that even with great packages, awesome Heyman interviews each week, way too many fans would see the hour as skippable and quite frankly want an hour to be skippable. 3 hours is going to be long no matter what, if there's an hour which would never have a great match, a great angle in front of a hot crowd, you can way too easily rationalise that hour away as not needing to bother with even if it is of high quality.
Officerrob
Banned
Their product is slowly breaking me. I usually have Raw on in the background while I do something on my laptop, but even the 25% attention I usually pay to the product is fed-up. I didn't watch one second of Raw on Monday, instead deciding to get my fill on Review-A-Raw (where they ripped the show to shreds).
The Diva's Revolution is just the latest in a long line of simple storylines that basically write themselves that they have MASSIVELY fucked-up. Everybody knows the problems: the extra hour, Smackdown being worthless, the even booking, the awful writing, the commentary, the forced WWE terms that make everybody sound nonhuman, etc. It's been this way for some time now, and it's likely not changing
The only thing that I legitimately look forward to now are Brock appearances
The Diva's Revolution is just the latest in a long line of simple storylines that basically write themselves that they have MASSIVELY fucked-up. Everybody knows the problems: the extra hour, Smackdown being worthless, the even booking, the awful writing, the commentary, the forced WWE terms that make everybody sound nonhuman, etc. It's been this way for some time now, and it's likely not changing
The only thing that I legitimately look forward to now are Brock appearances
Woody Invincible
Banned
Well obviously, why else would Cole be getting jacked, if not to get a run at being champ.
Why are they so afraid of pulling the Heel trigger on Cena again? I keep hearing its the merchandising, but I dont remember any other mega face in the WWE's history that they didnt turn heel at least once.
Wasnt Austin a big merch sale? He went heel (with hilarious results). Rocky went heel. Angle went heel. TripleH, Undertaker, etc. Why is CEna different?
Im not saying it would save anything, but it sure would at least be different
Wasnt Austin a big merch sale? He went heel (with hilarious results). Rocky went heel. Angle went heel. TripleH, Undertaker, etc. Why is CEna different?
Im not saying it would save anything, but it sure would at least be different
Three hours is kind of their killer, here. There's just so much padding they put in the show that I have almost stopped watching WWE save for PPVs. They still don't have a roster large enough and wrestlers diverse enough to make it interesting.
Consider for a moment Kane is in the main event picture. Again. In 2015.
And as another user above me said, Smackdown has turned into a filler show. Instead of being an entirely different show with a different roster, it's almost Raw-lite, and that means it comes with any awful baggage that can be carried between the two shows, like the plotlines.
Consider for a moment Kane is in the main event picture. Again. In 2015.
And as another user above me said, Smackdown has turned into a filler show. Instead of being an entirely different show with a different roster, it's almost Raw-lite, and that means it comes with any awful baggage that can be carried between the two shows, like the plotlines.
Officerrob
Banned
Hogan, it took Bischoff to turn Hogan heel.
JesseEwiak
Member
For one, turning Austin heel was a horrible mistake that almost single handily (along with the botched Invasion) ended the Attitude Era boom. Fans didn't just go, "oh, the guy I liked is a bad guy now." They went, "my hero turned on me. Fuck this," and turned off the TV.
In addition, Cena isn't just a huge merch seller. Unlike Hogan, the kids are still cheering him and buying his merch in massive numbers, which wasn't true of Hogan in WCW. Plus, Cena genuinely loves doing the Make-A-Wish stuff.
Plus, frankly, Vince and by extension, Stephanie and Trips doesn't have too. This isn't 1997 where their competition is backed by one of the most powerful men in entertainment. Their "competition", such as it is, consists of a promotion that still exists because the family dumping millions into it doesn't want their idiot daughter in charge of any part of the business that actually makes them, another promotion already got a budget cut and is on the niche network of a second rate Hollywood producer that is only available to 1/2 the country at best (or on a Spanish network no white person will watch), or is a rounding error of a massive television station ownership group that despite airing all over the country on numerous CW affiliates at 1 AM on Saturday's is still shot like it's being produced by Paul Heyman with HD cameras in 1999.
Even if things completely fall apart for the WWE here in the long run, guess what - there's 2 billion Indian and Chinese people who aren't going to whine on the Internet.
Nocturnowl
Member
Since Raw is down in the shitter anyway can they just give me champion Kane for at least a month? there's little to lose considering Rollins era is a ratings killer and WWE might as well go all in on their misguided use of ageing attitude era holdovers in 2015, it might spark a one night only curiosity viewing from some of "really? Kane? in 2015?!"
Plus in a strange coincidence it's one of the only storylines on Raw this year that's been booked in a long term manner thus making it one of the few notable parts of the show by default since everything else is rematches of rematches that were also ppv rematches.
Plus in a strange coincidence it's one of the only storylines on Raw this year that's been booked in a long term manner thus making it one of the few notable parts of the show by default since everything else is rematches of rematches that were also ppv rematches.
N-New Day?
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