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[Kestastrophe]

Any sadness I feel is for the people who miss out on these franchises because they're stuck in the land of "I only play FPS's" that the 360 had created for many gamers.

 

[Doubledex]

Well he works hard and makes absolutely no effort in disguising his posts so I think he deserves some praise.

I should "disguise" my posts? Why? Because of some freaks like which are already shouting "fanboy OMG LOOK!!!!!1" ?
Should I start a list-war? Should I name alle SCE titles, just to make YOU happy?
No, my opinion is and was "SCEs 1st party games are the best since 2 generations". That's my opinion and I wrote that in my post above.
So, it's still wrong? Go and buy yourself a cookie then!
(Grammar-problem? I know )

 

[gofreak]

Why do we care, we still get to play the games. Even in the worst case scenario of the PS3 never being a runaway success, these franchises and/or developers will just shuffle to another camp.

Any sadness I feel is for the people who miss out on these franchises because they're stuck in the land of "I only play FPS's" that the 360 had created for many gamers.

I don't think we should care how popular the games are as long as they're popular enough to keep Sony publishing.

Because I think in certain circumstances games do benefit from being with one kind of publisher vs another, and Sony is a kind I'd like to keep around for certain types of game.

For example, if LBP had 'shuffled over' to, say, a certain other publisher on a certain other platform, I can't imagine it turning out as well as it has.

More broadly there aren't a lot of publishers left willing to invest in developers to do their own thing and to take bigger risks..so the success of their games is important in so far as their successful enough to encourage such publishers to keep doing what they do. I don't think 'successful enough' means mega-hits, though, and I do think we preoccupy ourselves too much with sales generally..but their success matters to a point.

 

[Kunan]

Nope. We've already established Galaxy is worth 30 games and Team Ico games are worth 50.

Ico was good but not THAT good. Same goes for Collosus. I'm going to be burned at a stake for saying this, but while I loved them, I wouldn't call them the best thing ever.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

I just don't see anything in the exclusive lineups of the other consoles that can touch the breadth of the PS3s.

Other than Resistance 2 and Rathet & Clank , there aren't many Sony 1st party games I give a shit about. So yeah this topic is all based on opinions and there is no fact to it. The OP displays once again why posters on gaf tend to confuse opinions/preferences with facts.

 

[Kilrogg]

You could feel that way, but you'd be wrong.

Spoiler

Nintendo is much more numbers focused in software development than either Sony or MS. Their games and game releases are designed with two things in mind: 1) Profit and 2) Future Profit.

1) Profit

Nintendo are very consistent with delivering quality product, mainly because they want to maintain their brand equity. This is why they polish and refine games to the extent they do - if customers equate the Nintendo brand with quality, they will keep coming back. They will tend toward delaying games if they are not ready for market or disallowing localisations if a game is deemed to potentially damage brand equity. This holds true even if it means leaving larger than usual gaps in their release schedules.

2) Future Profit

Nintendo are all about innovation because they want to continue profiting in the future. It seems a business truism, but time and again, they try wacky new ideas in the hopes of creating a new market for their products so that when the current market dies away, Nintendo doesn't go with it.

They spend a SHITLOAD on R&D, most of which goes towards creating ideas that don't ever go anywhere. Occasionally they will strike gold and come up with something like the DS, but they also come up with ideas like GCN/GBA connectivity. Regardless of how you feel about the end product, when developing new product lines, Nintendo spares no expense - it's conceivable that they spent more time/money developing Wii Sports/Wii Fit/Wii Music (new product line) than they did on Super Mario Galaxy (extension of an existing product line), for instance.

Thing is, much to the consternation of tech fetishists, this means that they try to mitigate risks associated with new product line launches by cheaping out on the large scale manufacturing. This means that even if the product is a flop, they will either profit or only lose small amounts. Thus, Nintendo hardware is always built with "antiquated" technology (though they try to design it as efficient as possible within those bounds), its main draw coming from its software. This happened with the NES, the Gameboy, the Gamecube and the Wii.

Sony's development is about pushing tech forward, you are correct, as cultivating the customer who is willing to buy cutting edge tech for a premium has traditionally been Sony's bread and butter. Their focus on innovation is of a different kind than that of Nintendo, at least when it comes to SCE (and its various regional counterparts), as these are more about refinement and the logical progression of existing tech (from other parts of the business) than they are about coming up with new ideas.

Which isn't to say that Nintendo don't consider on tech to be important (look at the long march of the development of the Wiimote) or that Sony don't look at developing new ideas at all (look at Team Ico's games). The two companies' strategies are different.

Microsoft, on the other hand, are all about cock-blocking Sony, so the money is less important.

Why do I always struggle to express things in such a concise, convincing way? People like you, Opiate and kame-sennin always come up with those brilliant posts in which there's nothing to add and nothing to remove. I wish I could do that too .

Oh well, I guess there's one thing you didn't make clear enough: the majority of Nintendo's business has to do with videogames. They have to innovate and expand the market, lest they go out of business. If one day, video games were to become irrelevant, Nintendo will more than likely leave the industry and go somewhere else before it's too late. Until that scenario happens, they'll try and revitalize the market again and again, just as they've done with the Wii/DS. They don't have any other choice if they are to remain a successful video game company.

 

[beelzebozo]

Ico was good but not THAT good. Same goes for Collosus. I'm going to be burned at a stake for saying this, but while I loved them, I wouldn't call them the best thing ever.

why would you be burned at the stake for stating your opinion? at least you didn't make an entire thread and purport that your opinion was irrefutable fact.

 

[MotherFan]

So is this the weekly Sony Fanboy Morale thread?

Anyways, it depends on who you talk to. I could care less about games like resistance, I rather play fire emblem, mario, zelda etc. It really is a matter of opinion, though.

 

[jax (old)]

My most played console.

FACT


If you don't own a PS3, you're missing out. the exclusive titles wholely make this console worth owning.

Lots of incredible PSN exclusives too. Love PJE/PJM/Wipeout+more.

Just so good.

 

[Shurs]

So is this the weekly Sony Fanboy Morale thread?

Anyways, it depends on who you talk to. I could care less about games like resistance, I rather play fire emblem, mario, zelda etc. It really is a matter of opinion, though.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

why would you be burned at the stake for stating your opinion? at least you didn't make an entire thread and purport that your opinion was irrefutable fact.

Maybe you are forgetting where you are at. This is neogaf, where you get burned for anything and everything that doesn't conform with the opinions of the majority here.

I partially agree with his reply. I love Ico and still play once in awhile but I don't deem it classic like I do with Panzer Dragoon series. As for SOTC, I found ti quite boring and uninteresting. Hopefully Team Ico next game goes back to the Ico formula and not the horrible SOTC formula.

 

[StuBurns]

I do favor Sony this generation, as I have the last two, but I don't think they're blowing the competition away by any stretch. LBP was great, Uncharted is really good, but I think all the Insomniac games have blown, GT5P is a pointless development cost recoup. KZ2 was good but not amazing or anything. In terms of third parties they're doing pretty well also, MGS4 was great, FFVersusXIII is probably the game I'm most excited about. PSN is certainly very awesome, Flower is my game of the year so far, Eden was very cool too.

If we're talking about potential, sure. Trico (I think ICO is the best game I've played, and SotC was awesome too), GoW3 (going to be rock solid I'm sure), Heavy Rain looks awesome, GT5 will be great no doubt. But as of right now, the three first parties are all pretty weak, Galaxy is great, nothing else from Nintendo really for me. Microsoft had Fable 2 which I thought was very cool, and they have Mass Effect tied up, which is my favorite western RPG at the moment.

I think Sony is providing the best, but by a long shot? No.

 

[beelzebozo]

ICO and SOTC were good games and nice little interesting, supplementary experiences to my larger game playing. they're part of the ps2's fantastic supporting cast, but were not fleshed out conceptually enough to be hailed as blockbusters (by me, anyway).

 

[demolitiongc1]

I think SONY's first party lineup suffers from mediocrity.

Their games are good, but they aren't special.

Uncharted is a pretty Tomb Raider with some Gears of Wars and PoP. The game is excellent, but it does nothing new.
Killzone 2 is another shooter; a great one with pretty graphics, but nothing that haven't been done before (and this generation has delivered in the same genre a lot of games).
Ratchet and Clank is the same old Ratchet and Clank with better graphics.
Wipeout is the same.
Resistance is the same as Killzone.
Motorstorm is your average racer with awesome physics and graphics. Hell, most gaffers prefer the superior Excite Truck to this (which is a lot more original).
And I could go on and on.

The only "different" (retail) game they have released is LBP, and it failed to do anything because it was released to a userbase accustomed on getting more of the same with better graphics.

The difference with Nintendo's games, is that Nintendo has been disruptive this generation.
They have this awesome Wii Fit software (that was not cheap to make); that is so successful that even my mom talked to me about the Wii and Wii Fit (she has never even mentioned a console before).
Wii Sports and Wii Play are little experiments that changed the way we play many successful or not types of games.

You have the old games with some sort of special add on, that have been greatly successful (Mario Kart, Wario Ware, Mario Party, etc).

Then you see the games that are more of the same, but better, the "core" games (Galaxy, Fire Emblem, Smash, Zelda, Metroid, etc) and they have sold a comparable amount of what those series always sell.

And you see people preferring playing sports games with the Wii remote (Tiger Woods is a good example). Also there are two big companies right now fighting for the next big hit tennis game on the Wii.
You see people preferring the Wii versions of snowboards games (Shaun...) because of the balance board.

You see, the problem with the PS3 is that the only new things it brought are a good (not great) and free online infrastructure, and Blu-Ray playing capabilities, and most of the games suffer the "most of the same with better graphics" stigma (deserved).

In the end, the people have spoken. Wii first party lineup is by far the best and it is not even a close contest. Fight for the second place.

Hit the nail on the head

 

[a.wd]

Whilst I have all the consoles, I know that I have a preference for one 1st party/exclusive publisher...

....


....

 

[Vinci]

Well I guess though according to this thread the Dreamcast wasn't one of the greatest systems of all time because it didn't sell well. And all the games for it suck and WiiFit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mario Galaxy. And nintendogs is the game of the generation.

In sales, all of that would be accurate. I've never argued that only good games sell and all good games do. Some don't. I was speaking subjectively based on my feelings during the Dreamcast's lifetime. I loved that system, and I feel Sega's output during its short span was better than practically anything else I can recall from any other hardware manufacturer (with the possible exception of the Wii's first 18 months, as Nintendo unleashed on the thing).

Do people actually believe sony is going to go out of business this generation. Sega is just a poorly run company I don't ever recall them being profitable since the saturn days. Some companies just have poor management.

Do I think Sony is going out of business this generation? No. Do I think things are looking good for them though? Not at all, and I certainly don't think they're in good shape going into next generation - unless things veer in another direction shortly. They've done a lot of things wrong this time around, and they have two competitors that have done many things right. To build themselves back up, they're going to have to show a great deal more innovation than I've seen from them recently.

I have high hopes though: But I want them to stop trying to kiss the hardcore's ass and make sure they start making money, first and foremost. However that has to happen.

Spoiler

I love my dreamcast. first and only console i ever bought launch day. we miss you sega

*salute*

 

[Scrow]

did anyone bring up the issue of defining what a first party is in this thread yet?

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

lol wat

It's as I've said. Look at the games they've released so far.

Super Smash Bros. was done by Sora.

Poke'mon Diamond and Pearl were done by Gamefreak

Excite Truck was done by Monster Games.

Disaster Day of Crisis was done by Monolith

Warioland Shake It! was done by Good Feel.

Etc.

I don't know why my statement has caused a stir. It's widely known that Nintendo is only a publisher.

 

[beelzebozo]

did anyone bring up the issue of defining what a first party is in this thread yet?

like a billion times, iirc. anihawk even defined it, then made huge lists illustrating his point.

 

[watership]

NPDs, then these threads for days after. Someone should do a study.

 

[Zhuk]

I think its disingenuous to say that any developer has a significantly superior first party line up than the other, in fact I would say that this generation has been quite good in that all the manufacturers have really delivered in providing compelling content for their consumers.

 

[Gokurakumaru]

I think SONY's first party lineup suffers from mediocrity.

Their games are good, but they aren't special.

Uncharted is a pretty Tomb Raider with some Gears of Wars and PoP. The game is excellent, but it does nothing new.
Killzone 2 is another shooter; a great one with pretty graphics, but nothing that haven't been done before (and this generation has delivered in the same genre a lot of games).
Ratchet and Clank is the same old Ratchet and Clank with better graphics.
Wipeout is the same.
Resistance is the same as Killzone.
Motorstorm is your average racer with awesome physics and graphics. Hell, most gaffers prefer the superior Excite Truck to this (which is a lot more original).
And I could go on and on.

The only "different" (retail) game they have released is LBP, and it failed to do anything because it was released to a userbase accustomed on getting more of the same with better graphics.

The difference with Nintendo's games, is that Nintendo has been disruptive this generation.
They have this awesome Wii Fit software (that was not cheap to make); that is so successful that even my mom talked to me about the Wii and Wii Fit (she has never even mentioned a console before).
Wii Sports and Wii Play are little experiments that changed the way we play many successful or not types of games.

You have the old games with some sort of special add on, that have been greatly successful (Mario Kart, Wario Ware, Mario Party, etc).

Then you see the games that are more of the same, but better, the "core" games (Galaxy, Fire Emblem, Smash, Zelda, Metroid, etc) and they have sold a comparable amount of what those series always sell.

And you see people preferring playing sports games with the Wii remote (Tiger Woods is a good example). Also there are two big companies right now fighting for the next big hit tennis game on the Wii.
You see people preferring the Wii versions of snowboards games (Shaun...) because of the balance board.

You see, the problem with the PS3 is that the only new things it brought are a good (not great) and free online infrastructure, and Blu-Ray playing capabilities, and most of the games suffer the "most of the same with better graphics" stigma (deserved).

In the end, the people have spoken. Wii first party lineup is by far the best and it is not even a close contest. Fight for the second place.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[jaypah]

So is this the weekly Sony Fanboy Morale thread?

no, it's the second one in a weeks time because WE JUST FUCKING HAD THIS THREAD! seriously, while i totally agree with the OP hands down we really did just have this thread. it was titled something like "Microsoft Writing Checks....." and was about Sony tooting their own first party horn and being salty at MS for running a business. i know all companies do it but it's just weird seeing Sony have to go there. seriously it was pretty sad to see Sony doing that but at least it was an actual Sony employee. this is......

well carry on.

 

[TigersFan]

Over last gen and this one I've admired Sony's commitment to new IPs and gameplay ideas. That said, I don't really consider Killzone 2, numerous sequels to R&C, Uncharted, Wipeout, or Motorstorm really exciting in that way at all. Their really exciting projects have either been PSN games and LBP (whatever team ICO has up its sleeve has my eye, but there's nothing to say about it that I've seen).

Since when do consumers give a fuck about whether things are first or third party though?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I enjoyed Crackdown, Halo, Gears, and Forza, does that make me a bad person?

 

[jaypah]

Over last gen and this one I've admired Sony's commitment to new IPs and gameplay ideas. That said, I don't really consider Killzone 2, numerous sequels to R&C, Uncharted, Wipeout, or Motorstorm really exciting in that way at all. Their really exciting projects have either been PSN games and LBP (whatever team ICO has up its sleeve has my eye, but there's nothing to say about it that I've seen).

Since when do consumers give a fuck about whether things are first or third party though?

it's pretty apparent that consumers don't care. a small sub group of consumers do though. the type that rally on message boards. you know, your garden variety console warrior (from all 3 camps).

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Their games are good, but they aren't special.

As if you would know. But hey, congratulations on having two of the worst posts in one of the worst threads around. You can always depend on curiously opinionated fanboys for quality posting!

 

[krypt0nian]

Funny how great production values somehow magically make games like UNCHARTED!!1, WOWHAWK and Resistance, great games. They're ok, but tell a really fucking sad tale about this gen if people think of them as "best of the best".

The real sad thing is you thinking that amazing gameplay has nothing to do with it. Stop talking out of your ass.

And get manueldelalas out of there while you're at it.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

To be fair, I don't think Uncharted would have been much talked about had it been a smelly third party game with so-so production values. Not sure why in the hell Warhawk was mashed in there, though.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Just because SMG was the last AAA title to hit the wii, doesn't mean you need to list it 30 times.

It doesn't matter though.. Nintendo could have released one AAA title and 3 average games and Nintendo fans would think it has the best first party lineup no matter what...

Only Nintendo fans think their first party studios are untouchable when recently besides SMG they haven't really been above and beyond like they once were.

BAWW someone disagrees with me

 

[EvilMario]

Mario Galaxy is worth 30 other games though.

Only 30!?

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Disagree.

More then 30 games combined?

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

It's as I've said. Look at the games they've released so far.

Super Smash Bros. was done by Sora.

Poke'mon Diamond and Pearl were done by Gamefreak

Excite Truck was done by Monster Games.

Disaster Day of Crisis was done by Monolith

Warioland Shake It! was done by Good Feel.

Etc.

I don't know why my statement has caused a stir. It's widely known that Nintendo is only a publisher.

WHAT.

Spoiler

wat.

 

[Tylahedras]

My 2 cents:

Those are all great games but they range from B to B+. So it's a high volume of solid titles, but the Wii has a couple first party AAA titles and the 360 has quite a few exclusive AAA titles.

The only AAA title exclusive the the PS3 (for me) is MGS4.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

Hmmm, lotta know-nothings in this thread!

 

[MisterHero]

It's as I've said. Look at the games they've released so far.

Super Smash Bros. was done by Sora.

Poke'mon Diamond and Pearl were done by Gamefreak

Excite Truck was done by Monster Games.

Disaster Day of Crisis was done by Monolith

Warioland Shake It! was done by Good Feel.

Etc.

I don't know why my statement has caused a stir. It's widely known that Nintendo is only a publisher.

Because games/franchises/installments of like Mario, the Wii-series, Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem, F-Zero, Donkey Kong, Nintendogs, Brain Age, Animal Crossing, Pilotwings, Warioware, and others didn't come out of Nintendo's internal developers.

sure

Sora (you should have said Game Arts) and Monolith are now owned by Nintendo, Game Freak is 2nd Party

just because they are the most successful publisher doesn't mean that they are only publishers

 

[Karma]

I enjoyed Crackdown, Halo, Gears, and Forza, does that make me a bad person?

Yes, you are not allowed to like 360 exclusives.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

More list wars?

I would say Sony's 1st and 2nd party games are the best quality they have ever been. It sure took them a while to get rolling though...

 

[Zoramon089]

It's as I've said. Look at the games they've released so far.

Super Smash Bros. was done by Sora.

Poke'mon Diamond and Pearl were done by Gamefreak

Excite Truck was done by Monster Games.

Disaster Day of Crisis was done by Monolith

Warioland Shake It! was done by Good Feel.

Etc.

I don't know why my statement has caused a stir. It's widely known that Nintendo is only a publisher.

Uhh, with the exception of Monster Games they're all 100% owned by Nintendo meaning THEY ARE NINTENDO not just devs which Nintendo publishes games for.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Because games/franchises/installments of like Mario, the Wii-series, Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem, F-Zero, Donkey Kong, Nintendogs, Brain Age, Animal Crossing, Pilotwings, Warioware, and others didn't come out of Nintendo's internal developers.

This list makes me even more confused. Metroid is by Retro Studios, Fire Emblem is by Intelligent Systems, F-Zero is a SEGA property, Donkey Kong was made by RARE, Nintendogs? What's that? If such a thing does exist I doubt it was very relevant during its release. Brain Age isn't really a game. Pilotwings? That was way back in the N64 days. Warioware is again by Intelligent Systems. Animal Crossing I'll give you but one game a generation doesn't really qualify as a "developer" IMHO. Developers develop games not develop game.

 

[MisterHero]

This list makes me even more confused. Metroid is by Retro Studios, Fire Emblem is by Intelligent Systems, F-Zero is a SEGA property, Donkey Kong was made by RARE, Nintendogs? What's that? If such a thing does exist I doubt it was very relevant during its release. Brain Age isn't really a game. Pilotwings? That was way back in the N64 days. Warioware is again by Intelligent Systems. Animal Crossing I'll give you but one game a generation doesn't really qualify as a "developer" IMHO. Developers develop games not develop game.

okay you're joking

i see now

 

[mclem]

Just 30?

30 games that are *all* Mario Galaxy.

It's so good, it's *recursively* awesome.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

This list makes me even more confused. Metroid is by Retro Studios, Fire Emblem is by Intelligent Systems, F-Zero is a SEGA property, Donkey Kong was made by RARE, Nintendogs? What's that? If such a thing does exist I doubt it was very relevant during its release. Brain Age isn't really a game. Pilotwings? That was way back in the N64 days. Warioware is again by Intelligent Systems. Animal Crossing I'll give you but one game a generation doesn't really qualify as a "developer" IMHO. Developers develop games not develop game.

oh i get it

you got choomed for 4/20, sweet mang

 

[beelzebozo]

:lol

why is it a frog

it's blowing my mind

 

[EmCeeGramr]

:lol

why is it a frog

it's blowing my mind

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=motorcycle+frog&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=

 

[Volcynika]

This list makes me even more confused. Metroid is by Retro Studios, Fire Emblem is by Intelligent Systems, F-Zero is a SEGA property, Donkey Kong was made by RARE, Nintendogs? What's that? If such a thing does exist I doubt it was very relevant during its release. Brain Age isn't really a game. Pilotwings? That was way back in the N64 days. Warioware is again by Intelligent Systems. Animal Crossing I'll give you but one game a generation doesn't really qualify as a "developer" IMHO. Developers develop games not develop game.

Thank you for the laugh I needed today. :lol

 

[RedRedSuit]

Hit the nail on the head

Not really. Just a bunch of opinions, and some wrong assessments (but then, so is the OP...). For example,

Uncharted is a pretty Tomb Raider with some Gears of Wars and PoP.

It is actually a pretty Gears of War with some PoP and very, very, very little Tomb Raider. Makes me think the guy hasn't played the game....

 

[Blueblur1]

Sony has the best first party software? Really?

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Repeating myself here

First party refers to the hardware manufacturer. Third party to a licensee publisher. That's all that is really relevant.

Besides to be technical, games nowadays are being developed by 2-3 studios cooperatively. It' be nothing but a debate to try and credit games based on developer studios origin.

In regards to some misinformed person trying to classify some Nintendo games.

Super Smash Bros. Brawl is a nice example of a first-party game developed developed by multiple developers.

Game Arts (24 people)
Project-Sora (Nintendo) (27 people)
HAL Laboratory (Nintendo affiliate) (4 people)
Nintendo EAD (Nintendo) (9 people)

ExciteTruck was developed by Monster Games inconjunction with Nintendo SPD2 under Nintenco Co. Ltd. The music, production, design support all came from SPD2 (Nintendo).

Again, let's say you throw out logic and want to create a "second-party" category regardless of the first-party publisher producing the game. How do you clasiffy the origin of a developer when development staffs of 50-100 people are composed of multiple studios now.

 

[Tain]

Funny how great production values somehow magically make games like UNCHARTED!!1, WOWHAWK and Resistance, great games. They're ok, but tell a really fucking sad tale about this gen if people think of them as "best of the best".

ah yeah those games are missing FUN and INNOVATION