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[Host Samurai]

I haven't watched much WWE over the years but what happened to the idea of turning someone full heel to eventually get him over as a face. The Rocks best work was when he went full heel and over time all those boos turned to cheers and the face turn is complete.

Things like that don't really work anymore. The Rock was a flash in the pan with tons of charisma. These days turing a an already hated face heel than face again won't work. Roman will always be known as the corporate company guy that Vince wants to push to the moon and took Daniel Bryans spot.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

It funny that you complaining that I don't back my claims with article but yet you haven't at all I'm mean where are getting this WWE is the 5 entertainment/sports brand info at cause it clearly ain't true.

Triple H, NXT Takeover conference call yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdZSl9tUhZM (At around 18:00, he states they're in the top 5 brands.)

You especially should listen to the entire thing, Triple H talks global expansion for a quarter of it. He has an informed opinion on it, but I'm not sure you do. Support your arguments or at least point me to the info that started your jumps to conclusions. Just once. When you do that, you strengthen your own arguments.

 

[Heroman]

It's weird that you guys see me as defending current WWE despite their downward trend or something when my message is pretty simple: if you think you aren't being worked by Roman Reigns or something similar, and you think the show is boring, why can't you stop watching?

Also, do you guys not see me arguing about them expanding globally and how imminent it is? The numbers are going down only in America. We're not the only place in the world. When you've exhausted your reach in one place, you pivot and expand. The diversity and international theme in the Cruiserweight Classic was no accident, and Triple H said as much yesterday: http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2017/3/23/15045270/triple-h-wants-diversity-wwe

North America $ 149.8
Europe/Middle East/Africa (EMEA) 36.2
Asia Pacific (APAC) 11.2
Latin America 1.8

It doesn't how much they hope to expand, USA is their biggest market and they all there money here and if that market begins to fall it going to hurt a hell of a lot.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Because America is of massive importance.

It's impossible to overstate how important the USA tv contract is. If they let RAW go on its current course, there's a possibility they'll lose their contract. And USA were the only ones who bid last time from memory.

Also I watch raw highlights, I haven't watched a full show since they went 3 hours.

 

[Sephzilla]

Things like that don't really work anymore. The Rock was a flash in the pan with tons of charisma. These days turing a an already hated face heel than face again won't work. Roman will always be known as the corporate company guy that Vince wants to push to the moon and took Daniel Bryans spot.

I actually think if they execute it right it could work. Roman himself isn't the problem, he's a biproduct of Vince's stubbornness to not give the customer what they want

 

[Paracelsus]

It's weird that you guys see me as defending current WWE despite their downward trend or something when my message is pretty simple: if you think you aren't being worked by Roman Reigns or something similar, and you think the show is boring, why can't you stop watching?

Also, do you guys not see me arguing about them expanding globally and how imminent it is? The numbers are going down only in America. We're not the only place in the world. When you've exhausted your reach in one place, you pivot and expand. The diversity and international theme in the Cruiserweight Classic was no accident, and Triple H said as much yesterday: http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2017/3/23/15045270/triple-h-wants-diversity-wwe

None of what HHH wants matters if they don't have the top of the card that is absolutely quality and with worldwide mainstream appeal. It won't happen if they keep bait and switching at Wrestlemania, because when *I*, Average Joe, see Owens and AJ stripped of the belts to give them to people who are not even in the business anymore I go "ok, they are not good enough to carry the biggest show, it's a good reminder I need not to waste my time with them when they show up because they are just filler, paper champions".

It's one thing to take the belt off Angle at NWO2001 because you have Austin vs Rock 2, it's a completely different situation, but when you book two names to carry the main belts for a year and they aren't even part of the main event at Wrestlemania you know you have huge identity issues.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

North America $ 149.8
Europe/Middle East/Africa (EMEA) 36.2
Asia Pacific (APAC) 11.2
Latin America 1.8

It doesn't how much they hope to expand, USA is their biggest market and they all there money here and if that market begins to fall it going to hurt a hell of a lot.

You researched something before posting.

The market has been falling in the US since Steve Austin turned heel at Wrestlemania 17. They've never recovered. They're now ready to expand globally.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

It's weird that you guys see me as defending current WWE despite their downward trend or something when my message is pretty simple: if you think you aren't being worked by Roman Reigns or something similar, and you think the show is boring, why can't you stop watching?

Also, do you guys not see me arguing about them expanding globally and how imminent it is? The numbers are going down only in America. We're not the only place in the world. When you've exhausted your reach in one place, you pivot and expand. The diversity and international theme in the Cruiserweight Classic was no accident, and Triple H said as much yesterday: http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2017/3/23/15045270/triple-h-wants-diversity-wwe

Isn't this whole thread about how there are less and less people watching these days? Obviously less and less people are watching.

Also, people who ARE watching could be watching for other wrestlers and just deal with whatever boring ass shit they're pushing with people like Reigns. That's exactly how I watched it before I quit altogether.

 

[Heroman]

You researched something before posting.

The market has been falling in the US since Steve Austin turned heel at Wrestlemania 17. They've never recovered. They're now ready to expand globally.

They already are a global company.

 

[Mahonay]

The market has been falling in the US since Steve Austin turned heel at Wrestlemania 17. They've never recovered.

This is true.

 

[Sephzilla]

They've been a global company since before WrestleMania 17

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I actually think if they execute it right it could work. Roman himself isn't the problem, he's a biproduct of Vince's stubbornness to not give the customer what they want

Think about it like this though: is Roman ever going to be what any of us want? I turn on the dude the moment he ever speaks on the mic. His ring work is all punches, clotheslines, and running strikes.

What exactly is it that Roman could be for anyone if not this mega-heel he currently is with the young male demographic?

They already are a global company.

They've been a global company since before WrestleMania 17

They don't have a global product. They have an American product.

https://twitter.com/TripleH/status/829003809464553472

What do you guys think is going to be the result of this and John Cena learning Mandarin?

 

[Heroman]

Triple H, NXT Takeover conference call yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdZSl9tUhZM (At around 18:00, he states they're in the top 5 brands.)

You especially should listen to the entire thing, Triple H talks global expansion for a quarter of it. He has an informed opinion on it, but I'm not sure you do. Support your arguments or at least point me to the info that started your jumps to conclusions. Just once. When you do that, you strengthen your own arguments.

Posting a video of HHH does shit for your agrument cause HHH is a already biased source. Like your agrument is basically here what WWE said and nothing more.

 

[Sephzilla]

Think about it like this though: is Roman ever going to be what any of us want? I turn on the dude the moment he ever speaks on the mic. His ring work is all punches, clotheslines, and running strikes.

What exactly is it that Roman could be for anyone if not this mega-heel he currently is with the young male demographic?

Have him, in character, become a mega heel. Acknowledge all of the things people hate about him. Have him go on the mic and go "fuck you guys, I got mine. I'm gonna beat your indy darlings and keep my spot because the boss likes me more than he likes your favorite guy". Instead of making him the awkward hero character nobody actively wants to cheer for, make him the villain everyone wants to see finally lose.

They don't have a global product. They have an American product.

https://twitter.com/TripleH/status/829003809464553472

What do you guys think is going to be the result of this and John Cena learning Mandarin?

They have an American product they distribute to all parts of the world. The later part of that turns it into a global product. It's been this way for a couple of decades already.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Posting a video of HHH does shit for your agrument cause HHH is a already biased source. Like your agrument is basically here what WWE said and nothing more.

Can you expand on what you mean here? I don't understand. What makes Triple H a biased resource for evidence WWE is expanding globally?

Have him, in character, become a mega heel. Acknowledge all of the things people hate about him. Have him go on the mic and go "fuck you guys, I got mine. I'm gonna beat your indy darlings and keep my spot because the boss likes me more than he likes your favorite guy". Instead of making him the awkward hero character nobody actively wants to cheer for, make him the villain everyone wants to see finally lose.

He's already done this for years, and he's the top mega-heel already. No one gets booed more than him in any scenario.

I think you guys still think WWE is stuck in 2015 where they got surprised by the fan response to Roman at the Rumble. In 2017, they worked with that response. They're well-aware of him and the fans' feelings.

 

[Flying Toaster]

Think about it like this though: is Roman ever going to be what any of us want? I turn on the dude the moment he ever speaks on the mic. His ring work is all punches, clotheslines, and running strikes.

What exactly is it that Roman could be for anyone if not this mega-heel he currently is with the young male demographic?



They don't have a global product. They have an American product.

https://twitter.com/TripleH/status/829003809464553472

What do you guys think is going to be the result of this?

Roman needs to loose the body armor turn heel and start a evil tag team with the Hulk! In all seriousness though WWE has so many issues with writing and characters the fans will never be appeased.

 

[Paracelsus]

Think about it like this though: is Roman ever going to be what any of us want? I turn on the dude the moment he ever speaks on the mic. His ring work is all punches, clotheslines, and running strikes.

What exactly is it that Roman could be for anyone if not this mega-heel he currently is with the young male demographic?



They don't have a global product. They have an American product.

https://twitter.com/TripleH/status/829003809464553472

What do you guys think is going to be the result of this and John Cena learning Mandarin?

Absolutely no different than when they put the belt on Khali for that indian audience or when they buried Punk so ADR could go to Mexico as the WWE undisputed champion.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Absolutely no different than when they put the belt on Khali for that indian audience or when they buried Punk so ADR could go to Mexico as the WWE undisputed champion.

Wow, you guys really can't look outside of America or what has happened in the past.

 

[Sephzilla]

He's already done this for years, and he's the top mega-heel already. No one gets booed more than him in any scenario.

I think you guys still think WWE is stuck in 2015 where they got surprised by the fan response to Roman at the Rumble. In 2017, they worked with that response. They're well-aware of him and the fans' feelings.

Except in story-line he's still pitched as the hero.

 

[Paracelsus]

Have him, in character, become a mega heel. Acknowledge all of the things people hate about him. Have him go on the mic and go "fuck you guys, I got mine. I'm gonna beat your indy darlings and keep my spot because the boss likes me more than he likes your favorite guy". Instead of making him the awkward hero character nobody actively wants to cheer for, make him the villain everyone wants to see finally lose.

You literally described Rock going from SS1998 to WMXV, and to an extent "best for business" Orton. The problem with that is that a. he was gold on the mic even as a heel and b. he was feuding not with one but with two great babyfaces, mankind and especially Austin. Who are these faces on RAW that could work a good program with someone who can't talk and is just another repeat of things we already saw recently?

 

[Foggy]

Wow, you guys really can't look outside of America or what has happened in the past.

What is wrong with you?

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

They don't have a global product. They have an American product.

https://twitter.com/TripleH/status/829003809464553472

What do you guys think is going to be the result of this and John Cena learning Mandarin?

Probably not as profitable as making the American product hot again.

Cena is now part time too. Him being fluent in Mandarin would have meant a lot 10 years ago.

What is wrong with you?

I think we're being worked brother. No way this is serious, it's russoesque

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Absolutely no different than when they put the belt on Khali for that indian audience or when they buried Punk so ADR could go to Mexico as the WWE undisputed champion.

Or when they created the Martial Arts Championship

 

[Sephzilla]

You literally described Rock going from SS1998 to WMXV, and to an extent "best for business" Orton. The problem with that is that a. he was gold on the mic even as a heel and b. he was feuding not with one but with two great babyfaces, mankind and especially Austin. Who are these faces on RAW that could work a good program with someone who can't talk and is just another repeat of things we already saw recently?

Roman can actually talk and has some pretty natural charisma when you pull him away from Vince and WWE Creative. His stuff he does on Twitter and on UUDD actually makes Roman come off as a pretty cool dude. In terms of WWE faces - You could put him against someone like Styles or Zayn and it would likely come out fantastic. Styles in particular helped give Roman probably the best match of his career.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

What is wrong with you?

I'm really excited for 10 years from now when the top Chinese talent come to Raw to challenge our top talent. "American NXT to Raw callup" dream matches aren't going to sustain us forever. We're going to be watching for the UK Champ vs US Champ, first time ever, live at Wrestlemania.

Did any of you also listen to the Triple H conference call? Have any of you also wondered why they show us the entire global announce team before every PPV for the last half year? Why do they do that every show? What's with this UK championship that doesn't have a show to belong on? Weird!

 

[Sephzilla]

I'm really excited for 10 years from now when the top Chinese talent come to Raw to challenge our top talent. "American NXT to Raw callup" dream matches aren't going to sustain us forever. We're going to be watching for the UK Champ vs US Champ, first time ever, live at Wrestlemania.

Did any of you also listen to the Triple H conference call? Have any of you also wondered why they show us the entire global announce team before every PPV for the last half year? Why do they do that every show? What's with this UK championship that doesn't have a show to belong on? Weird!

I'm sorry, sir, but I find this to be an extremely naive perspective when it comes to WWE and in particular Vince McMahon. WWE still struggles with giving African American people main event feuds and world championships. You really think within the next decade things are suddenly going to dramatically shift like this?

Also I hate to be the bearer of bad news but multiple international announce teams have existed for a long ass time in WWE. This isn't something new.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I'm sorry, sir, but I find this to be an extremely naive perspective when it comes to WWE and in particular Vince McMahon. WWE still struggles with giving African American people main event feuds and world championships. You really think within the next decade things are suddenly going to dramatically shift like this?

The diversity already exists on NXT and Triple H's Network brands: http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2017/3/23/15045270/triple-h-wants-diversity-wwe

“I want there to be so much diversity on every level. I want it to be international diversity. I want there to be something for everybody within WWE so you can gravitate towards characters that you can relate to. That’s still a work in progress.

It’s a work in progress when you look at the Performance Center and you look at the talent there and see that 40 percent of the talent is international now, there’s 17 countries represented. A quarter of the talent there is women. The diversity level is at an all-time high and that’s on purpose. We’ve done that for desired effect.

Is it showing right now on the main roster? Nah, not necessarily because it’s going to take a little bit of time to percolate up, but it’s there.

I want that diversity. When you talk about the women, I want there to be a Sasha Banks; the smaller, run her mouth, cocky, arrogant, little athlete. I want there to be a bigger, dominant athlete like a Charlotte. I want there to be a Nia Jax that brings a whole different danger component. I want there to be a Bayley that is this naïve, fan-friendly, little girl centric character that everybody loves.

Then you still want there to be the Bellas, who are like the Kardashians of the women’s division. You want that variety.

It’s the same with the guys. I want there to be a Cena, I want there to be a Randy Orton. But I also want there to be a Bray Wyatt. I want there to be a Braun Strowman. I want there to be a Finn Balor. I want there to be a Samoa Joe or a Kevin Owens. Big Cass and then a little guy like Enzo that can run his mouth nonstop.

I want that diversity.”

You think that's not going to filter up just as what's been hot in the NXT for the last five years has filtered up by now? Raw now vs Raw 5 years ago is like a Dream Match Factory vs The Leftovers of Vince's late-2000s Meathead Era (and Punk).

Also I hate to be the bearer of bad news but multiple international announce teams have existed for a long ass time in WWE. This isn't something new.

They highlight them on purpose now. Did you listen to the NXT Conference Call? I know you can appreciate all the obvious foreshadowing around the global expansion. It's not even hidden in that call.

 

[Sephzilla]

For the love of god I've listened to the NXT conference call.

The only person being worked here is you because the stuff they're trying to highlight now is stuff they've been doing for ages already and they're just polishing it up for their new "push" because they need to draw attention to their product. You're being suckered by the most elementary simple business talk.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

They highlighted the international announce teams in the nineties lol

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

They highlighted the international announce teams in the nineties lol

I guess I'll read between the lines for you guys:

We're going to get all of these international NXTs and PPVs live or semi-live with English announcing. NJPW getting English commentary opened up new opportunities for expansion for them.

 

[kiguel182]

Roman would look so much better without that dumb body armor.

 

[Mahonay]

What if Roman Reigns was the IWGP Heavyweight Champion?

 

[Sephzilla]

If anything this revived "global push" from WWE is because they're scared of NJPW's growth. Which is also why they've been trying to poach New Japan stars for a while.

 

[Foggy]

I'm really excited for 10 years from now when the top Chinese talent come to Raw to challenge our top talent. "American NXT to Raw callup" dream matches aren't going to sustain us forever. We're going to be watching for the UK Champ vs US Champ, first time ever, live at Wrestlemania.

Did any of you also listen to the Triple H conference call? Have any of you also wondered why they show us the entire global announce team before every PPV for the last half year? Why do they do that every show? What's with this UK championship that doesn't have a show to belong on? Weird!

 

[Heroman]

What if Roman Reigns was the IWGP Heavyweight Champion?

Njpw would be fucked

 

[Heroman]

But yeah WWE wasn't Global back then.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Anyone going to NJPW's first non-ROH US shows?

https://www.njpw1972.com/g1special/

But yeah WWE wasn't Global back then.

When did I say they weren't? They've always broadcasted to many countries around the world. Now they're building actual international rosters, brands, and Performance Centers. It's a different definition of global expansion.

 

[Sephzilla]

But yeah WWE wasn't Global back then.

It should also be noted that the main event of that PPV was a Canadian vs a Brit for the Intercontinental Title

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I guess I'll read between the lines for you guys:

We're going to get all of these international NXTs and PPVs live or semi-live with English announcing. NJPW getting English commentary opened up new opportunities for expansion for them.

Yes?

Anyone going to NJPW's first non-ROH US shows?

https://www.njpw1972.com/g1special/

When did I say they weren't? They've always broadcasted to many countries around the world. Now they're building actual international rosters, brands, and Performance Centers. It's a different definition of global expansion.

I would if I was anywhere close, they may put the belt on Kenny there.

 

[pretty done]

What if Roman Reigns was the IWGP Heavyweight Champion?

What if Naito was the NXT women's champion?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I like the NJPW owner saying the exact same things as me.

http://411mania.com/wrestling/njpw-owner-talks-about-wwes-global-expansion/

In a series of posts on Twitter (translated by Chris Charlton), NJPW and Bushiroad owner Takaaki Kidani spoke about the recent global expansion of WWE and commented on whether or not NJPW might work with them.

He said: “WWE strategy 1: raise roughly 2 billion Yen from the network to create a network of global territories and tie up talent. It’s very possible WWE purchase a promotion in Japan. WWE are shoring up their network because of cable cutters and prevalence of streaming, meaning declining TV ratings. The cable TV structure as is will collapse in the US within 3-5 years. There are many reasons for WWE to create local territories. It cuts cost just to send talent on international tours and not the whole infrastructure. WWE are only functionally profitable in the U.S., Canada and U.K. They have TV elsewhere but that’s all. By creating territories, they’re able to actually create products with awareness of cultural differences and characteristics of markets. WWE have had difficulty in creating new stars. By going to local territories and broadcasting them, they can create network stars. WWE are taking big gambles, in IT for one. This isn’t the platform to discuss NJPW strategy fully, but we will announce something soon. We are entering a phase where you are either with WWE or against them. WWE have a lot of weaknesses and time is not on their side.”

He doesn’t specify what direction he might want to take, but the very end seems to suggest that NJPW may try to counter WWE coming to Japan. They may also try to lock talent down to contracts to prevent WWE from grabbing a bunch of their stars like they did last year with Shinsuke Nakamura, AJ Styles, Luke Gallows and Karl Anderson.

 

[Sephzilla]

When did I say they weren't?

Well....

You researched something before posting.

The market has been falling in the US since Steve Austin turned heel at Wrestlemania 17. They've never recovered. They're now ready to expand globally.

... your post here pretty directly implies that they weren't an global company before. Stating that "they're now ready to expand globally" implies they weren't before. Except they were.

 

[Mahonay]

What if Naito was the NXT women's champion?

 

[Paracelsus]

Pure wrestling now on average is probably better than it was 20 years ago, a lot of great workers like 2002 Smackdown, but it doesn't mean a thing where they come from if they are just there for their flippy shit moment.

Remind me when was the last time a Japanese wrestler competed for the WWE championship or at least the IC title? Oh, right, there was Jimmy Wang Yang (-_-) fighting for the cruiserweight title, and never winning it.

Good workers won't do them any good, and we already had the European title which doesn't make sense when the IC belt is the low-midcard championship already. Making all sorts of fisher price patronizing belts for all countries only waters down their value.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Pure wrestling now on average is probably better than it was 20 years ago, a lot of great workers like 2002 Smackdown, but it doesn't mean a thing where they come from if they are just there for their flippy shit moment.

Remind me when was the last time a Japanese wrestler competed for the WWE championship or at least the IC title? Oh, right, there was Jimmy Wang Yang (-_-) fighting for the cruiserweight title, and never winning it.

Good workers won't do them any good, and we already had the European title which doesn't make sense when the IC belt is the low-midcard championship already. Making all sorts of fisher price patronizing belts for all countries only waters down their value.

Do you think these belts are going to be defended exclusively on Raw or Smackdown? They're championships of the countries it represents, defended by someone who lives there, in shows that happen there, in a local territory set up by WWE. Fully, fully, fully different from any European or Martial Arts Championships, or UK one-night-only PPVs.

Is it that you guys think WWE can only exist when under full control of Vince McMahon? He's not going to be running these international shows while over 70. He'll pay for them and "run" them, but he doesn't know the culture or talent like who he works with on Raw.

 

[Sephzilla]

Do you think these belts are going to be defended exclusively on Raw or Smackdown? They're championships of the countries it represents, defended by someone who lives there, in shows that happen there, in a local territory set up by WWE. Fully, fully, fully different from any European or Martial Arts Championships, or UK one-night-only PPVs.

Is it that you guys think WWE can only exist when under full control of Vince McMahon? He's not going to be running these international shows while over 70. He'll pay for them and "run" them, but he doesn't know the culture or talent like who he works with on Raw.

Which means come WrestleMania time they're going to be undercard talent at best

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Which means come WrestleMania time they're going to be undercard talent at best

Well, this post just comes back to the cynicism talk that got me into this thread initially yesterday.

Wish there was more Power of Positivity in Wrestling GAF. Or that those who know they won't feel it would just move on to a new hobby for a while.

 

[Sephzilla]

It's not cynicism, it's accepting reality.

 

[Heroman]

Well, this post just comes back to the cynicism talk that got me into this thread initially yesterday.

Wish there was more Power of Positivity in Wrestling GAF. Or that those who know they won't feel it would just move on to a new hobby for a while.

What? there is plenty of positivity in WrassleGAF I mean look at the discussion about NJPW.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

It's not cynicism, it's accepting reality.

This. The reality of watching wwf for 28 years.