4K Support : could it have a influence on which Next Gen Console you buy?
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ElectricBlue187
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60 FPS locked would get me to buy a console
4K isnt that outlandish, it is simply the same pixel size of 4 uncut 1080p
42 inch tvs combined into one 84 inch tv, that is exactly what LG introduced recently. 4K will bring 80 inch tvs up to 40 inch pixel density. 4K will be great for watching 4 1080p shows similtaneously on one screen without any scaling required. IMAGINE 4 PLAYER games where each player's window is in 1080p. 4 and 8k tech will be much more usefull than 3d, just wait till Apple releases an 80 inch retina display, everyone will want one.
4k's resolution is only 4x that of 1080p, I hope the next gen consoles are at least 20x the performance of todays boxes, using Moore's law, the new consoles with a 9 year release gap from current gen should have a 64x increase in processing power.
42 inch tvs combined into one 84 inch tv, that is exactly what LG introduced recently. 4K will bring 80 inch tvs up to 40 inch pixel density. 4K will be great for watching 4 1080p shows similtaneously on one screen without any scaling required. IMAGINE 4 PLAYER games where each player's window is in 1080p. 4 and 8k tech will be much more usefull than 3d, just wait till Apple releases an 80 inch retina display, everyone will want one.
4k's resolution is only 4x that of 1080p, I hope the next gen consoles are at least 20x the performance of todays boxes, using Moore's law, the new consoles with a 9 year release gap from current gen should have a 64x increase in processing power.
Why would you assume this would EVER be a possibility?
No matter how powerful a machine becomes some developers will always want to push the system harder at the expense of framerate. If one console were to theoretically prevent this somehow the other would gain an advantage in that developers could push that machine harder and deliver superior visuals in the eyes of the general public. 60 fps simply doesn't matter to most gamers, unfortunately.
The only reason why see high framerates on the PC comes down to the fact that most software simply isn't trying to push the latest hardware. If PC games were to suddenly push current PC hardware to its limits today you'd have to settle for inferior anti-aliasing and a lower framerate to reach it.
That UE4 demo was running on a GTX680 and capped at 30 fps while sticking with just FXAA, for instance.
CrunchyFrog
Member
It's not even close to the same situation. For the last time, technology does not drive the market. There is absolutely no 4K content yet. Much less 4K games. Neither would devs likely bother to target 4K res. You realize how exponentially many more pixels one has to push than before? 480p -> 720p was 3x the pixels, 720p -> 1080p is 2.25 x the pixels. 1080p -> 4K? FOUR times the pixels. Devs have a hard enough time making that 2.25x jump from 720p to 1080p (if they even make it to 720p), you really think they're gonna implement all the new graphics standards people are clamoring for next gen and STILL be able to increase resolution 4x over? I don't care how much ram and processing power you throw at it. You don't even have any except the absolute highest of high class PC's being able to push resolutions that high. I would wager that devs could throw far more shaders/polys at a 1080p resolution and the vast majority won't care.
And this whole thing is not even taking into account framerate/bitrate. As of right now, HDMI 1.4a can only handle 4k@24fps, a framerate considered, outside of movies (though even THAT is set to change with the soon introduction of 48fps cinema), absolutely abysmal by most graphics enthusiasts who would care about 4k. And that's MAXIMUM. HDMI 1.4b supports QuadHD @ 30fps, but digital theater 4K (the real 4K) still tops out at 24fps, plus 1.4b is still not standard yet, having only preliminary functions lined out this past december. You'd need a whole new cabling standard to do anything better than that, rendering anything higher than 4kp24fps anytime soon absolutely impossible.
HD TV's also did not all cost 30K in 2005, and HD capable TV's were already on the market for far less. Don't act like the situation is even remotely the same as far as mass market consumption. We even at least had the early stages of Blu-Ray and HDDVD coming out at the time. As of right now, there are no 4K optical mediums out there, and none are expected to be out for a couple of years. So even IF you had everything else mentioned beforehand in this post just magically pop out of your ass, you still wouldn't have an optical media reader capable of reading or storing such high enough resolutions yet.
So in short, no.
Are you Donald Trump by any chance? A tiny percentage of houses will fit an 80inch TV, let alone the cost
Viola of the Abyss
Member
No, it's still way too early and I don't even have an HDTV yet, so that's not a factor for me.
On the contrary, I might as well skip on the incoming consoles if they don't offer RGB output for SDTV at 480i/576i.
I don't know when I will buy an HDTV but it most likely won't be in the next three years.
On the contrary, I might as well skip on the incoming consoles if they don't offer RGB output for SDTV at 480i/576i.
I don't know when I will buy an HDTV but it most likely won't be in the next three years.
You won't be buying a HD tv in the next 3 years? Why? They're not exactly expensive now, let alone in a few years time
You have a computer monitor, don't you? Just connect it to your console. I seriously can't believe that you're still trying to play games in 480i.
Theonik
Member
Well 4k support will be mostly limited to media but at any rate by the time next-gen consoles are out 1.4b will be commonplace and that will support 4k@60hz
In analog TVs like CRTs resolution waws defined by the number of horizontal lines of resolution the TV. Using just that was kept after we transitioned to digital TVs that didn't scan. Then the reason they changed to 4k as opposed to say 2160p is probably marketing related.
So you're saying that Sony and MS will wait until December 2014 to launch new consoles?
Also with a 64x increase in power, you do realize that would mean a 15-20 TFlops GPU which would be about 3-4 times faster than a GTX 690 / HD 6990 (today's top cards)? That is not gonna happen even if they wait until Dec 2014.
Viola of the Abyss
Member
A decent 40" FullHD model still costs more than €500 here, which is more or less a full year of gaming budget software.
Also, I don't have much space in my current setup, and most of all I might be moving abroad next year and I won't be able to bring it with me.
The main reason though is that my CRT is still going very strong and I really like retrogaming so I don't really want to give it up.
No, only notebooks
Playing Ps360 games on an SDTV CRT has its advantages though, you'll never notice the aliasing!
CrunchyFrog
Member
Wrong. Even QHD will max out at 30fps on 1.4b, proper 4K is still stuck at 24fps.
TheGreyHulk
Member
It will have zero influence on my next console because they more than likely won't have native 4k support since it's too demanding. It'll just be upscaled which isn't anything i'd be pumped about.
4096 x 3072
yeah..... it's not happening. the support will be there, but i don't see how any console won't support it. It's just a resolution. It's not like they'll be rendering at that resolution.
4096 x 3072
yeah..... it's not happening. the support will be there, but i don't see how any console won't support it. It's just a resolution. It's not like they'll be rendering at that resolution.
Littlegator
Banned
For legacy support in the future, obviously yes.
However, this is a moot point, because neither of the unannounced consoles will have 4k support. It'll still probably be a toss-up next gen.
However, this is a moot point, because neither of the unannounced consoles will have 4k support. It'll still probably be a toss-up next gen.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
I have a 120" 1080p projector. I'm set for a while.
Viola of the Abyss
Member
He's probably using a good old CRT monitor for his computer.
Actually I still have one in working conditions!
The desktop computer connected to it isn't working anymore though...
If you care about gaming I'm not sure I can understand why you would stick with an SDTV.
If video quality didn't matter to you, that's one thing, but you're looking for RGB output so you obviously care somewhat. Why not upgrade? You can get a high-resolution display for dirt cheap.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It's probably already been said, but the next generation of consoles will not be powerful enough to render even current gen graphics at 4k resolution and output a decent framerate.
Companies realized this generation that they can get away with low resolutions and framerates and that having more graphical bells and whistles is more eye-catching and important in terms of sales.
We'll be lucky if all games next generation are native 1080p and locked 30fps. 4K is dream outside of simple video playback.
Companies realized this generation that they can get away with low resolutions and framerates and that having more graphical bells and whistles is more eye-catching and important in terms of sales.
We'll be lucky if all games next generation are native 1080p and locked 30fps. 4K is dream outside of simple video playback.
Green Yoshi
Member
Say that again in ten years. ^^
You can see some 4K TVs on the IFA in Berlin this week. Looks pretty amazing. But I think first there will be OLED tvs and afterwards 4K tvs.
AstroNut325
Member
I really wonder how we will advance technologically with the kinds of attitudes and viewpoints exhibited in this thread.
"We have more critical issues with so and so... No point in investing in such gimmickry."
"We have more critical issues with so and so... No point in investing in such gimmickry."
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
Not on the console, but I will definitely own a 4K tv. Finally be able to watch my RED footage natively instead of scaled down.
Thanks. Figured everyone on here would look down their collective noses at us and I could post with relative anonymity.
If you stopped with your idiotic strawmen you'd realize that most people are just saying "it's not important or ready for mass market yet, maybe in the gen after the next". Which is not at all the same as what you're saying.
whatevermort
Member
Not a bloody chance. There isn't a chance any console in the next cycle will run a game at that resolution. Maybe minesweeper. That's it.
GoofsterStud
Member
Exactly, you would have to view from so close that it'd have a negative impact on your eye site...negating the 4K pull.
For 60+ TV's I can see the appeal. For 40 inch TV's I find a 120hz IPS monitor to as good or better than any 4K monitor I have seen.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
How many 4K monitors have you seen on actual 4K footage? There is a huge difference.
Oh, we're clearly anti-technology here. And it's too bad. If Sony doesn't push for mainstream acceptance of 4k in spite of public disinterest, we'll probably never end up going to Mars or having flying cars or anything.
The bottom line is that we as consumers don't want unnecessary, expensive tech shoved down our throats. It's the same reason people got fed up with the push for 3D.
I was initially inclined to think the same, but if PS3x4 can do GT5 at 4K/60fps, I don't see much reason why a fair number of games couldn't support it next gen. The next-gen systems will probably be complete overkill for more than minesweeper-levels of sophistication...and flipping on a buzzword feature like '4K' might become a 'why not?' issue for some games.
I don't think it'll become a differentiator though...at least on a hardware level. Both MS and Sony's systems should support it as a simple output option without much fuss (i.e. by virtue of their gpu architecture choices and hdmi). Sony might push for more support in games though if they're trying to sell 4K TVs.
Neuromancer
Member
Absolutely. I want next gen consoles to be as powerful and 'future proof' as possible. We'll surely have them for around 8 years or more, plenty of time for the price of the TVs to go down and me to upgrade.
Nope. It's not something that I'm anticipating, but rather expecting, however, not something that is necessary to me, either. If 4k televisions and movies do become standard within the next-gen consoles' lifetime, then I'll just use my PC for that if I get a 4k television myself.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
No, the specs required for legit 4k gaming would make it way too expensive. We don't even know if they'll hit 1080p 60fps consistently in next gen.
LOL! 4K resolution? That will never have any significance (maybe way way way in the future), let alone for the upcoming next gen consoles.
What'd you think, that TV standards can be changed just like that?
Especially with LCD/Plasma TVs that are dependent on one native resolution it's something not so easily changed.
So no.
What'd you think, that TV standards can be changed just like that?
Especially with LCD/Plasma TVs that are dependent on one native resolution it's something not so easily changed.
So no.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
Yes. You got to push the industry first, but many are taking that jump into 4k. Things will catch up eventually.
LumpOfCole
Member
I could envision Microsoft or game producers to enable 4k if you buy 4 consoles to independently render quarters of the screen. Because hey, if you can afford an 80+ inch 4k screen, you can afford 4 consoles.
If Forza could render 3 screens with 3 Xbox 360s, then I'm sure it's possible next generation with 4k. Who will want it? The filthy rich I guess.
If Forza could render 3 screens with 3 Xbox 360s, then I'm sure it's possible next generation with 4k. Who will want it? The filthy rich I guess.
Viola of the Abyss
Member
I do care about video quality, but one thing is spending 20 on a cable that offers me a nice improvement, another is spending 500 on something that I wouldn't know where to put no matter how huge the improvement would end up being.
A decent computer monitor would still cost me 200 and even apart from cost and size factors the retrogame compatibility is still the deciding factor for me.
Once I move into a decent house (which should happen in about 3 years at least) I'll definitely buy one and make enough space to keep my SDTV for old consoles.
It's just a matter of time, I don't mind waiting a little more.
I had forgotten what exactly 4K resolution was but "really damn high". If anything that makes it more compelling for a computer, running desktop stuff at 4K, then running (relatively modern) games at 1080p with upscaling not being too bad due to exact pixel doubling sounds great. Nevermind that within a few years we probably will get affordable cards that could handle that at 60 FPS.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
One thing to remember is that there are many, including myself that are running games on a PC at 2K resolution that's beyond 60fps already and have been for awhile now.
And as fast and small as chips and hardware are becoming and being produced, we can have 4k at 60fps really quick.
And as fast and small as chips and hardware are becoming and being produced, we can have 4k at 60fps really quick.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Even wii u will support 4k so this shouldn't even be a thread
Theonik
Member
Oh yeah right. Though I still expect support for 2160p@60 by the time at least PS4 and the next xbox are out.
As for what proper 4k is, given even the industry doesn't know exactly (several 4k resolutions even in cinema) it's an odd thing to say. TVs at least should adopt 2160p for the most part.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
Name brand ones, sure. But there are 4k monitors that have been out that are cheaper and decent sized.
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