Thanks for the explanation , I thought it works like the bolded part. i will keep this info in mind for the future
Digital Foundry PS4 Pro Launch Coverage Begins
- Thread starter Jonboy
- Start date
Thanks for the explanation , I thought it works like the bolded part. i will keep this info in mind for the future
LordOfChaos
Member
To be fair, OP should add Richard was speculating based on the lower than even SATA II speeds on the PS4, it didn't sound like he's definitively saying they tested the PS4 Pro to be that slow.
If the limit was the ARM IO chip, I wonder if they beefed that up for instance.
They probably call it upscaling because it is still a method to end up with more pixels than what you actually render but it creates confusion because people are used to think about upscaling as a technique that starts from a full resolution picture as a basis and here it's not the case.
Checkerboard should be called a reconstruction technique rather than an upscaling technique to avoid confusion.
LordOfChaos
Member
Also, one of the previous videos noted Richard lost an extended family member recently, didn't it?
Maybe a little more understanding here...He probably had a stressful time there, and then it's like
"Unboxings are inane"
"Richard, go unbox that thing on video"
"...Fuck".
Maybe a little more understanding here...He probably had a stressful time there, and then it's like
"Unboxings are inane"
"Richard, go unbox that thing on video"
"...Fuck".
LOL yeah I noticed the facial expressions that said they didn't really agree on a few things
MisterXDTV
Member
Exactly, that's a big difference because pixels are still mapped 1:1, you are not "spreading" fewer pixels to a higher resolution
vpance
Member
Master and apprentice.
Which displays currently support this? The HDMI spec shouldn't allow that so it would surprise me.
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/hdmi_2_0_faq.aspx
According to every chart I've viewed/spec sheet I've read, including the official HDMI specs, this is the current situation. 18gbps gets you 10 or 12-bit color with 4:2:0 chroma subsampling. 10-bit RGB requires greater than 18gbps.
I have tested a LOT of displays including the Sony ZD9 and various LG OLED TVs (I own a B6 myself) and this chart is 100% consistent with my findings. Not one of these was able to output 10 or 12-bit color using RGB due to this limitation. If you wanted to use the higher bit depth, you were forced down to 4:2:0. RGB is only available in 8-bit color in HDMI 2.0.
TetraGenesis
Member
HAHAHAHAHAHA so glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.
voodoowoolf
Neo Member
a
Why would that have anything to do with the arm chip?
LordOfChaos
Member
It's thought the PS4 custom southbridge has all IO routed through it and contains the ARM trustzone processor. As a low performance processor it's perhaps the reason why PS4s hard drive throughput is below where we'd expect even from SATA II.
Beyond that it's thought that the ARM chip was so underpowered, rest mode doesn't work as well as they expected and they need to keep the APU partially on even for downloads.
Remembering that, I wonder if the Pro fixes that too.
potatohead
Member
Yeah that would be sick
Yep! but I think it's too big of a game to be 4K only on one console so if it does happen it will be when Scorpio comes out so it can be 4K on both consoles & not boosting sells for just the PS4 Pro.
PeterLegend
Member
Sony and Rockstar are homies though.
This ain't a Kevin Durant Russell Westbrook relationship
This ain't a Kevin Durant Russell Westbrook relationship
Even performance boosts would be awesome.
Obscuritas
Member
The fact is, GTAV doesn't need any upgrade to sell copies/maintain the online userbase.
Undead Fantasy
Member
No reason for me to get a Pro then.
Kralamoonard
Member
Haha, glad I'm not the only one who noticed that Richard was being way too hard on that poor guy lol. Ordering him around near the start, and then flat out interrupting him and being blunt later on. Felt so bad for Tom lol...
You were buying the pro on the assumption that unpatched games would runs smoother because of the CPU?
Unknown?
Member
Lol so every upcoming game in the next few years doesn't matter?
thelastword
Banned
This is my 4k set, it does 4k 60fps/4:4:4 with HDR.
A Hisense H8C, I presume? You probably got that from RTINGS, I'm guessing.
Here's the thing, that column listing 4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + HDR does not actually state 10 or 12-bit color.
I know for a fact you can send HDR to a TV in 4K60 4:4:4/RGB but it won't actually be 10-bit. I've done this before and the results are pretty reasonable but you will see additional color banding in many areas of the image. Shadow Warrior 2 on the PC is a good test for this as you can use HDR in 8, 10 or 12-bits per channel but in 8-bit there is additional color banding.
Every single piece of material out there indicates that HDMI 2.0 does not support 10 or 12-bits per channel at 4:4:4 4K60. Display Port has the bandwidth for this but doesn't yet support HDR metadata nor is it available on any consumer 4K TV that I'm aware of.
So RTINGS also scores the LG B6 OLED TV, which is what I own, and includes...
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + HDR - 38.2 ms
Yet I know for certain that the display does not not do this in 10 or 12-bit color. It will do 4:4:4 + HDR in 8-bit color but that isn't really useful.
I've tested a number of other TVs on that list as well which RTINGS also scores in that column. Not one of them supports 10 or 12-bit 4:4:4.
I do suspect some of these displays ultimately have the muscle to pull this off but are limited by the HDMI standard itself. HDMI 2.0 is the problem.
Here's the thing, that column listing 4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + HDR does not actually state 10 or 12-bit color.
I know for a fact you can send HDR to a TV in 4K60 4:4:4/RGB but it won't actually be 10-bit. I've done this before and the results are pretty reasonable but you will see additional color banding in many areas of the image. Shadow Warrior 2 on the PC is a good test for this as you can use HDR in 8, 10 or 12-bits per channel but in 8-bit there is additional color banding.
Every single piece of material out there indicates that HDMI 2.0 does not support 10 or 12-bits per channel at 4:4:4 4K60. Display Port has the bandwidth for this but doesn't yet support HDR metadata nor is it available on any consumer 4K TV that I'm aware of.
So RTINGS also scores the LG B6 OLED TV, which is what I own, and includes...
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + HDR - 38.2 ms
Yet I know for certain that the display does not not do this in 10 or 12-bit color. It will do 4:4:4 + HDR in 8-bit color but that isn't really useful.
I've tested a number of other TVs on that list as well which RTINGS also scores in that column. Not one of them supports 10 or 12-bit 4:4:4.
I do suspect some of these displays ultimately have the muscle to pull this off but are limited by the HDMI standard itself. HDMI 2.0 is the problem.
I think people should look at the small benefits that Xbox One games are getting when played on Xbox One S vs the big benefits PS4 games are getting when they are patched for PS4 Pro.
Undead Fantasy
Member
Yes, a small performance boost without a patch would eventually made me buy it.
I really don't care for 4K gaming so it's pointless to waste +400 dollars on this now.
kikonawa
Member
But a small speed bump would make it worth it?
Undead Fantasy
Member
So small performance boost to some games that have unlocked frame rates is worth $400 but the benefits that the patched games & all future games are getting isn't worth $400?
Compare the Titanfall 2 PS4 Pro screenshot to an XB1S screenshot. There's a difference.
Go look at the actual performance boost that some games got & look at what some games are getting from the Pro patch.
That's odd. While it's true that other non-Pro games won't necessarily benefit, pretty much everything going forward will support this new system.
Barely and only in very select games.
What the Pro offers is significant different and better.
Monday.
Did not see the point in a new thread:
Here is Eurogamer's PS4 Pro games list, specs comparison page like a little PS4 Pro FAQ. Very informative.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-11-04-ps4-pro-games-list-specs-comparison
Here is Eurogamer's PS4 Pro games list, specs comparison page like a little PS4 Pro FAQ. Very informative.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-11-04-ps4-pro-games-list-specs-comparison
Undead Fantasy
Member
I don't care for performance boost that needs a patch.
samueljustice00
Member
This was my thinking constantly, I held off buying a 4K TV because there are going to be updated sets next year. But this is tech, every year something new comes out and every year we're told to wait. So fuck it, went and ordered a new TVI hope it won't be until 2020 that we can have such TVs.
gundamkyoukai
Member
After this year most games won't need a patch anyway since it will be build in .
You are saying that having 3 to 5 fps jump on certain games on X1S was worth it .
While pro going to have much more than that on some old games and all the new ones not worth it .
I wish we could find out what that was about. For now I have to imagine the younger guy pitched the unboxing idea and Leadbetter was against it.
That's not actually a DF piece, I should note.
I think the PS4 Pro may not be for you unfortunately. if I understand the performance boosts were not intentional and not even really patches but a side effect of the CPU high clock rate.
Per DF:
Could be something they (Sony) implements down the line? But 7.1% increase is not enough for me to outweigh the overall benefits in visual and resolution benefits. I'm not a graphics specialist but am planning to purchase a 4K TV and only play on PlayStation devices so it fits my needs perfectly.
Maybe wait for Scorpio?
Apologies and Touche. Are DF and Eurogamer not one in the same or connected in some way?
Edit: I see. I will be more specific next time. Digital Foundry = In-depth technical analysis of games and gaming hardware at Eurogamer.net.
Weyland Y.
Member
So you'll never play any new games with Pro patches going forward but only want to play unpatched old games with a very small performance boost?
That's...an interesting approach?
Thanks, I'll have a long read of that. I think it's actually a Eurogamer article rather than a DF article though as it's by Matthew Reynolds.
EDIT:
As mentioned by somebody who would know far more about DF stuff than me.
In few games, not in every game.
Yeah that 3 fps increase is pretty great.
The only real upgrade on the XB1S is HDR, but you wouldn't care about real upgrades, would you?