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[Pedro Motta]

You enjoy your closed garden and Concord.

Let us enjoy Xbox with open ecosystem and gamepass.

Sales doesn't matter anymore. With pc store support all games will come to it automatically.

 

[Three]

I already own a PS5, which will probably give me access to every first party Playstation title for the next 8-10 years. The cross-gen period is going to be crazy long next generation

Not a chance. Sure there will be a crossgen period but even with PS5 you had Returnal, R&C, and Demon's souls early in the gen that you couldn't play on old gen. 3 years into the gen it was nothing but PS5 releases with Spiderman 2, Helldivers 2, Stellar Blade, etc.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Steamdeck has an added value for core gamers.
What is added value of next Xbox compared to alternatives?

Not sure if serious…..

Having an easy to use box where I can play every game except Nintendo ones.

Upgradable every 4 yrs cause of off the shelf parts. So wouldn't suffer too much compared to pc parts.

Expensive but well worth it imo.

This would simplify my hardware purchases quite a bit.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Not a chance. Sure there will be a crossgen period but even with PS5 you had Returnal, R&C, and Demon's souls early in the gen that you couldn't play on old gen. 3 years into the gen it was nothing but PS5 releases with Spiderman 2, Helldivers 2, Stellar Blade, etc.

Early ps5 gen Sony mindset is much different from the current mindset.
I doubt we will have any ps6 exclusives at launch. If we do it will be the remaster of the remake of the remaster of TLOU 1/2.

 

[Three]

Early ps5 gen Sony mindset is much different from the current mindset.
I doubt we will have any ps6 exclusives at launch. If we do it will be the remaster of the remake of the remaster of TLOU 1/2.

We'll see. I bet there are a couple even in the launch window. Even now you have Astrobot and DS2 releasing on PS5 only so when they're trying to sell a new console they will make exclusives.

 

[Felessan]

.This would simplify my hardware purchases quite a bit.

Yours and others in a small # of millions. Hardly justifiable for new product
It will have price disadvantage over PS6, Performance/Utility disadvantage over PC
High performance PC where new Xbox targets are not exactly a big niche and most of it in Asia (especially in China) / Europe where Xbox will not light the fire anyway.
So it's just another random attempt of headless chicken that will repulse people even more.
Xbox just doesn't know what to do, a completely clueless strategy where it goes from one extreme to another, often inconsistent with other goals - how focusing on high performance PC with Steam access helps gamepass filled with mediocre, old and indie games. For it XSS was the most valid strategy, didn't help a lot though because gamepass itself is a troubled strategy, too much pressure from f2p gaas for value provided.

 

[Felessan]

.This would simplify my hardware purchases quite a bit.

Yours and others in a small # of millions. Hardly justifiable for new product
It will have price disadvantage over PS6, Performance/Utility disadvantage over PC
High performance PC where new Xbox targets are not exactly a big niche and most of it in Asia (especially in China) / Europe where Xbox will not light the fire anyway.
So it's just another random attempt of headless chicken that will repulse people even more.
Xbox just doesn't know what to do, a completely clueless strategy where it goes from one extreme to another, often inconsistent with other goals - how focusing on high performance PC with Steam access helps gamepass filled with mediocre, old and indie games. For it XSS was the most valid strategy, didn't help a lot though because gamepass itself is a troubled strategy, too much pressure from f2p gaas for value provided.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Yours and others in a small # of millions. Hardly justifiable for new product
It will have price disadvantage over PS6, Performance/Utility disadvantage over PC
High performance PC where new Xbox targets are not exactly a big niche and most of it in Asia (especially in China) / Europe where Xbox will not light the fire anyway.
So it's just another random attempt of headless chicken that will repulse people even more.
Xbox just doesn't know what to do, a completely clueless strategy where it goes from one extreme to another, often inconsistent with other goals - how focusing on high performance PC with Steam access helps gamepass filled with mediocre, old and indie games. For it XSS was the most valid strategy, didn't help a lot though because gamepass itself is a troubled strategy, too much pressure from f2p gaas for value provided.

Whatever floats your boat.

Most console warriors simply default to sales as their argument, mostly cause thats all they have.

Xbox doesn't have sales but has everything else.

 

[Felessan]

Whatever floats your boat.

Most console warriors simply default to sales as their argument, mostly cause thats all they have.

Xbox doesn't have sales but has everything else.

I default to general picture
Where many things, including sales, are important.

Like mentioned Steamdeck doesn't have a hella lot of sales but does have presence and importance, and thus a lot of followers and even big ones like Sony and MS looking his way (it's actually his and not Nintendo) - because Steamdeck showed though limited but a success of portable device targeted to young adult audience that was thought to be lost to mobile

And Xbox now have close to zero point of growth and it only continue to damage it's image and brand, further pushing itself into irrelevancy.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I default to general picture
Where many things, including sales, are important.

Like mentioned Steamdeck doesn't have a hella lot of sales but does have presence and importance, and thus a lot of followers and even big ones like Sony and MS looking his way (it's actually his and not Nintendo) - because Steamdeck showed though limited but a success of portable device targeted to young adult audience that was thought to be lost to mobile

And Xbox now have close to zero point of growth and it only continue to damage it's image and brand, further pushing itself into irrelevancy.

I will keep your concerns in mind while enjoying additional feature set that Xbox will provide.

Not saying much before its released.

But an open system with console experience and gamepass…. yeah, good luck to you fighting this good fight.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I default to general picture
Where many things, including sales, are important.

Like mentioned Steamdeck doesn't have a hella lot of sales but does have presence and importance, and thus a lot of followers and even big ones like Sony and MS looking his way (it's actually his and not Nintendo) - because Steamdeck showed though limited but a success of portable device targeted to young adult audience that was thought to be lost to mobile

And Xbox now have close to zero point of growth and it only continue to damage it's image and brand, further pushing itself into irrelevancy.

Just my 2 cents but I don't really understand why sales figures are important to anyone when making a console purchase

I sure don't care about sales figures in anything I buy

 

[Ebrietas]

Idk I can see it doing well. I just depends on pricing. There are millions of Steam users right now. And I'd imagine some (including myself) who probably wouldn't mind getting a console if it could play their games with high fidelity and without all the quirks of PC gaming - shader stutters, shader compilations or just plain poor optimization. Plus you get things like quick resume etc that lets you jump in and out of games quickly. That's one of my favorite features on my Steam Deck and consoles that I wished Windows had.

Lol, who knew you could fix PC gaming's problems simply by slapping a Xbox sticker on the case.

 

[Ashamam]

Just my 2 cents but I don't really understand why sales figures are important to anyone when making a console purchase

Its not important for a win, but it can be important for how much value you get out of your purchase, whether that be titles that potentially skip your console, maybe increased costs on games or subs and how soon you might be pushed to replace the console... So ecosystem health is pretty important and is directly related to sales.

 

[Ebrietas]

Just my 2 cents but I don't really understand why sales figures are important to anyone when making a console purchase

I sure don't care about sales figures in anything I buy

If you were a stadia fan, its user adoption (or "sales figures") certainly impacted your enjoyment of the platform. Greatly so.

Consoles are not like a pair of high cost headphones you can sell to a certain niche. They actually need to be supported by developers/publishers, who need a valid business case to do so. Otherwise you are left with an expensive paperweight.

 

[FireFly]

Yours and others in a small # of millions. Hardly justifiable for new product
It will have price disadvantage over PS6, Performance/Utility disadvantage over PC

I don't see why there would be a utility disadvantage vs. PC unless you're talking about upgradability. That's assuming the box just runs regular Windows. Performance/price wise Microsoft could be very competitive, since they can save costs by integrating everything together and cutting out the AIBs. It just depends what they decide to charge for it.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Its not important for a win, but it can be important for how much value you get out of your purchase, whether that be titles that potentially skip your console, maybe increased costs on games or subs and how soon you might be pushed to replace the console... So ecosystem health is pretty important and is directly related to sales.

None of which matters to me when I am buying a future console

100% hypothetical here

Lets say the next Xbox console (a real console) or maybe the PS6 pro extreme launches next year and is a complete unit that runs anything I want to play (GTA 6 anyone) at the best possible performance

I am not sitting here thinking I may skip this purchase because maybe somewhere down the road game X MIGHT not come to my console

Everything you mention is maybe this maybe that, its not how I pick what I am going to buy

If you were a stadia fan, its user adoption (or "sales figures") certainly impacted your enjoyment of the platform. Greatly so.

Consoles are not like a pair of high quality headphones you can sell to a niche. They actually need to be supported by developers. Otherwise you are left with an expensive paperweight.

Taking a chance on a completely new product that most people knew was doomed is a totally different

By far the majority of people saw that presentation and were like, nahh I am good

There is no argument anyone can present to me to make sales figures matter to me in future purchases

 

[Felessan]

Just my 2 cents but I don't really understand why sales figures are important to anyone when making a console purchase

I sure don't care about sales figures in anything I buy

People who bought WiiU not out of their deep love of Nintendo was, probably, felt abandoned when support for their platform ended abruptly.
Sales mean health of platform and it always was the case and even for Xbox Series we see subtle mentioning it as a problem, IOI to abandon or some games deprioritize/delay ports (especially asian ones where you probably can buy console exclusivity for very cheap). And if you want you platform of choice to be healthy and don't want have a zoo of platforms, you should think about sales.

I always think 5 or even 10 years in the future and I want to be on the right side of history and not keep dead box with hundreds BC titles just because "ah, who cares about sales" some years prior. I never persists on such approach for tohers, not everyone even can do it, but for me personally looking at bigger picture and future consequences (and sales are big part of it) is a strong basis for decisions.
For pretty much same reason I don't cling too much on SP games as they go downhill and I expect they will continue to do so until their share not stabilize at 15-20%. No point in fighting windmills - trends will continue even if shout "No" as hard as I can. But at least I can choose sides and prepare for inevitable beforehand.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

People who bought WiiU not out of their deep love of Nintendo was, probably, felt abandoned when support for their platform ended abruptly.
Sales mean health of platform and it always was the case and even for Xbox Series we see subtle mentioning it as a problem, IOI to abandon or some games deprioritize/delay ports (especially asian ones where you probably can buy console exclusivity for very cheap). And if you want you platform of choice to be healthy and don't want have a zoo of platforms, you should think about sales.

I always think 5 or even 10 years in the future and I want to be on the right side of history and not keep dead box with hundreds BC titles just because "ah, who cares about sales" some years prior. I never persists on such approach for tohers, not everyone even can do it, but for me personally looking at bigger picture and future consequences (and sales are big part of it) is a strong basis for decisions.
For pretty much same reason I don't cling too much on SP games as they go downhill and I expect they will continue to do so until their share not stabilize at 15-20%. No point in fighting windmills - trends will continue even if shout "No" as hard as I can. But at least I can choose sides and prepare for inevitable beforehand.

Again I never base my console buying decisions on what might be happening in 10 years or ending up on the right side of history

I have purchased a lot of defunct consoles and sure was sad support ended but never regret buying any of them

I will never take into account what sales might look like in buying anything, I just don't care what others are buying

 

[Ebrietas]

None of which matters to me when I am buying a future console

100% hypothetical here

Lets say the next Xbox console (a real console) or maybe the PS6 pro extreme launches next year and is a complete unit that runs anything I want to play (GTA 6 anyone) at the best possible performance

I am not sitting here thinking I may skip this purchase because maybe somewhere down the road game X MIGHT not come to my console

Everything you mention is maybe this maybe that, its not how I pick what I am going to buy


Taking a chance on a completely new product that most people knew was doomed is a totally different

By far the majority of people saw that presentation and were like, nahh I am good

There is no argument anyone can present to me to make sales figures matter to me in future purchases

I'm saying a new Xbox console, as in a Series X "2" and not just a Xbox themed PC, is in that stadia category of you know it's doomed from the start. You may have no problem buying it anyway but that's not how most people would approach an expensive purchase like this. Software support going forward matters.

 

[hinch7]

Right, if you're getting a PC, and Microsoft are offering a box than can play Xbox and PC games, I don't know why you wouldn't consider it. Like for example I assume GTA 6 will be playable at least in some kind of backwards compatibility mode, and if the PC port isn't out, then it gives you a way of playing the game.

Yeah and plus having something like this would make for a nice complementary device and for on the go. As someone who's just playing mostly PC these days and have very little interest in consoles - especially after this generation. This might be a good mid point for those in between or just aren't interested into buying into another ecosystem outside Steam. And for those who want to play with their friends on PC without buying a whole new PC and messing around just to get a few games in.

Lol, who knew you could fix PC gaming's problems simply by slapping a Xbox sticker on the case.

No shit, its fixed hardware. And a console. Not sure how many times this needs to be iterated. Microsoft and AMD not enough for you?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I'm saying a new Xbox console, as in a Series X "2" and not just a Xbox themed PC, is in that stadia category of you know it's doomed from the start. You may have no problem buying it anyway but that's not how most people would approach an expensive purchase like this. Software support going forward matters.

Oh I totally agree the next Xbox is doomed, I mean Xbox hardware in general is doomed

Unlike Stadia I sure don't see Xbox just shutting off everyone's Xbox and no one can predict what games MIGHT skip Xbox in the future, maybe smaller dev teams will

But none of this will stop me at least of buying the X2 IF its powerful enough

Btw, I am not trying to convince anyone to change their minds, just saying no one is convincing me sales matter (to me)

 

[FireFly]

I'm saying a new Xbox console, as in a Series X "2" and not just a Xbox themed PC, is in that stadia category of you know it's doomed from the start. You may have no problem buying it anyway but that's not how most people would approach an expensive purchase like this. Software support going forward matters.

The "worst case" would be getting a semi-portable PC that's not upgradable but has access to the Xbox back catalogue. If it's plugged into a TV, you'd have to access the Steam store through a controller, and have to deal with all the issues of gaming on a PC, but it wouldn't be a brick. It makes a lot more sense from a PC-first perspective since then the back catalogue is just an added bonus and the real issue would be the pricing.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I'm saying a new Xbox console, as in a Series X "2" and not just a Xbox themed PC, is in that stadia category of you know it's doomed from the start.

Series X2 is out of equation. AFAIK, MS has dismantled teams that designed the console, and distributed/sold the console.

 

[Ebrietas]

Yeah and plus having something like this would make for a nice complementary device and for on the go. As someone who's just playing mostly PC these days and have very little interest in consoles - especially after this generation. This might be a good mid point for those in between or just aren't interested into buying into another ecosystem outside Steam. And for those who want to play with their friends on PC without buying a whole new PC and messing around just to get a few games in.

No shit, its fixed hardware. And a console.

If it's a console then how is it running PC games?

If it's just a fixed spec PC then it will suffer from all the same quirks of PC gaming unless specifically optimized for. An Xbox themed overlay won't magically fix stutter.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I haven't been following the conversation,
Is it safe to assume that next gen focus will be RT and upscaling?

 

[Ozriel]

Not a chance. Sure there will be a crossgen period but even with PS5 you had Returnal, R&C, and Demon's souls early in the gen that you couldn't play on old gen. 3 years into the gen it was nothing but PS5 releases with Spiderman 2, Helldivers 2, Stellar Blade, etc.

I'd be shocked if there's anything in the first 3 years of the PS6 gen that couldn't run on the PS5 Pro and hence the PS5. Thanks to Sony using a very fast SSD in the PS5.

If it's a console then how is it running PC games?

If it's just a fixed spec PC then it will suffer from all the same quirks of PC gaming unless specifically optimized for. An Xbox themed overlay won't magically fix stutter.

If it's a fixed spec hardware, why would devs not optimize for it?

 

[Ebrietas]

I'd be shocked if there's anything in the first 3 years of the PS6 gen that couldn't run on the PS5 Pro and hence the PS5. Thanks to Sony using a very fast SSD in the PS5.



If it's a fixed spec hardware, why would devs not optimize for it?

Same reason they don't optimize for other fixed spec PCs. They're not going to optimize for something that only amounts to 0.1% of the market. They barely optimize as is, even for market leading devices.

 

[Three]

I'd be shocked if there's anything in the first 3 years of the PS6 gen that couldn't run on the PS5 Pro and hence the PS5. Thanks to Sony using a very fast SSD in the PS5.

Sometimes it isn't about what can't run but about shifting audiences with an exclusive game built for it. Donkey kong bananza could probably run fine on a Switch 1. If an open world game like HFW can get a PS4 port there is no reason Demons Souls couldn't, yet it was a PS5 exclusive to show off the PS5. You will see exclusives, especially if you're going all the way up to the first 3 years.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

Not a chance. Sure there will be a crossgen period but even with PS5 you had Returnal, R&C, and Demon's souls early in the gen that you couldn't play on old gen. 3 years into the gen it was nothing but PS5 releases with Spiderman 2, Helldivers 2, Stellar Blade, etc.

Playstation is coming out with their own handheld in a couple years. Every one of their games will be compatible with it. And if a game is running on their handheld, it will easily be playable on the PS5. Maybe there could be a PS6 exclusive remake like Demon Souls at launch, but even that I doubt. The PS5 will have access to every Playstation AAA first party title for the next decade or so

 

[Three]

Playstation is coming out with their own handheld in a couple years. Every one of their games will be compatible with it. And if a game is running on their handheld, it will easily be playable on the PS5. Maybe there could be a PS6 exclusive remake like Demon Souls at launch, but even that I doubt. The PS5 will have access to every Playstation AAA first party title for the next decade or so

 

[Darsxx82]

Same reason they don't optimize for other fixed spec PCs. They're not going to optimize for something that only amounts to 0.1% of the market. They barely optimize as is, even for market leading devices.

Has anyone said that MS won't be supporting this new Xbox Next with its respective DevKit, APIs, tools, etc., as it has done with each generation? The situation in this regard shouldn't be any different than what's happening with the X Series.

In any case, even the optimization work on that XboxStore version of the game would be translate to the PC version (on Steam, Epic, CoG, etc.) that also could play this XboxNext (and family chips), since the development base would be practically the same.

 

[Three]

Has anyone said that MS won't be supporting this new Xbox Next with its respective DevKit, APIs, tools, etc., as it has done with each generation? The situation in this regard shouldn't be any different than what's happening with the X Series.

You mean when you were making excuses about tools not being ready? When you were saying Epic were more familiar with PS5 because that's what they concentrated on and it wasn't xbox's fault for poorly optimised demos/games?

How is that different to what he's saying?

 

[pacman4000]

That's actually possible. Extremely unlikely, though.

But if the APU is goingto be a chiplet, where the CPU and GPU are mostly separate components, then an argument can be made that we could also have a clear distinction between VRAM and system RAM. Where like 12GB of GDDR7 is used for VRAM exclusively, and like 8-12GB of LPDDRx is used for the CPU.

Sounds more expensive and complicated than just using 4GB GDDR7 chips, though.

read post above... the clamshell design isnt as simple as it sounds. Its not just having more mem chips, its also have a far more complex PCB.

It would be cheaper to use an 8 channel APU with 8 x 3GB mem chips to get 24GB, than to use a 6 channel APU with 12 x 2GB cause technically you have to have 12 mem channels for the clamshell to work (6 on either side of a PCB), and thats a far more expensive PCB in addition to just having way more mem modules. Also the added risk on increased potential points of failure complicates manufacturing.

The only time anyone goes for clamshells, is never to save cost, its when there is just no other way to get the required memory capacity. In this case, there are already going to be cheaper paths.

What paths?

Going away from unified memory architecture doesn't sound like a Cerny thing to do... Who knows, but as of now I'm gonna assume PS6 uses unified GDDR-memory like PS5.

We don't know if 4GB modules will be available in time for 2027 but as of now I'm gonna assume they won't be.

That leaves us with 12, 18, 24 or 36 GB unified GDDR7 (assuming the 192 bit bus from the leak is correct).

12 is obviously not gonna happen. 18 sounds too little too - it would be downright sad. So yeah, this might be a case where clam-shell is needed to get the required capacity.

24 is the most likely here, especially since it gives them the opportunity to go away from the clam shell configuration later in the life cycle.

The added complexity/price for clam-shell didn't stop PS4 and it didn't stop 7600XT or 9060XT 16G to just cost slightly above $300. I think you are overestimating the added cost here.

Edit: Before this leak I was certain that the PS6 would be 256 bit and 24GB unified GDDR7. A natural evolution over the PS5 (and the PS4). But this leak changes everything. It isn't as easily predicted anymore. Hence lots of assumptions above.

 

[Darsxx82]

You mean when you were making excuses about tools not being ready? When you were saying Epic were more familiar with PS5 because that's what they concentrated on and it wasn't xbox's fault for poorly optimised demos/games?

How is that different to what he's saying?

It's different because he's hinted that optimization on that Xbox Next is going to be reduced to the same as any studio does for any PC, and that everything will be reduced to brute force and considering it just another PC.

And I wonder at what point it was stated that MS isn't going to provide the same support and help to developers as it does for the X Series (aka DevKit, tools, etc...). Which doesn't mean that the level of support and optimization will be better or worse than Sony's for its consoles.

I'm sure you understood

P.S. It's just as true that for several initial years MS wasn't up to par with the tools... but for quite some time now, game optimization on the X Series has been quite good in general, a sign that things have been improving in that regard.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

What paths?

Going away from unified memory architecture doesn't sound like a Cerny thing to do... Who knows, but as of now I'm gonna assume PS6 uses unified GDDR-memory like PS5.

We don't know if 4GB modules will be available in time for 2027 but as of now I'm gonna assume they won't be.

That leaves us with 12, 18, 24 or 36 GB unified GDDR7 (assuming the 192 bit bus from the leak is correct).

12 is obviously not gonna happen. 18 sounds too little too - it would be downright sad. So yeah, this might be a case where clam-shell is needed to get the required capacity.

24 is the most likely here, especially since it gives them the opportunity to go away from the clam shell configuration later in the life cycle.

The added complexity/price for clam-shell didn't stop PS4 and it didn't stop 7600XT or 9060XT 16G to just cost slightly above $300. I think you are overestimating the added cost here.

We are in agreement. Yes, if 192bit is accurate, we can only get 12, 18 or 24GB respectively, With the last option being the clamshell one. And this is on the assumption that between now and sometime in 2028, no one is making 4GB chips.

And I am not overestimating the costs... you just have to look at it from the perspective of an OEM. Sony would be making 10s of millions more consoles than AMD would be making any specific model of GPU.

Anyways not saying there is anyting wrong with clamshell... just that it willl only be used if they plan on having at least 20GB+ of RAM and there are no 4GB chips yet.

 

[reinking]

and new version of PSVR

...I don't think we are getting that.

 

[PeteBull]

I haven't been following the conversation,
Is it safe to assume that next gen focus will be RT and upscaling?

Yes, and no worries, u will come back to this holidays 2027 when all/most the info is already in the open and that will be time for some srs conclusions/decisions.

 

[Loxus]

We are in agreement. Yes, if 192bit is accurate, we can only get 12, 18 or 24GB respectively, With the last option being the clamshell one. And this is on the assumption that between now and sometime in 2028, no one is making 4GB chips.

And I am not overestimating the costs... you just have to look at it from the perspective of an OEM. Sony would be making 10s of millions more consoles than AMD would be making any specific model of GPU.

Anyways not saying there is anyting wrong with clamshell... just that it willl only be used if they plan on having at least 20GB+ of RAM and there are no 4GB chips yet.

Yet.

24Gb (3GB) and more is expected before 2027.
Micron reveals the future of GDDR7 memory
One of the most interesting aspects of GDDR7 isn't its raw bandwidth, it's the memory's planned capacities. 16Gb (2GB), 24Gb (3GB), 32Gb (4GB), 48GB (6GB), and 64GB (8GB) modules are part of the GDDR7 standard.

 

[Radical_3d]

Yeah, so? It'll be more than 2X in practice because of other improvements - bandwidth, RT h/w, advanced AI upscaling, etc.
It will likely be a similar step visually to what we've got between PS4 and 5 with the main exception this time being the absence of target framerate doubling (the 30->60 switch).

You do know that other generations saw other improvements as well as raw power, do you?

 

[Radical_3d]

None of which matters to me when I am buying a future console

100% hypothetical here

Lets say the next Xbox console (a real console) or maybe the PS6 pro extreme launches next year and is a complete unit that runs anything I want to play (GTA 6 anyone) at the best possible performance

I am not sitting here thinking I may skip this purchase because maybe somewhere down the road game X MIGHT not come to my console

Everything you mention is maybe this maybe that, its not how I pick what I am going to buy

Well, you are filthy rich. I mean, even for USA standards you're loaded. But people that are purchasing digital games will get more value for their money if they can play them on future generations. Most of us here in GAF would simply buy it again in the new ecosystem but that's not mainstream. Mainstream are the people spending 400€ in a console and buying games on sales.

Edit: sorry for double posting : P

 

[yogaflame]

I want Ps6 to launch late 2028 or early 2029 but why do I have this feeling of excitement and sensation right now? This is also one of the reason. President of Sony, a big shot visiting Kojima Production, possible congratulating Kojima team for Ds2 success and preparing for Ps6 launch game, Physint.



I just hope Ps6 is affordable, and if I may be asking too much, to be back ward compatible from Ps1 to Ps5 or at least Ps3 to Ps5.

 

[pacman4000]

We are in agreement. Yes, if 192bit is accurate, we can only get 12, 18 or 24GB respectively, With the last option being the clamshell one. And this is on the assumption that between now and sometime in 2028, no one is making 4GB chips.

And I am not overestimating the costs... you just have to look at it from the perspective of an OEM. Sony would be making 10s of millions more consoles than AMD would be making any specific model of GPU.

Anyways not saying there is anyting wrong with clamshell... just that it willl only be used if they plan on having at least 20GB+ of RAM and there are no 4GB chips yet.

So...what do you think they will do?

Given all assumptions I think clamshell 2GB chips is the most likely scenario. Not ideal but the alternatives feels even worse.

 

[pacman4000]

Yet.

24Gb (3GB) and more is expected before 2027.
Micron reveals the future of GDDR7 memory
One of the most interesting aspects of GDDR7 isn't its raw bandwidth, it's the memory's planned capacities. 16Gb (2GB), 24Gb (3GB), 32Gb (4GB), 48GB (6GB), and 64GB (8GB) modules are part of the GDDR7 standard.

What do you mean? 3GB is available now. [in limited numbers from Samsung]

 

[Loxus]

What do you mean? 3GB is available now. [in limited numbers from Samsung]

Notice I said "and more".
So there's 4, 6, and 8GB modules we could see the consoles using.

 

[PlayStaytion]

Based on this PS6 raster target could be around 5070 which is similar to PS5 targeting 2070 in 2020. That's about 20% lower raster performance than 9700 XT. Magnus could be around 5080 raster performance.

The big unknown is RT/PT performance (that was also unknown for PS5 as many were thinking it wouldn't even have hardware RT).

The 5080 with all it's feature sets turned on is basically a 30fps box @4k

 

[Panajev2001a]

Notice I said "and more".
So there's 4, 6, and 8GB modules we could see the consoles using.

Which puts 32 GB back on the menu (ok 36 GB unless they have a wider RAM bus). Still, I think 24 GB is a very tiny increase that would have to last for the platform till PS7 and as total system + graphics memory would keep the system back.

Sure, less RAM and at a smaller bus width you do save quite a lot of power (if power consumption is a big concern… and well, if they follow the same design strategy as PS5 pushing power consumption down would allow them much a cheaper cooling solution too).

 

[Xyphie]

lol

48-64Gbit DRAM dies are ready for a PS7 timeframe maybe.

8Gbit -> 16Gbit was about 5 years (2015->2020), 16Gbit -> 24Gbit is taking another 5. HBM roadmap puts this stuff well into the 2030s, and this is with the least price-sensitive customers you can imagine.

 

[SplunkyMunkey]

Why can't sony or cerny be smart and just stick with a capable gpu with 60CU's and go from there instead of making a weak ass ps6 console and expect to fork out yet again with the pro version

 

[Loxus]

lol

48-64Gbit DRAM dies are ready for a PS7 timeframe maybe.

8Gbit -> 16Gbit was about 5 years (2015->2020), 16Gbit -> 24Gbit is taking another 5. HBM roadmap puts this stuff well into the 2030s, and this is with the least price-sensitive customers you can imagine.

I find ChatGPT to be rather reasonable, but for some reason it keeps projecting HBM to fall in price enough to be customer memory by that time.

It's reasoning is manufacturing maturity, economies of scale, increased competition, packaging cost reduction, etc.

 

[Ronin_7]

You enjoy your closed garden and Concord.

Let us enjoy Xbox with open ecosystem and gamepass.

Sales doesn't matter anymore. With pc store support all games will come to it automatically.