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[adamsapple]

Half of the people here, including @Topher , GHG and many of the sony guys pay their gamepass subscription through Microsoft rewards. Are they paid shills?!

 

[GHG]

We even had this guy amongst us and people still want to be in denial:

Taking money to plug a company is a cardinal sin of journalism and can even be against the law. Yet, astro-turfing — spinning paid opinion as popular sentiment — remains a thriving trade all the same.

The phenomenon has been on display again during this week’s epic intellectual property trial between Google vs Oracle. Florian Mueller, a self-proclaimed patent expert funded by both Oracle and Microsoft, has been issuing a flurry of biased blog posts that don’t mention his paymasters. (His risible excuse for the shameless plumping is that he’s an “analyst”).

Microsoft is hardly the first company to astroturf but it does deserve special mention for being a master of the craft. As well as its patent puppet, the company has a roster of other hired mouths. These include law professor James Grimmelmann who it paid to collect criticism of the Google book settlement and ICOMP a group devoted to smearing its rivals in the European Parliament. A number of mom-and-pop businesses suing Google for antitrust, it turns out, are also tied to Microsoft.This type of professional distortion may strike some as unethical. There is also the question of whether it should be illegal.

The ethics of astro-turfing: sleazy or smart business?

Taking money to plug a company is a cardinal sin of journalism and can even be against the law. Yet, astro-turfing -- spinning paid opinion as popular sentiment -- remains a thriving trade all the same....

www.google.com

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

Am I a robot for liking xbox?

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Anti XBOX dweebs are a special breed. Grown men with a lot of strange opinions.

 

[GHG]

Half of the people here, including @Topher , GHG and many of the sony guys pay their gamepass subscription through Microsoft rewards. Are they paid shills?!

Don't know where this is coming from but I've never signed up to Microsoft rewards and would never sign up to anything like that (Microsoft or not).

 

[rofif]

Riky how much are you getting lol

 

[SirTerry-T]

Am I a robot for liking xbox?

You are a heathen and you will burn in the firey pits of Hell for all eternity!

I hope it was worth it.

 

[FrankWza]

Anti XBOX dweebs are a special breed. Grown men with a lot of strange opinions.

Worse than actual, cult-like behavior?

There are many aspects and tenets to Microsoft Evangelism but of relevance, it purports creating a cult-like legion of supporters and followers, VIP or otherwise that promote Microsoft products and monopolistic practices with a cult like fervor - that regards MS competitors, direct or indirect as war participants that must be extinguished by any and all available means.

MS Evangelism is literally a philosophy of corporate religion, where the consumers, specially the hardcore, are the faithful, and guided by faith to the altar of Microsoft and its products. Microsoft being the church while microsoft employees and vips are the clergy

 

[Kenneth Haight]

Riky how much are you getting lol

 

[Dexero]

People listening to Mark Kern in 2023 is wild

It’s also amusing that he’s still the « former wow dev » almost two decades after leaving the team.

 

[93xfan]

Sony fans are paid.

How else do you account for so many of them trashing backwards compatibility and saying it’s not needed and is a waste of resources.

 

[adamsapple]

Sony fans are paid.

How else do you account for so many of them trashing backwards compatibility and saying it’s not needed and is a waste of resources.

 

[ManaByte]

Sony fans are paid.

How else do you account for so many of them trashing backwards compatibility and saying it’s not needed and is a waste of resources.

Who needs BC when you can pay $120 a year for imaginary PS classics?

 

[93xfan]

Who needs BC when you can pay $120 a year for imaginary PS classics?

They sure do like drip feeding feeding those, don’t they?

Even Nintendo makes them look bad

 

[Hayabusa83]

This is par the course for even governments.

 

[Black_Stride]

With all those bots around I wonder which company do they NOT champion or praise to heaven. This is not an exclusive Xbox/MS thing.

Streamers/Influencers will shill pretty much anything if you pay them.
How many of these streamers actually play Raid Shadow Legend when they arent being paid.

Twitter accounts even worse, the original tweet is worded weirdly and comes off rather

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Sony fans are paid.

How else do you account for so many of them trashing backwards compatibility and saying it’s not needed and is a waste of resources.

Sony Too™

 

[FrankWza]

Sony fans are paid.

How else do you account for so many of them trashing backwards compatibility and saying it’s not needed and is a waste of resources.

Remakes over BC... They have the power to make masters beg
Must be amazing if people that spend thousands on their rig want it

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

Am I a robot for liking xbox?

Neogaf: It is a welll-documented fact that Microsoft has employed Astro-turfing as one arm of its “evangelising” program. Here’s someone who says, in support of Microsoft’s own words on the matter, that it still happens today in order to advertise the Xbox program.

Half of the Xbox fans on Neogaf: WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING ME???

Here’s a “thought experiment” for you all.

Assume that there are shills on this site, from both companies. People who will defend one platform AND attack the other, relentlessly, beyond the bounds of logical argument. Really, it doesn’t matter if they’re actually paid or not - just assume that such people exist.

Can you name who these would likely be for Xbox?
Can you name who these would likely be for Sony?

I think, even for the genuine die-hard fans, it is a lot easier to come up with a list for the one than the other.

(Note: I’m not actually asking people to “name and shame” - as I said, it’s just a thought experiment, so just think it.)

 

[FrankWza]

Neogaf: It is a welll-documented fact that Microsoft has employed Astro-turfing as one arm of its “evangelising” program. Here’s someone who says, in support of Microsoft’s own words on the matter, that it still happens today in order to advertise the Xbox program.

Half of the Xbox fans on Neogaf: WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING ME???

Here’s a “thought experiment” for you all.

Assume that there are shills on this site, from both companies. People who will defend one platform AND attack the other, relentlessly, beyond the bounds of logical argument. Really, it doesn’t matter if they’re actually paid or not - just assume that such people exist.

Can you name who these would likely be for Xbox?
Can you name who these would likely be for Sony?

I think, even for the genuine die-hard fans, it is a lot easier to come up with a list for the one than the other.

(Note: I’m not actually asking people to “name and shame” - as I said, it’s just a thought experiment, so just think it.)

Theyre fighting the war with bodies and bots on the ground. It's going to come to a point, if it hasn't already, where the assumption will be that you're talking to one the large majority of the time.

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

Lobbyists Tied to Microsoft Wrote Citizens' Letters

Letters purportedly written by at least two dead people landed on the desk of Utah Atty. Gen.

www.latimes.com

You don't even need to be alive to be used by Microsoft:

To assist it in the grass-roots campaign, Microsoft turned to two of the nation’s top political advocacy groups: Boston-based Dewey Square Group, co-founded by Al Gore campaigner Michael Whouley, and Phoenix-based DCI/New Media, led by Republican strategist Tom Synhorst.

One crop of letters began rolling into state offices this spring.

Quietly distributed by another Microsoft-supported group, Citizens Against Government Waste, those letters were identical except for the signature.

Minnesota Atty. Gen. Mike Hatch said he got about 300 of those. “It’s sleazy,” he said. “This is not a company that appears to be bothered by ethical boundaries.”

State officials said they won’t be swayed by the effort, and Hatch responded with his own mailings to the senders, explaining his position.

Some recipients wrote back by hand, apologizing for passing along the Microsoft-inspired letters. “I sure was misled,” one wrote.

Utah officials found that two prefab letters from Citizens Against Government Waste bore the typed names of dead people. Those names had been crossed out by family members who signed for them. And another letter came from “Tuscon, Utah,” a city that doesn’t exist.

 

[FrankWza]

You don't even need to be alive to be used by Microsoft:

 

[adamsapple]

Neogaf: It is a welll-documented fact that Microsoft has employed Astro-turfing as one arm of its “evangelising” program. Here’s someone who says, in support of Microsoft’s own words on the matter, that it still happens today in order to advertise the Xbox program.

Who is this someone exactly an why should his twitter rambles matter more than any other twatters? Does it matter more to you because it's conforming to your own confirmation bias ?

Also, the answer to your hypothetical thought experiment is in the post very next to yours.

 

[Kumomeme]

this would explain lot of weird charade

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

Who is this someone exactly an why should his twitter rambles matter more than any other twatters? Does it matter more to you because it's conforming to your own confirmation bias ?

Also, the answer to your hypothetical thought experiment is in the post very next to yours.

Oh look, me pointing out how to spot shills got you to stop posting meme gifs and actually respond.

And, in line with my prediction in this very thread, you attempt to deflect. Again.

You ignore the actual point of my post - that this is a well-known MS tactic - and attacks the source of this particular comment, with… absolutely nothing.

And still, no reason given whatsoever not to believe the underlying argument.

You’ve long since shown your colours, now you’re just running around naked.

 

[adamsapple]

Oh look, me pointing out how to spot shills got you to stop posting meme gifs and actually respond.

And, in line with my prediction in this very thread, you attempt to deflect. Again.

You ignore the actual point of my post - that this is a well-known MS tactic - and attacks the source of this particular comment, with… absolutely nothing.

And still, no reason given whatsoever not to believe the underlying argument.

You’ve long since shown your colours, now you’re just running around naked.

You asked a question, I answered and you immediately went into turtle-defense mode.

 

[DForce]

Sony fans are paid.

How else do you account for so many of them trashing backwards compatibility and saying it’s not needed and is a waste of resources.

I remember when the Xbox One S launched and Xbox One was winning NPDs. Xbox fans were saying it was a mistake that PlayStation 4 slim skipped out on the 4K BluRay player and a lack of BC..

Well, it seems like it really didn't have an impact at all.

BC wasn't trashed, Xbox fans were hyping it up as some huge feature that was required. The fact is most people didn't care.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

You asked a question, I answered and you immediately went into turtle-defense mode.

There was no answer, and you’re back to avoiding and deflecting… and, now, projecting.

I’m defensive?

 

[adamsapple]

There was no answer, and you’re back to avoiding and deflecting… and, now, projecting.

I’m defensive?

Citing the tweet from a rando twitter user whose tweet history is littered with nothing but anti MS / anti acquisition tweets
Asking to name names to start list / bait-war but covering your tracks at the end by saying "I'm not actually asking to do that"
Continuously emphasizing that only one company does astroturfing and accusing anyone who says otherwise as "equivocating"

Your entire 'offer of debate' here is a sham because its based on a premise written by someone who has a very clear bias against MS/Xbox and it's pretty visible in his public communication, so anyone who says anything other than what your confirmation bias seeks, you will refer them back to the OP in a viciously dishonest cycle.

tl;dr, yeah, deflecting/defensive/bad acting, insert your preferred adjective.


Anyway, you made me write all that, here's a bonus gif.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Riky how much are you getting lol

Not much with the TV he's using.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Huh? Fucking weirdo’s.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

Citing the tweet from a rando twitter user whose tweet history is littered with nothing but anti MS / anti acquisition tweets

I offered way more evidence than that, as you well know. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever referred to that tweet nor the guy who sent it at any point in this entire thread.

So… lie #1.

Asking to name names to start list / bait-war but covering your tracks at the end by saying "I'm not actually asking to do that"

I specifically did not want people to name names to avoid accusations against… well, people who act like you, on either “side”. I’m just encouraging people to think and pointing out what to look for, independent of the direction of the underlying bias. Let them see for themselves whether this “Xbox persecution” actually exists.

Continuously emphasizing that only one company does astroturfing and accusing anyone who says otherwise as "equivocating"

I have directly and emphatically criticised Sony, repeatedly, in this thread. Yes, MS is the only company who has inadvertently released a manual detailing how they do it and, yes, MS has formalised it far, far more. That is the point if this thread, but I’m certainly not holding Sony blameless in this affair. They are just not the subject of this thread. Find evidence of Sony’s astroturfing and I will lambast that just as strongly, as I did when their fake reviews were mentioned earlier in this thread.

So… lie #2.

Your entire 'offer of debate' here is a sham because its based on a premise written by someone who has a very clear bias against MS/Xbox and it's pretty visible in his public communication, so anyone who says anything other than what your confirmation bias seeks, you will refer them back to the OP in a viciously dishonest cycle.

…which is exactly why I never mentioned him, and instead presented numerous pieces of evidence establishing a pattern of behaviour and formalising if this process. The offer is not a sham just because there is no counter-point to be made.

;dr, yeah, deflecting/defensive/bad acting, insert your preferred adjective.

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

I didn’t ask for any response in the post you responded to. I offered a thought experiment - you are familiar with those, yes? - that you decided to attack.

Me, I’m happy to provide evidence and let people come to their own thoughtful conclusions.

 

[mckmas8808]

Lobbyists Tied to Microsoft Wrote Citizens' Letters

Letters purportedly written by at least two dead people landed on the desk of Utah Atty. Gen.

www.latimes.com

You don't even need to be alive to be used by Microsoft:

To assist it in the grass-roots campaign, Microsoft turned to two of the nation’s top political advocacy groups: Boston-based Dewey Square Group, co-founded by Al Gore campaigner Michael Whouley, and Phoenix-based DCI/New Media, led by Republican strategist Tom Synhorst.

One crop of letters began rolling into state offices this spring.

Quietly distributed by another Microsoft-supported group, Citizens Against Government Waste, those letters were identical except for the signature.

Minnesota Atty. Gen. Mike Hatch said he got about 300 of those. “It’s sleazy,” he said. “This is not a company that appears to be bothered by ethical boundaries.”

State officials said they won’t be swayed by the effort, and Hatch responded with his own mailings to the senders, explaining his position.

Some recipients wrote back by hand, apologizing for passing along the Microsoft-inspired letters. “I sure was misled,” one wrote.

Utah officials found that two prefab letters from Citizens Against Government Waste bore the typed names of dead people. Those names had been crossed out by family members who signed for them. And another letter came from “Tuscon, Utah,” a city that doesn’t exist.

Wow Microsoft!

 

[adamsapple]

…which is exactly why I never mentioned him, and instead presented numerous pieces of evidence establishing a pattern of behaviour and formalising if this process. The offer is not a sham just because there is no counter-point to be made.

Neogaf: It is a welll-documented fact that Microsoft has employed Astro-turfing as one arm of its “evangelising” program. Here’s someone who says, in support of Microsoft’s own words on the matter, that it still happens today in order to advertise the Xbox program.

Anyone who disagrees with you is lying or deflecting, excellent way to ask for a factual debate.

PS, since you say you're happy to provide evidence, whose here defending one platform while relentlessly attacking the others ? The one being defended and the one being RELENTLESSLY attacked doesn't matter, give examples from either camp of users who are doing that,

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

Anyone who disagrees with you is lying or deflecting, excellent way to ask for a factual debate.

PS, since you say you're happy to provide evidence, whose here defending one platform while relentlessly attacking the others ? The one being defended and the one being RELENTLESSLY attacked doesn't matter, give examples from either camp of users who are doing that,

Yep, I did mention him, although I was pointing out what the responses were to this thread and not using him as the basis for my own arguments.

I have agreed and disagreed with plenty of people who present arguments in support of or against both platforms. So, no, I do not accuse "anyone" who disagrees with me of lying. I accuse people who lie of lying, as I did with you - which you have not addressed. I accuse people who deflect if deflecting - have you presented your view of MS’s astroturfing? Or have you only shifted the topic to Sony at every opportunity? There’s a direct question for you to answer, if you like.

…and no, I’m not calling out names. I’ve done that to a degree already, more than I’m comfortable with in retrospect. It is weird that you’re asking me to turn this into the kind of witch-hunt you seem to be accusing me of, but I’m not interested in playing whatever game you’re trying to solicit here.

 

[adamsapple]

…and no, I’m not calling out names. I’ve done that to a degree already, more than I’m comfortable with in retrospect. It is weird that you’re asking me to turn this into the kind of witch-hunt you seem to be accusing me of, but I’m not interested in playing whatever game you’re trying to solicit here.

You asked other users to make a list of names, you said you are happy to provide evidence. I have only asked you to follow through.

Don't say its a witch hunt if you want others to do the dirty work for you

 

[93xfan]

I remember when the Xbox One S launched and Xbox One was winning NPDs. Xbox fans were saying it was a mistake that PlayStation 4 slim skipped out on the 4K BluRay player and a lack of BC..

Well, it seems like it really didn't have an impact at all.

Completely irrelevant to gaming. Wouldn’t matter the PS4 slims blu-ray player couldn’t play DVDs, or movies from before 2013.

What does telling this story accomplish?

BC wasn't trashed, Xbox fans were hyping it up as some huge feature that was required. The fact is most people didn't care.

Being able to play generations of some of the most critically acclaimed and beloved games is never trash. And there were always a few of us PS fans hoping it would come soon.

Sony doesn’t even have stated forwards compatibility plan. Wouldn’t it be awesome if you couldn’t play Driveclub or Gravity Rush HD on the PS6 without a patch that will never come?

Defense Force, was it?

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

You asked other users to make a list of names, you said you are happy to provide evidence. I have only asked you to follow through.

Don't say its a witch hunt if you want others to do the dirty work for you

For those still following along, this is all me foolishly playing adamsapple ‘s game.

His aim here is to take the focus off MS - he refuses to discuss their actions, contemporary or historical. He tried to deflect attention onto Sony, and when called out, he’s now trying to shift the argument so that it’s about me.

Anything to say about MS’s astroturfing here? I did ask that question after all.

 

[adamsapple]

For those still following along, this is all me foolishly playing adamsapple ‘s game.

His aim here is to take the focus off MS - he refuses to discuss their actions, contemporary or historical. He tried to deflect attention onto Sony, and when called out, he’s now trying to shift the argument so that it’s about me.

Anything to say about MS’s astroturfing here? I did ask that question after all.

Look whose deflecting now , and to answer your question. Nope. Waiting for you to follow through on your own thought experiment while counting my ad money.

BC wasn't trashed, Xbox fans were hyping it up as some huge feature that was required. The fact is most people didn't care.

Well, sure, to the audience that didn't have the feature, naturally it didn't matter. Doesn't mean it isn't one of the best console features.

Being able to play BC games, regardless of whether they got a PC version or not, is nothing to scoff at.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

Look whose deflecting now ,

Deflecting by… bringing the topic back to the thread title?

Nah, not deflecting, just refusing to allow you to.

and to answer your question. Nope.

No? Nothing to say about the topic of the thread? So you openly admit you’re just here to thread-shit and derail.

Again, for those playing along at home: this is the kind of behaviour to look out for if you want to spot a shill.

 

[DevilHunterX0]

Sucks for all those individuals who have been doing it for free .

 

[Crayon]

this would explain lot of weird charade

And it predicts more as well.

 

[Riky]

Not much with the TV he's using.

? No idea what you're talking about, looks like exactly what I was talking about earlier.

 

[Riky]

Riky how much are you getting lol

A lot less than all those people with a script claiming VRR was a bad thing until Sony decided it was actually a great idea.

 

[Stare-Bear]

I mean, it’s pretty obvious

 

[adamsapple]

Deflecting by… bringing the topic back to the thread title?

Back to the topic, made on a random tweet from an ex Blizzard employee who had been tweeting non stop against the acquisition. Certainly an impartial source if I've ever seen one.

All of that without any actual evidence but "Trust me bro".

And if I were to post links of other companies doing astroturfing, get accused of equivocating.

It was probably more relevant to just post gifs

Again, for those playing along at home: this is the kind of behaviour to look out for if you want to spot a shill.

Ah yes the "s" word again. When you're done, please follow through on your own social experiment at least and name names since you're "happy to provide evidence and let people come to their own thoughtful conclusions."

A lot less than all those people with a script claiming VRR was a bad thing until Sony decided it was actually a great idea.

Riky's VRR posts when revisited in 2023:

I mean, it’s pretty obvious

Looks like a shipment fuck-up for an unrelated order.

 

[Nydius]

I mean, it’s pretty obvious

Well, hell, I'm getting ripped off.
I've had every Xbox since launch, even played hooky from work to pick up my original box back in November 2001.

Where's my free Series S, Phil? WHERE IS IT?
Seriously, I want one for my bedroom but I'm poor.

 

[DForce]

Completely irrelevant to gaming. Wouldn’t matter the PS4 slims blu-ray player couldn’t play DVDs, or movies from before 2013.

What does telling this story accomplish?

It's not because I'm giving you a history of when things started and what was the narrative back then.

Being able to play generations of some of the most critically acclaimed and beloved games is never trash. And there were always a few of us PS fans hoping it would come soon.

Sony doesn’t even have stated forwards compatibility plan. Wouldn’t it be awesome if you couldn’t play Driveclub or Gravity Rush HD on the PS6 without a patch that will never come?

Defense Force, was it?

I never said it was trash. I'm telling you what happened and it wasn't that PS fans were calling it trash as you're making it out to be. What was ACTUALLY being said is that people weren't buying these consoles for BC and Xbox fans wanted you to believe it was some must-have feature that was important when it was not.

People knew things would be different this generation because of the AMD architecture.

 

[Chukhopops]

Neogaf: It is a welll-documented fact that Microsoft has employed Astro-turfing as one arm of its “evangelising” program. Here’s someone who says, in support of Microsoft’s own words on the matter, that it still happens today in order to advertise the Xbox program.

Half of the Xbox fans on Neogaf: WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING ME???

Here’s a “thought experiment” for you all.

Assume that there are shills on this site, from both companies. People who will defend one platform AND attack the other, relentlessly, beyond the bounds of logical argument. Really, it doesn’t matter if they’re actually paid or not - just assume that such people exist.

Can you name who these would likely be for Xbox?
Can you name who these would likely be for Sony?

I think, even for the genuine die-hard fans, it is a lot easier to come up with a list for the one than the other.

(Note: I’m not actually asking people to “name and shame” - as I said, it’s just a thought experiment, so just think it.)

Do you really believe it’s difficult to find Sony full time warriors here? Who by their own admission only play a couple games each year, but argue endlessly here?

I recommend starting from the ABK thread, sort by post count, your list will be full in no time.

 

[Majormaxxx]

I'm an Xbox fan. Money please.