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Breaking: Israel launches Operation Protective Edge against Hamas in Gaza
- Thread starter RustyNails
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Why would you think that? Honestly, people have some really strange perceptions about what humanity is.
Back during the Civil War, many citizens used to hear about battles that were coming and would come and sit on the hills around the battle to watch the "theatrics." Some would even cheer, for whatever side they wanted to win. Even when brothers were fighting brothers.
It happens all the time.
Edit: This is not an endorsement of this behavior.
Kadayi
Banned
Pretty sure I just talked about containment and control and nothing more, but do feel free to run wild with the other stuff.
I personally tend to see the entire thing as a case of segregation. The biggest parallel is really Apartheid South Africa in truth. For all intents and purposes Palestine as been annexed and for better or worse the Palestinian people are under the thumb of the Israeli government, a government that has no intention of ever offering them citizenship, continues to deny them human rights, and is happy to flounce international law under the umbrella of protection afforded it by the USA, all the while building on land and establishing settlements that are a statement of intent.
Glad we've reached accord on that front.
Yeah but you're talking about attitudes 100+ years ago.
captainnapalm
Member
I remember something smiler were Israel kids wrote something .... wait I found it xDDD
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/07/israeli-children-sign-their-missiles_18.html
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/...sraeli-kids-sends-gifts-of-love-to-arab-kids/
Israeli kids are some of the most propagandized children in the world. All the way from youth through to the compulsory military service. It's a core requirement of an apartheid state.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
It doesn't matter.
Baki
Member
You let the prisoners grow their own food. How benevolent of Israel.
You wouldn't happen to be Israeli would you? Would explain the patriotism (which is really in reference to your previous posts).
Patriotic ones, I guess? I am sure there are quite a lot of people in america who would glady write insults on drone rockets (for that matter in every country, but america is the biggest when it comes to international wars).
JordanN
Banned
Nope. Canadian with Canada the only country I swear allegiance to.
I did have an Israeli friend though who lived through the rocket attacks during the 2006 war so I know some things that go down there. He was also around for the 2008-2009 war in Gaza.
Bad ones came to mind. Patriotism has been warped by crazies like this.
Point taken. Bad ones would be the more accurate statement.
These citizens are getting bombed almost every week for the last 14 years.
If your neighbor threw rocks at you once week for many years, you'd cheer the police coming to deal with him.
Not that it matters, but those pics are from 2006.
Incidentally, the operation has caused traffic from work to lessen significantly it seems, so at least it's not all bad! Plus it makes people talk about the world cup less.
Random_Guy
Member
Kadayi
Banned
You got any figures on the number of israeli's killed as a direct result of rocket fire over the last 14 years? How about the number of Palestinians killed by the IDF over the same period?
Where the princely man abides, the weak left hand is in honour. But he who uses weapons honours the stronger right. Weapons are instruments of ill omen; they are not the instruments of the princely man, who uses them only when he needs must. Peace and tranquillity are what he prizes. When he conquers, he is not elate. To be elate were to rejoice in the slaughter of human beings. And he who rejoices in the slaughter of human beings is not fit to work his will in the Empire.
- Lao Tzu
I get that the ordinary citizen isn't at fault for what the state Israel does, but Israel think it's a smart idea to let it's citizen publicy watch and celebrate this? They're firing at civilists from whom the most have most likely nothing to do with the attacks on Israel, mind you.
In your analogy a few kids from different families threw the rocks and the police just randomly sacks some familys.
Discotheque
Banned
yet in this case the police decided to round up everybody in the neighborhood and started beating them with clubs. hoping one of them was the rock-throwing perp....
All those hoodlums from across the river are the same anyways, aye.
Liljagare
Member
I so wish there was a reset button for humanity, it's just not the middle east, we've been acting like donkeys towards each other for, well, way too long.
It's always interesting to read about older history, Christopher Colon, Lawrence of Arabia, Churchill, Stalin, moustache guy and the boys, but when you're experiencing it right here, right now, it's different. Humanity is wierd and too often just plain evil.
It's always interesting to read about older history, Christopher Colon, Lawrence of Arabia, Churchill, Stalin, moustache guy and the boys, but when you're experiencing it right here, right now, it's different. Humanity is wierd and too often just plain evil.
JordanN
Banned
One more thing before I leave: no one in war actually "bombs" a civilian. War hasn't been like that since maybe WW2? And that was total war (i.e Japan trained its civilians to fight back in case the islands got invaded).
We have Smart bombs now that do target specific infrastructure.
This is not denying civilians do die in war. But I do find it really annoying when a country defends itself, it means "they're firing at civilians" to some. Soldiers are given maps of areas with certain objectives. Killing civilians is not one of them.
"Why the high civilian deaths?" Remember who they're at war with. Hamas, Hezbollah and other guerrilla are not professional military force. They blend in with the civilian population and even take refuge in civilian compounds (a violation of international law).
It's a shitty situation all around but professional militaries like Israel or the U.S have strict codes that do try to preserve human life while having to deal with terrorists.
We have Smart bombs now that do target specific infrastructure.
This is not denying civilians do die in war. But I do find it really annoying when a country defends itself, it means "they're firing at civilians" to some. Soldiers are given maps of areas with certain objectives. Killing civilians is not one of them.
"Why the high civilian deaths?" Remember who they're at war with. Hamas, Hezbollah and other guerrilla are not professional military force. They blend in with the civilian population and even take refuge in civilian compounds (a violation of international law).
It's a shitty situation all around but professional militaries like Israel or the U.S have strict codes that do try to preserve human life while having to deal with terrorists.
I don't know why that would help. Some people try to deny it, but humanity is way more cilized than in the past. Think the cavemen where peace loving folk free from harm? Think the dark age where nice?
We don't have to reset, we have to reform and develop further.
Except when they're bombing funerals from people they bombed before, because these people tried to help the people that were bombed in the first place.
theignoramus
Member
edit:so here's the NYT article on that attack on the Gaza beachside cafe:
terribleNYT said:
phalestine
aka iby.h
Seriously, why do people ignore the core issues at hand? the rocks, the rockets these are all symptoms. btw, I cant believe you are actually defending that.
And the connection is? It's okay to fire rockets at civilians as long the other side has more casualties?
Ypu know what? I'm not gonna argue with you, you don't really care about how many Israelis got killed. You don't really care on how we live our lives here.
This operation will never be justified for you. Even if thousands of Israelis got killed, you'd still blame it on the settlements or human rights.
I guess one man's terrorist is truly another man's freedom fighter.
I guess you have to live here to in order to grasp the reality of the situation.
The Hamas hides rockets under schools, hospitals and apartment buildings.
When we want to take out an ammo storage which is stashed among civilians we give them a warning to leave the location.
When they are not firing at us they are smuggling weapons with money other nations have them to help the Palestinians citizens. Hundreds of millions were donated. It didn't reach the general population it was used for weapons.
If someone wants to discuss this whole situation but wants to listen in return, I will be happy to do so.
Shabbat Shalom.
What weapon are u talking about? and Do u want them to send the rocket in the middle of nowhere so they can get hunt easily?
theignoramus
Member
there was no warning given to the people blown up at the Fun Time Beach Cafe
BrokenEchelon
Banned
I very much like the way he wrapped that up.
At some point, there has to come a time when it doesn't matter who started it, any more.
My lazy man's (read; almost completely ignorant of the historical facts) understanding: The Israelis will always be Zionist infidel pigs, because 100 years ago their ancestors took some land or something, or were granted land, to the objection of Palestine. Shitty deal. But it happened. And it was done by people long dead and gone. It's now no one's fault. There is no one to blame or hold accountable. It is what it is. Murdering and hating on today's Israelis doesn't justify or redeem any past injustice - legitimate or perceived - by Palestine.
What I see now is Hamas firing rockets into Israel in the name of "the past" and Israel responding with 5x the missiles. I see Hamas putting civilians in harms way to try and foster outrage that Israel is killing Palestinian children .. when Hamas are the one engineering it. Guaranteeing it.
My view: The historical facts don't matter anymore. Palestine, Israel have to let go of the past and find a way to coexist. It doesn't matter anymore who was wrong, or who took what from who. Nothing is going back to the way it was before all this started. Hamas stops t heir shit, Israel will stop their shit.
A true leader from Palestine needs to arise with peace in his heart. A true leader from Israel must rise the same. Both need to posses the capacity to forgive. To reshape hearts and minds of their peoples. To stop the brainwashing. Stop teaching the hate. It is the only way.
My lazy man's (read; almost completely ignorant of the historical facts) understanding: The Israelis will always be Zionist infidel pigs, because 100 years ago their ancestors took some land or something, or were granted land, to the objection of Palestine. Shitty deal. But it happened. And it was done by people long dead and gone. It's now no one's fault. There is no one to blame or hold accountable. It is what it is. Murdering and hating on today's Israelis doesn't justify or redeem any past injustice - legitimate or perceived - by Palestine.
What I see now is Hamas firing rockets into Israel in the name of "the past" and Israel responding with 5x the missiles. I see Hamas putting civilians in harms way to try and foster outrage that Israel is killing Palestinian children .. when Hamas are the one engineering it. Guaranteeing it.
My view: The historical facts don't matter anymore. Palestine, Israel have to let go of the past and find a way to coexist. It doesn't matter anymore who was wrong, or who took what from who. Nothing is going back to the way it was before all this started. Hamas stops t heir shit, Israel will stop their shit.
A true leader from Palestine needs to arise with peace in his heart. A true leader from Israel must rise the same. Both need to posses the capacity to forgive. To reshape hearts and minds of their peoples. To stop the brainwashing. Stop teaching the hate. It is the only way.
I was just watching Al Jazeera and the palestinaian death toll is 100 with 660 injured while the Israeli death toll is zero with 8 injured. Many of those 100 are civilians. Its sickening, Israel doesn't want to absorb all of the gaza strip or the west bank because then in their view Israel would be at risk demographically. Instead they will use the conflict to keep building illegal settlements to steal all the arable land from the palestinians and dividing them.
Its a very clever and sinister tactic by Israel, keep the conflict going so they have reasons to destroy infrastructure, demoralise and radicalise the palestinians and transfer their own population in .A two state solution is looking very unlikely if settlers continue to expand as they won't be enough to give the palestinians a state. I feel for the ordinary decent Israeli citizens who abhor what their government is doing.
Its a very clever and sinister tactic by Israel, keep the conflict going so they have reasons to destroy infrastructure, demoralise and radicalise the palestinians and transfer their own population in .A two state solution is looking very unlikely if settlers continue to expand as they won't be enough to give the palestinians a state. I feel for the ordinary decent Israeli citizens who abhor what their government is doing.
phalestine
aka iby.h
Can you clarify what you meant by the bolded?
Kenshin001
Member
Do the Palestinians have bomb shelters like the Israelis? Just wondering because standing on the roof seems a kind of risky strategy.
Partial Gamification
Banned
That point is now.
Artificial Arable Valleys.
Add desalinization plants, solar arrays, wind turbines, and maybe evaporation pools for salt to increase humidity on the windward side, extending into Mediterranean.
Solar forge to make glass bricks that are inter-lockable and build "the City of Glass Houses:" we don't throw stones. A nice medina design to channel air currents and avoid the grid design. Don't all the religions have that "beat your swords into ploughshares" line or some variant?
Hyperactivity
Banned
Missing some context there aren't we?
The West Bank has been peaceful with Israel for quite some time now, and they haven't gotten shit for it.
If Israel could show why peace is a good idea for the Palestineans, then they may very well stop. Until then, peace gets them nothing, while violence is just about the only way they ever get international attention
Don't agree with the violence but I can understand it, peace isn't getting the West Bank anywhere, and Gaza can see this for itself
Of course they don't. They barely have enough building materials to build schools and hospitals.
Kenshin001
Member
What does violence get the Palestinians? Violence just gets them disproportionally killed. Maybe that is why peace is a good idea. International attention has done them little good.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Neither gets them anywhere, and that builds up aggression and frustration
I really like your post.
If Hamas stop attacking Israel, maybe they wouldn't be all up in arms when Israel successfully strike back.
To me this is just so basic, and I know the whole situation is extremely complex. But just stop attacking the enemy and baiting their predictable military response!
Yeah. Good thing they don't land on cafes full of people watching the world cup. Oh wait, they did. At least most of the dead were terrorists, right? Oh wait, half of the dead were women and children.
Jag
Member
The West Bank is not getting bombed, having their infrastructure destroyed and people killed AND the 3 murdered Israeli kids were captured in the West Bank. The peace process may have ground to a halt, but Hamas rocket attacks aren't going to solve anything either.
Kenshin001
Member
They built 150 tunnels. Can't be that hard to build a few shelters.
archnemesis
Member
It was reported this morning that two rockets were fired from Lebanon and that Israel fired back.
Edit: Here is one source, http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/11/world/meast/mideast-tensions/
You find it annoying that people say they are killing civilians? 100 casualties so far of which mostly civilians and you find it annoying. Do you really think they give a shit about the palestinian people? These smart bombs are still getting fired at public places.
MisterFalcon
Member
Public places is where Hamas stores and fires their rockets from
So how dose Israel worn the ppl about the attack?
here is video of one of the attack in Gaza
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwe5vJ7rGNg
in the begging u can see a small explosion they say it's warning rocket,,,,
here is video of one of the attack in Gaza
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwe5vJ7rGNg
in the begging u can see a small explosion they say it's warning rocket,,,,
Did the bold really happen?
I find it hard to believe two people could have grew up in the same house, and joined two different sides in such a fundamentally moral thing as the US civil war.
Kadayi
Banned
I ordered numbers. What is this shit? This isn't amateur hour at the palladium. Lets hear the numbers.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Friend mentioned this.
I have no problem targeting rocket launches and high profile targets who are planning them. But rocket attacks can't be used as an excuse to attack whatever you want in Gaza. There is a disconnect I can't support. Israel has a right to defend itself, that doesn't mean if attacked attack everything you don't like. It means protect yourself from danger (Rocket attacks). I don't for a minute think israel wants to kill those people but you err caution. I don't see how this attack could be to stop rockets unless there were rockets there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_against_brother
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