TheRealTalker
Banned
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Breaking: Israel launches Operation Protective Edge against Hamas in Gaza
- Thread starter RustyNails
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RustyNails
Member
I doubt anyone is saying IDF is engaging in genocide. If anyone is saying that then they arr wrong. What they are saying is IDF is not a beacon of truth and upholder of civilian life and justice as you are making them out to be. IDF engages in ruthless warfare. It will harm civilians if it achieves the mission objective. It will level civilian homes and infrastructure as a means of intimidation and fear. Look up Dahiya doctrine.
I rest my case.
phalestine
aka iby.h
Click on it, it'll say.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Light color is under 18, darker color is over 18, pink female, blue male.
Your excuse is that they're bad at genocide?
JordanN
Banned
Sorry but this is not related to Gaza/IDF.
I already pointed out the IDF isn't perfect, so what was the problem?
I don't believe they are committing any genocide.
Thanks. I don't think the annotation is working on my computer, but I see the pattern.
Great article and really shows how Israel is just royally screwing this up.
sindbadthesailor
Member
Yup. It's beyond asinine.
Yes, heaven forbid the US stops enriching and enabling an apartheid state. Without the billions the US sends annually, Israel might only be able to kill some multiple dozens of innocents, instead of hundreds and thousands. And that would be a shame, wouldn't it?
Brilliant logic. Everyone should be lauding Israel for only killed over 250 Palestinians, a quarter of which were kids. Thank the bully for not inflicting as much harm as it could, because otherwise, it might do even more. But the Palestinians are the real monsters here.
Just some absolutely perverted logic and inhumane comments in this thread.
4/5 people killed in Gaza have been civilians. Great job IDF! How do they ever plan to discuss peace with these people when they collectively terrorize them all? An entire generation of kids has grown up seeing constant war and bombings from Israel. These are the same kids who will grow up and then be demanded to respect Israel and accept any shit peace deal they throw at them.
You brought it up
RustyNails
Member
I use "isn't perfect" to describe a slight mishap during an olympian athlete's butterfly flip landing during olympics, not to a military that levels civilian homes and people as long as its objectives are met. A little more outrage would be nice. "Appaling", "war crime" and "deplorable" are the terms I like to use.
JordanN
Banned
Nobody is lauding anything. Israel is at war, where innocents die sadly. That is an unavoidable reality of war (try and find a war where there has never been innocents caught in the crossfire).
Buzzati rejected my post that said
JordanN said:
So he has to believe the IDF is some demented force where everyone has to die for some reason, but the numbers for such a thing look highly contradicting and out of place. I already given enough evidence no genocide is happening.
It shouldn't be my turn anymore. Now it's everyone else who claims the opposite.
dripdripsplash
Member
With regards to looting of Palestinian homes by IDF soldiers:
http://972mag.com/in-search-of-teens-soldiers-looted-palestinian-homes/93892/
http://972mag.com/in-search-of-teens-soldiers-looted-palestinian-homes/93892/
hydragonwarrior
Member
The Israeli government is hoping for a bit of forgive and forget. Lol.
plasmawave
Banned
RustyNails
Member
Welcome to wonderland.
Freeman
Banned
Nothing absurd in what he said, saying that Israel purposely targets civilians is much more absurd an seems to be accepted in this thread.
shinobi602
Member
Ok someone help me with a couple things
What does isreal want?? Not with this fighting but what would make them not fight and just be a happy land.
And same question for Palestine?!
Why do they fight like this when there is such an uneven deck of cards?
Can someone also explain why there are settlements and who gives permission for them to happen?
I don't follow this much and want to form an opinion
What does isreal want?? Not with this fighting but what would make them not fight and just be a happy land.
And same question for Palestine?!
Why do they fight like this when there is such an uneven deck of cards?
Can someone also explain why there are settlements and who gives permission for them to happen?
I don't follow this much and want to form an opinion
Freeman
Banned
You are the only one brainwashed by american pro-Israel propaganda, apparently Gaf is coincidentally filled with enlightened people who are immune to propaganda, therefore you are wrong.
Hamas wants Israel to not exist, Israel wants to exist, Palestinians want a state of their own (most at least, I suppose).
No. I am saying the IDF simply does not have any presentiment about the consequences of violating international law. Neither you nor I know whether or not the IDF is targeting civilian areas for a military objective purpose. Civilian targeting is abhorrent and condemned, but it has many strategic purposes -- but we don't know if they are. What we do know is that the civilian death tole is staggering per the amount dead. We can look at this objectively and be disappointed with that.
Since the start of Israel’s “Operation Protective Edge,” Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and UN officials - the "go-to" interpreters of international law - have issued reports and statements condemning the IDF for violating international law. Those same organizations have stated that Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups firing rockets are committing war crimes because their shots are aimed at Israeli citizens.
Why do you think it is unbelievable that the Israeli army simply doesn't care about reducing civilian casualties? Do you believe there are no further steps to take to ensure the civilian death toll is minimized? Is it a question of capability? Why would Israel not want Hamas to capitulate as quick as possible? Why would they not want to retain dominance on the area with the most distinct show of force? Time and time again, Israel suffers no consequences for what the international community frowns upon.
shinobi602
Member
Wow
JordanN
Banned
I usually like debates and even enjoy listening to the opposite side so that's why I stick around.
But when one side goes on the silent treatment, it actually angers me. It's a form of disrespect where I must assume the person refuses to admit being wrong and tries to "laugh it off".
It also helps no one. A debate tries to get one side to believe the other. How do you convince someone by not replying at all?
TheRealTalker
Banned
or that we gave up, seeing as everything will just go full circle
Are you seriously giving that as an explanation for this whole mess?
RustyNails
Member
RustyNails
Member
I refuse to go on the merry go round again. Either we sticky responses on every page or just ignore.
Dude Abides
Banned
Israel wants the West Bank, or large portions thereof, and thus needs the Palestinians to go away and stop living there.
I certainly don't think that Israel is genocidal. They're just indifferent. Bombing campaigns are inherently indiscriminate, and always result in civilian deaths. If a nation engages with them, they are making the choice to cause innocents to die.
That is to say, I don't think Israel would kill civilians if they didn't think it would make them safer, but (as this conflict shows) they would trade dozens of Palestinian civilian lives in collateral damage for the increased safety that comes from destroying weapons or enemy leaders.
Hamas' logic is more darkly cynical (killing civilians is a direct means to advance their agenda), but that difference doesn't bring back the lives lost in conflict.
http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5902177/9-questions-about-the-israel-palestine-conflict-you-were-too
Here you go, this link was given to others with the same question.
JordanN
Banned
If the death toll was still the same with a country that had no buildings and all the civilians were spread out on the lawn, I would believe the Israeli Army wouldn't want to protect people.
But Gaza is dense and full of buildings. Hamas hides there. Hamas rarely comes out of there, and the times they do, it's through a tunnel. It's a stretch to say Israel can fight a war and miraculously end up with zero casualties.
If they did, every country would look up to Israel. They would want to know "how did those IDF guys manage to avoid hitting all those civilians when Hamas was even standing right next to them".
I agree, though it's hard not to when people give such ridiculous and shortsighted reasons as to what this whole conflict is about.
Maninthemirror
Banned
1967 borders. Even Hamas the terrorist organization they will lay down their arms if you back to the original 1967 borders, not the current faux settlements in between but one with Jeruselum as the shared capital.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh...palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915#!
Everyone but Israel and USA wants to go back to 1967 borders.
Absolutely disgusting. Yet Israel will still play the moral high ground here somehow.Wow
JordanN
Banned
The West Bank is much bigger than Gaza. Like a good 10x bigger.
If Israel can barely stop Hamas in Gaza, imagine what would happen in a territory much bigger.
Israel needs to withdraw their settlements but you can't deny they're right to feel paranoid.
That's why I think a Palestinian state needs to agree to a weapons ban. They need to prove to Israel "we're not going to break into your country every 3 months and bomb a bus".
How on Earth can you think Israel is "barely stopping" Hamas?
RustyNails
Member
PA is doing just that in westbank and is getting rewarded with more settlements.
Dude Abides
Banned
Putting aside the fact that any state worth its name has a right to self defense, it seems to me a Palestinian state would have equal justification to demand Israel ban its weapons, given Israel's history of belligerent armed conquest of others' territory.
JordanN
Banned
So why isn't the PA being bombed and hit by tank shells right now?
Edit: They couldn't stop them from being elected. Now they wont go away unless Israel personally removes them.
Maninthemirror
Banned
is that a defense now? Cant give you the original size because that means more room for terrorists? when the Hamas military wing itself is willing to lay down its arms at that point?
PA: no fighting. what does israel do? build more settlements.
Gaza: fighting, what does Israel do? Settlements and Bombings
Its a lose lose
JordanN
Banned
Hamas refuses to disarm other factions in Gaza. It doesn't matter what they say, they can always find an excuse/loophole.
It's a very serious issue if terrorism can't be contained. Now instead of lower Israel being targeted, all of Israel could be attacked. That also makes war even more deadly if they have to invade 2 landmasses (and the West Bank is far bigger. There would be a lot more traps Israeli soldiers to step on).
Maninthemirror
Banned
So you are conceding Israel can't give land as much as 1967 border because there will be more room for Hamas to operate?
JordanN
Banned
They need to not make the same mistake in 2005, where a terrorist organization can rise to power and build up a stockpile of weapons living beside them.
Otherwise, Israel has no reason (outside of security) to hold onto the West Bank.
Hyperactivity
Banned
If the Palestineans were given their demands and organizations like Hamas continue, wouldn't they weaken due to popular support for them drastically decreasing in that situation and even a portion of these organizations even splitting off and stopping these activities? Because these sorts f bombing and air strikes and ground invasions make it such that you have generations of adults and children living and growing up in an environment where ISrael = the guys who killed our family, just breeding even more radicalization
Hamas has even said in regards to the blockade for international control over things getting n and out of Gaza iirc
Don't think anyone is saying this, most are saying that they doubt the IDF really cares one way or the other
Would you be willing to attribute AT LEAST a majority of these deaths to human shields and living in areas where rockets are being fired from?
Because I'm getting the sense from those making this argument that those two reasons are behind each and every single civilian casualty in this conflict
So annex them and give them full rights as Israeli citizens. You can't just hold hostage millions of people, that's bullshit.
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