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[studyguy]

Trump seems to be giving the CSR the go ahead after trying to shoot them down so w/e nothing matters anymore. Just do whatever.

Maybe he's acknowledging that he's created instability in the market (which will kill thousands) and that now Congress has to at least put a band aid on it for a year or two so we don't kill quite so many people until we're ready to pair it properly with tax cut.

Alternatively he just doesn't know what a CSR anyway so it's moot.
Both scenarios seem likely.

Probably just wanted to pass the buck to congress regardless of the outcome, that's probably it.

 

[whyamihere]

This is a good ad for Alabama.

@PoliticoKevin
New Doug Jones ad in #ALSen: "I can work with Republicans better than Roy Moore can work with anyone." https://www.iqmediacorp.com/ClipPlayer/?ClipID=79003295-3a9e-4176-8b4f-32fe340210ff&ps=2

 

[kirblar]

Trump seems to be giving the CSR the go ahead after trying to shoot them down so w/e nothing matters anymore. Just do whatever.

Maybe he's acknowledging that he's created instability in the market (which will kill thousands) and that now Congress has to at least put a band aid on it for a year or two so we don't kill quite so many people until we're ready to pair it properly with tax cut.

Alternatively he just doesn't know what a CSR anyway so it's moot.

Both scenarios seem likely.

This whole "stop EA, force bipartisan bill to be passed" strategy is...quite bizarre.

This is a good ad for Alabama.

Yes. That's a fantastic tagline.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Frank Thorp V (@frankthorp)
Alexander says there’s no guarantee from leadership on a vote yet, says they’re going to round up cosponsors & present to Schumer/McConnell

This seems weird to me if this is going somewhere. If Schumer isn't aware of the wheeling and dealing, then it's probably a Graham-Cassidy situation except maybe with a Dem and and Republican. So that means they better round up a bunch of (Republican) cosponsors to get to the high 50s at least. No way Mitch calls for a vote that passes with 48 Dems and 3 Reps. He has to think his leadership position is in jeopardy before he'll hand Chuck another win.

 

[kirblar]

This seems weird to me if this is going somewhere. If Schumer isn't aware of the wheeling and dealing, then it's probably a Graham-Cassidy situation except maybe with a Dem and and Republican. So that means they better round up a bunch of (Republican) cosponsors to get to the high 50s at least. No way Mitch calls for a vote that passes with 48 Dems and 3 Reps. He has to think his leadership position is in jeopardy before he'll hand Chuck another win.

The threat of Obamacare's pricetags to their party's success in 2018's midterms seems pretty large.

 

[studyguy]

This whole "stop EA, force bipartisan bill to be passed" strategy is...quite bizarre.

Trump used the moment to say "we're working on murdering health care via block grants but apparently I'm not allowed to do that yet, so you're getting another year or two"

Like everything about what he did was so on the nose he basically wrote Midterm ads the moment he signed that EO for healthcare costs shooting to the moon.
Taking the ball and going home while hundreds of thousands languish isn't fucking negotiation, voters aren't that fucking stupid.

 

[Futurevoid]

Sounds like he's in..

Chad Pergram‏Verified account @ChadPergram 56s57 seconds ago

Trump says Alexander/Murray cost-sharing deal “will be for year or two years..will get us over hump“

 

[VendettaRed07]

I’m not convinced the current democratic officials are able to take advantage of the generic polling advantage or capitalize on the unpopularity if republicans now.

We are in a new age of hyper partisanship and I think the only way to get people to flip would be to put a new branding on the party and try something different. If the approvals of democrats are so low and party lines are so deep, then change the party.

But we aren’t doing that. We apparently believe that old ideas and 90s strategies are applicable to the era of Trump. Trump changed the map and we’re still pretending like he didn’t. If things stay the same, it doesn’t matter what people say or the numbers look like. Come voting day people will just go to the polls and vote for whoever they are historically more comfortable with if they see generic D and generic R. Currently that favors republicans.

But what does Perez care. He’s probably writing on a chalk board infront of a bunch of students right now

 

[DTC]

Good. The GOP would have been skewered even harder if they didn't do these payments.

Also that Doug Jones ad is good but I think he's been far too liberal on some issues (particularly abortion) for Alabunga. Even though Roy Moore is crazy, his favorability is like 53/40 in Alabunga lol. I've honestly been surprised the polls have been as close as they are there.

 

[studyguy]

I’m not convinced the current democratic officials are able to take advantage of the generic polling advantage or capitalize on the unpopularity if republicans now.

We are in a new age of hyper partisanship and I think the only way to get people to flip would be to put a new branding on the party and try something different. If the approvals of democrats are so low and party lines are so deep, then change the party.

But we aren’t doing that. We apparently believe that old ideas and 90s strategies are applicable to the era of Trump. Trump changed the map and we’re still pretending like he didn’t. If things stay the same, it doesn’t matter what people say or the numbers look like. Come voting day people will just go to the polls and vote for whoever they are historically more comfortable with if they see generic D and generic R. Currently that favors republicans.

But what does Perez care. He’s probably writing on a chalk board infront of a bunch of students right now

You're right, someone get Doug Jones a cage and a Breitbart reporter to piledrive through a table.

 

[Kusagari]

Sounds like he's in..

So is Obamacare no longer over?

 

[VendettaRed07]

You're right, someone get Doug Jones a cage and a Breitbart reporter to piledrive through a table.

You joke, but maybe Doug Jones acting like a madman would help.

Not like we currently have any evidence that it wouldn’t. As far as I’ve seen, being insane seems like a plus.

 

[Blader]

This is a good ad for Alabama.

That's a fucking good line!

 

[nature boy]

Sounds like he's in..

He doesn't give a shit about the policy, anything's "good"

 

[kirblar]

I’m not convinced the current democratic officials are able to take advantage of the generic polling advantage or capitalize on the unpopularity if republicans now.

We are in a new age of hyper partisanship and I think the only way to get people to flip would be to put a new branding on the party and try something different. If the approvals of democrats are so low and party lines are so deep, then change the party.

But we aren’t doing that. We apparently believe that old ideas and 90s strategies are applicable to the era of Trump. Trump changed the map and we’re still pretending like he didn’t. If things stay the same, it doesn’t matter what people say or the numbers look like. Come voting day people will just go to the polls and vote for whoever they are historically more comfortable with if they see generic D and generic R. Currently that favors republicans.

But what does Perez care. He’s probably writing on a chalk board infront of a bunch of students right now

This would be applicable to midterm strategy and branding, but we haven't had that yet. Our most high-profile races are in places like GA-6 and VA. One a red state trending toward purple, the other a purple state trending blue.

Yes, we have issues in the rust belt, but we haven't been having elections there.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

The threat of Obamacare's pricetags to their party's success in 2018's midterms seems pretty large.

That's true of a lot of their actions and it's only stopped some of them. I'll need to see some movement on this before I get my hopes up.

I’m not convinced the current democratic officials are able to take advantage of the generic polling advantage or capitalize on the unpopularity if republicans now.

We are in a new age of hyper partisanship and I think the only way to get people to flip would be to put a new branding on the party and try something different. If the approvals of democrats are so low and party lines are so deep, then change the party.

But we aren’t doing that. We apparently believe that old ideas and 90s strategies are applicable to the era of Trump. Trump changed the map and we’re still pretending like he didn’t. If things stay the same, it doesn’t matter what people say or the numbers look like. Come voting day people will just go to the polls and vote for whoever they are historically more comfortable with if they see generic D and generic R. Currently that favors republicans.

But what does Perez care. He’s probably writing on a chalk board infront of a bunch of students right now

This post is a bit strange. I agree that 90s strategies won't work anymore, but then you're talking about flipping people. That was the 90s strategy! To get people to vote for the Third Way instead of traditionally voting for Republicans!

The correct move in the next decade is to assume hyper-partisanship of most people and just drive their turnout down. When you say:

Come voting day people will just go to the polls and vote for whoever they are historically more comfortable with if they see generic D and generic R.

you're already assuming high republican turnout. That's of course going to fail.

Go look at statewide MO elections for the past few years (or dig through whyamihere's post history, he posted them in this thread at one point). Notice what it took in the past for Dems to win, and you'll see it involves hitting your numbers as a Dem while keeping GOP turnout down. Turnout is the name of the game these days, not flipping voters (I mean, you flip a few, but it's not the main focus anymore).

As for the Perez dig, isn't he only doing a couple of lectures? As a college professor, it's not that big a deal lol.

 

[whyamihere]

Abortion will probably kill Jones though. Wouldn't be surprised if Moore starts running ads on that soon.

 

[Anoregon]

Abortion will probably kill Jones though.

What, is he a fetus?

Spoiler

bazinga.

 

[Blader]

I’m not convinced the current democratic officials are able to take advantage of the generic polling advantage or capitalize on the unpopularity if republicans now.

We are in a new age of hyper partisanship and I think the only way to get people to flip would be to put a new branding on the party and try something different. If the approvals of democrats are so low and party lines are so deep, then change the party.

But we aren’t doing that. We apparently believe that old ideas and 90s strategies are applicable to the era of Trump. Trump changed the map and we’re still pretending like he didn’t. If things stay the same, it doesn’t matter what people say or the numbers look like. Come voting day people will just go to the polls and vote for whoever they are historically more comfortable with if they see generic D and generic R. Currently that favors republicans.

But what does Perez care. He’s probably writing on a chalk board infront of a bunch of students right now

Aren't the ideas put forth by today's Democratic Party far more progressive than what 90s Clinton Dems were putting out? hasn't Trump 'changing the map' made us more attuned to the concerns of Rust Belt working-class families that just a year ago we were, frankly, ignoring because we thought their votes were negligible? And if people are just going to vote for generic D and generic R, and generic Ds currently have an outsized polling lead over generic Rs, that doesn't that, uh, currently favor Democrats?

This post doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Abortion will probably kill Jones though. Wouldn't be surprised if Moore starts running ads on that soon.

Ok how about this for a counter ad then

“Doug Jones, a Democrat with balls”,

And have him standing with a statue of lady Justice dangling two large metallic balls right infront of his nuts.

And then in small text at the bottom “he’s not afraid to stand up for women’s rights, even when it’s politically inconvenient

I mean can anyone tell me with any certainty that wouldn’t work?

Spoiler

im only 80% kidding

 

[Y2Kev]

What, is he a fetus?

Spoiler

bazinga.

Omg Lol!

 

[whyamihere]

What, is he a fetus?

Spoiler

bazinga.

/dead

 

[Mizerman]

What, is he a fetus?

Spoiler

bazinga.

*Chuckles sensibly*

 

[Diablos]

So is Obamacare no longer over?

Trump saved it! And it’s Trumpcare.

I guess this is how all of this works.

 

[VendettaRed07]

This post is a bit strange. I agree that 90s strategies won't work anymore, but then you're talking about flipping people. That was the 90s strategy! To get people to vote for the Third Way instead of traditionally voting for Republicans!

The correct move in the next decade is to assume hyper-partisanship of most people and just drive their turnout down. When you say:

you're already assuming high republican turnout. That's of course going to fail.

Go look at statewide MO elections for the past few years (or dig through whyamihere's post history, he posted them in this thread at one point). Notice what it took in the past for Dems to win, and you'll see it involves hitting your numbers as a Dem while keeping GOP turnout down. Turnout is the name of the game these days, not flipping voters (I mean, you flip a few, but it's not the main focus anymore).

As for the Perez dig, isn't he only doing a couple of lectures? As a college professor, it's not that big a deal lol.

Flipping people in the 90s was the strategy. Problem is we are trying to flip them in similar ways.

Point is, yes maybe it sounds crazy to sell socialism to southern voters, but maybe it would work better in practice then we actually are aware of because it isn’t like we have tried it. Or that doing stuff like that would reach people we didn’t think would find stuff like that appealing previously

Yes there are places like in Missouri we’re we have had success. But in places we’re we haven’t maybe we need to do something completely different

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I can't believe the guy who said Game Theory was bad because John Nash had mental illness turned out to be a rapist.

Sam Kriss was obviously a terrible person well before this and the Dirtbag Left is fucked up for not ejecting him months ago.

 

[Officerrob]

Federal judge in Hawaii blocks the new travel ban

 

[Tamanon]

Federal judge in Hawaii blocks the new travel ban

Yeah, but what do they know? They're just an island, surrounded by big water, ocean water.

 

[kirblar]

Flipping people in the 90s was the strategy. Problem is we are trying to flip them in similar ways.

Point is, yes maybe it sounds crazy to sell socialism to southern voters, but maybe it would work better in practice then we actually are aware of because it isn’t like we have tried it. Or that doing stuff like that would reach people we didn’t think would find stuff like that appealing previously

Yes there are places like in Missouri we’re we have had success. But in places we’re we haven’t maybe we need to do something completely different

The fundamental problem is that those people you're trying to go after don't want Bernies. They want Le Pens.

 

[pigeon]

I can't believe the guy who said Game Theory was bad because John Nash had mental illness turned out to be a rapist.

Sam Kriss was obviously a terrible person well before this and the Dirtbag Left is fucked up for not ejecting him months ago.

Weird hypothetical, what if dirtbags are actually bad

 

[VendettaRed07]

The fundamental problem is that those people you're trying to go after don't want Bernies. They want Le Pens.

Ok but out of 100 races vs Le Pens, who wins more amongst these voters. Ossoff or Bernie ?

If they really want Le Pens, then there’s nothing we can do because that’s a line we can’t cross. But who stacks up and finds a way to win more often is the question I guess

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Flipping people in the 90s was the strategy. Problem is we are trying to flip them in similar ways.

Point is, yes maybe it sounds crazy to sell socialism to southern voters, but maybe it would work better in practice then we actually are aware of because it isn’t like we have tried it. Or that doing stuff like that would reach people we didn’t think would find stuff like that appealing previously

Yes there are places like in Missouri we’re we have had success. But in places we’re we haven’t maybe we need to do something completely different

Well, no, because there's nowhere that we haven't had at least one success story to point to and emulate. Running a socialist in Mississippi is a bad idea; we couldn't get a plant of auto workers to vote to unionize their own jobs. We do have a Democrat who wins statewide election every time he runs, but he also posts Blue Lives Matter stuff every now and then and will most likely have to lean hard on criminal justice.

That doesn't mean we're flipping voters though! The goal with winning a statewide election in the South is to get Republicans to stay home, and use our high floors to bump us over the line.

Also, I'm sorry, but I'm really not a fan of turning my state into a test case for something as silly as running a socialist in Mississippi. I want to run candidates who have the best chance of winning here, and that means grabbing people that win here.

Like come on, experiment on your own state, don't roll the dice on mine.

I can't believe the guy who said Game Theory was bad because John Nash had mental illness turned out to be a rapist.

Sam Kriss was obviously a terrible person well before this and the Dirtbag Left is fucked up for not ejecting him months ago.

Medium should probably turn this thing at the bottom of his "apology" off because holy shit

 

[RustyNails]

Yeah, but what do they know? They're just an island, surrounded by big water, ocean water.

Trump will have a word with their president.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

Carter Page subpoenaed

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/17/politics/carter-page-subpoena-senate-intel-committee/index.html

 

[PBY]

The fundamental problem is that those people you're trying to go after don't want Bernies. They want Le Pens.

How do you know this? People want a better life, full stop.

If you can give them that. fucking sell it.

 

[kirblar]

Ok but out of 100 races vs Le Pens, who wins more amongst these voters. Ossoff or Bernie ?

If they really want Le Pens, then there's nothing we can do because that's a line we can't cross. But who stacks up and finds a way to win more often is the question I guess

In Ossoff's district Bernie is not going to play well.

How do you know this? People want a better life, full stop.

If you can give them that. fucking sell it.

Because people keep voting for racists instead of people trying to improve their quality of life, generally showing that they have a strong preference for the racism! (except when the economy goes into a recession, then they'll panic and elect Dems to save it.)

 

[AntraxSuicide]

How do you know this? People want a better life, full stop.

If you can give them that. fucking sell it.

I live here, man. If you're talking about a House race or something specific with a different demographic, then mention which one, but we seem to be talking about running for statewide office in Alabama. You ever see the Klan march? I have, multiple times. Those people aren't votes you win, but to deny that they're there or not a major part of the South's voter base is crazy.

Even in a college town here in Oxford, we had a guy crash his truck into a Confederate statue and the school paid to fix it. This place isn't what you think it is. Even compared to more educated Southern states like Georgia or North Carolina.

 

[Surfinn]

Carter Page subpoenaed

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/17/politics/carter-page-subpoena-senate-intel-committee/index.html

Lol that Michael Scott pose

 

[Deuce Deuce]

Carter Page subpoenaed

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/17/politics/carter-page-subpoena-senate-intel-committee/index.html

Gee. Is there anyone who hasn't been subpoenaed yet? Well besides the man himself.

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

http://www.businessinsider.com/mueller-trump-russia-matt-tait-michael-flynn-investigation-2017-10

A cybersecurity researcher who said he was recruited to vet hacked Hillary Clinton emails last year by a GOP operative tied to President Donald Trump's campaign team has been interviewed by special counsel Robert Mueller, Business Insider has learned.

MUELLERS

COMIN'

 

[Blader]

There are a lot of people in this country who want a better life so long as that route to a better life doesn't also benefit black and brown people too.

 

[The Technomancer]

There are a lot of people in this country who want a better life so long as that route to a better life doesn't also benefit black and brown people too.

They're not a majority, probably, but they still represent enough of voters that they have sizable political influence

 

[Anoregon]

There are a lot of people in this country who want a better life so long as that route to a better life doesn't also benefit black and brown people too.

They are also ok with a worse life as long as life is getting more worse for brown and black people.

 

[The Technomancer]

How do you know this? People want a better life, full stop.

If you can give them that. fucking sell it.

I was posting about it while I was reading it, but Strangers in Their Own Land is well worth a read, even though I don't agree with everything in it. The look at the people actively opposing the need for the EPA while also acknowledging that industry was literally poisoning their state was...sure something

 

[Amibguous Cad]

So--does Trump take credit for this?

Or does he continue to bash the system?

He backed himself into a corner with that comment yesterday.

The line I'm seeing is that "Obamacare is broken and I'm doing what Obama couldn't."

This whole "stop EA, force bipartisan bill to be passed" strategy is...quite bizarre.

I mean, I'm sure Trump stumbled into this on accident.

But "I'm not willing to continue a dubiously constitutional executive order to save the failing health care policy of my predecessor but am perfectly willing to sign a bipartisan bill that fixes it the right way" is a pretty reasonable position to hold.

(Politically, of course, it's easier to sell this sequence as "I'm fixing what my predecessor couldn't" rather than "I'm propping up the system I've spent the last two years railing against.")

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

US jodges block trumps latest travel restrictions.


2 scoops NOW I WANT THIRDS

 

[AntraxSuicide]

I was posting about it while I was reading it, but Strangers in Their Own Land is well worth a read, even though I don't agree with everything in it. The look at the people actively opposing the need for the EPA while also acknowledging that industry was literally poisoning their state was...sure something

Here in Mississippi a few years back, we had Prop 42 fail. It said that the state legislature had to submit their education funding to a court to prove that it had indeed funded our schools like the law says it would. This was an issue because while the law says the state must pay $X/year, it only actually did that once in the last 2 decades. But the law also says that the determination of whether the state failed to meet funding goals was up to the state itself (whoopsie daisy!).

Prop 42 failed because the campaign against it argued that "you don't want some judge in Hinds County telling your government where to spend the money for your child's education." Hinds County is mostly black, and this dog whistle doubles as a callout to Judge Carlton Reeves (who is black) who had ruled against the state GOP a few times. The triple dog whistle is that "where to spend your child's education money" just meant that money would continue funding schools in white towns while black schools languish on the vine.

 

[Blader]

They're not a majority, probably, but they still represent enough of voters that they have sizable political influence

No I wouldn't say they're a majority of the country at all. But if the question is "why don't we try socialism more often in the south?", well, that's why.

 

[teiresias]

Sounds like he's in..

Dems should hold out for a permanent fix. Fuck the GOP and Trump.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Dems should hold out for a permanent fix. Fuck the GOP and Trump.

This would result in the deaths of thousands.