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(*) Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek contrasts the next Gen consoles in interview (Up: Tweets/Article removed)

Neo_game

Member
You can’t get him serious when saying stuff like these he looses all of his credibility:



Also to remind you sth more credible:

C3-C04-BCC-C6-EB-4825-ACCE-948-CA9-CB43-A1.jpg


DBC9-FB49-AA1-B-42-C3-96-C0-1-A5-AF6-A0-BFF6.jpg


Also he has been exposed by a Dice devon another forum.


You know right ? that Designer and Programmer do completely different things. Anyone looking at numbers say Xbox is better but Programmer and engineers working on it are the main guys who can talk about it. As they are the one's implementing stuff. Anyways it is crazy that people are getting so worked up that he prefers PS5 over Xbox.
 

CJY

Banned
No it can’t when both consoles are pulling from the same hardware engineers and manufacturers.

And please stop with the food analogies. They don’t work.
As far as we know, one single component comes from the same manufacturer. And even then it's not clear. It's possible Sony's chips comes from Samsung and MS's chips come from TSMC. There could be a price difference even though they all come from AMD.

The food analogy actually works perfectly well for the way you understand things. Meaning, it makes zero sense.

Basically, everything you said in your original comment that I responded to doesn't make any sense.
 
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DaMonsta

Member
As far as we know, one single component comes from the same manufacturer. And even then it's not clear. It's possible Sony's chips comes from Samsung and MS's chips come from TSMC. There could be a price difference even though they all come from AMD.
The one thing responsible for performance.

Don’t really matter who makes the fans or hdmi ports, although I’m sure lots of that is the same as well.

The food analogy actually works perfectly well for the way you understand things. Meaning, it makes zero sense.

Basically, everything you said in your original comment that I responded to doesn't make any sense.
No, your food analogy is dumb. Please move on.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
This is literally verbatim where Xbox fans were 7 years ago.

We see how that turned out.

There is no “punching above weight” when it comes to these consoles.

They both have the smartest, most experienced people on earth working on them. They both have access to the same resources, knowledge base, and techniques.

It’s asinine to claim one side can do some type of hardware/software magic the other can not.

Both machines were built to get the absolute most they can get out of the hardware. Both are “balanced” both are “efficient” both have addressed bottlenecks. Both have a lot of the same developers, engineers, and manufacturers working on the parts.

Only thing left is numbers. Any effort to deny those numbers, is to deny reality.
PS5 could very well punch above its weight

PS5 has one pool of ram
A twice as fast SSD with cache scrubbers, coherency engines, on chip ram
Higher GPU clock
Geometry engine

Anyone thinking the PS5 wont be a beast is mistaken
 

CJY

Banned
No, your food analogy is dumb. Please move on.
No, you don't get to call something dumb when it isn't and you're demonstrating dumbness to the extreme.

Making a console or building a PC is perfectly analagous to the ingredients in a dish.
The PC-builder or system architect is perfectly analagous to the chef.

Sorry if your puny mind can't handle a basic analogy. I guess it shouldn't surprise me.
 

Nero_PR

Banned
You have a good point there.

With that aside i do like the idea of instant loading times and instant fast travel, i really hate long loading screens, i can only game sometimes for 30-45 mins at a time, just the thought of having to sit and wait for a minute plus for a loading screen makes me rather choose another game to play.

I am old and my reactions suck now, i die alot in games lol. So less loading is a god send to someone like me.

Just alone on the benefits of loading and 60 fps potential makes me want to buy the next generation console at the start of its conception.

So yer about new games, i totally get your point.
Yes, I'm all about quality of life improvements. This weekend for an example, I put Crash Team Racing so I could beat the developers' time trials. Fast forward 15 minutes, I was slogging to play because the time to load a track is around 40 to 50 seconds when races can be completed in an average of 1 and 1/2 to 2 minutes, which sucks out all of my enjoyment if I have to sit looking to a loading screen almost the same amount I'll be playing until the next loading screen.

The only thing that is an instantaneous deal for me are the loading times. Not having to waste 1/5 to 1/4 of my console gaming with it is already a blessing.
 

DaMonsta

Member
No, you don't get to call something dumb when it isn't and you're demonstrating dumbness to the extreme.
No, I get to call dumb shit dumb, and that shit was dumb

Making a console or building a PC is perfectly analagous to the ingredients in a dish.
No it’s not. Please stop
The PC-builder or system architect is perfectly analagous to the chef.
No, they are not

Sorry if your puny mind can't handle a basic analogy. I guess it shouldn't surprise me.
Your insults are dumb too
 

Neo Blaster

Member
Do you believe that the PS5 GPU is more powerful than the XsX GPU?
Nope, if each CU is used and has its proper share of resources, SX GPU will perform better than PS5 GPU, that's what he said when talking about higher resolutions. But it's harder to parallelize and allocate resources properly for many CUs, so when you have less CUs being used but higher frequency they will perform better.

PS5 may have an advantage at the beginning of generation because it's easier to achieve ideal scenario on it than SX, but as devs get used to these consoles later, SX can perform better on higher loads, like 8K.
 

CJY

Banned
No, I get to call dumb shit dumb, and that shit was dumb

No it’s not. Please stop

No, they are not

Your insults are dumb too
Nope. Wrong on all counts. Kinda like your original post. Man, just how wrong can one person be in a day? It's gone way past embarrassing.
 
Again. 7 years ago. Xbox supposedly had the same type of special sauce, and here we are.
There are so many misconceptions and so many opinions that the proof is going to have to be in the pudding. Once the games start showing is when people will be impressed unless people are die hard fans. At that point they will magnify an image to the extent to which you can only see one pixel to show the discrepancy. In the end, it doesn't really matter. What matters is the games.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Nope, if each CU is used and has its proper share of resources, SX GPU will perform better than PS5 GPU, that's what he said when talking about higher resolutions. But it's harder to parallelize and allocate resources properly for many CUs, so when you have less CUs being used but higher frequency they will perform better.

PS5 may have an advantage at the beginning of generation because it's easier to achieve ideal scenario on it than SX, but as devs get used to these consoles later, SX can perform better on higher loads, like 8K.
I don't think devs have to "get used to" having more CUs; GPUs automatically use the CUs on a card. The XSX RAM pool is designed to give more bandwidth to the GPU as well to feed the greater CUs.

Honestly it's what is kind of irking me about this dev's statements; he compares CUs to CPU cores and they aren't very comparable.
 

GymWolf

Member
the guy who translate the interview on twitter
https://twitter.com/SickHumorTV/status/1247003754257416194?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1247003754257416194&ref_url=https://s9e.github.io/iframe/2/twitter.min.html#1247003754257416194
Owning every console won't save you from biased criticism.

This is my reality and I'll still be called an Xbot until the day I die even though my game room is littered with everything. It's unavoidable, the ability to purchase things doesn't make you an objective party.

okPZRnF.jpg
nice room dude.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Pretty sure that's bullshit, his twitter feed is filled with him holding PS4 games on his hands.
You could actually go to his twitter, you know.


“My baby was born”.

He game he worked is born... in CryTek office lol

He he says he prefer playing PES on Xbox than PC due the solid performance:



He he says he bought a Xbox One X after years not playing games:



He play games on PC and Xbox One X and not PS4.
 
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IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Not according to some. This is the second time we're hearing it being considered to be split ram and this time from a developer
I mean; he's wrong (and so were you).. it has a unified pool of RAM with 10GB designed mainly for GPU use and the rest CPU.

How much of a problem that will be is not really known; but having that extra bandwidth will certainly be good for the GPU.

If stuff intended for the GPU ends up using the slower RAM pool and what/when that occurs, how much control devs have (and thus have to worry about it),etc. I don't think anyone knows yet.
 
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That's not exactly what we're seeing though. The Series X is more powerful specs wise but there's a constant stream of posters claiming that the PS5 has some magical advantages that make it more capable somehow and effectively more powerful overall.

That kind of spin is surely going to fire up fanboys on both sides. The thing is that it'll also draw the attention of people who aren't necessarily passionate about one side or the other, but who find those claims to be misleading or outright deceptive.
The funny thing is it's not really Sony at fault. If they want to choose a 10tf system go ahead. But they never mislead anyone saying something else beforehand. Cerny's reveal was the first time they said anything about it in detail.

So even though his show was odd, you actually can't blame him for any of this. It's not like he claimed PS5 was going to be 12 tf in an interview in 2019 but showed a 10 tf system.

If anyone is to blame, it's all the so called insiders who played up PS5 > SeX and PS5 is 12-13tf for a year. There were even last minute mentions of PS4 even hitting 14-15. All BS.

Goes to show what kind of BS and hidden agendas they all have since most of them clustered together saying basically the same thing since last summer. I don't remember any insiders on forums/Twitter saying PS5 was going to be about 10 tf. Only people I remember were those GitHubbers tweeting their dirt digging every week about Oberon where they stood firm at 9.2.

I think what's happening with some gamers is they are stretching for those 12-13tf rumours to be true by using PS5 10tf boosting and SSD to be equivalent to raw 12-13 tf.

All the insiders had to do (for the ones who actually did know) is play up PS5 is 10 tf. So when Cerny shows a 10 tf system, nothing to be confused about or disappointed. It's like SeX.... "double the power", most people pegged SeX at double digits. So when SeX is announced at 12 tf, its not really a surprise. I think the biggest surprise for gamers wasn't even the 12 tf. Its that it was confirmed RDNA 2.

Actually I have to be honest here, because HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 threw 10.5 TF out there at least once, but did so with trepidation. The other insider (dev in this case) who didn't go with 12-13 TF for PS5 was Gavin Stevens Gavin Stevens , but their guess was 11.6 TF.

Dunno about Osiris, BGs, Klee etc. sources and how those sources got to 12+ TF, could've been a number of things. Tommy was BSing with their PS5 specs tho, but they got XSX specs very accurate (they might've been a MS guy).

But yeah, the Github info and testing data were pretty much spot on; Komachi, Rogame etc. were just finding the info, dumping it, and using AMD's nomenclature to see what products the data most likely belonged to. Funny thing with that were the theories Github was a FUD campaign because MS owns some part of it. They're a mega-conglomerate, of course they're gonna have ownership of many companies, doesn't mean they're dumb enough to land in a lawsuit to push FUD. That crap almost got them broken up by the federal government in the '90s :LOL: .

But split by bandwidth.

Not really; I'll go into it sometime later, but I think people are misunderstanding the memory setup in XSX.

I mean; he's wrong (and so were you).. it has a unified pool of RAM with 10GB designed mainly for GPU use and the rest CPU.

How much of a problem that will be is not really known; but having that extra bandwidth will certainly be good for the GPU.

If stuff intended for the GPU ends up using the slower RAM pool and what/when that occurs, how much control devs have (and thus have to worry about it),etc. I don't think anyone knows yet.

It shouldn't be a big problem unless the dev in question is just really lazy (hate to put it that way but given other systems in the past with way more complicated memory setups were mastered by even smaller teams on smaller resources, there isn't an excuse IMHO unless the publisher is just cheap and stingy).

Not that it won't have its quirks; it will. But some folks are grossly exaggerating the complications in this regard.


THAT'S the guy who translated it? Jeez, that feed reads like a Youtube comments section...the bad kind....
 
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Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I mean; he's wrong (and so were you).. it has a unified pool of RAM with 10GB designed mainly for GPU use and the rest CPU.

How much of a problem that will be is not really known; but having that extra bandwidth will certainly be good for the GPU.

If stuff intended for the GPU ends up using the slower RAM pool and what/when that occurs, how much control devs have (and thus have to worry about it),etc. I don't think anyone knows yet.
What this dev said is that it gets annoying having to fit things into both the fast ram and the slower ram
 

B_Boss

Member
There was a poll thread the day or two before the reveal about predicting PS5 flops. We were all talking about it

That may be true but I’m not sure that the PS5 hype train image could (or should?) be connected with such a discussion or poll.
 
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IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
What this dev said is that it gets annoying having to fit things into both the fast ram and the slower ram
Except it's not like Xbox One, and has actually 1 unified pool of RAM... so how can we trust what he's saying at all here?

Xbnox One ESRAM was 32mb.... tiny.. hard to figure out how to take advantage of it, etc. Describing the XSX as being like the Xbox One to me just makes this guy sound ignorant, and not trustworthy.
 
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Neo Blaster

Member
I don't think devs have to "get used to" having more CUs; GPUs automatically use the CUs on a card. The XSX RAM pool is designed to give more bandwidth to the GPU as well to feed the greater CUs.

Honestly it's what is kind of irking me about this dev's statements; he compares CUs to CPU cores and they aren't very comparable.
The guy is an engineer working on a commercial engine at Crytek, you are...?
 

FeiRR

Banned
Isn't MS paying devs to be featured on Gamepass? And from what it seems, it's generally for games that have already been out for a good while (other than MS's own 1st-party).

And 3rd-party devs aren't being forced to support the One and X IIRC, that's just a mandate MS set for their own teams (and hopefully one they're reconsidering or thinking of only doing through Xcloud, I hope. Still doesn't fully sit right with me, that).
This is current policy, There might be some changes for the next gen, which is understandable as they're establishing new budget rules. Of course I'm just speculating, but what else would antagonize devs if not some new policy? I don't believe XSX is such a failure they're pissed about making games for it, just like they were with PS3 at the beginning.
 

ethomaz

Banned
So he does own a PS4. OK. Not sure that makes him a fanboy but people saying he only has an Xbox are deffo wrong.

And I could, but having a record in the thread is sort of the point.
Actually he never said he owns a PS4... he says after years without playing games he brought an OLED and Xbox One X.
He perder to play PES on Xbox One X over PC.

The PS4 case is from CryTek office when they received the copy from Sony... he took the picture and wrote “My baby is born”.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
The guy is an engineer working on a commercial engine at Crytek, you are...?
A person who understands you have to specifically code for multi-threaded operations on a CPU to take advantage of extra cores but just throw workloads at a GPU and it does the work of using it's CUs? Devs dont have to code around CUs, it's just not how they work. It kinda works as an analogy (wider is not always better) but fails once you get into how you have to code for the 2 scenarios is so vastly different. Hence why I think you were mislead, your welcome for correcting you I guess?
 
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Neo Blaster

Member
A person who understands you have to specifically code for multi-threaded operations on a CPU to take advantage of extra cores but just throw workloads at a GPU and it does the work of using it's CUs? Devs dont have to code around CUs, it's just not how they work. It kinda works as an analogy (wider is not always better) but fails once you get into how you have to code for the 2 scenarios is so vastly different. Hence why I think you were mislead, your welcome for correcting you I guess?
Still more inclined to believe in a game industry professional, but thanks anyway.
 
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I think the most interesting part is this:

"The same can be said for consoles. Sony runs PlayStation 5 on its own operating system, but Microsoft has put a customized version of Windows on the Xbox Series X. The two are very different. Because Sony has developed exclusive software for the PlayStation 5, it will definitely give developers much more capabilities than Microsoft, which has almost the same directX PC and for its consoles."

It's quite possible that the Windows overhead will come with some disadvantage (just like when comparing consoles to PC).

I wonder how much. Also, doesn't Microsoft run the OS in a virtual machine? That should create even more overhead.

No. XBO has an OS with two hypervisors, one for apps and one for games. And the OS used is a customized version based on Windows called Xbox OS.

XSX will probably be using a similar setup but the hypervisors are generally pretty thin and lightweight virtualized clients, and the Xbox OS has seen changes from Windows 10 brought over. Additionally, Windows 10 isn't nearly as bloated as some people think, if you customize the installation. There're systems out there where the OS sits on just a few hundred megabytes and still fully functions.

I'd expect XSX's version to be a bit larger than that because you need space for some of the fancy graphics and the UI and whatnot, plus space for features like Quick Resume, but it's still smaller than the 3 GB reserve the PS4 originally had.

This is current policy, There might be some changes for the next gen, which is understandable as they're establishing new budget rules. Of course I'm just speculating, but what else would antagonize devs if not some new policy? I don't believe XSX is such a failure they're pissed about making games for it, just like they were with PS3 at the beginning.

But it's Crytek :S.

And again, with their history in relation to MS, I take what they say with a pinch of salt. In a lot of ways this Crytek interview reminds me of some stuff an EA dev said about the SEGA Saturn to Next Generation magazine back in 1995. They used a buggy version of Daytona USA to speculate that the Saturn's polygonal performance was only at that game's level, even though it was somewhat well-known that was a buggy, rushed port highly unoptimized for the system.

But, magazines like Next Gen and a few others ran with it, and used it in their comparisons between Saturn & PS1, even if the Saturn was a lot more capable than that port of Daytona USA. So this type of half-truths and misinformation, it's almost as old as the industry itself, and it's usually done to paint a perception or shit a narrative before the generation actually gets under way.

So I'd advise people to always question these sort of things, regardless if they come off as pro-Sony, pro-Microsoft, whatever. At this current stage of the next-gen pipeline, ask yourself why a 3rd-party developer (who has a prior history with one of the other platform holders that didn't necessarily go over well), would put out performance speculation of this ilk, in this context, before the systems have even launched, following a reveal event for one of the systems that was met with strong backlash by a big group of gamers and people who love discussing these system specs at this time before new consoles release?

That's all I'm saying.
 
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IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Still more inclined to believe in a professional.
Well I was correcting you, who were implying CUs are something devs have to code for. The dev in the OP did not claim that., I was just saying I don't like how he compared CUs to CPUs as it's a bit misleading considering how a dev take advantage of CUs is quite different than CPU cores.

So go on and believe him if you want; I was correcting something you implied not him. I can still criticize his analogy.

And I am a software developer, just not a game developer. 2 entirely different worlds, but I can at least understand why the coding efforts are different between taking advantage of CPU cores vs CUs.

edit: I'm also trying to track down a link for you.. DF did a test of cards with different CU count/frequency comparisons that showed that increasing CUs is generally better than increasing frequencies. GPU frequency has diminishing returns vs. CU counts.
 
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CJY

Banned
A person who understands you have to specifically code for multi-threaded operations on a CPU to take advantage of extra cores but just throw workloads at a GPU and it does the work of using it's CUs? Devs dont have to code around CUs, it's just not how they work. It kinda works as an analogy (wider is not always better) but fails once you get into how you have to code for the 2 scenarios is so vastly different. Hence why I think you were mislead, your welcome for correcting you I guess?
I see what you're saying, but GPUs do a lot more than just pushing graphics.

Async compute was a major thing this generation, but it's said only a small handful (less than 10) of studios actually use it extensively, and it will be even more prevalent next gen. Async compute is not trivial to paralellize and it is more akin to programming for individual cores, although the API can handle a lot of the scheduling, it's definitely not like graphics.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Yeah, after seeing his twitter feed, I'm sure it's because of that.

What he says about PS4.



He played Journey (one of best games in his opinion) in a cafe because he doesn’t own a PS4.... the method he find to play it free.



That basically confirm he doesn’t have a PS4... he could have owned in the past and perhaps it died? So he bought a Xbox.

So he is a Sony fanboys that only owns a Xbox One X lol
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
We are into food analogies now.

Big brain time has truly been reached.
  • Xbox Series X - Chik Fila Spicy Chicken Sandwich. High quality and delicious, but also expensive and makes you feel bad for eating at a place that spreads FUD about homosexuality/PS5.
  • PS5 - Popeyes Spicy Chicken Sandwich. Cheaper and greasier, but thicker and tastes better. It will probably kill you/itself faster with its high cholesterol/clocks.
  • Lockhart - McChicken. Cheapest option on the menu. You think you are getting a great deal, but then you take a bite and wonder why you ever thought 4 tflops would be enough.
 

Dnice1

Member
  • Xbox Series X - Chik Fila Spicy Chicken Sandwich. High quality and delicious, but also expensive and makes you feel bad for eating at a place that spreads FUD about homosexuality/PS5.
  • PS5 - Popeyes Spicy Chicken Sandwich. Cheaper and greasier, but thicker and tastes better. It will probably kill you/itself faster with its high cholesterol/clocks.
  • Lockhart - McChicken. Cheapest option on the menu. You think you are getting a great deal, but then you take a bite and wonder why you ever thought 4 tflops would be enough.
I Chuckl'd
 
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