DF x IGN closest GPU to PS5 pro is an RTX 4070
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
Team Andromeda
Member
Typed like a True fanboy... BYE!!!
I think it was more because 'it' was the only game that showed a 'marked' improvement for RT effects over a base PS5, not hard really... since GT7 didn't feature any in-game, unlike FORZA
omegasc
Gold Member
We'll have to agree to disagree, then.
Mister Wolf
Member
Console gamers don't realize how cheap you can get brand new games on PC. It's insane.
XXL
Gold Member
If we get RT on GT7 VR.....I'm going to lose my fucking mind.
It's doubtful, but if so....my lord.
XXL
Gold Member
Yeah, either way. It would be great to get some more details.
Romulus
Member
I wonder of it would have been possible to keep the ps5 gpu but go all out on a cpu that wipes the floor with zen 2 for $700.
They're hinting that some games will hit 120fps with the shitty zen 2 so that makes me think an actual modern cpu could actually do it. Alot.
In that case I think it would actually make sense if you're getting 90% of games running at 120fps. Then it's actually a viable upgrade. Not this slightly better fps and IQ middle ground bullshit they're tricking people with.
Cerny said it himself, playstation gamers favor performance.
I would wager the decision was made to scrap a performance based machine because most people have 60hz tvs and going all in on 120hz would be a problem.
Fuck me that would have been awesome.
They're hinting that some games will hit 120fps with the shitty zen 2 so that makes me think an actual modern cpu could actually do it. Alot.
In that case I think it would actually make sense if you're getting 90% of games running at 120fps. Then it's actually a viable upgrade. Not this slightly better fps and IQ middle ground bullshit they're tricking people with.
Cerny said it himself, playstation gamers favor performance.
I would wager the decision was made to scrap a performance based machine because most people have 60hz tvs and going all in on 120hz would be a problem.
Fuck me that would have been awesome.
JackMcGunns
Member
In their Wukong video they use a motherboard with an Xbox Series X CPU and RTX 3070 as their PS5 Pro approximation.
MisterXDTV
Member
I mean what GPU is needed to get 4K DLSS Quality 120 fps with good RT?
Because you are not getting there with a 4070 for sure
The machine you are suggesting would have insane power consumption as well
Consoles are power-limited before anything elese
GHG
Gold Member
4090, and even that won't hold those framerates a lot of the time in some of the latest more intensive games.
AMD don't even offer anything that's remotely in that ballpark either, never mind attempting to squeeze that on to an APU.
Team Andromeda
Member
Did GT7 feature in-game RT effects?
omegasc
Gold Member
You're trying to hard to not understand that they are stating GT7 on the PS5 Pro was a good example due to in game ray tracing effects at the higher IQ and frame rate.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Deep down everyone knows it's an joke of a profuct for the price but people are coping and justifying it because they are fans of the company that makes it. Only sony or apple could get away with announcing a premium product that doesn't come with the stand it's advertised with.
But, of course I'm super excited to see how this thing performs in the wild. Aren't we all tech guys here?
To be clear. I wanted this thing. The only issue is the insane pricing.
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sncvsrtoip
Member
XXL
Gold Member
Either one would be amazing in my opinion. Regardless, we're getting some upgrades and I'm excited to see what that means.give me native 90fps without reprojection + higher res and draw distance instead
Romulus
Member
I'm saying just keep the PS5 GPU as is and go all in on framerate if Playstation fans truly value performance. You could maybe even come in cheaper than $700 too
Team Andromeda
Member
Fair enough Jim
MisterXDTV
Member
Wait. Do you understand that doing that would degrade image quality instead of improving it??
What you are suggesting is to take the current 60 fps mode and degrade it graphically until it reaches 120 fps thanks to that monster CPU
I don't really believe that's what people want when they buy new hardware
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Romulus
Member
You're not aware what CPU could be used or the amount of net gain would be possible without degrading resolution. Neither of us are aware of how much headroom an actual modern CPU would afford.
MisterXDTV
Member
FPS are not determined just by the CPU, that's for sure
You need both the CPU and GPU to support that target, in this case 120 fps is a very high target
akira__
Banned
And there was a huge delta between both versions, 10% less performance and image quality was worse.
Romulus
Member
The target that isn't high is PS5 performance mode resolution metrics. Base PS5 can easily handle those 1440p(or less) metrics. I've upgraded CPUs on my PC without touching the GPU before to understand it makes an incredible difference, especially when its a crazy bottleneck like PS5's zen 2. Those are garbage.
MisterXDTV
Member
Let's agree to disagree then...
You simply can't double the framerate with the current PS5 GPU, just by changing the CPU while keeping the same IQ
If PS5 CPU is a huge bottleneck how would you call the PS4 CPU exactly??
Romulus
Member
I've done this before. I've actually gotten over double by upgrading the CPU at the same resolution buying an old build that wasn't completed. But okay. Zen 2 is a boat anchor.
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ap_puff
Banned
depends on the game, most games no. maybe something like stellaris or civ 6 late game you can double the framerate just by upgrading cpu
Romulus
Member
And that's considering we're talking PC. Naughty Dog and the other first party sony developers are optimization masters by this point. Give them a stone and they'll get water from it. Give them a monster CPU and they'll do wonders.
This goes both ways.
Console gaming offers a super refined user experience. It's plug & play while still offering reasonable levels of customisation.
I use a PC daily and it is a woeful user experience for even menial tasks. When it comes to gaming the old problems of drivers, instability, and never ending tweaking of settings dominate. For some that's part of the fun, but I'm here to play games, not optimise a system.
Can someone explain what is going on with the PC community? Forums and social media are filled with fake comparisons, disingenuous arguments, and flatout refusal to believe the PS5 Pro's potential performance and features. I would have thought PC gamers would be happy to see a console that's comparable with high end PC. For years we've been told DLSS and AI is a game changer and can transform the real world performance of even a modest GPU. Now Sony & AMD are delivering this tech in a highly optimised, custom console, it's going to be just as transformative for consoles. I also have upmost confidence in Sony's software developers to deliver consistent improvements to PSSR and their tools.
PC gamer have nothing to fear, embrace PS5 Pro coming to the market.
Topher
Identifies as young
Eh.....calling it a "joke of a profuct" while acknowledging we have no idea how well this thing performs doesn't make a lot of sense.
And one could say you are only saying such because you are not a fan of the company making it. Works both ways.
Zathalus
Member
Some notes from the new DF special, just went over the first 3 games so far.
- First up is TLOU, PSSR seems to have some problems with ghosting. Especially on fine detail like grass.
- TLOU Part 2, 1440p upscaled to 4K with PSSR.
- Close enough or better in some ways vs native 4K.
- Ratchet and Clank is 1440p-1800p, right around Ratchet and Clank Quality mode. Upscaled to 4K with PSSR.
- Settings are from the reduced settings performance RT mode and not quality mode of PS5. Compared to PC has reduced LOD, no background DoF, and less crowd density.
- Compared to PC upscalers at 4K quality. Way better vs FSR 3.1 in general, less ghosting and fizzle, however distant trees have more shimmering. Compared to DLSS there is more shimmering on distant trees and objects in motion are handled better with DLSS.
- Conclusion, better than FSR 3.1 in a lot of ways, not quite as good as DLSS.
- Not equal to 4K in this game, puzzled as to why as other games are better.
- No mention of additional RT effects like the PC version has.
- Alan Wake 2, only have very limited footage.
- Appears to have two modes, 30fps vs 60fps.
- 60fps mode is 864p, 30fps mode is 1260p.
- No signs of FSR2, almost certainly PSSR, but very little footage. FSR2 was terrible in this game, PSSR would be welcome.
- 30fps has RT reflections, 60fps does not.
- First up is TLOU, PSSR seems to have some problems with ghosting. Especially on fine detail like grass.
- TLOU Part 2, 1440p upscaled to 4K with PSSR.
- Close enough or better in some ways vs native 4K.
- Ratchet and Clank is 1440p-1800p, right around Ratchet and Clank Quality mode. Upscaled to 4K with PSSR.
- Settings are from the reduced settings performance RT mode and not quality mode of PS5. Compared to PC has reduced LOD, no background DoF, and less crowd density.
- Compared to PC upscalers at 4K quality. Way better vs FSR 3.1 in general, less ghosting and fizzle, however distant trees have more shimmering. Compared to DLSS there is more shimmering on distant trees and objects in motion are handled better with DLSS.
- Conclusion, better than FSR 3.1 in a lot of ways, not quite as good as DLSS.
- Not equal to 4K in this game, puzzled as to why as other games are better.
- No mention of additional RT effects like the PC version has.
- Alan Wake 2, only have very limited footage.
- Appears to have two modes, 30fps vs 60fps.
- 60fps mode is 864p, 30fps mode is 1260p.
- No signs of FSR2, almost certainly PSSR, but very little footage. FSR2 was terrible in this game, PSSR would be welcome.
- 30fps has RT reflections, 60fps does not.
akira__
Banned
Well well well, fsr sucks now according to them. Who would have guessed.
Now ghosting and shimmering are discussed with these frame generation and upscaling technologies. Something other channels have been discussing since the start of dlss.
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kevboard
Member
they are constantly criticising FSR...
and ghosting/shimmering of DLSS is usually either equal or less than native TAA. textbook example here would be Death Stranding.
Digital Foundry also CONSTANTLY showcased upscaling related ghosting and shimmering in multiple of their PC focused videos, which included showcasing DLSS and FSR related bugs in games like Hitman 3 or Death Stranding that lead to distracting and weird ghosting due to improper implementation of these reconstruction methods.
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Zathalus
Member
Forbidden West is up next.
- Compared to 4070, 4K DLAA DRS, Max setting.
- Pro footage is softer. Didn’t really look like 4K.
- Shadows and volumetrics look different, same thing is observed on the base PS5 version.
- It appears Forbidden West is not using PSSR. Still using 4K checkerboard but not quite 100% sure.
- Absolutely no sign of improved effects mentioned in the reveal video. No improved lighting.
- Richard stressed that these are retrofit patches, the developers are busy with other projects. Not a lot of development effort is going to be spent on these Pro modes.
- Hogwarts Legacy has more reflections but the reflections have way more breakup and noise because of this. Seemingly a higher roughness cutoff so more objects have reflections but lots more noise because of this. Probably because UE4 allows for some objects to have less rays which in turn leads to more noise. Bit of a mixed bag.
- RT shadows are included, look a bit odd and misaligned in some spots looks to be mixed with screen space shadows. Lake reflections are not RT.
- Footage supplied is 30fps.
- GT7 has RT reflections during gameplay.
- Immediate reaction is the game looks noticeably lower resolution.
- Pixel count is 1188p, upscale to 4K via PSSR. Huge drop in resolution.
- RT reflections are still quarter res. Not really great looking.
- Still way better reflections vs Forza motersport. Still has that high roughness cutoff, so all types of materials have appropriate reflections.
- Dragons Dogma 2, not much footage again.
- 60fps, looks to be using PSSR, not seeing ugly checkerboard artifacts.
- AC shadows, also limited footage.
- 60fps and 864p, PSSR.
- Lots of fast motion, some of the post processing does not look great.
Rest of the video is answering questions and doing some own speculation regarding PS5 Pro boost mode that allows the entire +45% of the GPU to be applied to games that don’t get dedicated Pro patches.
- Compared to 4070, 4K DLAA DRS, Max setting.
- Pro footage is softer. Didn’t really look like 4K.
- Shadows and volumetrics look different, same thing is observed on the base PS5 version.
- It appears Forbidden West is not using PSSR. Still using 4K checkerboard but not quite 100% sure.
- Absolutely no sign of improved effects mentioned in the reveal video. No improved lighting.
- Richard stressed that these are retrofit patches, the developers are busy with other projects. Not a lot of development effort is going to be spent on these Pro modes.
- Hogwarts Legacy has more reflections but the reflections have way more breakup and noise because of this. Seemingly a higher roughness cutoff so more objects have reflections but lots more noise because of this. Probably because UE4 allows for some objects to have less rays which in turn leads to more noise. Bit of a mixed bag.
- RT shadows are included, look a bit odd and misaligned in some spots looks to be mixed with screen space shadows. Lake reflections are not RT.
- Footage supplied is 30fps.
- GT7 has RT reflections during gameplay.
- Immediate reaction is the game looks noticeably lower resolution.
- Pixel count is 1188p, upscale to 4K via PSSR. Huge drop in resolution.
- RT reflections are still quarter res. Not really great looking.
- Still way better reflections vs Forza motersport. Still has that high roughness cutoff, so all types of materials have appropriate reflections.
- Dragons Dogma 2, not much footage again.
- 60fps, looks to be using PSSR, not seeing ugly checkerboard artifacts.
- AC shadows, also limited footage.
- 60fps and 864p, PSSR.
- Lots of fast motion, some of the post processing does not look great.
Rest of the video is answering questions and doing some own speculation regarding PS5 Pro boost mode that allows the entire +45% of the GPU to be applied to games that don’t get dedicated Pro patches.
PeteBull
Member
If its relatively stable 60fps in DD2, its definitely gamechanger
akira__
Banned
Senua
Member
Embrace the pssr secret saucePssr is some of the most secret sauce I've ever seen. It's going save the generation
Zathalus
Member
My thoughts on what has been revealed so far is that the GPU is exactly as powerful as Sony claims it is, 45% increase in GPU power, no real secret sauce special upgrade that Sony is keeping secret. PSSR is the real deal, better than FSR 3.1 but not as good as DLSS. Obviously has room to improve and you’d be hard pressed to notice differences in a TV at regular viewing distance. The uplift in power for RT seems to have been over hyped a bit (for now), that drop in resolution for GT7, mixed bag for RT in Hogwarts at 30fps, zero other RT effects in Ratchet & Clank, and zero RT in Alan Wake 2 60fps is pretty telling.
But, as DF pointed out, these are all patches to existing games that developers probably did on the quick. Hopefully we shall see better results in future as developers come to grips with the hardware.
But, as DF pointed out, these are all patches to existing games that developers probably did on the quick. Hopefully we shall see better results in future as developers come to grips with the hardware.
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Senua
Member
Why are you so bitter dude, where did DF touch you? FSR sucks and always has, I don't remember DF ever praising it. FSR2 was a nice upgrade from FSR1 though. It went from shit to kinda shit
Kaiserstark
Member
It's me or the resolutions for Alan Wake 2 are weird because on the PS5 it was :
- Quality: FSR2. 1272p used to upcale to 2160p
- Performance. FSR2 872p used to upscale to 1440p
So they use an even lower resolution for performance mode on PRO than on the base PS5 ?
kevboard
Member
I'm not gonna watch this entire segment... gimme a timestamp of what you take issue with there.
but speaking about Wukong, they have stated multiple times now that they find it weird that the devs use FSR in the console version, when the game has access to TSR which is superior.
so not sure how you use Wukong as an example here
Zathalus
Member
It’s probably the same, but they only had 6 seconds of footage to count on. Also Alex said around 864p and 1260p ish. So likely the same I’d wager, just didn’t really have enough footage to be 100% exact.
kevboard
Member
quality mode having the same resolution would make sense if they add RT reflections. that could be taxing enough to make additional resolution improvements a bit too demanding.
performance mode could have increased settings and overall superior image quality due to PSSR even when running at a lower internal res.
Zathalus
Member
For quality mode I think they replaced FSR with PSSR, added RT reflections, and DF speculated maybe some settings have been increased such as post processing (they couldn’t really tell). Performance mode is the same, with FSR replaced with PSSR, no RT reflections, and maybe upped settings. For performance mode I’d assume a locked 60 and no more drops like the base model.
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