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[alabtrosMyster]

This isn't ARM, Cell or some custom hardware which has theoretical unknown ceilings, it's just reconfigured x86 PC hardware.

What is the obsession around here with trying to make generic PC hardware in a closed system appear elegant..

The only thing PC in this part are the CPU and GPU, nothing is off the shelf PC parts, it has tons of custom silicon, a custom OS, libraries, all just made for gaming. The way the SSD drive is controlled to provide data directly to the GPU's memory within the time of a few frames is not happening in your PC any time soon, especially if you need to decompress 9GB worth of it on the fly. IT also has its very own sound processing silicon, that does not seem to happen much on PCs these days either, not in anyway like what is offered by the PS5.

Even if that was just the OS, Windows 10 is still bloated compared to Unix based systems... put a Unix system with good video cards drivers and great gaming related libraries and you would end up with a better gaming ecosystem than anything Windows can offer in therms of performance.... Obviously you got all the existing software that you can run on windows, this is a very strong argument for the platform to remain.

 

[onQ123]

Of course it matched, you guys are trying to add levels of complexity to all of this that simply doesn't exist.

What he said is a fact GPU's are made for more than just games so the chances of a video game maxing out the compute limits of a GPU is really small it would take an amazing programmer to make a console GPU reach it's peak all throughout a game.

 

[bitbydeath]

This is amazing. PS5's solution managed to be at a similar performance to an obviously bigger and more expensive XSeX solution. And probably surpass it in texture fidelity once the ultra-fast SSD is used to its fullest. Cerny is a genius.

The IO enhancements and faster SSD has probably levelled them out to be around the same price.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

This is amazing. PS5's solution managed to be at a similar performance to an obviously bigger and more expensive XSeX solution. And probably surpass it in texture fidelity once the ultra-fast SSD is used to its fullest. Cerny is a genius.

I think the xsx will have an advantage in fighting games where no dynamic loading is happening, beyond the slower initial loading time once everything is loaded it could compute faster.

But who am I to know all this?

 

[DynamiteCop!]

The only thing PC in this part are the CPU and GPU, nothing is off the shelf PC parts, it has tons of custom silicon, a custom OS, libraries, all just made for gaming. The way the SSD drive is controlled to provide data directly to the GPU's memory within the time of a few frames is not happening in your PC any time soon, especially if you need to decompress 9GB worth of it on the fly. IT also has its very own sound processing silicon, that does not seem to happen much on PCs these days either, not in anyway like what is offered by the PS5.

Even if that was just the OS, Windows 10 is still bloated compared to Unix based systems... put a Unix system with good video cards drivers and great gaming related libraries and you would end up with a better gaming ecosystem than anything Windows can offer in therms of performance.... Obviously you got all the existing software that you can run on windows, this is a very strong argument for the platform to remain.

None of this changes the intrinsic capability of the hardware itself. Existing consoles are built under these same processing and rendering paradigms with semi-custom design and yet they perform exactly as expected because the hardware is predictable given it's all sourced from the x86 PC sector.

I appreciate your posts because they actually come with a modicum of seriousness but at the same time I find them just as ridiculous as the hyperbolic drivel shelled out by others here. Both CPU's will perform similar to a Ryzen 1600AF assuming it had 8 cores, one slightly better than the other. One GPU will perform around the level of a 2070 Super, the other around the level of a 2080 Super.

This isn't groundbreaking or controversial, it's common sense, because like the above discrete hardware the application of these components in these consoles is equally predictable.

 

[megreotsugua]

I think the xsx will have an advantage in fighting games where no dynamic loading is happening, beyond the slower initial loading time once everything is loaded it could compute faster.

But who am I to know all this?

You have a point. PS5's advantage for this kind of game though would be no 6 second loading every time you start a round.

 

[onQ123]

I think the xsx will have an advantage in fighting games where no dynamic loading is happening, beyond the slower initial loading time once everything is loaded it could compute faster.

But who am I to know all this?

Yeah if the game is built on old standards & don't take advantage of the fact that you can stream new data in each second.


But I think we will see fighting games with no boundaries like starting the fight on one stage but it can end on any stage in the game because loading the stages in is no longer a issue.

 

[Shmunter]

This is amazing. PS5's solution managed to be at a similar performance to an obviously bigger and more expensive XSeX solution. And probably surpass it in texture fidelity once the ultra-fast SSD is used to its fullest. Cerny is a genius.

While the efficiency of the GPU pipeline can be debated - I agree results will need a DF analysis to assess difference. But theSSD has unequivocal potential for broader range of LOD. LOD in the form of textures, models & animation being brought in as required. The speed delta is wide enough for visible differences in like for like comparisons.

Potential being key. How many developers unleash this is debatable, they have to build games all the way down to PC HDD's / cross gen games. 1st party exempt and some under the table moneyhatting possible - but certainly not universal.

Looking forward to seeing stuff.

 

[megreotsugua]

The IO enhancements and faster SSD has probably levelled them out to be around the same price.

I also think both machines will be sold at the same price although I think PS5's BOM is a little bit lower than XSeX.

IO enhancements is part of the APU. Sony is using 12 relatively slow Nand chips (less expensive), while their controller is in-house while MS pays Phison for theirs.

 

[Shmunter]

You have a point. PS5's advantage for this kind of game though would be no 6 second loading every time you start a round.

Not even. Fighting games do a lot of camera work and zooming. Underskirt shots could take on a whole new meaning.

 

[polybius80]

The fact he said "probably" tells me he knows fuck all. Even though MS as well stressed that its 12tf at all times.

apparently you don't understand how the specs work and that is the confusion

if a system is 12 tf that is a measure of capacity, it means how much calculations its capable of doing in a second, it is true but doesnt mean it do all of them the reason it cannot do all of them is because in a game all calculations are variable because not everything on scene is the same frame by frame and some things keep the GPU iddle in "bubbles" those bubble are milliseconds long they can form depending what you do and the order its done, the GPU is waiting for something before doing something else that time is calculations wort that are wasted that second, all of that depends how you program it and what the APIs do, to put you an example in game design for PC its common to join all textures in a one big texture that contains all textures this is called texture atlas usually you will do ti this way despite the fact you can change textures very easily butyou do will use the texture atlas because the instruction of changing a texture is very expensive so is preferable having a very big texture than small ones other wise your game will drop frames compared to the same using a texture atlas you can use texture units and combine them in shaders but realisitcally your sprites are better in one big texture

its like a power supply, lets say your pc has a 500w power supply, take a multimeter(with caution if your country uses 220 volts) and check how many amps its using, you will find the amount of amps it uses changes depending what your pc is doing or if you preffer another example is like a sports car tryng to go as fast as it can trough a city, you cannot go max speed to take a corner, there are zones where you have to lower the speed, the red lights and stop signs and the amount of other cars sure your car can go at max speed but your realisitic use(using it in a city) wont allow you to go at that speed all the time a game in this case is like you go from your home to a particular street in the city at certain hour not all the street you have to pass allows the same speed if you are not good at driving in a city or you dont know shortcust you will have more troubles than a good driver no matter if you have the faster car

 

[bitbydeath]

You have a point. PS5's advantage for this kind of game though would be no 6 second loading every time you start a round.

This comment makes me wonder how cross-play games will work next-gen.

 

[HeadsUp7Up]

But I think we will see fighting games with no boundaries like starting the fight on one stage but it can end on any stage in the game because loading the stages in is no longer a issue.

This is the kind of next gen thinking I’m talking about!

 

[DynamiteCop!]

This comment makes me wonder how cross-play games will work next-gen.

Exactly as they do now because every platform loads games are varying speeds.

 

[lucius]

So Crytek is trash now ?

I am replaying Ryse Legendary on my X now while not the deepest gameplay it’s a fun game with visuals comparable to a Naughty dog game arguably better . So their relationship with MS got so bad he will lie about multiple things, seems he explains most points with reasons. The whole power thing won’t matter in the end that much, I mean we are certain to get refreshes mid gen from MS at least, maybe sooner. He did kind of let one thing out that I only heard rumors about so we will see.

The overheating can be troubling, it never killed 360 momentum though I don’t think we see another company ever get away with that, that would kill Sony actually imo if that happened as widespread as 360 failure rate.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

For those of you trying to reason with the Xbox fanboys, you're wasting your time. They will never accept the truth that the reported maximum performance level of a GPU in terms of teraflops is theoretical as it is attainable only under ideal conditions, which rarely occur in real-world scenarios. Furthermore, they will never accept that the PS5's simple design and blazingly fast data transfer rates make its likelihood of performing at its theoretical level of power much greater than that of the Xbox Series X since the latter has a rather traditional, complex architecture that's compounded by the asymmetrical bandwidth allocation of its volatile memory pool. They'll never accept these truths, so just leave them alone.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

Lol see you soon. May the power of the teraflops help you.

God, why did I picture Zordon just now?

I need sleep.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

Of course it matched, you guys are trying to add levels of complexity to all of this that simply doesn't exist.

...and I thought I needed sleep.

 

[LMJ]

It's good to hear that Sony is going developer friendly as possible with the PSV

Honestly based on the interview (before it was redacted) that's the impression I get that the playstation 5 is preferred due to its ease of use and its efficiency...

However the dev also clearly understands that the xbox is more powerful, and toward the halfway/end of the generation when MS has been able to get a handle on everything the XseX will clearly show that, at least that's what I interpreted from all of us...

It does give some credence to my personal opinion that is that these consoles are very close in terms of power with the XseX edging out the PSV, ultimately each one will have its strengths and the differences this time will likely be much harder to perceive until toward the end of the generation when sheer power will just likely come out on top...

 

[Ashoca]

So, Crytek is now looking for a new Rendering Engineer in Frankfurt: https://www.crytek.com/career/offer...ming-engineering/rendering-engineer-cryengine

What does that mean?

 

[FranXico]

The majority of the people that've been speaking of PS5's design merits since Road to PS5 are Sony 1st-party, like the ones Jason Schreir talked to.

Jason Schreier was explicit that he got that feedback from third-party developers.

 

[FranXico]

But I think we will see fighting games with no boundaries like starting the fight on one stage but it can end on any stage in the game because loading the stages in is no longer a issue.

You're only thinking of the stages? My friend... #MakeShangTsungGreatAgain

 

[BluRayHiDef]

So, Crytek is now looking for a new Rendering Engineer in Frankfurt: https://www.crytek.com/career/offer...ming-engineering/rendering-engineer-cryengine

What does that mean?

That the rendering engineer who was interviewed was fired?

 

[DynamiteCop!]

So, Crytek is now looking for a new Rendering Engineer in Frankfurt: https://www.crytek.com/career/offer...ming-engineering/rendering-engineer-cryengine

What does that mean?

 

[FranXico]

Happy that he got fired for saying he liked working on the PS5?

 

[SenjutsuSage]

So, Crytek is now looking for a new Rendering Engineer in Frankfurt: https://www.crytek.com/career/offer...ming-engineering/rendering-engineer-cryengine

What does that mean?

It probably means exactly what it looks like. That's his position there in the job listing at the very studio that I believe he worked at. Crytek, a studio known for pushing DirectX and using all the latest features before many other studios, likely wouldn't appreciate the statements he made. The comments also don't exactly paint them in the best light, particularly because much of what he said simply wasn't even true and pass the smell test by anyone's standards, much less Crytek's.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Happy that he got fired for saying he liked working on the PS5?

He never even stated he had access to the hardware and there's no implication he did either. Most of what he was saying could be chalked up to biased fanboyism, a lot of it wasn't logically conducive and outright inaccurate and he brought it upon himself to give an unauthorized and clearly inaccurate interview.

Not happy necessarily but it was absolutely deserved. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Not sure what is there to be so smug about it mate (sure, he did speak rationally against your narrative of choice and we cannot have that), but you do you.

 

[FranXico]

He never even stated he had access to the hardware and there's no implication he did either. Most of what he was saying could be chalked up to biased fanboyism, a lot of it wasn't logically conducive and outright inaccurate and he brought it upon himself to give an unauthorized and clearly inaccurate interview.

Not happy necessarily but it was absolutely deserved. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Aye. I get you. NDAs are to be respected, fanboyism as an industry professional never pays off.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It probably means exactly what it looks like. That's his position there in the job listing at the very studio that I believe he worked at. Crytek, a studio known for pushing DirectX and using all the latest features before many other studios, likely wouldn't appreciate the statements he made. The comments also don't exactly paint them in the best light, particularly because much of what he said simply wasn't even true and pass the smell test by anyone's standards, much less Crytek's.

For me the policy in company of this sector is simple: a non HR and Marketing approved interview that can be seen as officially representing the company is ground for dismissal (if the company is not put in the best light possible and there is any sort of perceived damage).
Comments that can potentially lead MS to believe he broke NDA and worsen the relationship Crytek has with them would only result in one thing in many companies: dismissal.

Now, if the “AMD person” behind the “GitHub leak” got dismissed, would that prove what was in the “leak” was also incorrect and biased, etc...? Beyond people with a lot less experience in the field saying that they know better and stretching the guy’s words beyond belief, I am not sure if he what he said was 100% factual but not sure it was 100% irrational crap either.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Happy that he got fired for saying he liked working on the PS5?

He could probably find a job at a Sony first-party development team, since he's generated positive buzz about Sony's machine.

 

[Panajev2001a]

He could probably find a job at a Sony first-party development team, since he's generated positive buzz about Sony's machine.

Nah, things like this tend to burn bridges with other employers too for a while.

 

[onQ123]

You're only thinking of the stages? My friend... #MakeShangTsungGreatAgain

Yeah so many things that got lost in the transition to 3D & disc can be brought back to gaming now.

 

[Ashoca]

The comments also don't exactly paint them in the best light, particularly because much of what he said simply wasn't even true and pass the smell test by anyone's standards, much less Crytek's.

I agree, if I would be his manager and see the stuff he said, there are a lot of factually wrong things.. especially at Crytek, where they have a very high technical standard.

Hopefully we will see some games soon

 

[rnlval]

Some people's reaction when they read this:

And that's straight from a DICE dev's mouth

Meanwhile....

From EA DICE...

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Happy that he got fired for saying he liked working on the PS5?

I don't know what happened to the guy, but what he said was highly inaccurate and would probably be embarrassing to the studio. It's one thing to say there's more than just the numbers, but those whole set of statements looked like a total PR piece for the playstation 5. It just came off pretty bad. Nearly everything he said was misleading and a gross downplaying of what the true situation is likely to be. He went further than simply acknowledging where there may be some positives to the PS5 setup. He was literally spreading nonsense about how the GPU can't use the entire 12TFLOPs. That is utter nonsense.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I agree, if I would be his manager and see the stuff he said, there are a lot of factually wrong things.. especially at Crytek, where they have a very high technical standard.

Hopefully we will see some games soon ☺

What he said may have negatively impacted Crytek's reputation and relationship with Microsoft but it wasn't factually wrong in any way (you just want it to be so because you're a fan or Xbox).

 

[CuteFaceJay]

One dev states it's not so great Vs another saying otherwise.

This sounds like player preference at this point if you ask me.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

What he said may have negatively impacted Crytek's reputation and relationship with Microsoft but it wasn't factually wrong in any way (you just want it to be so because you're a fan or Xbox).

Him saying they'll almost never hit all 12TFLOPs of performance on the GPU is nonsense.

 

[GHG]

So now people are celebrating the fact that he might have been fired?

Between this and the recent discord chat logs some people are really showing their arses at the moment.

Zero respect for anyone who is/was actively part of that discord (or similar ones because I don't doubt there's similar discords for this forum). Air your laundry publicly, if you can't then what's the point of posting on forums (unless you're being paid to do so, but that's another discussion...)?

 

[DynamiteCop!]

So now people are celebrating the fact that he might have been fired?

Between this and the recent discord chat logs some people are really showing their arses at the moment.

Zero respect for anyone who is/was actively part of that discord (or similar ones because I don't doubt there's similar discords for this forum). Air your laundry publicly, if you can't then what's the point of posting on forums (unless you're being paid to do so, but that's another discussion...)?

Where's the morality in this? The guy said a bunch of inaccurate stuff and he greatly overstepped his bounds seeping into fan logic. He deserved to be fired, not exactly a lot of controversy here.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Him saying they'll almost never hit all 12TFLOPs of performance on the GPU is nonsense.

Why? Difference between theoretical peaks and getting that sustained performance being easier or not depending on the HW configuration at hand and ease of extracting that performance (easier as the generation advances).

People had no trouble pulling this argument against CELL in PS3 and the Emotion Engine + GS in PS2 (remember the “GCN and DC are more awesome because they are easier to program for and have high sustained performance and not just hyped up max theoretical performance difficult to obtain”... and other arguments like that?)... but now it is suddenly not even conceivable?!
I am not saying then it has to be true, but not even conceivable?!

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Why? Difference between theoretical peaks and getting that sustained performance being easier or not depending on the HW configuration at hand and ease of extracting that performance (easier as the generation advances).

People had no trouble pulling this argument against CELL in PS3 and the Emotion Engine + GS in PS2 (remember the “GCN and DC are more awesome because they are easier to program for and have high sustained performance and not just hyped up max theoretical performance difficult to obtain”... and other arguments like that?)... but now it is suddenly not even conceivable?!
I am not saying then it has to be true, but not even conceivable?!

I get what you're saying, but Cell Processor the Series X setup is not. It's not even in the same stratosphere. Also, didn't you work for Lionhead?

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Why? Difference between theoretical peaks and getting that sustained performance being easier or not depending on the HW configuration at hand and ease of extracting that performance (easier as the generation advances).

People had no trouble pulling this argument against CELL in PS3 and the Emotion Engine + GS in PS2 (remember the “GCN and DC are more awesome because they are easier to program for and have high sustained performance and not just hyped up max theoretical performance difficult to obtain”... and other arguments like that?)... but now it is suddenly not even conceivable?!
I am not saying then it has to be true, but not even conceivable?!

It's x86, it's all gaming PC's use, every single bit of game code is written on and around it bar for Nintendo. Comparing this to the Cell architecture in terms of theoretics is inconceivably laughable.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Where's the morality in this? The guy said a bunch of inaccurate stuff and he greatly overstepped his bounds seeping into fan logic. He deserved to be fired, not exactly a lot of controversy here.

He was not fired for statements accuracy, he would have been fired regardless of that and you know it. Had he criticised Sony fairly in the same scenario he would have probably been fired too (not approved interview speaking on the company’s behalf and creating problems with one of the vendors you sell to). You know this.

If months and months ago the AMD leaker has been outed and fired, not sure that would have made what he said BS by definition and people should not have cheered at that either.

 

[GHG]

Where's the morality in this? The guy said a bunch of inaccurate stuff and he greatly overstepped his bounds seeping into fan logic. He deserved to be fired, not exactly a lot of controversy here.

No.

He said a bunch of stuff you don't happen to like. Whether it's "accurate" or not is another discussion but the fact is he's either worked on the consoles (or works closely alongside those who do). You've done neither. For that reason I'll take his word over yours, no matter how much you want to cry about him being "wrong" only to run away from the discussion whenever you find yourself out of your depth or your rebuttals disproven.

So because this whole thing is hurting your fragile ego, which is intrinsically linked to the performance of a particular brand of console, you are now deriving satisfaction from seeing this guy potentially lose his job. That's sad to say the least.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

He was not fired for statements accuracy, he would have been fired regardless of that and you know it. Had he criticised Sony fairly in the same scenario he would have probably been fired too (not approved interview speaking on the company’s behalf and creating problems with one of the vendors you sell to). You know this.

If months and months ago the AMD leaker has been outed and fired, not sure that would have made what he said BS by definition and people should not have cheered at that either.

Anybody with their head firmly fastened to their shoulders knows that whole spiel was littered with inaccuracies and nonsense, regardless of the reason for the firing it wasn't credible information, and it was veiled in fanaticism.

Also there was no AMD leaker, the whole GitHub situation wasn't intentional. You have a really bad habit of comparing things that are incomparable.

 

[rnlval]

He is correct in what he said.
It is pretty hard to use all CUs in a GPU and that why nVidia choose a long time ago a more efficient way with less processing units and better clocks.
Most games if not all can’t parallelism all CUs in AMD cards and that why you can simultaneously use the non-used CUs to compute tasks in AMD architecture.
He did not say anything wrong at all even Cerny said the same few weeks ago.

And high clocks helping the GPU is something already know for years if not decades already.

And your second comment is wrong too... GPUs can’t automatically parallelism workload and that is why you need to code to send calls in waves... if you don’t send enough calls to load all CUs it will be stay unused.

RTX 2080 Ti (TU102) has 68 CU FP equivalent with an equal number of integer units i.e. 68 CU FP32 and 68 CU integers.

RTX 2080 Super (TU104) has 48 CU FP equivalent with an equal number of integer units i.e. 48 CU FP32 and 48 CU integers.

This is not including TFLOPS from Tensor and RT cores.

NVIDIA has the TFLOPS/TIOPS high ground with Turing TU102 flagship.

You're claiming AMD's NAVI cards are like GCN and doomed to fail against the might of NVIDIA's "It just works" RTX 2080 Ti and Titan RTX. If your argument is correct, then "big NAVI" fails like Radeon VII.

Meanwhile, XSX GPU has RTX 2080 like results from Unreal Engine 4 based Gears 5 two weeks port. Many games are powered by Unreal Engine 4.x


PS; I have MSI RTX 2080 Ti Gaming X Trio OC. Raytracing needs a lot of low latency TFLOPS and high memory bandwidth.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

No.

He said a bunch of stuff you don't happen to like. Whether it's "accurate" or not is another discussion but the fact is he's either worked on the consoles (or works closely alongside those who do). You've done neither. For that reason I'll take his word over yours, no matter how much you want to cry about him being "wrong" only to run away from the discussion whenever you find yourself out of your depth or your rebuttals disproven.

So because this whole thing is hurting your fragile ego, which is intrinsically linked to the performance of a particular brand of console, you are now deriving satisfaction from seeing this guy potentially lose his job. That's sad to say the least.

Blind faith is without a doubt one of the most unintelligent methods of deriving accuracy in information there is. It's a complete dismissal of criticism, a complete shirking of counter-logic. I couldn't care less which direction all of this was aimed, a lot of it was wrong, flat out.

The real problem isn't what he said, it's how people so blindly rush behind this trash and defend it at all costs like it's gospel.

 

[Rick Dangerous]

It's x86, it's all gaming PC's use, every single bit of game code is written on and around it bar for Nintendo. Comparing this to the Cell architecture in terms of theoretics is inconceivably laughable.

I thought you were done with this thread. My bad.