The pacing of Uncharted 4 is just unfortunate

I kinda agree OP. UC4 was my least favorite entry in the series thanks to 0 supernatural twists, reduced action, and those god awful flashback scenes controlling teen Nate. I like how some of the encounters were built up as stealth, but I've always thought the combat should be more tightly intertwined with the traversal. As it is now, they're almost always totally separate and it's boring to play that way.
 
And the exploration is pointless. There's nothing of value to find. For instance, in madagascar you can stray away from the main path to look for treasure. But treasures are just collectibles. At least in tomb raider you can interact with the treasure and Lara will say something about it.
Honestly, I don't remember much about any collectibles. I beat it shortly after it came out. I remember the story, a lot of climbing, and the action sequences since they stand out because they're so few and far between.

Tomb Raider is a good example. Well at least the originals. I never cared for them because of
tank controls
and not enough action. I'm not big on heavy exploration and puzzle solving. But that's just me. I assume you're talking about the newer ones. I only played and beat the reboot, but I think that definitely had better pacing than this.
I think that sums up a lot of the attitude behind the dissatisfaction people had with the game. You measure replay value by having more stuff to see or do, and feel that the downtime doesn't counter the lull in the action.

I've always found that measure of replayability to be kind of narrow and even detrimental to games as a whole.
I think I can replay UC2 and even 3 more often because of the good combination of exploration, collectibles, and combat. I'm more of an action-oriented person, myself, but it really all depends on what you want out of a game. I'm not a multiplayer person so I always appreciate any SP experience that offers plenty of replay value.
 
Honestly, I don't remember much about any collectibles. I beat it shortly after it came out. I remember the story, a lot of climbing, and the action sequences since they standout since they're so few and far between.

Tomb Raider is a good example. Well at least the originals. I never cared for them because of
tank controls
and not enough action. I'm not big on heavy exploration and puzzle solving. But that's just me. I assume you're talking about the newer ones. I only played and beat the reboot, but I think I that, too, had better pacing than this.

I think I can replay UC2 and even 3 more often because of the good combination of exploration, collectibles, and combat. I'm more of an action-oriented person, myself, but it really all depends on what you want out of a game. I'm not a multiplayer person so I always appreciate any SP experience that offers plenty of replay value.
I definitely replayed UC2 more than 4, but that's because I tend to replay stuff to experience my favorite parts again, not for collectibles and such. 2 really was the pinnacle of the series; 3 tries to top it (which of course is what a sequel tries to do), but it always tried to go bigger rather than better. One of the best set pieces in 2 wasn't a collapsing building; it was the tense cat and mouse battle with the tank. 4 improved over 3 by not trying to follow in 2's footsteps so much and not being afraid to slow down
 
Personally, I really felt like Uncharted 4 was basically Uncharted 3-2. I didn't feel like it was going back to 2 at all.
 
I definitely replayed UC2 more than 4, but that's because I tend to replay stuff to experience my favorite parts again, not for collectibles and such. 2 really was the pinnacle of the series; 3 tries to top it (which of course is what a sequel tries to do), but it always tried to go bigger rather than better. One of the best set pieces in 2 wasn't a collapsing building; it was the tense cat and mouse battle with the tank. 4 improved over 3 by not trying to follow in 2's footsteps so much and not being afraid to slow down
Slowed down too much. It's like one step forward, two steps back. But it is one of the few games where the story kept me going or I probably would have given up about half way through. I loved the setting, too. Good movie.
 
I personally enjoyed the more slow, intimate story 4 had. It's by far my favorite of the series. 2 is next though and 3 is pretty good too. 1 is archaic in comparison. I really enjoyed the facial animations and play between Sam and Elena. It's amazingly emotional and really kinda hits home that this is probably the last uncharted with them. The epilogue was the icing on the cake. Such a great experience.

Edit - play between Nate and Sam and Nate and Elena. Just in case it wasn't clear.
 
I personally enjoyed the more slow, intimate story 4 had. It's by far my favorite of the series. 2 is next though and 3 is pretty good too. 1 is archaic in comparison. I really enjoyed the facial animations and play between Sam and Elena. It's amazingly emotional and really kinda hits home that this is probably the last uncharted with them. The epilogue was the icing on the cake. Such a great experience.
I'll never understand the hype with the first game. The ending chapters were terrible.
Those creatures or whatever
. Just terrible.
 
I'll never understand the hype with the first game. The ending chapters were terrible.
Those creatures or whatever
. Just terrible.
Yeah, that's when it went off the rails for me, not that I was taking the game all that seriously, but that element seemed weird. It was like they were trying to do something supernatural like Indiana Jones, but kinda missing the point of what made suspension of disbelief in (most of) those films... kinda believable.
 
I didn't like that part on my first playthrough either, but now, especially with the remaster, I find it really fun from a gameplay perspective. It really pushes you to use hip fire more, and to keep moving.
 
But beautiful graphics are not an end to themselves. They are the vehicle on which (ideally) compelling gameplay systems should be layered. So, no, just looking at gorgeously rendered environments is not really that entertaining beyond maybe the first few minutes. And I say this as a graphics whore myself. You're talking about having fantastic icing but with no cake.

Oh, okay. It's not just "downtime", now there's flat out "no cake".

The narrative keeps growing I guess.


Lmao, so I guess I was supposed to be in awe of those cliffs that I scaled for nearly half the game, no wonder it didn't work for me.

maxresdefault.jpg


Just look at the magnitude of what we're looking at here, truly sensational. Why not also mention the insane degree of player control in this screenshot, so many branching paths! It's at a moment like this that you stop and ask yourself...where am I going to go next?

Keep cherry picking, son.


We're in an era when ND games aren't the only games that are visually pleasing or even the top of the industry, and where other games are much more engaging to play. If the only thing that's supposed to make climbing less braindead is
493016of7rgyhio5.jpg


then no.....i'm good fam. Especially because we've seen so much of this stuff before and it's not more engaging in this game.

It's the fourth and final entry of a series that elevated the bar for its genre on multiple occasions.

If you came in expecting it to take all other efforts in the genre to school again, then you're delusional.


Yes, I paid $60 for the sequel of one of my favorite franchises, following up The Last of Us, one of my favorite games of all time, just to validate a negative opinion I already had, because reasons. I was also hyping the game like crazy on GAF and other places before release just to pretend I didn't already have these opinions.

Makes sense.

I wouldn't put it past people on the internet, TBH.
 
I wouldn't put it past people on the internet, TBH.

If you're going into the discussion with this mindset, don't expect people to consider your arguments to be in good faith either.

I absolutely found the downtime overabundant, misplaced and/or insubstantial throughout, but why would try to reach an understanding with you about if you're incapable believing me?
 
More than a decade on, surely you're being facetious.

It's definitely a much better paced game, but that's not surprising because it has better pacing than most modern games. Last of Us definitely wears its RE4 influence proudly, it's just too bad that solid pacing didn't make it's way into UC4.
 
Actually I am very glad they went this route. Slow it down for a better told story and character examination. I hated the nonstop combat areas in some of the previous games. If you want that go play the OT. UC4 is the best in the series thanks to its ability to just give you slow moments. Soak it in.
 
More than a decade on, surely you're being facetious.

There's more encounter variety in that game than UC4. It also had stronger core mechanics that stand up to the scrutiny of higher difficulty levels while UC4 falls to pieces. It has better enemy design as well. And the pacing is intelligently handled for the most part within the core systems of the game. Downtime is quick yet prevalent, making you think about resources without wasting your time.

Decade old games hold my friend if they're good.
 
Actually I am very glad they went this route. Slow it down for a better told story and character examination. I hated the nonstop combat areas in some of the previous games. If you want that go play the OT. UC4 is the best in the series thanks to its ability to just give you slow moments. Soak it in.

You can have slow moments without making them boring.

This thread really illustrates how far shooters have fallen. There was once a time where downtime in shooters consisted of puzzles, actual exploration, platforming, etc. People these days have such low standards that they're convinced every shooter must either be BALLS TO THE WALLS NONSTOP SHOOTBANG or a boring slog full of unskippable cutscenes and 30-minute walking simulator segments, with absolutely nothing in between.
 
For an uncharted game it's boring. The series is supposed to be an edge of your seat adventure. You also shoot things allot. I know this because endless enemy encounter was a problem.

Uncharted4 drops what made it special so that it's a more intimate playthrough. You can feel the influence the last of us has on this with the switch in directors.

Setpieces are a hallmark of the series and 4 fails considerably in that area.

No.. I played the collection right before I played 4 in succession. 4 was about the send off of Nate. His last hurrah. And it was great. I was surprised at how long it was, but ND said don't try and blow through it in one sitting day before it came out. You could do that with any game and it becomes a slog. I took my time with it and had a blast.

Even if it was boring to some, it was still more fun than 80% of the games this gen and in hindsight, I appreciate it even more for not cutting some stuff that could've been cut.

I accept if people don't like it, fine, but you'd be hard pressed to find a better game in the genre this gen.
 
I can't understand the people that stop in the middle of a gorgeous looking landscape you're exploring/climbing and think "gee, what's with all this downtime?".

How are you not entertained ?

There's no meaningful exploration in this game and the climbing is so easy it could be completed by a comatose paraplegic. Good graphics only go so far, especially because unlike great gameplay we all know with certainty that they will be surpassed in years to come.
 
My theory is that it's not that the pacing is so terrible, but that it has some problems and actually feels worse than it is.

I think the pacing feels worse than it is because Sam is such an unremarkable character. The banter between Drake and Sully in UC1 and UC2 is just far more entertaining than the back and forth with Sam in UC4.

As a result, in UC4 the exploration/climbing sequences just don't feel fun because you're always dealing with Sam who's not fun to be around. Time spent with Sully, Elena or Chloe is just more fun in general, regardless of what you're doing.

All this said, UC2 was just thoroughly far more entertaining throughout so there simply weren't issues with pacing. That would have been another route for UC4. I feel like UC4 devotes so much more time to story than 1 & 2, yet I remember more and got more out of the story in 1 & 2 than in 4.
 
Keep cherry picking, son.
That guy wasn't even cherry picking. The climbing simply isn't engaging and we spend more time than any other game in the series climbing, and it's even more immersion breaking here considering instead of doing what they did before with some exposed bricks and less obvious climbable geometry with subtle uses of yellow in cities to direct the player and such they went with the TR school of convenient white paint on random rock faces... And doing a cursory playthrough of all three UC games a couple weeks ago, they've actually made it more magnetic in 4. And not just that, but the other boring stuff is used to absurd degrees, i'm talking pushing crates that in various places of the world, always helping npcs up, rope swinging because instead of vines or old ropes we now carry a rope, etc. what's actually fun about these? Downtime can be engaging, exploring the village in UC2 is more engaging than literally every downtime moment in UC4.

It's the fourth and final entry of a series that elevated the bar for its genre on multiple occasions.

If you came in expecting it to take all other efforts in the genre to school again, then you're delusional.
So I shouldn't expect the final entry to be the best entry in terms of pacing, story structure, etc.?
 
I accept if people don't like it, fine, but you'd be hard pressed to find a better game in the genre this gen.

Better modern action adventure games this gen off the top of my head:
Breath of the Wild, Horizon Zero Dawn, The Last of Us remastered, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Dishonored 2, The Last Guardian, Infamous: second son, Metal Gear Solid 5.
 
You can have slow moments without making them boring.

This thread really illustrates how far shooters have fallen. There was once a time where downtime in shooters consisted of puzzles, actual exploration, platforming, etc. People these days have such low standards that they're convinced every shooter must either be BALLS TO THE WALLS NONSTOP SHOOTBANG or a boring slog full of unskippable cutscenes and 30-minute walking simulator segments, with absolutely nothing in between.

Agree to disagree. Nothing in a TPS has given us the level of storytelling found in UC4. Part of that comes from the immersion of letting you linger with a character or in an environment or not having guns going off. UC4 is probably closer to a walking sim than any of the other UC games but to a lot of people it is the best storytelling because of what that entails.
 
Agree to disagree. Nothing in a TPS has given us the level of storytelling found in UC4. Part of that comes from the immersion of letting you linger with a character or in an environment or not having guns going off. UC4 is probably closer to a walking sim than any of the other UC games but to a lot of people it is the best storytelling because of what that entails.
Uncharted 2 tells a better story while also making really good use of downtime and the quieter moments to characterize the characters. What conversations during the "exploration" of UC4 do you actually remember that elevates it above other games exactly or even lets us learn something pertinent about the characters?
 
Agree to disagree. Nothing in a TPS has given us the level of storytelling found in UC4. Part of that comes from the immersion of letting you linger with a character or in an environment or not having guns going off. UC4 is probably closer to a walking sim than any of the other UC games but to a lot of people it is the best storytelling because of what that entails.
Then why not just make a movie? It would cost less for me enjoy, too. I have nothing against storytelling in games but I'd rather have excellent gameplay and a shit story than an amazing story and boring gameplay. Ideally, we all want the best of everything. In UC4's case, blending in more action would have been welcome, making it a bit more exciting in my opinion.

I will never understand anyone wanting to sacrifice gameplay for a storyline. Never. At least when it comes to video games.
The series is supposed to be an edge of your seat adventure.
This pretty much sums up what I expect from the series. And for the most part, each game up to 4 was like that.
 
I loved Uncharted games but Naughty Dog should be ashamed at how heavily they rely on climbing sequences without changing anything about it after so many games. Outside of combat it's so brain dead it's insulting.
 
2 was the best, 3 was the most uneven (some of the best and the worst moments). 4 never gets bad, but it's just a bit flat and slow overall.

Looking forward to Last of Us 2 anyway. And hope Naughty Dog leave Uncharted behind in favour of a new franchise.
 
I found the pacing of Uncharted 4 to be the best in the series, even if I do consider 2 to be the overall superior game. Uncharted's combat has never been its main selling point, and I think the game makes a point to have its combat segments matter more and spacing them out helps.

The first three games would be too afraid to have any puzzle or platforming portions go on too long without a fight, which honestly kind of cheapens the experience as a whole. It was an awkward "video gamey" design that felt out of place in a series that is clearly trying to reach for more cinematic aspirations.

It's very rare to find a game with shooting as polished as U4 that doesn't center the whole game around that mechanic and that honestly makes me appreciate Naughty Dog's boldness with Uncharted 4 and will ensure it's a game that is more enjoyable to replay in the future compared to say, Uncharted 1.
 
I found the pacing of Uncharted 4 to be the best in the series, even if I do consider 2 to be the overall superior game. Uncharted's combat has never been its main selling point, and I think the game makes a point to have its combat segments matter more and spacing them out helps.

The first three games would be too afraid to have any puzzle or platforming portions go on too long without a fight, which honestly kind of cheapens the experience as a whole. It was an awkward "video gamey" design that felt out of place in a series that is clearly trying to reach for more cinematic aspirations.

It's very rare to find a game with shooting as polished as U4 that doesn't center the whole game around that mechanic and that honestly makes me appreciate Naughty Dog's boldness with Uncharted 4 and will ensure it's a game that is more enjoyable to replay in the future compared to say, Uncharted 1.

I think each of the games is easily replayable. Will I replay Uncharted 4 on Crushing again? No. I would replay a couple sections or do whatever for kicks most likely. I guess in a couple years I could replay it again fully. But I don't even feel the need to replay these games because there are so many games out there nowadays.

And I agree with you that I feel like ND made these decisions knowing some people would dislike them. And I like that. I like that U4 has its own identity and the pacing doesn't bow down to the player who expects gunfight here now or fuck you.

I can agree Uncharted could do with some better platforming for sure and more complex puzzles, but it does what it needs to do for the large fanbase it has.
 
Then why not just make a movie? It would cost less for me enjoy, too. I have nothing against storytelling in games but I'd rather have excellent gameplay and a shit story than an amazing story and boring gameplay. Ideally, we all want the best of everything. In UC4's case, blending in more action would have been welcome, making it a bit more exciting in my opinion.

I will never understand anyone wanting to sacrifice gameplay for a storyline. Never. At least when it comes to video games.

Personally, I'm still waiting for the "amazing story" part.

Instead, I got that bullshit flashback chapter that disregarded what the series was building up to (at least 1 and 2), making the legacy less important as a retcon to set the current story as the real one, that they were destined to go through. Giving Nate
a superhero origin story, with his mother being another superhero, including a garbage convenient as fuck death that put him on his path, and the chosen name being more of a convenience than anything
.

I guess that's my biggest issue with the game, I love me some walking simulators (though I'd imagine Gone Home would also have severe pacing issues if it took me 20 hours), but they need to hook me with their narrative, which didn't happen in Uncharted 4. Hell, even talking about meaningful interaction, the difference between Gone Home's "spinning shit in front of the camera" mechanic to The Order 1886 and Uncharted 4's take on the same mechanic, is that you're picking things up in order to find out more about this family and what happened to them, not just to look at some 3D asset and then put it down, with absolutely nothing of interest happening. The objects are not important, it's what they tell you that matters.

Also, "not having guns going off" is such a poor defense. We've had non-shooting games since forever. Shooting is not the only interesting mechanic in gaming. They don't have to choose between gameplay and story, they can very well connect the two seamlessly, like they did in The Last of Us.

I found the pacing of Uncharted 4 to be the best in the series, even if I do consider 2 to be the overall superior game. Uncharted's combat has never been its main selling point, and I think the game makes a point to have its combat segments matter more and spacing them out helps.

The first three games would be too afraid to have any puzzle or platforming portions go on too long without a fight, which honestly kind of cheapens the experience as a whole. It was an awkward "video gamey" design that felt out of place in a series that is clearly trying to reach for more cinematic aspirations.

It's very rare to find a game with shooting as polished as U4 that doesn't center the whole game around that mechanic and that honestly makes me appreciate Naughty Dog's boldness with Uncharted 4 and will ensure it's a game that is more enjoyable to replay in the future compared to say, Uncharted 1.

What's bold about "hold forward to story"? That's the go-to AAA mechanic when they want to "tell story through gameplay". As if there's some inherent value to the story when you have to hold the "play" button on your dvd's controller, instead of just watching the cutscene.

People talk as if there was any meaningful interaction outside of combat in the game, and we're just a bunch of bloodthirsty morons who can't appreciate any game that isn't Call of Duty. Of course it's rare to find a game that has one single element where there's player agency and then doesn't use it, that's arguably terrible game design. If you don't want your game to be about shooting, you either don't include shooting or you at least focus on other mechanics, instead of polishing shooting to hell and then have the player doing nothing but holding forward for large chunks of the game.
 
Yes, pacing is bad, climbing was not fun and used a lot.

They can make action and story mix togheter but this was not the set piece fiesta of 2 and 3.

I'm afraid that TLOU2 turn out to be very slow paced in a bad way,like to serius or something like that. They need to put new interesting mechanics besides of hiding, listening and crafting, that was very cool 5 years ago, i want fresh stuff.
 
Personally, I'm still waiting for the "amazing story" part.

Instead, I got that bullshit flashback chapter that disregarded what the series was building up to (at least 1 and 2), making the legacy less important as a retcon to set the current story as the real one, that they were destined to go through. Giving Nate
a superhero origin story, with his mother being another superhero, including a garbage convenient as fuck death that put him on his path, and the chosen name being more of a convenience than anything
Oh. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the story itself, characters, and performances. I'm also easy to please. I wasn't thinking about it in terms of the series storlyine as a whole. You're probably right about the retcon and superhero stuff. I guess series' fans could be bitter.
What's bold about "hold forward to story"? That's the go-to AAA mechanic when they want to "tell story through gameplay". As if there's some inherent value to the story when you have to hold the "play" button on your dvd's controller, instead of just watching the cutscene.
Yeah, this seems to be a thing and I can't say I'm a fan. If I'm just going to walk from one cut scene to another in a linear game, make the entire sequence a cut scene or just make a movie. With that said, that and this game are two reasons as to why I'm hesitant to play TLoU. It gets a lot of praise but I rarely here anybody talking about the gameplay. I hear more people talking about the story and characters, which is fine, but I really hope it's not paced like this. I really hope there's a reason for me to return to the single player. I know there is gameplay, I've seen videos. I'm also not a fan of zombies, or whatever they are in TLoU, so that's another reason I haven't jumped on it yet.
 
A lot of people seem to dislike how much Uncharted 4 turned towards the less shooty and more adventure-like elements, but honestly that's what I'd been waiting for from the series all along. Probably need to play through UC4 again to decide whether I like it better than 2.
 
Yeah this seems to be a thing and I can't say I'm a fan. If I'm just going to walk from one cut scene to another in a linear game, make the entire sequence a cut scene or just make a movie. With that said, that and this game are two reasons as to why I'm hesitant to play TLoU. It gets a lot of praise but I rarely here anybody talking about the gameplay. I hear more people talking about the story and characters, which is fine, but I really hope it's not paced like this. I really hope there's a reason for me to return to the single player. I know there is gameplay, I've seen videos. I'm also not a fan of zombies, or whatever they are in TLoU, so that's another reason I haven't jumped on it yet.

The Last of Us is up there with Uncharted 2 as some of the better paced games in gaming, alongside being the best playing Naughty Dog game in their entire gaming history - don't think twice about picking it up.
 
The Last of Us is up there with Uncharted 2 as some of the better paced games in gaming, alongside being the best playing Naughty Dog game in their entire gaming history - don't think twice about picking it up.
Hmm. I really enjoyed Crash Warped. Maybe the next time I see TLoU, I'll pick it up. I often find it for cheap anyway.
 
I found the pacing of Uncharted 4 to be the best in the series, even if I do consider 2 to be the overall superior game. Uncharted's combat has never been its main selling point, and I think the game makes a point to have its combat segments matter more and spacing them out helps.

The first three games would be too afraid to have any puzzle or platforming portions go on too long without a fight, which honestly kind of cheapens the experience as a whole. It was an awkward "video gamey" design that felt out of place in a series that is clearly trying to reach for more cinematic aspirations.

It's very rare to find a game with shooting as polished as U4 that doesn't center the whole game around that mechanic and that honestly makes me appreciate Naughty Dog's boldness with Uncharted 4 and will ensure it's a game that is more enjoyable to replay in the future compared to say, Uncharted 1.
It's also very gamey to have
-so many convenient places for ropes
-so many still working seemingly freshly made crates with wheels
-convenient white paint on every piece of explorable geometry
even the side of cliffs.
Arguably these things are all more gamey than the rate in which characters found new clues in the past few games. The game isn't trying to be less of a game by having less combat.

Hmm. I really enjoyed Crash Warped. Maybe the next time I see TLoU, I'll pick it up. I often find it for cheap anyway.
First couple hours of the game are like UC4 where they just don't let go of your hand but after that it's quite good.
 
Yeah this seems to be a thing and I can't say I'm a fan. If I'm just going to walk from one cut scene to another in a linear game, make the entire sequence a cut scene or just make a movie. With that said, that and this game are two reasons as to why I'm hesitant to play TLoU. It gets a lot of praise but I rarely here anybody talking about the gameplay. I hear more people talking about the story and characters, which is fine, but I really hope it's not paced like this. I really hope there's a reason for me to return to the single player. I know there is gameplay, I've seen videos. I'm also not a fan of zombies, or whatever they are in TLoU, so that's another reason I haven't jumped on it yet.


The characters and story are the main selling points. But the gameplay in TLOU is serviceable. It's a decent stealth lite game.

Downtime, slow walking segments, cutscenes are well paced throughout the game.
I've played TLOU multiple times on ps3 and ps4. I love TLOU. And i hate UC4.
 
Yeah, this seems to be a thing and I can't say I'm a fan. If I'm just going to walk from one cut scene to another in a linear game, make the entire sequence a cut scene or just make a movie. With that said, that and this game are two reasons as to why I'm hesitant to play TLoU. It gets a lot of praise but I rarely here anybody talking about the gameplay. I hear more people talking about the story and characters, which is fine, but I really hope it's not paced like this. I really hope there's a reason for me to return to the single player. I know there is gameplay, I've seen videos. I'm also not a fan of zombies, or whatever they are in TLoU, so that's another reason I haven't jumped on it yet.

I personally think the gameplay in The Last of Us is very underrated, the gunplay is fantastic, and the stealth action is really damn good. The encounters are well designed and each enemy is very unique in the way you deal with them. I'd recommend playing on Hard, it's the best balanced difficulty, imo. You'll always have "just enough" resources. You'll be able to mix things up instead of saving all the time and not using the fun stuff, but you'll also have to think, there won't be THAT much for you to just waste without thinking twice.

I really love it, and the way they deal with the downtime will also keep you engaged with the gameplay, not just the story. It's not just holding forward while people talk, you're looking around for crafting and upgrade materials while they talk.There are still some nothing segments, but they're waaay less prevalent than in Uncharted 4, so they actually serve as a change of pace, instead of being the majority of your interaction with the game.

The characters and story are the main selling points. But the gameplay in TLOU is serviceable. It's a decent stealth lite game.

Downtime, slow walking segments, cutscenes are well paced throughout the game.
I've played TLOU multiple times on ps3 and ps4. I love TLOU. And i hate UC4.

Yeah, same. Last time was in July, even, in order to record some footage, and for the first time since Uncharted 4. I have to confess I was a bit worried that my preferences had shifted a bit and I wouldn't enjoy it as much. Nope. Loved my time with it as always.
 
It's also very gamey to have
-so many convenient places for ropes
-so many still working seemingly freshly made crates with wheels
-convenient white paint on every piece of explorable geometry
even the side of cliffs.
Arguably these things are all more gamey than the rate in which characters found new clues in the past few games. The game isn't trying to be less of a game by having less combat.
This is a good point. Nobody ever seems to point any of these things out. And that applies to any games like this. Actually, this further emphasizes the fact that games that are meant to be played. If a game isn't "gamey", it might just be terrible. If anything, the bolded can really break immersion if you think about it too much.
 
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