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[Thirty7ven]

You said Starfield needs to be a breath of a wild moment. Meaning high sales and critcal acclaim. Bethesda single player track record supports that. It's not a "very very tall order" for it to be a breath of a wild moment.

That’s not what it means at all. Plenty of games with high sales and critical acclaim that don’t create a Breath of the Wild moment. That game sold 30 million units and it’s an exclusive, and most of its sales would’ve been at full price or near to, a real system seller. It’s regarded as one of if not the best game ever by a lot of people.

You are trying to undermine my arguments by trying to paint Breath of The Wild as your normal critically acclaimed game. It isn’t and if you think it is then you don’t know enough.

Try to make a list of games in your head that created a Breath of The Wild moment and then move on from there.

 

[Ginzeen]

That’s not what it means at all. Plenty of games with high sales and critical acclaim that don’t create a Breath of the Wild moment. That game sold 30 million units and it’s an exclusive, and most of its sales would’ve been at full price or near to, a real system seller. It’s regarded as one of if not the best game ever by a lot of people.

You are trying to undermine my arguments by trying to paint Breath of The Wild as your normal critically acclaimed game. It isn’t and if you think it is then you don’t know enough.

Try to make a list of games in your head that created a Breath of The Wild moment and then move on from there.

Most games Triple A games aren't exclusive though. The only one that really makes true exclusives these days are Nintendo. So it's kinda hard to make a system seller when it's not exclusive. Starfield is PC and Xbox. A breath of the wild moment to me is just a game that sells really well and gets high acclaim

 

[Nothing1234]

Starfield is more anticipated than Grand Theft Auto 6 Riky ?

 

[Thirty7ven]

A breath of the wild moment to me is just a game that sells really well and gets high acclaim

Right but that’s not what it means because it’s not what it is. BOW is a lot more than that.

 

[Ginzeen]

Right but that’s not what it means because it’s not what it is. BOW is a lot more than that.

No that's just your opinion on it

 

[Thirty7ven]

No that's just your opinion on it

It’s not an opinion, but you can keep looking like an ignorant fool. Go at it.

 

[Ginzeen]

It’s not an opinion, but you can keep looking like an ignorant fool. Go at it.

It's 100 percent a opinion. Lol so mad

 

[scarlet0pimp]

If there really is a PS5 pro (which i think is a bit silly since the current PS5 has barely been used). I would not be surprised if Microsoft didn't just launch a new Xbox not lableled as a pro but a whole new model, but fully backward compatible. Devs could still be release games for the Series consoles for as long as they want, Xbox would become something like the iphone where the software level is what devs support.

 

[Insane Metal]

It's a shame, the Series X is a great console.

 

[Unknown?]

Could have gone elsewhere but since PS5 hasn't sold 40 million and then we have 110 million PS4 owners on top there is obviously tens of millions of people yet to upgrade, simple maths
We saw Halo at 120fps and Forza with Ray Tracing so we have seen it and we have Forza Motorsport to come which is a real next gen only game, there is plenty to come from the hardware, The Coalition are bound to push it further.

But we know a sizable amount of PS5 owners never had a PS4.

 

[skit_data]

Why do a staggered release when they are not buying your hardware regardless? Is that hard to understand that people might console a console for affordability and simplicity than paying out 3x+ the price for a gaming PC?

Not buying the hardware regardless? Xbox One did pretty good considering the circumstances IMO, especially in the first couple of years.
Launch aligned the Series consoles seems to falling behind Xbox One, something I would mainly attribute to a lack of predictability of the first party output. By having day and date releases you're adding additional dev time and QA that could have been shortened for console (to some extent) and later release a PC version (which I assume might need additional time simply due having a wider range of specs).
In short it would probably be beneficial for them by having the console (which presumably pulls in more money per capita by them owning the storefront and platform outright) keeping some kind of pull factor. PC gets a staggered release that (hopefully) is more optimized.
It sort of is treating PC players as secondary citizens, but that kinda makes sense speaking from a strictly economic perspective since they make less money per sold game on that platform while also leading to more QA time.

Why would I, as the consumer, want that at all? It's up to Xbox to make the numbers work, but speaking as a PC-only gamer I spend a LOT more money on Xbox games than I did before they made that move.

My initial post wasn't arguing from a consumers perspective.

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

Because console users are the most valuable customer in there ecosystem. They get a cut of all transactions made by that user. If they we're to stop being a platform holder without a console then guarantee they wouldn't be able to make the current model sustainable (debate whether the current model is sustainable as is).

You are right, for them to be successful as 3rd party they would need to release good games that people actually want to play, something that they don't seem to be able right now

 

[Thirty7ven]

If there really is a PS5 pro (which i think is a bit silly since the current PS5 has barely been used). I would not be surprised if Microsoft didn't just launch a new Xbox not lableled as a pro but a whole new model, but fully backward compatible. Devs could still be release games for the Series consoles for as long as they want, Xbox would become something like the iphone where the software level is what devs support.

Terrible idea, hope they do it.

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

If there really is a PS5 pro (which i think is a bit silly since the current PS5 has barely been used). I would not be surprised if Microsoft didn't just launch a new Xbox not lableled as a pro but a whole new model, but fully backward compatible. Devs could still be release games for the Series consoles for as long as they want, Xbox would become something like the iphone where the software level is what devs support.

1) are there enough demand for their already launched consoles for them even think about a new model?
2) would be hell for devs to develop games for 3 different model from just one console manufacturer
3) people who bought Series X thinking it would be the most powerful console and the only one necessary could become cautious about ever buying a Ms console at launch or at least if the first years of any Gen

 

[drganon]

Could have gone elsewhere but since PS5 hasn't sold 40 million

About that...

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Could have gone elsewhere but since PS5 hasn't sold 40 million and then we have 110 million PS4 owners on top there is obviously tens of millions of people yet to upgrade, simple maths
We saw Halo at 120fps and Forza with Ray Tracing so we have seen it and we have Forza Motorsport to come which is a real next gen only game, there is plenty to come from the hardware, The Coalition are bound to push it further.

 

[Nothing1234]

Oh dear, when talking without numbers comes back to bite you.

 

[Astray]

Jimbo just got proven to lurk these parts.

 

[MrTired]

NGL, love the pettiness.

 

[ChiefDada]

Lol, poor Riky. You couldn't have known the sales news would come right after, but it doesn't prevent your post from being added to the ridiculously long list of terribly aged quotes by Riky.

Could have gone elsewhere but since PS5 hasn't sold 40 million and then we have 110 million PS4 owners on top there is obviously tens of millions of people yet to upgrade, simple maths

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/playstation-5-sales-surpass-40m-worldwide.1659200/

 

[Bernardougf]

I think they will get it together. They only had 1 bad gen. They will finish this gen strong. Plus their adding all these studios to their arsenal. Makes me confident.

This assumption that the same people that has been fucking up for 10 plus years with 10 studios them 20 is finally going to get it together now thst they will have 30 is based only in pure hope at this point ...but is what they have to support them..the holpefull .. I dont think you are enough unfortunately


And thats why they are going to try to buy the industry ... and I hope they fail miserably if this is their intention

 

[Dane]

Not buying the hardware regardless? Xbox One did pretty good considering the circumstances IMO, especially in the first couple of years.
Launch aligned the Series consoles seems to falling behind Xbox One, something I would mainly attribute to a lack of predictability of the first party output. By having day and date releases you're adding additional dev time and QA that could have been shortened for console (to some extent) and later release a PC version (which I assume might need additional time simply due having a wider range of specs).
In short it would probably be beneficial for them by having the console (which presumably pulls in more money per capita by them owning the storefront and platform outright) keeping some kind of pull factor. PC gets a staggered release that (hopefully) is more optimized.
It sort of is treating PC players as secondary citizens, but that kinda makes sense speaking from a strictly economic perspective since they make less money per sold game on that platform while also leading to more QA time.

My initial post wasn't arguing from a consumers perspective.

Xbox One sold reasonably because its a console that had a huge support from third parties and a estabilished brand, it would never flop like WiiU did.

Doesn't make sense treating PC players as second tier citizens, why not hire more people to make sure it goes well with all platforms? Treating them like that would be beneficial to who?

 

[scarlet0pimp]

1) are there enough demand for their already launched consoles for them even think about a new model?
2) would be hell for devs to develop games for 3 different model from just one console manufacturer
3) people who bought Series X thinking it would be the most powerful console and the only one necessary could become cautious about ever buying a Ms console at launch or at least if the first years of any Gen

IF they release Next Gen Xbox in Nov 25 that would be 5 year life for the Series X, it would come a year after the PS5 pro, similar to how the 1X came a year after the PS4 Pro and I think people would not be too weary of a new console after 5 years, that's about the life people expect. That gets Xbox out of the cycle of releasing a new console at the same time as Sony and gives them maybe 2 years or so being the more powerful console since Sony would not want to release PS6 too soon after PS5 pro.
Lastly devs can choose to Support the Series consoles or not, Microsoft will likely keep supporting them at least until the PS5 is end of life.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Omg doom and gloom while

Revenue was $56.2 billion and increased 8% (up 10% in constant currency)
Operating income was $24.3 billion and increased 18% (up 21% in constant currency)
Net income was $20.1 billion and increased 20% (up 23% in constant currency)

Xbox != Microsoft. You're referring to Microsoft's quarterly results, we're talking just Xbox here. Try to keep up.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Do we consider Google Pixel phones dead when all other Android sales trounce that hardware and compete with Apple?

How about Surface devices? Same goes.

Never change Doom&GloomGAF.

Surface hardware is not Xbox consoles. Microsoft does not manufacture Lenovo, HP, Dell, Asus PCs, nor do they get a cut of their hardware sales. No other console outside Xbox is using Microsoft's OS or GDK APIs.

You try to divert Doom&Gloom™ by pretending Windows, Azure & Office success is Xbox success.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm honestly SHOCKED that MS doesn't seem to think Starfield will help the Xbox brand in its release quarter. How is this possible?!

 

[Flabagast]

I'm honestly SHOCKED that MS doesn't seem to think Starfield will help the Xbox brand in its release quarter. How is this possible?!

It does not shock me.

Is someone on neogaf buying an xbox for starfield ?

 

[mckmas8808]

Man hardware sales are disastrous.

It wont surprise me if down the line some exclusives end up releasing on PS5 only to recoup the dev costs

I'm finally starting to think the bolded will be correct. I may take 2-3 years, but MS has to come to their senses at some point.

I distinctly remember a discussion I had with my uncle right as this gen was beginning, he was about to buy his 3 sons their 1st console, and his question was "should I buy a PS5?".

I tried to talk to him about Gamepass + Series S being potentially a better value for his sons so he doesn't have to worry about buying them new games all the time (games are expensive), his response was basically "dude please it's gotta be PS5" and he went to get a PS5 the next day, got it in a bundle with Miles Morales and Demon's souls (which I traded him for Sackboy). Keep in mind that this is a guy whose last seriously-played console was the 3DO probably (Road Rash and Need For Speed were the fucking bomb, as was SSF2 Turbo). He's not some console warrior, he's not even an active gamer anymore, he's the dictionary definition of "normie", and that's his reaction.

With each quarter, it genuinely feels like this brand is a zombie that's only still going because it's being constantly pumped up by some otherworldly spell, there's no organic appeal or customer base for it anymore, no one will listen to its marketing anymore, network effects are completely against it too, and they don't have any actual good will or good 1P content that can claw back market share. It only lives because the current strategy says it has to live and the company is able to feed $$$ to said current strategy.

I think it's only a matter of time until the Xbox console business is completely gone. I'm glad I got my Series X, but I barely turn it on at all (my wife seems to like Ori so maybe she will play it there? other than that who knows?).

The bolded is something that people need to keep in mind when they say a digital-only future is the only way to go. People like Astray and his uncle are proof that people are still trading physical games out here to their benefit!

Xbox as a traditional console might actually be dead as we speak

Knowing that PS5 Pro is on the way & gives PS5 software the clear advantage for the next few years with games like GTA6 coming Microsoft just told us they will not release a Pro console any time soon.


If they let Xbox suffer from 2024 until 2027 it's going to be hard selling the next console .

Xbox only found success when beating PS3 to the punch so its either them cutting back on traditional console releases & hoping for a situation where other manufactures make devices that play Xbox content or they will jump ahead and release the next Xbox in 2025/26 to get a head start.

No way MS tries to start the next-gen in 2025 or 2026. They'd need to be designing that console RIGHT NOW. Plus starting early development for games for it today. No way that's happening.

 

[X-Wing]

They've done well to keep growing the division and make it profitable before they got the games out, good to see Gamepass still growing.
Once Starfield appears which is the most anticipated game this generation and then Forza I'm sure they will have hit the one game a quarter target. Eventually most gamers when you have that stream of exclusives will jump in.
Starfield will also generate a lot of extra money from Gamepass subscribers with the premium upgrade for early access, millions jumped on that with Forza Horizon 5 and this will be a lot bigger.

Quit the drugs. They are bad for you.

 

[onQ123]

No way MS tries to start the next-gen in 2025 or 2026. They'd need to be designing that console RIGHT NOW. Plus starting early development for games for it today. No way that's happening.

I know but it's the only way it would make sense for them not to do a refresh & still have plans to continue to be in the business of making traditional consoles.

I'm honestly SHOCKED that MS doesn't seem to think Starfield will help the Xbox brand in its release quarter. How is this possible?!

Have you seen Redfall?

All jokes aside they are basing it off of reality
We don't have any real indication that Starfield will bring a big change.

We see big games like Hogwarts Legacy & Diablo 4 selling really well but not doing much for Xbox Series consoles . Most people will probably play Starfield on PC

 

[Astray]

Astray Astray and his uncle are proof that people are still trading physical games out here to their benefit!

Just a comment on this point. My uncle going for a physical bundle was because the local distributor did this during the launch to maximize profits lol. I'm willing to bet that he or his kids don't really care much about physical vs digital.

The point of the story was mainly to highlight how ineffectual the Xbox series launch strategy was at attracting a literal 1st time customer who doesn't really care much about brand wars and doesn't have an existing PS4 or XBone library, it's ultimately a personal anecdote, not proof of anything really.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

I know but it's the only way it would make sense for them not to do a refresh & still have plans to continue to be in the business of making traditional consoles.


Have you seen Redfall?

All jokes aside they are basing it off of reality
We don't have any real indication that Starfield will bring a big change.

We see big games like Hogwarts Legacy & Diablo 4 selling really well but not doing much for Xbox Series consoles . Most people will probably play Starfield on PC

But Starfield will not be on PS5 because someone has decided that they need that game to be the equivalent of GOW Ragnarok or Zelda for Xbox. At least they hope so. Those kind of games have clear potential that can be evaluated by analysing preorders, mesuring social engagement and other metrics. Xbox should have a good idea of what they can hope with it. And if that game, the biggest since Halo infinite in my opinion, and the biggest until the next real hit( next Doom? the Indiana jones game?) can't help significantly then it is shocking. Either they want to plan small to have "exceded all expectations" for the next quarter, or they really believe that Starfield will not push Gamepass beyond +5%, and that sales will not move that much, be it software or hardware. Sad if true, but then it make them not putting it on PS5 all the more baffling.

 

[onQ123]

But Starfield will not be on PS5 because someone has decided that they need that game to be the equivalent of GOW Ragnarok or Zelda for Xbox. At least they hope so. Those kind of games have clear potential that can be evaluated by analysing preorders, mesuring social engagement and other metrics. Xbox should have a good idea of what they can hope with it. And if that game, the biggest since Halo infinite in my opinion, and the biggest until the next real hit( next Doom? the Indiana jones game?) can't help significantly then it is shocking. Either they want to plan small to have "exceded all expectations" for the next quarter, or they really believe that Starfield will not push Gamepass beyond +5%, and that sales will not move that much, be it software or hardware. Sad if true, but then it make them not putting it on PS5 all the more baffling.

Some times it's not about scoring yourself but taking the ball away so the other team can't score.

Phil Spencer said it himself that exclusives is not going to sell Xbox consoles now. They know that games need to also be on PlayStation & Nintendo consoles to have big success now but they need the threat of games not coming to PlayStation as leverage.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Some times it's not about scoring yourself but taking the ball away so the other team can't score.

Phil Spencer said it himself that exclusives is not going to sell Xbox consoles now. They know that games need to also be on PlayStation & Nintendo consoles to have big success now but they need the threat of games not coming to PlayStation as leverage.

Wrong analogy, I know, but more like taking the ball with a foul and then accepting the red card coming your way. Losing money just for PR points, and that just after the Redfall fiasco is such a bad idea...
I can understand the logic. But I really find it hard that a game like Starfield, that can do numbers comparable to Hogwarts, Elden Ring... be sacrified just for giving Xbox the right to say we have exclusives too.

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

They aren't dead yet. And nobody should want them dead. Competition is good.

No they not gonna be dead, they will go full third party, not throwing millions and millions (and then some more) for developing new hardware and the production cost etc...,and after 3 years loosing money on every console the sell.

Noppe going third party is the way. Bring out the games from all theyr developers ( and they have a boatload of them) on every device, also on the Playstation, take on every platform 70% for every game they sell and call it a day.
But i just had a brainfart, so dont take this post serieus.....

 

[ByWatterson]

Putting the next COD entry on GamePass Day One would make many people consider Xbox over PlayStation during Holiday season.

I might eat crow on this one, but I feel your average COD player is someone who only plays COD, is probably already on Playstation, and is smart enough to realize $70 is less than $204.

 

[Banjo64]

Starfield is more anticipated than Grand Theft Auto 6 Riky ?

Don’t waste your breath. It’s not even the most anticipated game this year.

 

[mckmas8808]

I might eat crow on this one, but I feel your average COD player is someone who only plays COD, is probably already on Playstation, and is smart enough to realize $70 is less than $204.

"Those" gaffers don't understand how math works lol. But great point!

 

[64bitmodels]

They'd never have to worry about unfavorable comparisons to Sony & Nintendo ever again. It would literally just all go away. They'd have no reason to withhold games from Sony & Nintendo platforms, either. Immediate increases in revenue and profits. Can finally sell Xboxes for profit instead of losing $200 per unit. Secures Windows as the gaming OS on PC while Valve is trying to shift people over to Linux with Steam Deck (and follow-ups).

Late post and old thread and older topic and all that but bringing Microsoft vs Valve into this discussion actually adds another interesting layer i never thought about.

I've already stated my opinion on this whole Xbox NUC idea you have going on, it's good but they need to make adjustments to the name and brand before it could actually do some good stuff for them.
However if Valve were to get involved (which they clearly are with the Deck) i'm not sure MS would succeed so much.

Microsoft is already maligned amongst the PC gaming community not even because of Xbox but because of their software (Xbox games launcher and Windows store are both buggy pieces of shit), their attempts to bring paid online to PC with GFWL, and of course the usual complaints PC users have about Windows being good or bad depending on if the number is even or odd.

Valve basically saved the PC gaming space the same way Nintendo did for console gaming. If during the whole Xbox NUC thing, Valve came in with an OS that's free, more consistent, faster and simpler to use, better integration with Steam services, doesn't require giant upgrades, and superior cross compatibility with other Valve products, Microsoft would be at the same impasse they are at now with Playstaion and Nintendo where they either need to compete or else they will have to shift focus. More people would undoubtedly get the Valve product because people like Valve more and Microsoft has a stank on them that they can't just clear away with a couple good games, or software updates.

You can already see it with the ROG Ally where despite seemingly great sales there's a lot of returns because of the unpolished software experience which can be chalked up to Windows being harder to make a frontend for than Linux. Despite MS's best efforts there's no way they can compete with an open source, easily malleable OS like Linux on that end- especially when their software and UI design teams have been deteriorating in quality for pretty much the last 11 years.

 

[Captain Toad]

I'm honestly SHOCKED that MS doesn't seem to think Starfield will help the Xbox brand in its release quarter. How is this possible?!

They must have mock reviewers that are only giving it a 10/10 and not the 11/10 they need to move the needle.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Late post and old thread and older topic and all that but bringing Microsoft vs Valve into this discussion actually adds another interesting layer i never thought about.

I've already stated my opinion on this whole Xbox NUC idea you have going on, it's good but they need to make adjustments to the name and brand before it could actually do some good stuff for them.
However if Valve were to get involved (which they clearly are with the Deck) i'm not sure MS would succeed so much.

Microsoft is already maligned amongst the PC gaming community not even because of Xbox but because of their software (Xbox games launcher and Windows store are both buggy pieces of shit), their attempts to bring paid online to PC with GFWL, and of course the usual complaints PC users have about Windows being good or bad depending on if the number is even or odd.

Valve basically saved the PC gaming space the same way Nintendo did for console gaming. If during the whole Xbox NUC thing, Valve came in with an OS that's free, more consistent, faster and simpler to use, better integration with Steam services, doesn't require giant upgrades, and superior cross compatibility with other Valve products, Microsoft would be at the same impasse they are at now with Playstaion and Nintendo where they either need to compete or else they will have to shift focus. More people would undoubtedly get the Valve product because people like Valve more and Microsoft has a stank on them that they can't just clear away with a couple good games, or software updates.

You can already see it with the ROG Ally where despite seemingly great sales there's a lot of returns because of the unpolished software experience which can be chalked up to Windows being harder to make a frontend for than Linux. Despite MS's best efforts there's no way they can compete with an open source, easily malleable OS like Linux on that end- especially when their software and UI design teams have been deteriorating in quality for pretty much the last 11 years.

Good points. MS would still have an advantage in terms of APIs and middleware for game development, but you're right that Valve could just push Steam OS as a free OS for those hypothetical Xbox NUC style gaming PCs and try undercutting Microsoft that way. It would be up to MS to find a way they can still make those devices worth having and sticking with Windows over Steam OS.

Though, since said devices would be sold for a profit, and still be very price-competitive with other similar devices (potentially even cheaper) while having similar or better specs (it's not possible IIRC to find a NUC-style PC at current with GPU performance equivalent to PS5 or Series X for the $700 - $1000 price bracket for example), that is one way MS could offset the potential Steam OS adoption. Another way is that combined with, as you said, making their own OS integration actually competitive, hence suggesting a console-like default UI that still offers access to Steam, EGS, GOG etc. and MS's store but otherwise disables all the bloat for services and programs someone just mainly gaming is not going to use (with exceptions like OBS for streamers).

Then otherwise, those people can switch to the regular Windows desktop environment; 2-in-1 convertible laptops already do stuff like this when you put them in "tablet mode" and the UI interface changes to accommodate, FWIW.

 

[64bitmodels]

Though, since said devices would be sold for a profit, and still be very price-competitive with other similar devices (potentially even cheaper) while having similar or better specs (it's not possible IIRC to find a NUC-style PC at current with GPU performance equivalent to PS5 or Series X for the $700 - $1000 price bracket for example), that is one way MS could offset the potential Steam OS adoption.

That's true, but these devices are still being sold for profit at the end of the day. People will get them, install Steam on them (if it's not already there) and basically be done with it, no money going to MS after the first transaction to get the product. Maybe a bit of cash if said user subscribes to gamepass but the amount of profit Xbox Generates from that is a very questionable subject.

However Steam directly makes money off of every steam purchase made with a steam deck and they can sell them at a loss because they know the amount of new users coming in will offset the loss not to mention the existing userbase of people buying valve games and products. You can already see it with how much cheaper the base level Deck is than most of the other PC handheld devices.

a theoretical 700 NUC Xbox could easily be undercut by a similar 500 dollar Steam Machine 2 with identical specs, basically.

Another way is that combined with, as you said, making their own OS integration actually competitive, hence suggesting a console-like default UI that still offers access to Steam, EGS, GOG etc. and MS's store but otherwise disables all the bloat for services and programs someone just mainly gaming is not going to use (with exceptions like OBS for streamers).

Even if MS were to compete by making their own frontend that's built into the OS (and therefore removing a lot of potential jank that comes with fullscreening some app made to boot on startup), they won't easily be able to keep up with the innovations Steam will make with Big Picture since Steam listens to its community more and actively lets them participate in developing the OS.

All the innovations like Proton, Decky Loader, improved suspend, gamescope, vibrant deck, Steam Input, etc all come from years of feedback and foresight from people in and out of valve who truly want to see the platform succeed, this cannot happen easily under MS who do what they want and expect others to comply.