DeaconKnowledge
Member
Both 80s WWF and 90s WCW were PG and they drew just fine.
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WWE Raw drops to lowest TV rating in 18 years
- Thread starter RBH
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Oh, I wasn't trying to defend the low ratings. I was explaining why it was a terrible RAW.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Uh, the bolded isn't even close to being true. 80s and early to mid-90s WWF and WCW were WAY more cartoony than this.
The whole "PG is the culprit!" argument is garbage. Adding scantily clad women, profanity, and adult storylines will be pointless with the same terrible writing. Know why the Attitude Era was great? They had complete storylines from the main event all the way down to the cruiserweights. Mid-card guys--Steve Blackman, Val Venis, Goldust, Boss Man, Road Dogg, the Radicalz, Jericho, D-Lo, etc.--ALL had thorough storylines. All of them at once! Tag teams had thorough storylines that intertwined. And, of course, you had a couple main event guys that were superstars beyond the wrestling ring. You aren't getting that now--nowhere close.
The WWE's problem is that they're trying to be what UFC is. I'd argue the WWE isn't cartoony ENOUGH at this point. Most of the guys are just "First name Last name" with similar theme music. Vignettes backstage and on the Network let us see into their real lives! They let us see how these guys are outside the ring! You know who else does that? UFC. And guess what? It's real.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Lex himself said it in a shoot interview a few years ago. It's not on youtube, but here's a recap of the shoot where they talk about Lex saying it.
I do feel bad for The Shield tho. The ratings have gone to shit ever since Vince decided to give them the belts. Every member has now held the main belt in the past year + and the ratings have been the worst in decades. They broke them apart too soon. Should have let them do their thing for another couple years.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Could it simply be possible to accept that the general public just doesn't give a shit about pro wrestling anymore? Might be time to think it's a program that should only be on the WWE Network
I mean, 1.87, Jesus
I mean, 1.87, Jesus
Until the USA Network stops paying them, it'd be a bad idea to move RAW to the network.
I think, if they maintained the same number of subscribers that they have now, they'd have to charge $26 a month to make up for the current deal they have with USA.
I don't know if network subscribers would be willing to pay an extra $16 a month for the garbage that is live Raw and Smackdown every week.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Today is the 20th anniversary of the nWo's founding. Correct me if I'm wrong, but tomorrow is the 20th anniversary of Kevin Nash chucking Ray Mysterio face first into a trailer.
Wonder why we don't see stuff like that anymore.
Wonder why we don't see stuff like that anymore.
UberTag
Member
The real bottom will fall out once advertisers no longer deem it worthwhile to pay the exorbitant rates USA charges for a weekly wrestling program with ever-diminishing viewership. Even if there's a steady crop of 2.6 million tuned in each week regardless of the circumstances, how many of those people are actually PAYING attention after they've been lulled into a deep slumber by 50/50 booking and rehashed programs? My bet is not too many.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I don't believe it was the night after. I thought it was a couple weeks later--when they did the Disney World tapings.
I've been watching PPV events for about a year on the WWE network and continued to drift away from trying to watch either of the wrestling tv in between. New Day being champs for a year without any real build up of competition, now they are feuding with the Wyatts who have been tossed around randomly. Cena is wrestling a 3-3 tag match after Roman was done with Styles. People being brought up to lose to Jericho. The whole HHH demanding people hate him to try to get Roman cheered. Not much for me to get interested in.
AcademicSaucer
Member
I really thought Shane was going to make everything great again
UberTag
Member
Never fear. They're about to unleash upon us an epic Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Orton program that will captivate all our imaginations.
Haven't you heard? It's the "new era". It's what happens when you SAY everything will be fresh and exciting without DOING anything differently.
Apparently the ad rates that are being charges for Wrestling are anything but exorbitant. In fact it seems that they are way lower than for anything else on TV. That's at least what Dave Meltzer says on that topic. But it is kind of backed up by the demographics that have been posted on NeoGAF (be it in this thread or some other) of Boxing, MMA and Wrestling viewers.
UberTag
Member
Yeah, I second-guessed my inclusion of exorbitant once I wrote it. But that begs the question... if nobody is watching the 3rd hour and USA is charging peanuts to advertise for the 3rd hour and the only thing keeping the WWE profitable is the 3rd hour... then why the hell does USA WANT the 3rd hour? What's in it for them?
It was like Trump's presidential pivot.
Because 2-3 million people is still about 2 to 3 times more viewers than their other prime time programming gets. At least I believe that's the breakdown.
UberTag
Member
More people ought to watch Mr. Robot. That show's pretty damn fine.
inanutshell
Member
USA wants to remain one of the most-watched cable channels so that providers won't threaten to drop them or reduce their fee per subscriber.
Stallion Dan
Member
I disagree, I only watch the odd match here and there and they're all tame in the violence department compared to what I used to watch. The build up to matches is tame and then the actual match is too, throwing in an odd bit of profanity so they sound like they actually mean it and not fighting someone for playground level BS goes along way.
Also while it's not a personal grab, having scantily clad women probably did help the ratings.
Host Samurai
Member
Main gripes are with the booking and the homogenized WWE style of wrestling. Than you break it down more and you get terrible storylines and commentary.
Serpens007
Member
Expected low rating, and I think WWE expected it as well since the episode didn't move much the stories they're telling.
Anyway, I did find it very entertaining although it was kind of pointless, so it kinda showed that WWE was very aware of the eventual drop.
Actually, I've found RAW to be much more enjoyable these past three or four weeks than the months before. I hope it gets better with the brand split.
The AJ Styles segment was so much fun. It's pretty clear that AJ is having tons of fun in the story against Cena, and don't even care about being berried.
Anyway, I did find it very entertaining although it was kind of pointless, so it kinda showed that WWE was very aware of the eventual drop.
Actually, I've found RAW to be much more enjoyable these past three or four weeks than the months before. I hope it gets better with the brand split.
The AJ Styles segment was so much fun. It's pretty clear that AJ is having tons of fun in the story against Cena, and don't even care about being berried.
I'd be happy too. He's over as fuck and getting paid more than he ever has done in his career. The results aren't going his way, but that doesn't seem to matter to the fans. They know they are watching bullshit booking.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
You're right, I was looking at the Uproxx recaps, it was two weeks later. The day after was the fallout, the week after was the first appearance of Hollywood Hogan, the week after that was the lawn dart and the first paid announcement.
reptilescorpio
Member
All the pieces of the puzzle are there, problem is the people who decide how to put it together have their own idea of what it should look like. The roster is stacked as fuck with potential, they really need to push the talent creatively at this point. The in ring wrestling will be great for the most part, it's time to work on the other 75% of what it takes to get people watching.
PG is fine. People want to be engaged in what they are watching, you don't need to be misogynistic, bloodied and obscene to get that. You need compelling writing, compelling stories and compelling characters. That's not there right now for the most part.
PG is fine. People want to be engaged in what they are watching, you don't need to be misogynistic, bloodied and obscene to get that. You need compelling writing, compelling stories and compelling characters. That's not there right now for the most part.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Why now an entire show dedicated to Dolph/Corbin matches? I'm pretty sure they've already wrestled enough times to fill three hours.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I'd like to see a supercut of all Corbin/Ziggler matches
Just watch a random 1 minute YouTube recap that WWE puts up, pretty much the same thing.
Basically if USA drops Raw they go from one of the top rated channels to bottom feeder status.
TBS is in a similar situation with Conan.
Two networks that have a direct symbiotic relationship with a single flagship show.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I agree. Very few guys on the roster even have gimmicks (or personalities, for that matter) other than "I'm a dude who wears my own t shirt and has a dumb made up name". I don't think trying to edge even further into the "reality" era type storylines works in 2016. People know way too much about how the business works for the stuff that actually worked in the attitude era to work again.
Until 90s WWF RAW got to racy for them and they dropped out of the race.
PG isn't the only thing holding it back but it is one of them.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
This is the opposite of what I want, I want the 3 hour director's cut
PG isn't holding them back in any possible way, if anything, it is helping them
Ninja Scooter
Member
"Edgy" pro wrestling doesn't work in 2016 the way it did 20 years ago. If anything wwe should probably go in the other direction and be more cartoony and comic book-y.
They're not really characters. For all of Dean's lunatic fringe shtick, he doesnt seem to do that much crazy shit. Shane o Mac jumping off the cage at WM was crazy and hurt himself more than Taker, and that's really the action that I expect Dean to do.
I guess that's where WWE is fucking up. It's a lot of telling and not that much showing. Bray is the eater of world's except he can't beat anyone, Roman is the guy but the crowd fucking hate him. Rollins is the architect or whatever, but it worked because his run as the MITB holder was genuinely a good, manipulative run in some sense. But you can't just do that with one guy on the roster and call it a day.
I'd say the believable guys on the roster, is KO and Rollins. Ones a prize fighter and the other a schemer. Even then KO's it's not personal, it's just business shit is wearing down - his fixation on taking down Sami Zayn in the ladder match cost him the briefcase. It doesn't fit the character.
KidGalactus
Member
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Watching some of the circa 2000 WCW episodes. This is the greatest trainwreck in the history of the sport, lol. In one episode alone, we have...
Kimberly Page referring to the crowd as "marks" and serving DDP divorce papers.
Vince Russo going to the commentary table and dropping an uncensored s-bomb, and Schiavone and Madden reacting like Russo just killed someone.
David Arquette beating Eric Bischoff after doing The Worm.
Tank Abbott beating up some random guy on the WCW.com desk, and we see footage of him beating up on Madden.
Vampiro beating Sting in a first blood match by giving the throat slash gesture, then a tub of cranberry juice (I think) gets dumped on Sting.
This is car crash TV at its finest. And I can't look away.
Kimberly Page referring to the crowd as "marks" and serving DDP divorce papers.
Vince Russo going to the commentary table and dropping an uncensored s-bomb, and Schiavone and Madden reacting like Russo just killed someone.
David Arquette beating Eric Bischoff after doing The Worm.
Tank Abbott beating up some random guy on the WCW.com desk, and we see footage of him beating up on Madden.
Vampiro beating Sting in a first blood match by giving the throat slash gesture, then a tub of cranberry juice (I think) gets dumped on Sting.
This is car crash TV at its finest. And I can't look away.
funkystudent
Member
Go back and watch attitude era RAW. It was kind of terrible in a lot of spots but it does have some key things lacking today.
Its much just more balanced. Everyone has a purpose or a on going feud. Every belt felt important. It isnt centred completely around the World Title and then everything else is filler.
The commentary didnt suck. Seriously. This is probably the biggest single issue with WWE these days. Commentary is maybe the most important thing these shows have. Bad commentary ruins everything. Great commentary makes everything better.
Presentation wasnt static. WWE has been using the same stage / camera angles / lighting rigs / shitty "zoom on every single bump" for nearly a decade. That needs a change.
But I am convinced none will change until there is a major shift in who is running the shows from creative to production.
Its much just more balanced. Everyone has a purpose or a on going feud. Every belt felt important. It isnt centred completely around the World Title and then everything else is filler.
The commentary didnt suck. Seriously. This is probably the biggest single issue with WWE these days. Commentary is maybe the most important thing these shows have. Bad commentary ruins everything. Great commentary makes everything better.
Presentation wasnt static. WWE has been using the same stage / camera angles / lighting rigs / shitty "zoom on every single bump" for nearly a decade. That needs a change.
But I am convinced none will change until there is a major shift in who is running the shows from creative to production.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
I've been watching the occasional Raw from 1997 to about 2000, actually yesterday I just watched the Raw that was broadcast on the last night of Monday Nitro, with Vince gloating about buying WCW and Shane going "Yoink! Top LEL" on Vince. That happened about halfway through, but kept watching anyways because it ended with a match between Austin/Rock and the Brothers of Destruction.
But I mostly signed up for the Network for the WCW stuff. Glad they finally got all the Monday Nitro episodes up, now I want the B-shows. Saturday Night, Pro, Worldwide, and especially Thunder.
crackhead_bob
Member
I hate the mandated term,"WWE Universe." It's so unnatural sounding coming out of the performers. Very incessant as well. Is the direction all on Vince? And what factors have made this product unwatchable? I haven't been a regular watcher since 2005, but I tune in every now and then.
abstract alien
Member
I remember when Punk went on a rant about that in the ring, saying "they aren't a universe, they are fans". A week or two later he was back to screaming about it, and it seemed really unnatural. Guessing Vince/Trips tightened up on him
It is some of the most ham-fisted branding I can remember seeing. Insufferable how they take these clumsy terms and repeat them endlessly. They should take a look at their marketing sometime and try to figure out who's to blame for these mouthfuls. I doubt the repetition issue will be fixed any time soon, sadly.
And I never understood why you'd need to brand your fanbase. It's not like the WWE's the only one that does it (Whoniverse for example), but it still seems pointless.
And I never understood why you'd need to brand your fanbase. It's not like the WWE's the only one that does it (Whoniverse for example), but it still seems pointless.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
The problem seems to be that when they do go cartoony, like with Fandango or Adam Rose or Bo Dallas, they don't do anything with those characters but make them repeat their gimmick over and over again, which probably makes them more cartoony than any of the Attitude Era characters, but doesn't make them any better.
The problem is they don't know how to write characters beyond the defining gimmick. If the gimmick is realistic, the character turns out bland. If the gimmick is cartoony, the character turns out dumb.
I do like a lot of these suggests talked about here, and having more emphasis on non-main event storylines is certainly a good idea, but you can take it in any direction you want and it will work out if there's talent behind it, and it won't if there's not. Simple as that. There's really nothing that can be fixed until the creative team gets replaced with people with talent. And that probably includes Vince himself at this point.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
WWE HQ is a Pokemon GO gym, lol.
http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/wwe-headquarters-pokemon-go-gym/
I'm imagining someone explaining this to Vince...😂😂😂
http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/wwe-headquarters-pokemon-go-gym/
I'm imagining someone explaining this to Vince...😂😂😂
He'll make a storyline out of it in 5 years.
I do feel bad for The Shield tho. The ratings have gone to shit ever since Vince decided to give them the belts. Every member has now held the main belt in the past year + and the ratings have been the worst in decades. They broke them apart too soon. Should have let them do their thing for another couple years.
The Shield beat Evolution two months in a row.
They had no one left to feud with worth a damn as a stable.
The Silver
Member
did they ever beat the Wyatts?
Vince is Giovanni.
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