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[Mammoth Jones]

I was not up for owning a gun, until I almost had a break-in by two dudes and my friend, who was living here, big and buff guy, scared them off. Now he doesn't live here anymore.
Now, I armed myself. its always good to be ready for crazies.

Had a crack head in the 80's try and kick in our back door to our home. I was young at the time but when I heard that bang downstairs and saw my pops hauling ass with his shotgun in hand I knew something terrible was going down. He has the glass broken and couldn't open the lock so he was just kicking the door when he saw my dad with a gun and decided to run away. My dad didn't chase him and we never had another break in/attempt.

Shit happens. Be prepared is what I say.

 

[ZZMitch]

These gun issues seen some foreign to me sometimes lol.

I have never owned or shot a gun and I live in the US or even seen one really. I guess people either like to blow things out of proportion, or maybe it is just where I live (Maine).

 

[LuchaShaq]

These gun issues seen some foreign to me sometimes lol.

I have never owned or shot a gun and I live in the US or even seen one really. I guess people either like to blow things out of proportion, or maybe it is just where I live (Maine).

Honestly it's where you live.

When I lived with my parents in the suburbs? Of course guns never came up except for video games or hunting.

In densely populated area with problems with junkies and alot of desperate people financially? The likelihood of something bad happening obviously skyrockets.

 

[Funky Papa]

European gun owner here.

The thing that irks me about this whole thing is that you don't need to have them banned. Actually, from my experience only a tiny minority of Americans would like to end gun ownership in any shape or form.

Gun crime in my country is by all means a tiny issue, in no small part because arms are so incredibly controlled that it would be nigh impossible for gangs to obtain them through straw purchases and shady dealers, which are the main sources of illegal weapons in America.

Here's a quick step by step guide of everything you need to do in my neck of the woods in order to obtain a gun:

1. First, you have to undergo some physical and mental tests, paid out of your pocket (around €40). They are extremely basic, but enough to deter the craziest elements (read: a total psycho) from getting a gun.
2. Second, you need to fill an official form and obtain your police records in order to demonstrate that you are not a felon.
3. After that you pay a small fee to your local shooting federation (I think mine was about €50). This is an important step. After that you'll have to attend to several theoretical and practical classes. During two days you will learn everything you need to know about gun safety and laws. After that you'll be taken to the local range and shoot for three days. Teachers (and maybe the police, as sometimes they drop by to check on everybody) will keep tabs on you; in order to obtain a license you'll need to pass a final practical test and demonstrate that you are a responsible shooter.
4. Now you have your license. But you can't have your gun. National law stipulates that you need to keep your gun in an homologated safe at all times, so you have to purchase one.
5. Now you can buy a gun. You can either visit a gun store or purchase it from another gun owner. It should be noted that there is no such thing as over the counter gun purchases. After you pay for it the shop or individual in possession of said gun will send it to the police, that will inspect it and check its serial numbers.
6. Once it's been inspected police will contact you. You will have to produce a copy of your safe's documentation (showing that you own an actual, proper safe) and then the gun will be registered at your name.
7. Congratulations: you are now a freshly registered gun owner... but things won't stop here. Every few years you will have to visit your local police station with your guns in order to get them checked. This way police will know that you still own every arm registered at your name, making sure that you are not a straw seller, getting guns by legit means only to sell them to criminals.

It sounds like a lengthy and complex process and damn well it is, but this way:

a) Anybody who really wants a gun gets to own one.
b) Irresponsible buyers are discouraged; they simply don't have the patience to deal with all the red tape, not to mention safety classes.
c) It is IMPOSSIBLE to sell your guns to criminals without the police noticing it.

Now, there are many idiotic things in our gun legislation that make absolutely no fucking sense, such as silly caliber regulations and the like, but I think that this is the best possible approach to gun control. Of course, I know many Americans would freak the fuck out at some of those points, but I know it's a fair compromise and not that different from the requirements of owning a car, which also comes with significant responsibilities.

 

[danwarb]

It's easer to get away with shooting someone dead to "protect yourself in a public space" than if you beat them to death with a stick.

Easier to kill, and to get away with it.

 

[Always-honest]

I don't own a gun because I live in fear of my law abiding neighbors weapons. The insinuation that gun ownership is perpetuated out of fear of others owning a gun legally in flawed in the context in which you're attempting to apply it. I own a gun just in case a situation arises in which I'd like to defend myself, I can. Period. I don't know if you've ever had a junkie try to kick in your door or a burglar threaten to slash your spouses throat if she makes a sound but it happens and I'd prefer to have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it.

That's fear.
If i had a gun and someone would break in to my home i'd shoot him if i had the chance.
I can totally understand that. I know what people will do for for money. Most will only steal though, but you never know.

"One person with a serious mental conditions killed people with a gun today out of millions of gun owners....BAN ALL TEH BAD THINGS!!"

.

I don't think that way, but i do think horrible things can happen in panic situations.

Guns are great tools of self preservation. They (and the adult legally authorized to wield them) protected my ass twice when I was a kid. I own one because I truly believe my safety and the safety of my family is MY responsibility. The cops have said point blank it's not their responsibility. So I did what I had to do.

again, where you live there is a very big chance the other guy will have a gun.
You have no toher choice than to protect yourself with a gun. I would do the same if i lived where you live.

I'm not saying YOU are an idiot for having a gun. I'm saying i'd like you to live in a city/ country where you wouldn't feel the need to carry/ have a gun.
I do think that so many people having a gun will lead to faaar more unnecessary deaths.

 

[Vicetrailia]

I do think that so many people having a gun will lead to faaar more unnecessary deaths.

This is true. This is why we need good laws, great laws. Gun related deaths should always be met with great suspicion. People shouldn't be able to cling to and hide behind the law so easily.

 

[empty vessel]

again, where you live there is a very big chance the other guy will have a gun.
You have no toher choice than to protect yourself with a gun.

That's a bit strong. Most people live in New York without guns. In fact, if the numbers I've found are accurate, it looks like just 0.4% of the population are registered handgun owners. I'm not commenting on Mammoth Jones's decision to own, just saying that owning a gun is not remotely a requirement for living in New York safely.

 

[Always-honest]

That's a bit strong. Most people live in New York without guns. In fact, if the numbers I've found are accurate, it looks like just 0.4% of the population are registered handgun owners. I'm not commenting on Mammoth Jones's decision to own, just saying that owning a gun is not remotely a requirement for living in New York safely.

Sure, fair enough, but with "the other guy" i meant the person wanting to do wrong.
And i'm not sure how many people have a gun that isn't registered.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Funky,

Few questions and thoughts.

1. In Spain, is it true that military caliber bullets are restricted. Hence some Ruger Mini-14s chambered in .222 Remington, and guns chambered in .380, among others.
2. Personally I don't mind training, BUT I think it should be paid for by the state. Similar to how Hunter Safety courses are paid for by the 10%-11% excise tax collected by Pittman Roberts (ammo, guns, archery equipment and some other items). Otherwise you run a risk of discriminating against those with lower incomes. Besides NI and Serbia that firearm use is still mostly owned by members of the upper income strata?
I have some others, but I wanted to wait till I'm on nonphone keyboard.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

That's a bit strong. Most people live in New York without guns. In fact, if the numbers I've found are accurate, it looks like just 0.4% of the population are registered handgun owners. I'm not commenting on Mammoth Jones's decision to own, just saying that owning a gun is not remotely a requirement for living in New York safely.

Those statistics are because of NYC which has a huge population, and draconian laws on firearms. Those numbers also sound vastly off. The rest of NYS isn't as bad as NYC so the numbers can't be that low.

Also regarding registration I know in PA there is no registration for guns just the 4437 for long purchase not from private parties. For handgun purchases and transfers its a 4437 and PA State Police form, but in any case no registration. Besides I can sell a PA resident any long guns (shotgun to an AK) with no paperwork required.

 

[Funky Papa]

1. In Spain, is it true that military caliber bullets are restricted. Hence some Ruger Mini-14s chambered in .222 Remington, and guns chambered in .380, among others.

Pretty much everything below .50 BMG is legal with the exception of .223 bullets, which makes no sense. I believe that restriction comes from the times when military service was compulsory (mostly due to conscripts taking ammo from training courses for their parents and friends; I mean, people were skimming entire tins). Our gun control is essentially fine, but many other parts of our legislation are outdated, specially when it comes to modifications and arms limit.

2. Personally I don't mind training, BUT I think it should be paid for by the state. Similar to how Hunter Safety courses are paid for by the 10%-11% excise tax collected by Pittman Roberts (ammo, guns, archery equipment and some other items). Otherwise you run a risk of discriminating against those with lower incomes. Besides NI and Serbia that firearm use is still mostly owned by members of the upper income strata?
I have some others, but I wanted to wait till I'm on nonphone keyboard.

I can't speak for those countries, but safety courses are cheap and come included with the practical test. I think we are talking about less than €110 counting the medical tests and all the paperwork. The safe is considerably more expensive (mine came at a cost of €400, but I wanted one that could more than a couple of handguns).

 

[Szu]

Why would you own a nuke?

Because just owning one will put an end to most hostile situations.

 

[CrazedArabMan]

I want to fire a .50 cal rifle one day.

Trust me, they are a blast to shoot. As a huge gun lover, shooting is so much fun.

 

[Shake Appeal]

No offence to anyone in this thread, but as an outsider the American view of guns is so weird. This is all so alien to me. I can't comprehend ever having a casual conversation about my favourite type of weapon. I don't think I've ever seen one in real life that wasn't carried by a police officer.

In Ireland police officers don't even carry holstered weapons (I believe they have them in their cars?). The first time I saw a gun in real life was when I went to Portugal, aged 9, and the cops had them on their hips. It was creepy. Like seeing someone wear a snake on their belt.

America's gun problems are insoluble, though. The nature of the country's founding, the framing of the Constitution, the poorly worded Second Amendment, and over two hundred years of entrenched cultural values -- including an extremely negative view of 'liberty'; an inherent distrust of government; Manifest Destiny and American exceptionalism; a downright dangerous understanding of privacy/property and the rightful defense of such; a deeply-instilled sense of 'righteous' violence or vengeance; and a bonkers notion that civilian gun ownership is a check on tyranny... this stuff is incredibly complex, yet it's all explicable, and occasionally justifiable, in lights of the paths the United States took to get where they are.

But seriously it would take, like, a century or more of devoted, dedicated, single-minded, unified persuasion and legislation on this issue, not to mention an impossible Amendment and sweeping changes to national culture, to convince the US to fall in line with other developed countries on gun control. Never gonna happen.

 

[J-Rzez]

(I need a gun to protect me from "criminals," and when an American conjures up the image of a "criminal" in his mind, I'll give you one guess as to what that usually looks like to him)

They look like a meth head? Or someone in a ski mask? A desperate person? Criminals come in all shapes, colors, and sizes. A gun owner won't discriminate when someone breaks into their house and threatens someone's life. I think you were unfortunately born in the wrong era to fight the good fight.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

They look like a meth head? Or someone in a ski mask? A desperate person? Criminals come in all shapes, colors, and sizes. A gun owner won't discriminate when someone breaks into their house and threatens someone's life. I think you were unfortunately born in the wrong era to fight the good fight.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

That's fear.

No, it's being prepared. Fear would be rampant paranoia on a daily basis. I have my gun loaded in my home. I don't worry about much =)

If i had a gun and someone would break in to my home i'd shoot him if i had the chance.
I can totally understand that. I know what people will do for for money. Most will only steal though, but you never know.

I'm not going to wait and ask them how can I help them today. I'm going to shoot and defend myself.

I don't think that way, but i do think horrible things can happen in panic situations.

Identify your target before you fire. If you can manage that, you'll be ok.

again, where you live there is a very big chance the other guy will have a gun.
You have no toher choice than to protect yourself with a gun. I would do the same if i lived where you live.

Honestly, legal gun owners have NEVER EVER been a concern for me. Some douche that might want to kick in my door for a chance at some electronic gear is what worries me.

I'm not saying YOU are an idiot for having a gun. I'm saying i'd like you to live in a city/ country where you wouldn't feel the need to carry/ have a gun.
I do think that so many people having a gun will lead to faaar more unnecessary deaths.

I'd like to live in that perfect utopia as well. But since I don't I'm going to make choices based in reality. Not based on a reality I'd *like* to have. It's not a big deal, lol. I have guns. I shoot them on occasion at a range. I keep them loaded, but not chambered in my home. I don't have kids in my home.

 

[Vicetrailia]

I've lived in many high crime areas during my childhood and I still don't feel like I want a gun.

I'm just not a hobbyist. Protection? I'm good.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I've lived in many high crime areas during my childhood and I still don't feel like I want a gun.

I'm just not a hobbyist. Protection? I'm good.

And that's awesome. Good thing we let people decide for themselves about gun ownership.

Me? Fuck that. LMAO. I got too much on the line. Where I live the crime rate is considerably higher than the national average across all communities in America from the largest to the smallest, although at 37 crimes per one thousand residents, it is not among the communities with the very highest crime rates. The chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime where I'm at is 1 in 27. Based on FBI crime data, relative to New York, the crime rate where I'm at is higher than 91% of the state's cities and towns of all sizes.

So yea...I keep a fucking gun in my crib.

And I already hit the lotto on property crime about 3 weeks ago when there was a brawl outside my train station and my car got smashed to the point of the insurance company calling it a total loss.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

European gun owner here.

The thing that irks me about this whole thing is that you don't need to have them banned. Actually, from my experience only a tiny minority of Americans would like to end gun ownership in any shape or form.

Gun crime in my country is by all means a tiny issue, in no small part because arms are so incredibly controlled that it would be nigh impossible for gangs to obtain them through straw purchases and shady dealers, which are the main sources of illegal weapons in America.

Here's a quick step by step guide of everything you need to do in my neck of the woods in order to obtain a gun:

1. First, you have to undergo some physical and mental tests, paid out of your pocket (around €40). They are extremely basic, but enough to deter the craziest elements (read: a total psycho) from getting a gun.
2. Second, you need to fill an official form and obtain your police records in order to demonstrate that you are not a felon.
3. After that you pay a small fee to your local shooting federation (I think mine was about €50). This is an important step. After that you'll have to attend to several theoretical and practical classes. During two days you will learn everything you need to know about gun safety and laws. After that you'll be taken to the local range and shoot for three days. Teachers (and maybe the police, as sometimes they drop by to check on everybody) will keep tabs on you; in order to obtain a license you'll need to pass a final practical test and demonstrate that you are a responsible shooter.
4. Now you have your license. But you can't have your gun. National law stipulates that you need to keep your gun in an homologated safe at all times, so you have to purchase one.
5. Now you can buy a gun. You can either visit a gun store or purchase it from another gun owner. It should be noted that there is no such thing as over the counter gun purchases. After you pay for it the shop or individual in possession of said gun will send it to the police, that will inspect it and check its serial numbers.
6. Once it's been inspected police will contact you. You will have to produce a copy of your safe's documentation (showing that you own an actual, proper safe) and then the gun will be registered at your name.
7. Congratulations: you are now a freshly registered gun owner... but things won't stop here. Every few years you will have to visit your local police station with your guns in order to get them checked. This way police will know that you still own every arm registered at your name, making sure that you are not a straw seller, getting guns by legit means only to sell them to criminals.

It sounds like a lengthy and complex process and damn well it is, but this way:

a) Anybody who really wants a gun gets to own one.
b) Irresponsible buyers are discouraged; they simply don't have the patience to deal with all the red tape, not to mention safety classes.
c) It is IMPOSSIBLE to sell your guns to criminals without the police noticing it.

Now, there are many idiotic things in our gun legislation that make absolutely no fucking sense, such as silly caliber regulations and the like, but I think that this is the best possible approach to gun control. Of course, I know many Americans would freak the fuck out at some of those points, but I know it's a fair compromise and not that different from the requirements of owning a car, which also comes with significant responsibilities.

I would be in favor of similar requirements in the US. And like you pointed out, it's almost no different than the restrictions and requirements of owning a car.

Also, I have worked and lived in high crime areas in LA. Two of my brothers have been robbed at gunpoint, one coming out of a party the other while working the overnight shift at a Del Taco. I would rather part with property rather than my life. Carrying a gun for the most part is a psychological peace of mind Talk to any police officer or soldier who has had to use a gun and what they will say is that it's a whole other ballpark when in actual danger and whether or not you pull the trigger. They have a lot of training for that and the general population doesn't. I just don't trust most people with guns, hell I don't trust most people driving and that's certainly a more dangerous daily activity than we think.

 

[alphaNoid]

It's easer to get away with shooting someone dead to "protect yourself in a public space" than if you beat them to death with a stick.

Easier to kill, and to get away with it.

Its not about easier to kill and get away with, its simply about easier to protect yourself. I'll go further and add that every single gun owner I know is law abiding, trained and knows how to use a firearm. They are not the problem, I can assure you that.

The problem is the urban sprawl where untrained criminals get their hands on black market weapons and do stupid shit. Gun control doesn't do shit to stop the criminals, they are going to get a weapon if they really want one. Sometimes a little common sense goes a long way and if gun control wasn't such a political issue, I think most people wouldn't give a shit.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I would be in favor of similar requirements in the US. And like you pointed out, it's almost no different than the restrictions and requirements of owning a car.

Also, I have worked and lived in high crime areas in LA. Two of my brothers have been robbed at gunpoint, one coming out of a party the other while working the overnight shift at a Del Taco. I would rather part with property rather than my life. Carrying a gun for the most part is a psychological peace of mind Talk to any police officer or soldier who has had to use a gun and what they will say is that it's a whole other ballpark when in actual danger and whether or not you pull the trigger. They have a lot of training for that and the general population doesn't. I just don't trust most people with guns, hell I don't trust most people driving and that's certainly a more dangerous daily activity than we think.

As long as the tests aren't biased in any way shape or form for or against any particular group I wouldn't oppose it. But keeping the history of gun control in America in context, I'd have some concerns that it doesn't end up like literacy tests for voting did. In America the 2nd Amendment is our fundamental right. It's not a privilege to be granted to an elite.

 

[Angry Fork]

If I were starting a new country I would ban guns entirely, that includes for police except in extreme situations like SWAT. I wish this were the case in America but it's not going to happen anytime soon if ever. Since it's not going to happen I'm in favor of concealed carry for everyone. I think whatever police have, citizens should have as well and be able to protect themselves from anyone including police if they feel necessary.

Everyone should require a license with strict mandated training for everyone in order to possess both firearms + ammo. There are way too many blockhead retards that get guns in lax states without the proper training. If you legalize it all and enforce responsibility I feel that would be better than disarming people against authority figures in the event they overstep their boundaries. Police are able to act like god's on the street because they have weapons and people don't. Let people have weapons and we'll see what happens when they try brutality again.

With that being said I think 2 things are completely crazy and even if concealed carry were legalized for everyone I would want these 2 things to go away. 1. Automatic weapons. I would wager a minority of people use these for sport/fun. The rest use them to shoot people for fun. There is no reason to manufacture an uzi, get that shit out. 2. Children should not be given guns. I don't care how responsible you think they are or how fun you think it'll be for them to learn how worthless animal life is by allowing them to kill at 9. That shit is ridiculous. 16 should be the youngest but if you're going to give 16 year old guns they should be allowed to drink and do other adult shit too.

 

[Blackace]

We already fought a war over that.

The North lost..

 

[Mammoth Jones]

If I were starting a new country I would ban guns entirely, that includes for police except in extreme situations like SWAT. I wish this were the case in America but it's not going to happen anytime soon if ever. Since it's not going to happen I'm in favor of concealed carry for everyone. I think whatever police have, citizens should have as well and be able to protect themselves from anyone including police if they feel necessary.

Everyone should require a license with strict mandated training for everyone in order to possess both firearms + ammo. There are way too many blockhead retards that get guns in lax states without the proper training. If you legalize it all and enforce responsibility I feel that would be better than disarming people against authority figures in the event they overstep their boundaries. Police are able to act like god's on the street because they have weapons and people don't. Let people have weapons and we'll see what happens when they try brutality again.

With that being said I think 2 things are completely crazy and even if concealed carry were legalized for everyone I would want these 2 things to go away. 1. Automatic weapons. I would wager a minority of people use these for sport/fun. The rest use them to shoot people for fun. There is no reason to manufacture an uzi, get that shit out. 2. Children should not be given guns. I don't care how responsible you think they are or how fun you think it'll be for them to learn how worthless animal life is by allowing them to kill at 9. That shit is ridiculous. 16 should be the youngest but if you're going to give 16 year old guns they should be allowed to drink and do other adult shit too.

It's a right, not a privilege.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

It's a right, not a privilege.

But it really shouldn't be as owing a car is a privilege and not a right.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

wat


I live in Houston

Me too, high five!

I have a gun but I don't hate you.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

But it really shouldn't be as owing a car is a privilege and not a right.

No, the right to bear arms is a guaranteed right and even applicable to the states, unlike owning a car.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

I have a question for gun owning GAF. With gun ownership/right to carry being illegal in many countries, would that actually factor in a decision to move to a different country? Lets say you are given the opportunity to work in an incredibly high paying job in Australia for a few years, would gun ownership factor in you accepting the move?

Weird question I know, but I'm curious.

 

[Funky Papa]

I have a question for gun owning GAF. With gun ownership/right to carry being illegal in many countries, would that actually factor in a decision to move to a different country? Lets say you are given the opportunity to work in an incredibly high paying job in Australia for a few years, would gun ownership factor in you accepting the move?

Weird question I know, but I'm curious.

I'd move right off. No question.

 

[The Technomancer]

No, the right to bear arms is a guaranteed right and even applicable to the states, unlike owning a car.

Just because its a guaranteed right doesn't mean that there can't be debate about whether it should be or not

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I have a question for gun owning GAF. With gun ownership/right to carry being illegal in many countries, would that actually factor in a decision to move to a different country? Lets say you are given the opportunity to work in an incredibly high paying job in Australia for a few years, would gun ownership factor in you accepting the move?

Weird question I know, but I'm curious.

Eh, use it as a way to save up for a SCAR and other FN goodies, just avoid boogans.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Just because its a guaranteed right doesn't mean that there can't be debate about whether it should be or not

I guess, but it's really a settled issue, but hey tons on the 1st Amendment, so you make a good point.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Just because its a guaranteed right doesn't mean that there can't be debate about whether it should be or not

Especially when taking history into context. It may have been clear in a time where the US may have been invaded and the militias called into action again, but nowadays? I'm not so sure. I wouldn't like to see guns illegal but it shouldn't be regarded as a basic right, such as freedom of speech.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Especially when taking history into context. It may have been clear in a time where the US may have been invaded and the militias called into action again, but nowadays? I'm not so sure.

It wasn't intended simply for a defense against foreign invasion, but also for self protection and to prevent the government from being oppressive. There is lots of comments by the founders to support all three reasons.

 

[Angry Fork]

It's a right, not a privilege.

And I disagree with that, otherwise I wouldn't of said what I said, dur.

 

[Fusebox]

Eh, use it as a way to save up for a SCAR and other FN goodies, just avoid boogans.

Avoid what?!

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Avoid what?!

Australian variant of white trash/chavs.

 

[RELAYER]

No, the right to bear arms is a guaranteed right and even applicable to the states, unlike owning a car.

What do you mean guaranteed right?
They can take away you right to own a gun, see felons.

Edit: actually I think they can still own guns made prior to a certain date that do not require registration, such as muzzle loading rifles.

 

[Fusebox]

Australian variant of white trash/chavs.

Lol, you mean bogans, and holy shit manos you don't need to live in fear of bogans just because you aren't carrying a concealed weapon. Are you serious?

 

[Jenga]

this thread gets me so mad i have to shoot off a few shots in my roof to calm me down

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Lol, you mean bogans,?

Ah yeah extra o by mistake.

 

[bomma_man]

Lol, you mean bogans, and holy shit manos you don't need to live in fear of bogans just because you aren't carrying a concealed weapon. Are you serious?

AHAHAH boogans. Some kind of bogan boogy man? And yeah I can't imagine how fucked up life would be if every bogan in the mall could be carrying a gun. I mean violence in low social economic areas is definitely an issue but relaxing gun control seems like the worst way to solve it.

 

[Zaptruder]

Someone like that shouldn't be allowed to own a gun in the first place because they are clearly mentally ill/challenged in some way if they pull a gun over an argument.

No kidding. But there doesn't seem to be much in the way of managing these kinds of risks among pro-gun advocates. Just a sort of implicit consent through defeaning silence.

 

[Zaptruder]

well Switzerland doesn't go to war every couple years, so that changes attitudes on a draft pretty dramatically

I'd imagine Americans as a whole would be less eager to go to war as well if everyone had a very personal stake in the event. Which in a way is another benefit of instituting draft. No more frivolous wars!

 

[Mammoth Jones]

What do you mean guaranteed right?
They can take away you right to own a gun, see felons.

Edit: actually I think they can still own guns made prior to a certain date that do not require registration, such as muzzle loading rifles.

Jesus Christ, obviously. Let me clarify as to prevent further nitpicking. It's a guaranteed right*

*Of law abiding citizenry

And I believe it should be. A heavy cost....I'd pay it gladly.

 

[Zaptruder]

Sorry but the stats aren't specious. It's only specious if you subtlety insinuate that all legal gun owners will eventually kill someone. The FACT is the overwhelming majority of legal gun owners will never fire their weapons at a living, breathing person. That is a fact. It can't be argued. So what I'm advocating is a little perspective in light of that simple truth...

The argument is specious because you don't need the vast majority of people (or even many at all really) to use guns like dipshits before the matter becomes an incredibly serious one.

As it is in America, far too many deaths (in the tens of thousands per annum) already result from legally owned and purchased firearms that haven't been stolen, that it is incredibly irresponsible to simply leave the laws unaltered.

That said, at least both of us agree that training and licensing are critical to revamping gun laws.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

That said, at least both of us agree that training and licensing are critical to revamping gun laws.

I'll gladly concede that.