Support NeoGAF

[-SD-]

this is unlike anything before O_O

The Dark Sorcerer demo from last year's E3 was equally, if not more, impressive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqeuHGESZBA

EDIT: My animated PNG of the face close-up: https://public.dm1.livefilestore.co...Z8APEAciXI/dark_sorcerer_face_812p.png?psid=1

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

The Dark Sorcerer demo from last year's E3 was equally, if not more, impressive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqeuHGESZBA

More proofs that it was realtime: fiddling with it in real time, , moving the golem place and thus his clothes interact when he does workout. Also the demo cna reach 90 FPS at some times:

http://n4g.com/news/1282858/the-dar...ed-demo-will-be-released-in-a-couple-of-weeks

 

[Brad Grenz]

Am I the only one who remembers hearing months ago GAF and Twitter "insiders" were talking about some incredible new Anti-Aliasing tech in the works at ICE for PS4? I didn't hallucinate that, did I? Because it's the image quality that is what really makes this UC4 footage seem so impossibly great, and that would offer some explanation.

 

[TAJ]

.

You're doing it wrong.
Your Halo 3 and Crysis 3 shots are not remotely representative of those games on 360.
Halo 3 in particular had nasty as fuck IQ.

 

[Garrus Vakarian]

So if this is what early gen ND looks like then what the hell will their late gen games look like?

 

[bigboss370]

The Dark Sorcerer demo from last year's E3 was equally, if not more, impressive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqeuHGESZBA

EDIT: My animated PNG of the face close-up: https://public.dm1.livefilestore.co...Z8APEAciXI/dark_sorcerer_face_812p.png?psid=1

so really what is happening is that sony is handing out black magic to their devs

 

[-SD-]

So if this is what early gen ND looks like then what the hell will their late gen games look like?

The same, but with anisotropic texture filtering.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

so really what is happening is that sony is handing out black magic to their devs

And this is only the PS3 engine, wait until you see their game using the dedicated PS4 engine.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

The same, but with anisotropic texture filtering.

Unless they create a new engine, for exmaple look how MGS4 looked and how MGSV looks (even on PS3), the enw engine even allows new ways of gameplay aka open world.

 

[Thorgal]

I'm not hating, I'm just trying to be realistic in my expectations for any game including PC. It's just with consoles, developers will show you the crem della crem when it comes to videos and screenshots but once you get their game home on your TV, it doesn't look quite like it did from their presentation. When I started playing SS I noticed instantly the aliasing, mind you I do game on my PC monitor for my ps4 and PC so maybe that's a major factor. Like I said in a earlier post, I hope ND puts it down with U4 and show developers like Crytek and other devs that you don't need beefy hardware to produce great graphics. But the fact still remains that games when released for consoles hardly look better or equal to their original presentation. I mean I look at the console screenshot thread often and the pics there leave a lot to be desired imo.

Only because those shots have been compresed.

 

[Night Hunter]

And this is only the PS3 engine, wait until you see their game using the dedicated PS4 engine.

Stahp! Please! Despite what you might have read or heard, no one in this thread, including you, has any idea how they adapted the engine for PS4. Weren't some games still using UE2.5 late in the PS360 life cycle? You can preach this all you want but in the end this is all just tales from your ass.

 

[-COOLIO-]

So if this is what early gen ND looks like then what the hell will their late gen games look like?

if the gen maxes out at this level, im utterly satisfied. this looks like a graphics jump that's equivalent to ps3 launch level -> uc3/gow3 level, but just 2 years after a console launch.

 

[Scarphace]

Even if the final product looks 80% as good as the trailer I will be happy. Now it's time to get a ps3 and catch up on all the previous ones since I never had one last gen.

 

[filopilo]

More proofs that it was realtime: fiddling with it in real time, , moving the golem place and thus his clothes interact when he does workout. Also the demo cna reach 90 FPS at some times:

http://n4g.com/news/1282858/the-dar...ed-demo-will-be-released-in-a-couple-of-weeks

yeah ,on the title screen.And the really interactive part is just a short part with the gobelin (specifically optimized runtime/dataset).
Most of the rest wouldn't run at what we can call interactive frame rate.Smartly done but not entirely honest.

 

[Night Hunter]

yeah ,on the title screen.And the really interactive part is just a short part with the gobelin (specifically optimized runtime/dataset).
Most of the rest wouldn't run at what we can call interactive frame rate.Smartly done but not entirely honest.

Absolutely right. I mean Quantic Dream has a clear history of their games not reaching the visual quality of the tech demos they show before. Why should we believe them now. Wait ...

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Stahp! Please! Despite what you might have read or heard, no one in this thread, including you, has any idea how they adapted the engine for PS4. Weren't some games still using UE2.5 late in the PS360 life cycle? You can preach this all you want but in the end this is all just tales from your ass.

I don't have time to argue with impolite rude people like you:

http://www.officialplaystationmagaz...quality-you-can-get-on-the-console-says-cage/

http://www.gamepur.com/news/12433-david-cage-dark-sorcerer-minimum-quality-you-can-get-ps4.html

http://www.gamepur.com/news/12433-david-cage-dark-sorcerer-minimum-quality-you-can-get-ps4.html

There so many twitetr posts from the devs, official news from playstaion sites and other. Feel free to find them when you quit your bitching mode.

http://n4g.com/news/1351735/the-dar...engine-will-use-a-new-engine-for-developement

"In a meaty video interview with Rev3Games, David Cage, Founder and CEO of Quantic Dream, revealed a stunning new detail: the breathtaking The Dark Sorcerer tech demonstration is merely a PlayStation 4 port of Beyond: Two Souls engine, and not the “real” PS4 engine they’re going to use. If that is true, then I absolutely cannot wait to see what they’ll come up with when they will finally tailor the engine to fully use the power of PlayStation 4."

 

[Night Hunter]

I don't have time to argue with impolite rude people like you:

http://www.officialplaystationmagaz...quality-you-can-get-on-the-console-says-cage/

There so many twitetr posts from the devs, official news from playstaion sites and other. Feel free to find them when you quit your bitching mode.

Sorry that you think I'm being rude (which I am), I just can't stand it when people give off something they think they "know" as fact just because they read some vague technical stuff somewhere, especially if they are pushy about the subject.

The fact is that engines have been gutted and revamped, adapted, rewritten, etc since the dawn of time. And neither you nor me know shit about these things. Maybe they make a completely new engine as you say, maybe they just put in new stuff, maybe they adapt it god knows how. So unless you are, idk, Durante on his alt acc or someone from Naughty Dog, there is absolutely no reason to believe anything you say.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Sorry that you think I'm being rude (which I am), I just can't stand it when people give off something they think they "know" as fact just because they read some vague technical stuff somewhere.

The fact is that engines have been gutted and revamped, adapted, rewritten, etc since the dawn of time. And neither you nor me know shit about these things. Maybe they make a completely new engine as you say, maybe they just put in new stuff, maybe they adapt it god knows how. So unless you are, idk, Durante on his alt acc or someone from Naughty Dog, there is absolutely no reason to believe anything you say.

STFU, I modified my previous link with the one you need:

http://n4g.com/news/1351735/the-dar...engine-will-use-a-new-engine-for-developement

http://www.worldsfactory.net/2013/09/11/david-cage-the-dark-sorcerer-is-just-beyond-ported

"In a meaty video interview with Rev3Games, David Cage, Founder and CEO of Quantic Dream, revealed a stunning new detail: the breathtaking The Dark Sorcerer tech demonstration is merely a PlayStation 4 port of Beyond: Two Souls engine, and not the “real” PS4 engine they’re going to use. If that is true, then I absolutely cannot wait to see what they’ll come up with when they will finally tailor the engine to fully use the power of PlayStation 4."

Don't argue with me anymore, I don't pull shit from my "@$$"

 

[Night Hunter]

"In a meaty video interview with Rev3Games, David Cage, Founder and CEO of Quantic Dream, revealed a stunning new detail: the breathtaking The Dark Sorcerer tech demonstration is merely a PlayStation 4 port of Beyond: Two Souls engine, and not the “real” PS4 engine they’re going to use. If that is true, then I absolutely cannot wait to see what they’ll come up with when they will finally tailor the engine to fully use the power of PlayStation 4."

Don't argue with me anymore,I don't pull shit from my "@$$"

Of course you do. You don't know shit about what that snippet means. Neither do I. But I don't go around stating my opinion as fact in every.goddamn.post for 2 pages.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Of course you do. You don't know shit about what that snippet means. Neither do I. But I don't go around stating my opinion as fact in every.goddamn.post for 2 pages.

"In a meaty video interview with Rev3Games, David Cage, Founder and CEO of Quantic Dream, revealed a stunning new detail: the breathtaking The Dark Sorcerer tech demonstration is merely a PlayStation 4 port of Beyond: Two Souls engine, and not the “real” PS4 engine they’re going to use."


David Cage himself said that and you say that I am stating my opinion? Ok, better ignore you. There are smart people here who can understand.

 

[Night Hunter]

David Cage himself said that and you say that I am stating my opinion? Ok, better ignore you. There are smart people here who can understand.

Your opinion is not the fact that David cage stated that they are gonna make a new engine, your opinion is that you (think to) know what Naughty Dog did or did not do with theirs and how optimized it is and that they need a new one or the jump to their next game wont be big and bla bla bla. When in fact, you don't know anything about these things.

And you aren't even wrong on some level, but no one here knows what that process will entail. But the only one claiming to know some big secret is you.

fake edit: but you know what. fuck this "conversation". I got better shit to do.

 

[Moosichu]

"In a meaty video interview with Rev3Games, David Cage, Founder and CEO of Quantic Dream, revealed a stunning new detail: the breathtaking The Dark Sorcerer tech demonstration is merely a PlayStation 4 port of Beyond: Two Souls engine, and not the “real” PS4 engine they’re going to use."


David Cage himself said that and you say that I am stating my opinion? Ok, better ignore you. There are smart people here who can understand.

Sorry Plastica-Man, but their PS4 engine will be derived and further optimised from the Beyond one, not written from scratch. All they are saying is that the Dark Sorcerer is a quick port of it. Once the engine is ported over, they optimize and rewrite the necessary parts of it. UE4 most very likely contains some UE3 code as well.

Interestingly, David Cage claims a new engine was written from scratch IN BETWEEN Heavy Rain and Beyond Two Souls. I can see why you got confused though:

We were pretty happy with the Heavy Rain engine but we thought we could go further so we started everything from scratch and developed this new engine which was inspired by what we discovered on PlayStation.

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/what-beyond-two-souls-reveals-about-the-ps4-1188700

However, whenever dev's say 'from scratch' 99% of the time, they mean 'some important bits changed but derived from what we already had'.

 

[filopilo]

Absolutely right. I mean Quantic Dream has a clear history of their games not reaching the visual quality of the tech demos they show before. Why should we believe them now. Wait ...

Just stating the facts.No lalaland PR mythology.
And perfectly compatible with your statement (that agree their game will probably look better).

I don't have time to argue with impolite rude people like you:


The Dark Sorcerer tech demonstration is merely a PlayStation 4 port of Beyond: Two Souls engine, and not the “real” PS4 engine they’re going to use. If that is true, then I absolutely cannot wait to see what they’ll come up with when they will finally tailor the engine to fully use the power of PlayStation 4."

Tha'ts about right , but not really meaningfull when you understand developpement outside of PR field (meaning: in the real wolrd)

 

[Night Hunter]

Just stating the facts.No lalaland PR mythology.
And perfectly compatible with your statement (that agree their game will probably look better).

Sorry, didn't mean to go off on you. Was just already fired up and remembered the Dark Sorcerer threads from a while back where quite a few people claimed we won't see anything like this.

 

[Sorc3r3r]

So I'm the only one who isn't even a little bit shocked by these graphics?

No.
I wanted and expected this.

But not this soon and not at 60 fps to be honest.

 

[Sid]

The Lead Programmer at Naughty Dog agrees with you:

Wow! at 1080p and 60 FPS too.

 

[dragonbane]

yeah ,on the title screen.And the really interactive part is just a short part with the gobelin (specifically optimized runtime/dataset).
Most of the rest wouldn't run at what we can call interactive frame rate.Smartly done but not entirely honest.

Stop. Their history is entirely speaking for them and they already said their next game is going to look a lot better than Sorcerer.

Engine Talk

Keep in mind that Cage only talks about the renderer here. He also said that Beyond used a completely new engine and looking at the file structure, no, it doesn't. At least that part of the engine is entirely copied over from Heavy Rain. Writing an engine from scratch is way too time consuming these days, so there are always parts that just get adapted. So what Cage means is that the renderer and pipeline will get adapted to the PS4 hardware including new features. Saying it's a "new engine" is easier to understand and sells better, which Cage obviously has an interest in doing. Dark Sorcerer was running indeed on a straight port of the PS3 engine. The PS4 engine will be an evolution of the PS3 one, not dedicated and entirely new. Maybe they write more stuff from scratch than ND, maybe not. But they are not throwing everything away here.

 

[JJD]

However, whenever dev's say 'from scratch' 99% of the time, they mean 'some important bits changed but derived from what we already had'.

Lol, remember when Bethesda said Skyrim was running on a completely new engine?

Same thing with Frostbyte 2 and 3 from Dice/EA. Plastic guy really don't know what he is talking about.

 

[Tekniqs]

oh my days! that's incredible

 

[valkyre]

Better than the E3 trailer??!

Seriously has Team ICE created coding magic or what? This sounds to me completely revolutionary if true... I mean I cant even desscribe how insane this sounds...

Naughty Gods...

 

[CozMick]

I've never seen so much salty bullshit in a single thread in all my years on GAF.

Its real folks. Time to suck it up and start believing.

 

[R_Deckard]

Since I don't know where to put this pic, I decided to put it here to reduce the heat in this thread, lol

The Legend Will Return " One Last Time "

 

[Phlebas]

I've never seen so much salty bullshit in a single thread in all my years on GAF.

Its real folks. Time to suck it up and start believing.

I started making it a habit to check user post histories after threads like these.

Its enlightening to say the least.

 

[Hastati]

Wow! at 1080p and 60 FPS too.

I feel like with Uncharted and adventure games in particular, it would be okay to drop down to 30 fps for an increase in graphical fidelity, but maybe I'm in the minority? I actually was blown away by their E3 trailer, so I certainly won't complain if they shoot for 60.

Just curious what cutting the framerate in half could produce (or maybe it wouldn't make a noticeable difference).

 

[flipswitch]

ND said that Drake has more than twice the amount of polygons than Joel (30k polygons) from TLOU, but Nate UC4 looks extremely detailed without any of that polygon "blockyness", even up close everything is nicely rounded.


What I'm saying is it looks more than 60-70k

 

[nOoblet16]

Because, their engine can , in its basics, cane be scaled to the max to reach such level of details, just like the Beyond Two Souls engine with Dark Sorcerer. But both engines will have their limitations one day if they continue using them. The same is for UE3, which can be sacled to the max and the Batman Arkham Knight is the maximum result you can get with it, but it will always lack the features UE4 has and will never look as good as what a random normal person can do with UE4. For example Unchrated 5 won't be a big jump from the 4th one if they keep using their same old engine. That is why Quantic Dream opted for a new PS4 dedicated engine rather than continue using the PS3 engine (very audacious from their part, like how they risk and try new ways of playing).

I feel like you might not understand the process of development of an engine, these days naming an engine is only trivial and useful for marketing purpose because it's an ever evolving piece of software. It changes every day. The difference between UE3 to UE4 is just as much about the user tools as it is about the feature set and ability of the engine. UE4 was developed over UE3 rather than rewritten from scratch. You think that CE3 was completely rewritten after CE2? or the new Cry Engine was a complete rewrite from CE3 and CE2 because the new engine does not seem to suffer from CE2's limitations. It's be madness to do something like that when they can effectively improve upon the existing tech.

Also you are wrong when you say that any random normal person can do better with UE4 than Arkham Knight. Have a look at Daylight, the first UE4 game, how it looks and how it runs and compare it to Outlast which is UE3 and runs at 1080p 60FPS and looks better too...Arkham Knight in a league of its own.

Here, Sweeney himself said that it was not written from scratch.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...ney_lays_out_the_case_for_Unreal_Engine_4.php

ND said that Drake has more than twice the amount of polygons than Joel (30k polygons) from TLOU, but Nate UC4 looks extremely detailed without any of that polygon "blockyness", even up close everything is nicely rounded.


What I'm saying is it looks more than 60-70k

Nate in UC3 was about 40k anyway, so it's very well possible for him to be around 80-100k in UC4.

 

[flipswitch]

Speaking of game engines, rushy ( evo games DC director) said that DriveClub's engine was created from scratch in one of the e3 interviews ( think it was IGN). I understand this is not always the case.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

ND said that Drake has more than twice the amount of polygons than Joel (30k polygons) from TLOU, but Nate UC4 looks extremely detailed without any of that polygon "blockyness", even up close everything is nicely rounded.


What I'm saying is it looks more than 60-70k

Joel wasn't exactly a blocky mess in TLOU. Double that and add a modern tesselation scheme to the pipeline and the smoothness you see in the trailer isn't unthinkable.

 

[flipswitch]

Interesting article from a couple of years ago, " What Uncharted 4′s million polygon characters will look like


http://www.officialplaystationmagazine.co.uk/2012/01/25/uncharted-4-ps3-is-this-how-it-will-look/

 

[Raitosaito]

Lol, remember when Bethesda said Skyrim was running on a completely new engine?

Same thing with Frostbyte 2 and 3 from Dice/EA. Plastic guy really don't know what he is talking about.

They said the watch dogs engine was built from the ground up for watch dogs and next gen, with barely any anvil code. All npcs in watch dogs fucking look like Assasin Creed npcs, and the stealth notification for the enemies are the same. It was basically anvil.

 

[GarciaHotspur]

Guys the 1080p60fps is not confirmed yet ! be careful with that !

they are " targetting " the 60fps ! We will see if they are going to reach it ( i really hope so ! )

 

[Liamario]

Guys the 1080p60fps is not confirmed yet ! be careful with that !

they are " targetting " the 60fps ! We will see if they are going to reach it ( i really hope so ! )

You're making it sound like they are hoping to get there rather than having 60fps as goal. The trailer they showed is available in 60fps, so I think it's more likely that they are likely to get it and are using the word targeting in the unlikely event they don't reach that goal.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Guys the 1080p60fps is not confirmed yet ! be careful with that !

they are " targetting " the 60fps ! We will see if they are going to reach it ( i really hope so ! )

The trailer we have is 60FPS. So that's what we are talking about.

 

[nOoblet16]

They said the watch dogs engine was built from the ground up for watch dogs and next gen, with barely any anvil code. All npcs in watch dogs fucking look like Assasin Creed npcs, and the stealth notification for the enemies are the same. It was basically anvil.

Having same GUI and "look" does not mean it has the same engine though because these are not limited to a specific engine.

 

[JaseC]

They said the watch dogs engine was built from the ground up for watch dogs and next gen, with barely any anvil code. All npcs in watch dogs fucking look like Assasin Creed npcs, and the stealth notification for the enemies are the same. It was basically anvil.

It was built from the ground up... using existing parts.

... or the as-yet-untitled tech running Ubisoft's Watch Dogs (an engine built from elements of AnvilNext, the Assassin's Creed 3 Engine; Dunia, the engine powering Far Cry 2 and the upcoming Far Cry 3; and Lead, the Unreal Engine 2-derived tech behind Splinter Cell: Conviction) ...

Disrupt is basically the offspring of all of Ubi's other open-world engines... and Lead.

 

[Night Hunter]

Man, whatever this game is going to look like when it comes out, the crow population will most definitely take a huge hit.

 

[nOoblet16]

It was built from the ground up... using existing parts.



Disrupt is basically the offspring of all of Ubi's other open-world engines... and Lead.

And isn't Lead engine basically Ubisoft's version of UE2.5?
This pretty much proves my point that Engine naming is trivial and only really useful for marketing purpose.

 

[thekiddfran]

Why is it so hard for people to believe the finished game will not look like this? Are all the salty posters AAA game developers themselves or just talking out their ass?

 

[DieH@rd]

Do people still not believe this? If Dead Rising 3 could do this on the Xbox One with prerelease hardware in a game that obviously did not prioritize graphics and was made by a studio that isn't anywhere as talented as Naughty Dog, I don't see why this trailer being real game footage is unbelievable.

Directfeed screenshots:
http://abload.de/img/xrdwc.jpg
http://abload.de/img/u8f19.jpg
http://abload.de/img/9xelc.jpg

 

[DarkLordMalik]

New engine or reused engine, it doesn't matter much to me. As long as the game looks good, all is well. I mean Uncharted looks fucking amazing to me. Ryse looked great as well, and it was on Cry Engine 3.5. I'd go on and say that Ryse looked better than Crysis 3 despite being on the same engine. (Please don't take this point the wrong way, Crysis 3 had unlimited resources on PC anyways and Ryse was on a limited hardware)

The point is that devs can't completely throw away their old code. They can always keep updating it, which means they will keep adding new stuff to the engine, replacing the old one, making it better as time passes. I am still surprised that Rocksteady Studios managed to look Arkham City so good, despite being on Unreal Engine 3.

Ready at Dawn are using their own in-house engine, that they have been working of for god knows how many years. We have all seen the result of their work in The Order: 1886 and it looks great. The age of the engine matters the least, the capability of the devs to work with it matters the most. As long as they can remove some of the ancient stuff, and keep the rendering pipeline up-to-date, it can work well for them.

Directfeed screenshots:
http://abload.de/img/xrdwc.jpg
http://abload.de/img/u8f19.jpg
http://abload.de/img/9xelc.jpg