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[metalslimer]

Does poligaf agree with this?

(Maggie has been covering Donald for NYT)

I mean I guess ultimately I agree. She had a huge platform with lots of ideas, but she never really narrowed it down to have a concise message. Ultimately, even if she did have one I don't think it would have swung the midwestern states she lost. The most shocking thing I guess the camapaign didn't realize was that they convinced people that Trump was not qualified for the job, but those people voted for him anyway.

 

[VendettaRed07]

More proves the point of giving up on gun control.

If it has to happen then I don't know. Fighting it isn't worth what it costs

 

[Crocodile]

Scary Thought: We have to sit through another presidential campaign season with Trump in 2020. FUCK ME.

Never ever ever wanna be criticized for bedwetting again.

Fuck this I'm lit.

Let's fucking do this. 2018 and 2020 baby.

LETS FUCKING GO.

Yeah if I still live in a swing state in 2018 I'm def going all in on volunteering and such

 

[plagiarize]

If Jeb/Rubio/Kasich took office after a normal campaign I doubt they get rid of the ACA, really try to overturn Roe, etc.

That's why, for as annoying as they are, the GOP establishment aren't that bad to deal with. They mostly pander on a plethora of issues while only caring about their tax cut fantasies.

The Tea Party is effectively in control of the White House and anything is on the table.

I never felt like this during the Bush Jr years, not for a minute. So I can happily cosign that.

But hearing Paul Ryan tell it, congress are going to aim to have an ACA killing bill on Trump's desk the day after his inauguration.

 

[sazzy]

Josh Nelson
‏@SSS_joshnelson
Updated poll numbers

231,556,622 eligible voters

46.9% didn't vote
25.6% voted for Clinton
25.5% voted for Trump
1.7% voted for Johnson

 

[B-Dubs]

Does poligaf agree with this?

(Maggie has been covering Donald for NYT)

I'd buy this if she didn't just win the popular vote. Had she lost wholesale I'd be right there with her. Her issue was the vote wasn't spread out enough, that it was too concentrated. She needed to spend all her time in the rust belt and she didn't. The issue is all the numbers said those states were safe and others were in play and as a result she didn't. This was a loss of hubris. Of not taking the easy 270 and trying to expand the map too soon.

 

[RastaMentality]

if the shortlist happens...
Rudy Giuliani is succeeding Loretta Lynch.

"Black lives matter is a terrorist organization" is succeeding our first black female AG.

National stop and frisk is succeeding our first black female AG.

Black rights are getting fucking gutted. there's no turning back now. i thought people were being overdramatic about minority rights but we're absolutely fucked.

 

[Retromelon]

Edit:

Had no idea he requested a ban. Hope he is ok and decides to come back. Donald is not worth it.

Long time no see melkr, what's good fam

The immediate worst thing about this election so far has been the loss of so many friends you got to know from months talking to

 

[excelsiorlef]

Take away is Government obstruction works.. for the right.

They played keep away and got rewarded.

 

[sphagnum]

I expect to hear about Bernie Sanders for the next two years.

Then they'll mount a coup and implant our very own Jeremy Corbyn in charge of the opposition party, and he'll start preparing for a Mondale-level walloping, but at least the white liberals will be able to say the only reason he lost is that people of color didn't support the movement enough.

Or we'll get another Bill Clinton, driving a jeep along the Mexican border with a rifle to prove that he's just as harsh on minorities as the Republicans.

Those seem to be the ideas that white liberals have for how to advance the party now.

Who do you think would be a genuinely good option, or if nobody in particular, what sort of candidate do you think will get the blue wall back? I can't think of anyone Obama-like.

 

[Pixieking]

Scary Thought: We have to sit through another presidential campaign season with Trump in 2020. FUCK ME.



Yeah if I still live in a swing state in 2018 I'm def going all in on volunteering and such

Gooooooood! People need to channel the anger and sadness into something worthwhile, rather than just moping (no offense). I'm as depressed as anyone here, but if I were in the States I would legit ring up DNC headquarters and do something.

Also, Trump ain't gonna be running in 2020 - Cruz probably will, but not Trump. I'm guessing he's already bored and confused.

 

[Y2Kev]

Fight Song is totally ruined forever

 

[TheAbsolution]

.
Keep in touch with them, will ya?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Long time no see melkr, what's good fam

The immediate worst thing about this election so far has been the loss of so many friends you got to know from months talking to

Yep.

I'm not gonna lie I came close to quitting myself.

But I slept... I feel awful but I can't run away.

I made some adjustments... blocked facebook trending... I'll avoid OT politics (I will not be fighting the fight like I have before there) but I'll stay here... for now anyway.

I said this in BCT and I'll say it here some of y'all are like family to me and I love you all.

 

[thepotatoman]

Fuck. I'm still just trying to digest his win. We are in so much trouble. If I knew Hillary was going to lose i really wished it would have been to Jeb or Marco.

Trump is going to rape this country.

The Democratic Party has been shut out for 10 years from doing anything meaningful I think. I'm so upset.

If democrats rebound fast, they could win local governments in 2018 and 2020, redraw the districts, and regain complete control by 2023. And if Kennedy and the rest of the liberal justices stick around 4 years, they'll have a relatively moderate SCOTUS to work with too.

So if everything goes right, in 6 years they can undo anything republicans do over the next 4 years.

 

[pigeon]

Who do you think would be a genuinely good option, or if nobody in particular, what sort of candidate do you think will get the blue wall back? I can't think of anyone Obama-like.

I had this conversation with Crab.

It is not clear to me that there is a democratic way to ensure the safety of people of color in America.

 

[Black Mamba]

This article is scary.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/9/13572172/donald-trump-white-working-class

Mostly because in the end they'll still vote for him again.



The amount of pain coming to the poor and lower middle class is going to be staggering.

 

[plagiarize]

I expect to hear about Bernie Sanders for the next two years.

Then they'll mount a coup and implant our very own Jeremy Corbyn in charge of the opposition party, and he'll start preparing for a Mondale-level walloping, but at least the white liberals will be able to say the only reason he lost is that people of color didn't support the movement enough.

Or we'll get another Bill Clinton, driving a jeep along the Mexican border with a rifle to prove that he's just as harsh on minorities as the Republicans.

Those seem to be the ideas that white liberals have for how to advance the party now.

Realistically, can the GOP turn around the demographic trends that are slowly sending states like Texas blue? I know they can't save rural America, but whether that becomes painfully obvious in two or four years is hard to say.

At some point, it still flips.

God, the Corbyn esque 'it shouldn't be about winning' is starting to sound good even to me. But nationalism won't ever sound good. Bringing back manufacturing is a dream or a lie depending on how you want to look at it... and we need to steer very clear of the anti Semitism that leaked into the Labour party.

 

[Crocodile]

Does poligaf agree with this?

(Maggie has been covering Donald for NYT)

I agree she would be better at the job than she was running for it

 

[Diablos]

If democrats rebound fast, they could win local governments in 2018 and 2020, redraw the districts, and regain complete control by 2023. And if Kennedy and the rest of the liberal justices stick around 4 years, they'll have a relatively moderate SCOTUS to work with too.

So if everything goes right, in 6 years they can undo anything republicans do over the next 4 years.

This is quite a long shot.

 

[plagiarize]

If democrats rebound fast, they could win local governments in 2018 and 2020, redraw the districts, and regain complete control by 2023. And if Kennedy and the rest of the liberal justices stick around 4 years, they'll have a relatively moderate SCOTUS to work with too.

So if everything goes right, in 6 years they can undo anything republicans do over the next 4 years.

That's a big if.

If things went even slightly better yesterday we wouldn't be here.

 

[thehypocrite]

So basically you are saying that every candidate that loses is bad, and every one that wins is good. I don't think things are quite that simple, and I don't see how calling her a bad candidate for barely missing here helps us move forwards, but if you want to define it that way, fair enough.

By that metric: Bernie Sanders was a bad candidate.

Has me saying that helped us any? I don't think so. I don't think he was a bad candidate. I would have supported him in the general whole heartedly. Maybe I'd be here today, presuming he lost, saying 'if only we'd picked Clinton'. We'll never know.

Not really. I posted before why Hillary was bad and how the trends were there all along. Her opponents (Obama, Sanders, Trump) outperformed the polls against her in the Battleground states, because a lot of independent voters (Inference) in these areas don't connect with her and see her as an avatar of the things that have impacted their livelihood negatively (Trade, Status quo, elites, DC pork barrel politics).

Thus, if we accept the prior to be truth, she was a bad candidate because on the actual states up for grabs Sanders would have outperformed her during the general election and provided the win (Thesis) for the democrats.

Also, she had no clear political message. I'm with her is a slap on the face of many people whose lives aren't as rosy and makes the election about Hillary instead of the reality they see in their communities. Fucking #MAGA on the other hand is also better.

 

[pigeon]

Realistically, can the GOP turn around the demographic trends that are slowly sending states like Texas blue?

Easily.

They just have to deport a bunch of people of color, terrorize a bunch of others, threaten a bunch of people's lives, make it impossible to immigrate here and inviting to emigrate away. All the stuff that Trump campaigned on doing!

White people saw that they were becoming a minority in America.

They elected a candidate who promised to fix that.

It will not be hard for him to do so.

 

[RustyNails]

Just realized a couple of things.

Russia and Iran and bffs. So I dont see Trump being aggressive toward Iran militarily.

We should caution ourselves right now. We thought he cant get the nomination. He did. We thought we cant win a debate. He won (gop debates). We thought he cant win a primary. He did. Nomination. Presidential debate. Scandals. Election. And now we are saying he will lose 2020.

 

[sphagnum]

I had this conversation with Crab.

It is not clear to me that there is a democratic way to ensure the safety of people of color in America.

I'm not sure there is either. But TBH the Freikorps would slaughter us all (POC, leftists, gays, etc) if it came to war. They have the culture of guns and huge numbers.

 

[Pixieking]

If democrats rebound fast, they could win local governments in 2018 and 2020, redraw the districts, and regain complete control by 2023. And if Kennedy and the rest of the liberal justices stick around 4 years, they'll have a relatively moderate SCOTUS to work with too.

So if everything goes right, in 6 years they can undo anything republicans do over the next 4 years.

Yeah, as Diablos says, it's a long shot. But it's worth pushing for. It's worth pouring your heart into, because it's right, and it's just.

Just realized a couple of things.

Russia and Iran and bffs. So I dont see Trump being aggressive toward Iran militarily.

We should caution ourselves right now. We thought he cant get the nomination. He did. We thought we cant win a debate. He won (gop debates). We thought he cant win a primary. He did. Nomination. Presidential debate. Scandals. Election. And now we are saying he will lose 2020.

He won't be running 2020. Whether Dems will win, who knows, but Trump won't run then. He doesn't want the job now.

 

[Officerrob]

if the shortlist happens...
Rudy Giuliani is succeeding Loretta Lynch.

"Black lives matter is a terrorist organization" is succeeding our first black female AG.

National stop and frisk is succeeding our first black female AG.

Black rights are getting fucking gutted. there's no turning back now. i thought people were being overdramatic about minority rights but we're absolutely fucked.

Yet Trump got more black votes than Romney...

 

[Fedelias]

If democrats rebound fast, they could win local governments in 2018 and 2020, redraw the districts, and regain complete control by 2023. And if Kennedy and the rest of the liberal justices stick around 4 years, they'll have a relatively moderate SCOTUS to work with too.

So if everything goes right, in 6 years they can undo anything republicans do over the next 4 years.

This is lightning in a bottle type stuff but so was what happened last night honestly. We're truly in uncharted territory.

 

[QuiteWhittle]

This is quite a long shot.

Yep, reverse 2010/2014 isn't going to happen. The "Democratic coalition" is just going to stay home again while the white working class turnout to help their messiah.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

Ugh. I hate this but I'm starting to think that HRC '08 with Obama as VP would've been the best timeline / order of operations.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Hillary may have been a bad candidate, but she was going against the worst candidate in decades.

Well, apparently not!

Dems need to internalize the "Dems fall in love, Repubs fall in line" maxim because, quite frankly, it's true and is going to stay true. Hillary, Kerry, Gore, Dukakis, Mondale. Every time we nominate a dull, insider, policy wonk-type candidate, we lose. Young, charismatic, outsider, aspirational, and eloquent is what gets Dems the White House, and by extension the down ticket.

2020 cannot be "Let's nominate Tim Kaine", point blank.

 

[Kusagari]

2020 is likely going to truly be the most important election of our lifetime now. If everything goes good with the SC, Trump might only get to replace Scalia and possibly Thomas.

If we can at least get the presidency back then we can blunt the SC shifting for our lifetime. Because I doubt RBG and Kennedy have 8 years left in them.

 

[ampere]

Josh Nelson
‏@SSS_joshnelson
Updated poll numbers

231,556,622 eligible voters

46.9% didn't vote
25.6% voted for Clinton
25.5% voted for Trump
1.7% voted for Johnson

Makes me feel sick to my stomach

 

[Retromelon]

Yep.

I'm not gonna lie I came close to quitting myself.

But I slept... I feel awful but I can't run away.

I made some adjustments... blocked facebook trending... I'll avoid OT politics (I will not be fighting the fight like I have before there) but I'll stay here... for now anyway.

I said this in BCT and I'll say it here some of y'all are like family to me and I love you all.

That's the spirit. One foot in front of the other, stiff upper lip, silver linings, some more cliches to try to ease the pain of the wound. We must persevere

 

[Black Mamba]

Easily.

They just have to deport a bunch of people of color, terrorize a bunch of others, threaten a bunch of people's lives, make it impossible to immigrate here and inviting to emigrate away. All the stuff that Trump campaigned on doing!

White people saw that they were becoming a minority in America.

They elected a candidate who promised to fix that.

It will not be hard for him to do so.

As the supreme court will allow it.

And voter id laws.

Until the govt is flipped again ala 2008, this is the new normal.

The makeup of the senate is killing liberals. We can't overcome montana having as much representation as California. The senate was the only chance for a check and that's gone.

 

[RustyNails]

Does poligaf agree with this?

(Maggie has been covering Donald for NYT)

No. Noonan is an idiot. This is press and media blaming Hillary for their role in legitimizing the fascist and chasing nothing burger of an email story all fucking year long. Serioualy why would Trump need to buy ads when NYT, Bloberg, WaPo, AP were doing breaking news stories on emailz and clinton foundation? Fuck off maggie.

 

[Valhelm]

Wanting to post something meant for a now-closed Trump thread. I really, really don't like the narrative that everybody who voted for Trump is an open bigot who can never be converted.

Not really interested in pandering to white nationalism.

Writing off nearly 60 million voters as a bunch of irretrievable white supremacists is arrogant, childish, and incredibly dangerous. Trump won 33% of the Hispanic vote. Many of his supporters elected a black man eight years ago.

We need to recognizie that racism is (1) not an immutable aspect of identity and (2) not necessarily the driving factor behind a vote. There is no dichotomy between racists and non-racists. Essentially all people have some racial prejudice. We can engage with racists just as easily as we can engage with people with other odious views, like Johnson voters who hate welfare or religious bigots who believe gay adoption will lead to more rape. The centrist liberal attitude of viewing racism as an unchangeable blight on one's moral character both ignores why racism exists and offers no solution to change these bigoted views. Moreover, we can't assume that racism is the biggest factor behind a Trump vote. Trump won not because he's a racist but because enough moderate whites looked past his racism. Had Hillary given more specific attention to these casually racist voters, she wouldn't have lost the safe states of Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

We don't need to pander to people with racist views but we need to speak to them and prevent them from supporting the demagogues who approach them. If we don't do this, they'll never change and the Right will win.

Conscious whites have a particular burden to fight race-baiting candidates and challenge the prejudices of their friends and relatives. In 2016, these people didn't do this. Instead, they shared smug New Yorker articles on Facebook and hoped blue collar Boomers in economically depressed areas would just magically come to their senses.

 

[The Technomancer]

Yeah, and they ran behind Hillary.

Everyone I know in Wisconsin thought Russ Feingold had it on lock. He's ridiculously popular to people who support him. Russ on the ticket should have in fact driven turnout for Hillary

It didn't

 

[excelsiorlef]

Just realized a couple of things.

Russia and Iran and bffs. So I dont see Trump being aggressive toward Iran militarily.

We should caution ourselves right now. We thought he cant get the nomination. He did. We thought we cant win a debate. He won (gop debates). We thought he cant win a primary. He did. Nomination. Presidential debate. Scandals. Election. And now we are saying he will lose 2020.

I don;t think he'll lose in 2020.

 

[sazzy]

As the supreme court will allow it.

And voter id laws.

Until the govt is flipped again ala 2008, this is the new normal.

The makeup of the senate is killing liberals. We can't overcome montana having as much representation as California. The senate was the only chance for a check and that's gone.

He won WI by 27,000 votes.

300,000 people affected by voter ID in WI

 

[B-Dubs]

Just realized a couple of things.

Russia and Iran and bffs. So I dont see Trump being aggressive toward Iran militarily.

He might not, but he sure as shit won't do much to rein Israel in.

Ugh. I hate this but I'm starting to think that HRC '08 with Obama as VP would've been the best timeline / order of operations.

Unfortunately you might be right. Obama's probably the only one who could have beaten Trump. Biden might have come close, but it'd be no better than a coin flip and that's not much better than Hillary did.

 

[RustyNails]

He won't be running 2020. Whether Dems will win, who knows, but Trump won't run then. He doesn't want the job now.

This is dumb and based on gut. And farts.

 

[Pixieking]

Yep, reverse 2010/2014 isn't going to happen. The "Democratic coalition" is just going to stay home again while the white working class turnout to help their messiah.

Push them. Connect with them. Get them to realise that if they do nothing, life gets worse for them. These are things that are needed. Dems need the equivalent of the 2nd Amendment - a reason to mobilise each and every mid-term and GE. It should be Roe vs Wade, but that's... messy. So make it something else.

This is dumb and based on gut. And farts.

It's based on feelings. Also, on the photo that showed them all at the point where they'd pretty much sealed it. Trump, bored, confused, dozing off, unsmiling.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yet Trump got more black votes than Romney...

He got less.... just a larger %.... probably because Clinton got less.

 

[Jooney]

Couple of thoughts:

1) Obama needs to make it his mission to rebuild the democratic party. The party is obliterated at all levels and needs real leadership. Bench-building has to begin now but it will be a generational effort.

2) Liberals can't keep reaching to identity politics as the first tool in the kit. It's tonedeaf to the needs of middle America.

 

[pigeon]

I'm not sure there is either. But TBH the Freikorps would slaughter us all (POC, leftists, gays, etc) if it came to war. They have the culture of guns and huge numbers.

This seems like a conversation for Armed Resistance-GAF.

In terms of rabble versus rabble I think the size of the force multipliers today make it pretty even -- that's why guerillas were dominant in warfare for the last twenty years.

Against a military with drones obviously you can't win without drones of your own. Actually even then it's pretty unclear if you can win.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yep, reverse 2010/2014 isn't going to happen. The "Democratic coalition" is just going to stay home again while the white working class turnout to help their messiah.

Democrats managed to mobilize in 2006 to beat back the GOP and Bush's administration.

It's possible.

 

[Grief.exe]

Republicans ultimately came home to roost with one of the biggest pieces of shit in the history of American politics.

many Democrats stayed home because they couldn't vote for a flawed candidate, yet one that held the best interests of the people.

Truly disgusted by America right now.

 

[BiggNife]

I don;t think he'll lose in 2020.

We don't know what the fuck 2020 will be like. And considering he lost the popular vote to an unpopular opponent I don't think we should just assume he'll win again.

 

[Suikoguy]

Wanting to post something meant for a now-closed Trump thread. I really, really don't like the narrative that everybody who voted for Trump is an open bigot who can never be converted.



Trump won 33% of the Hispanic vote. Many of his supporters elected a black man eight years ago.

Where do you get this number, I swear I saw another that only showed that kinda support in FL.