FallingEdge
Member
I just ask people in the gym.
Hey brah, can you give me a spot.
And then I proceed to bench my heart out at 135.
Hey brah, can you give me a spot.
And then I proceed to bench my heart out at 135.
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Fitness |OT6| Defying gravity, Quest madness, and Muscle Shaming
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Future PhaZe
Member
real talk thats what happened to me, added 5 lbs put me on shipwrecked status
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Ok, so while I've been gone I've been wanting to make a post. I came the the realization that as you progress in strength shit just feels "different."
That weight you're struggling with might actually not be your max. Your mind is fooling you because the weight FEELS different and you currently associate that "feel" with "too heavy." I came to realize this as I progressed with my deadlift. I noticed the weight still felt "too heavy" but my form wasn't breaking down as I tried to lift. I came to realize as weights get heavier they feel "different."
This seems so much like a "no shit" thought that when I clicked I realized how stupid this post would sound, but it may help others.
Think about it, you know the feeling of light weight, how easy it is how smooth it comes off the floor. You know the feeling of medium weight, how it taxes you a little bit but it's still not giving you a hassle. Then you have your max weight (what you think is your max weight) this shit feels heavy, uncomfortable etc. This is how the heavier weight will feel.
As you progress through heavier and heavier weight (weight most humans aren't lifting) it's going to continue to "feel" different, and that's something you have to adapt to.
There isn't just light, medium and heavy. There's a spectrum of how the weight feels and it continues to change as the weight rises. When I'm working up to 575 for deadlift 510 and up feels heavy as fuck, each one feels like (this is the limit of my strength) but ultimately I can get 575 up as of last month. It's something you have to realize to keep progressing.
What I find great and helped me "realize this" is working on mental toughness. With the Iron Sport method you're FORCED into it. One of the weeks has a 10 singles at 90% of your max. Last week I did 10 singles at 530lbs for deadlift and it completely annhiliated me, by sets 7-10 you feel like this shit is impossible. Yet I was still able to finish it out.
Then last night when reading T-Nation I read this post by Rip on Livespill.
Most of the quote doesn't matter. What matters is the bold and underlined. This made me realize it wasn't just me. This is a "THING." You HAVE to get used to how the weight changes in how it feels or you're gonna get stuck. "Too heavy" might just be in your head.
That weight you're struggling with might actually not be your max. Your mind is fooling you because the weight FEELS different and you currently associate that "feel" with "too heavy." I came to realize this as I progressed with my deadlift. I noticed the weight still felt "too heavy" but my form wasn't breaking down as I tried to lift. I came to realize as weights get heavier they feel "different."
This seems so much like a "no shit" thought that when I clicked I realized how stupid this post would sound, but it may help others.
Think about it, you know the feeling of light weight, how easy it is how smooth it comes off the floor. You know the feeling of medium weight, how it taxes you a little bit but it's still not giving you a hassle. Then you have your max weight (what you think is your max weight) this shit feels heavy, uncomfortable etc. This is how the heavier weight will feel.
As you progress through heavier and heavier weight (weight most humans aren't lifting) it's going to continue to "feel" different, and that's something you have to adapt to.
There isn't just light, medium and heavy. There's a spectrum of how the weight feels and it continues to change as the weight rises. When I'm working up to 575 for deadlift 510 and up feels heavy as fuck, each one feels like (this is the limit of my strength) but ultimately I can get 575 up as of last month. It's something you have to realize to keep progressing.
What I find great and helped me "realize this" is working on mental toughness. With the Iron Sport method you're FORCED into it. One of the weeks has a 10 singles at 90% of your max. Last week I did 10 singles at 530lbs for deadlift and it completely annhiliated me, by sets 7-10 you feel like this shit is impossible. Yet I was still able to finish it out.
Then last night when reading T-Nation I read this post by Rip on Livespill.
Most of the quote doesn't matter. What matters is the bold and underlined. This made me realize it wasn't just me. This is a "THING." You HAVE to get used to how the weight changes in how it feels or you're gonna get stuck. "Too heavy" might just be in your head.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
That's some food for thought. I need to keep this in mind.
God damn it's good to have you back Sho.
FallingEdge
Member
Lifting is totally a mental thing. Have you ever had someone spot you and then you do more reps than you thought you could? You thought you were receiving assistance on the last reps but really, it is just you? As you said, I see testing 1RM the same way. If you psyche yourself out before even getting under the weight, you are going to fail. You have to get used to the heavy weight. Get used to how 90% of your 1RM feels. I think that was the problem I had when trying my 1RM. I could have done more, but I wasn't ready for how "heavy" it really is.
Hey, introducing myself to the thread. I started lifting about 10 years ago when I was 17 and have been doing it off and on ever since, but never for more than 6 months at a time. I'm looking to stick with it this time now that I'm finished moving from place to place and have a nice setup right in my own garage that isn't going anywhere.
Age: 27
Height: 5'10
Weight: 183
Goal: Maybe 200lbs around 15% body fat? I don't care about getting shredded abs. Just want to get strong and develop some huge shoulders.
Current training schedule: Working with exercises I'm comfortable doing and the equipment I have, I'm currently doing... (in parenthesis is my current repping weight for that exercise to help determine weaknesses. Obviously my legs are weak)
DAY 1:
Barbell Back Squats - 3 sets of 6-8 reps (165)
Deadlifts - 3 sets of 8 (185)
Day 2:
Bench Press - 3 sets of 8 (175)
Dumbbell Overhead Press - 3 sets of 8 (45)
Skullcrushers - 3 sets of 8 (70)
Day 3:
Wide Grip Pullups - 3 sets until failure (12)
Barbell Curls - 3 sets of 8 (75)
Dumbbell Bent Over Row - 3 sets of 8 (55)
Barbell Shrugs - 3 sets of 8 (185)
Day 4: Rest, then repeat
Current training equipment available:
I got a really nice Olympic weight set about a year ago from an friend of a relative that I set up in my garage. I finally got it cleaned up enough in there to use the thing. Here is what I have at my disposal.
Dips bar / leg lifts station
Squat rack
Bench/incline/overhead press
Lateral pull down cable
Rowing cable
Pullup bar
Bench for decline/flat/incline/vertical positions
Lat pull down bar
Double grip rope cable attachment
About 400 lbs of Olympic plates
About 200 lbs of Standard plates
Olympic 45lb barbells
Standard ez bar
Standard bar for skullcrushers
Olympic plate dumbells that are too long / extremely awkward to use
35lb dumbells
45lb dumbells
One 55lb dumbell
Need to buy: Double grip cable attachment (can't do cable rows right now), another 55lb dumbbell
Diet: Definitely need more carbs in this diet. It's only been two weeks and I kinda hate dairy and have a mild upper respiratory infection already.
630am - Eat about 1 cup of cottage cheese, 16 oz of whole milk, a banana and 3 eggs.
930-10am - Eat 1 cup of cottage cheese, 2 more eggs, 8 oz of milk
12pm - Sandwich with about an inch of ham / turkey inside of it
3pm - 2 eggs, 8 oz of whole milk
530-630pm - No-xplode pre workout, Workout, 1.5 scoop Muscle Milk protein shake post workout
7pm - Dinner (try to eat grilled chicken or salmon occasionally, but usually just your typical home cooked meal with my wife)
1030pm - 1 cup cottage cheese, 16 oz whole milk
Comments: I've had a weird tightness / discomfort in my left shoulder for several years. It bugs slightly on bench press and a lot on any kind of overhead press. For this reason I stick to dumbbells on overhead press. I may need to work on my bench press form to make sure that hasn't caused or aggravated the "injury" or whatever it is.
Also, I'm looking forward to interacting with the group here. I usually just lurk. Any comments or suggestions are welcome. I need to blow up my routine soon, it's usually over a bit too quickly for my liking (would rather do a 45 minute workout than a 20 minute). I don't really do any warmups or stretching so maybe that's why they are so short. That will probably bite me in the ass if I keep it up.
Age: 27
Height: 5'10
Weight: 183
Goal: Maybe 200lbs around 15% body fat? I don't care about getting shredded abs. Just want to get strong and develop some huge shoulders.
Current training schedule: Working with exercises I'm comfortable doing and the equipment I have, I'm currently doing... (in parenthesis is my current repping weight for that exercise to help determine weaknesses. Obviously my legs are weak)
DAY 1:
Barbell Back Squats - 3 sets of 6-8 reps (165)
Deadlifts - 3 sets of 8 (185)
Day 2:
Bench Press - 3 sets of 8 (175)
Dumbbell Overhead Press - 3 sets of 8 (45)
Skullcrushers - 3 sets of 8 (70)
Day 3:
Wide Grip Pullups - 3 sets until failure (12)
Barbell Curls - 3 sets of 8 (75)
Dumbbell Bent Over Row - 3 sets of 8 (55)
Barbell Shrugs - 3 sets of 8 (185)
Day 4: Rest, then repeat
Current training equipment available:
I got a really nice Olympic weight set about a year ago from an friend of a relative that I set up in my garage. I finally got it cleaned up enough in there to use the thing. Here is what I have at my disposal.
Dips bar / leg lifts station
Squat rack
Bench/incline/overhead press
Lateral pull down cable
Rowing cable
Pullup bar
Bench for decline/flat/incline/vertical positions
Lat pull down bar
Double grip rope cable attachment
About 400 lbs of Olympic plates
About 200 lbs of Standard plates
Olympic 45lb barbells
Standard ez bar
Standard bar for skullcrushers
Olympic plate dumbells that are too long / extremely awkward to use
35lb dumbells
45lb dumbells
One 55lb dumbell
Need to buy: Double grip cable attachment (can't do cable rows right now), another 55lb dumbbell
Diet: Definitely need more carbs in this diet. It's only been two weeks and I kinda hate dairy and have a mild upper respiratory infection already.
630am - Eat about 1 cup of cottage cheese, 16 oz of whole milk, a banana and 3 eggs.
930-10am - Eat 1 cup of cottage cheese, 2 more eggs, 8 oz of milk
12pm - Sandwich with about an inch of ham / turkey inside of it
3pm - 2 eggs, 8 oz of whole milk
530-630pm - No-xplode pre workout, Workout, 1.5 scoop Muscle Milk protein shake post workout
7pm - Dinner (try to eat grilled chicken or salmon occasionally, but usually just your typical home cooked meal with my wife)
1030pm - 1 cup cottage cheese, 16 oz whole milk
Comments: I've had a weird tightness / discomfort in my left shoulder for several years. It bugs slightly on bench press and a lot on any kind of overhead press. For this reason I stick to dumbbells on overhead press. I may need to work on my bench press form to make sure that hasn't caused or aggravated the "injury" or whatever it is.
Also, I'm looking forward to interacting with the group here. I usually just lurk. Any comments or suggestions are welcome. I need to blow up my routine soon, it's usually over a bit too quickly for my liking (would rather do a 45 minute workout than a 20 minute). I don't really do any warmups or stretching so maybe that's why they are so short. That will probably bite me in the ass if I keep it up.
FallingEdge
Member
hungry and need fooooooooood
so I'm starving, on 4 hours sleep, have an hour of class left, and today is my bench day. I'm supposed to hit 205 for 5+. where do I find the energy? I've got some PB sandwiches I'm gonna eat right after class. but that's it. my body hurts from basketball yesterday, and deadlifts the day before. today is going to be interesting.
Happens all the time. A competent spotter frees your mind of any lingering need for safety by not lifting too much because of the chance you can't complete the lift.
EDIT: hell, happened last night. A weight I can throw up 7 on the bench without a spot I threw up 9 last night, and those last two reps were an immense struggle that I completed without any spot assistance, but I would not have attempted nor could have completed without the backstop of a guy ready to keep me from hurting myself.
BronzeWolf
Banned
Elbows up is the queue, they should be parallel with the floor:
He lifts heavy shit from the floor
Have you done Starting Strength? Because if you haven't, that the first order of business for you.
I can't begin to understand your program. Why 8 reps if you want to get strong? Why benchpressing and ohp-eing the same day? Why are you squatting only 1.2 times a week? Why are your doing barbell shrugs while your shoulder is injured? Why are you working out 6 days a week and only resting 1?
With your height and weight, I would rather focus on improving your squat, deadlift and overhead presses up. I would not stop a linear progression progress until you can squat 285x3x5 at least and Deadlift 315x1x5, especially at the weight you want to end with. I would skip on the row and start doing power cleans. In fact I would just do Starting Strength with chinups on mondays, dips on wednesdays and arm accesories on Friday.
Why do you need to blow up your routine? Why is it important to have a long workout instead of a short workout? A workout will take whatever it takes to accomplish your goals, under you are doing some advanced depletion-metacon training, time is not a variable for the quality of a workout.
Not doing warmups is not only dangerous, but is also limiting your maximum strength. Warming up with 45x2x5, 135x1x5, 3x60%Workset and 2x80% not only allows specific joints to warm up and let blood flow through them, but it also reinforces your neuromotor paths, i.e. you allow correct technique so it does not falter as easily during a workset.
If you don't have time to warm up, you don't have time to lift.
Period.
Yup I was so afraid of benching 135 lbs for so long but then my friend told me to just put a 35+10 and bam I got my sets in easy. Of course this was with a spotter. And anytime I'm goin for a PR or just unsure about benching a weight I ask a random to spot me.
Future PhaZe
Member
u on a cut brah?
tried to ball out after a lifting session and my j's weren't even touching rim
BronzeWolf
Banned
I don't like random spotters in my gym because they will always fuck up and want to help out on the last reps. Fuck off! I like benching with my bros though, they know what's up
Every bro I know is too unreliable to go to gym with. And yeah most randoms I have lift the bar for me. Now I just tell them let me lift and I'll let you know when I need help or only help me when it looks like I'm struggling.
Funny how I can read a bunch of shit and think a workout routine kind of makes sense, only for someone else to hear it and have their mind blown at how stupid it is. I kinda knew it was stupid. I did starting strength for a few months a few years ago and it worked well. I'll take that advice and get back to SS with an emphasis on warming up and such before the workout.
Thanks for the reality check, much appreciated.
Future PhaZe
Member
I don't know why people try to help out
The weight should never be so much that it literally falls back on your chest, so the need to feel jumpy about helping shouldn't exist. A guy should just fail to push it further, at which point you help.
The weight should never be so much that it literally falls back on your chest, so the need to feel jumpy about helping shouldn't exist. A guy should just fail to push it further, at which point you help.
HomeGym-GAF, does anyone know of solid basic squat rack that I can purchase online? I will probably be stalking Craigslift as my budget isn't allowing for $300+ Squat Racks. I've been cleaning from the ground since I started and as I increase weight it's starting to become...annoying. A squat rack will also allow me to do back squats as I have been working with front squats (with great results) so far.
FallingEdge
Member
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
So my OHP is definitely taking off. When I calculated my 90% for singles today for OHP it was 240 for 10 singles which I thought there's no chance in hell I was going to pull off. I actually pulled it off with little to no rest in between sets (under 45seconds for most sets). The rest of the session was brutal as well, but I won't spam it here. Needless to say my shoulders probably qualify as cannon balls at this point, which I was hesitant to say until recently. My shoulders/back and chest look pretty good and I've heard that from random strangers at this point which is an ego boost (this isn't a brag, it's just me sharing that I'm FINALLY after a year of stagnating receiving positive reinforcement both in results and outside opinion.).
I also almost took a picture for you all of my perfectly fatmoflaged abs, but decided against it since that would be pretty douchy especially since the owner of my gym was cleaning the gym, haha.
Thanks man. Yeah, once you realize "this isn't the too heavy feeling, this is just how "heavy feels." It's a game changer.
Glad to be back and glad to be contributing again.
Totally, and the "mental game" is far from linear as well. So many different things get in your head.
Edit: Oh, and post workout meal.
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
I also almost took a picture for you all of my perfectly fatmoflaged abs, but decided against it since that would be pretty douchy especially since the owner of my gym was cleaning the gym, haha.
Thanks man. Yeah, once you realize "this isn't the too heavy feeling, this is just how "heavy feels." It's a game changer.
Glad to be back and glad to be contributing again.
Totally, and the "mental game" is far from linear as well. So many different things get in your head.
Edit: Oh, and post workout meal.
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
BlueScrote
Member
I generally only ask people to spot my bench who I've seen previously pushing bigger numbers on bench.
I think he went for an inzer.
RumblingRosco
Member
Sorry to pester with such a large post, but any general comments or suggestions for me based on this? Just looking for any glaring issues. I promise to not spam this a 3rd time either way.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Soka, not to be a dick, but it looks like you've not read the book. Why is everything programmed as a 5/3/1? This is of course unless there's a template that has this in the 2nd edition or the new "beyond book" both of which I don't have. I only have the 1st edition and "for powerlifting" books.
I'd really recommend getting the book so you understand what you're doing.
I'd really recommend getting the book so you understand what you're doing.
fredrancour
Member
As shogun said, buy the book. Only the main compounds get the 5 3 1 reps breakdown. Other ones do diff reps. The assistance moves aren't intense enough to benefit from the low-rep scheme.Sorry to pester with such a large post, but any general comments or suggestions for me based on this? Just looking for any glaring issues. I promise to not spam this a 3rd time either way.
RumblingRosco
Member
Not taking it as a dick-based remark by the way Alien/fred, I appreciate the comments.
I own and have read through the (2nd edition) book; I could have sworn it had a section suggestion doing 5/3/1 for the assistance work as well. I'll have to find the part that I read that at.
EDIT: Under the section for "Programming Your Assistance Work - The Simplest Strength Template" it details using the 5/3/1 setup for assistance lifts, but my mistake was that I mis-read this as a suggestion for all assistance lifts when it is actually meant for one large, multi-joint assistance lift (front squat, close-grip bench, etc), not for isolation movements. The smaller isolation movements are recommended at 3x10-20. I'll correct my routine based on this. I'll also look into adding in an assisting compound lift or two in place of one or two of the isolated movements.
Thanks for the input guys.
I own and have read through the (2nd edition) book; I could have sworn it had a section suggestion doing 5/3/1 for the assistance work as well. I'll have to find the part that I read that at.
EDIT: Under the section for "Programming Your Assistance Work - The Simplest Strength Template" it details using the 5/3/1 setup for assistance lifts, but my mistake was that I mis-read this as a suggestion for all assistance lifts when it is actually meant for one large, multi-joint assistance lift (front squat, close-grip bench, etc), not for isolation movements. The smaller isolation movements are recommended at 3x10-20. I'll correct my routine based on this. I'll also look into adding in an assisting compound lift or two in place of one or two of the isolated movements.
Thanks for the input guys.
FallingEdge
Member
For compound lifts:
5/5/5+
3/3/3+
5/3/1+
For accessory:
You have a choices but they are based around 5x10 or 5x10-20. If doing Kroc Rows, 1x20.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Go in with the mentality of hitting x8.
Also, are you dead stopping the reps or are you "touch and go" repping?
I find dead stopping between reps to have great carry over. Glad to see you back to tugging.
Yeah, sometimes I go back in and read a book just to be sure I didn't forget/misread something. I almost always find something I missed or got wrong. Or I make a new "revelation."
RumblingRosco
Member
I'll need to do this a few times. I read the entire book over the course of a couple hours last week, so it would probably be wise for me to do some re-reading at this point.
Dead stopping for about 1-2 seconds. Yeah thanks, glad to be back at it. It's helped my squats tremendously!
BronzeWolf
Banned
So today's lifts
Front Squat 220x5x3
Overhead Press 135x3x5
Deadlift 365x1x5
Still ketoing towards sexiness, my body refuses to budge over the week, but towards the weekend it just sheds the fat away. New numbers for this week are:
Calories: 1800
Carbs: 31g
Protein: 161g
Fat: 110g
This will be having me hit 185lb in about 2 weeks from now. I don't plan on stopping before hitting 175lb at 10%bf. The less calories I eat, the easier it is for me to adhere to this diet. Next update I will have to decrease the carbs for me to realistically maintain keto.
Front Squat 220x5x3
Overhead Press 135x3x5
Deadlift 365x1x5
Still ketoing towards sexiness, my body refuses to budge over the week, but towards the weekend it just sheds the fat away. New numbers for this week are:
Calories: 1800
Carbs: 31g
Protein: 161g
Fat: 110g
This will be having me hit 185lb in about 2 weeks from now. I don't plan on stopping before hitting 175lb at 10%bf. The less calories I eat, the easier it is for me to adhere to this diet. Next update I will have to decrease the carbs for me to realistically maintain keto.
I have so much more energy not doing heavy squats 3 days a week.
Did my 2nd day of greyskull today
OHP: 75 lbs 2x5 and 1x8
Bent over Rows: 95 2x5 and 1x10
Deadlift: 185 1x8
Still need to work on keeping my deadlift form on working sets at least since sometimes I don't bring it down right and the bar rolls a bit so I have to get back into starting position with the midfoot and everything. That happened today after the 4th rep but besides that I wasn't dead after all my lifts like I was near the end of SS. Of course I tried doin some pull ups in my attempt to work towards a muscle up and of course realized ok that workout took alot more out of me than I thought it did lol.
Did my 2nd day of greyskull today
OHP: 75 lbs 2x5 and 1x8
Bent over Rows: 95 2x5 and 1x10
Deadlift: 185 1x8
Still need to work on keeping my deadlift form on working sets at least since sometimes I don't bring it down right and the bar rolls a bit so I have to get back into starting position with the midfoot and everything. That happened today after the 4th rep but besides that I wasn't dead after all my lifts like I was near the end of SS. Of course I tried doin some pull ups in my attempt to work towards a muscle up and of course realized ok that workout took alot more out of me than I thought it did lol.
And now, two weeks later, finally a successful gain on my OHP. 5lb and I'm at 75lb now. Even though it's been two weeks since I added it was still a bitch to do. Goddamn.
Good workout tonight. Up to 115lb Squats finished successfully, along with 115lb Rows finished successfully.
Good workout tonight. Up to 115lb Squats finished successfully, along with 115lb Rows finished successfully.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Nice, let us know how it goes. You're gonna be tuggin' 500+ in no time.
I gotta get back to 500. I have been putzing around for too long. My DL fell off a cliff when I transitioned to AM workouts with no chance to eat prior. Your DL videos have inspired me to get back to pulling serious weight.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
#team deadlift.
I really dispise those late night, not enough chow workout sessions. I think I'd rather wake up extra early and get it in, but that never happens. So I feel you bud.
Immortal is in route to 600 too. It's going to be glorious. The road of progress this community has made in the last few years has been amazing. I look at other communities (while I was banned) and it's incredible the quality of membership we actually have in this fitness thread compared to actual fitness forums.
Good shit man!
Yeah this thread is amazing. I trust you guys for like anything fitness. Everyone else I've talked to has usually been wrong and everything I've learned here has gotten results.
Yeah that's what in about to do so we'll see how it goes.
2 questions for you guys though.
Big but boring or Dave Tate's bible for the most size gains?
And what do you think about doing deficit deads? One of the trainers said it would make my dead lift skyrocket. Just thought I would check in with you guys before I go exhaust myself doing a bunch of extra work haha.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Deficit deads are a supplemental lift and are good if you're weak off of the floor. If you're good off of the floor, there are better things to do. His "make your DL skyrocket" sounds like something an idiot would say unless he knows where you're having issues.
As for size, either one will work, the name of the game is high reps and waging war on food with your face. I'd go with DTPB over BBB though.
Something you need to realize too is size takes time. There isn't a magic bullet. Take the time, put the work in and you will get there. It took me 3 years (this month) to finally hit the point where people KNOW I lift by looking at me.
We try really hard to week out bad information. Sometimes at our own detriment, lol.
Good shit man!
Yeah that is where I have trouble at higher weights other than wanting to double over hand grip it and not being able to.
Thanks for the tips man.
IIs this a dumb idea?
My grip is what is preventing me from going up in deadlifts, I am increasing each week but I think I could lift more and catch up to my squat. Could I buy gloves and do a heavy set with them, then a set at slightly lower weight without gloves Is grip a function of lifting the heavy weight, or just lifting the weight in general?
It is the same issue I had adding a belt for squats, I hated doing it but had to if I was gonna keep advancing. I still do my warmup sets without it. .
My grip is what is preventing me from going up in deadlifts, I am increasing each week but I think I could lift more and catch up to my squat. Could I buy gloves and do a heavy set with them, then a set at slightly lower weight without gloves Is grip a function of lifting the heavy weight, or just lifting the weight in general?
It is the same issue I had adding a belt for squats, I hated doing it but had to if I was gonna keep advancing. I still do my warmup sets without it. .
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