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Bungie Team being spun off into a new PlayStation Studio

Nope!! Let the majority of them go. I’m thinking the lgbtq+ herd is finally thinning. Canceling people and forced “inclusion”, we need to kill this thing now, before it kills the video game industry. We need a full reset of the gaming industry like Terminator 3 🤷‍♂️
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
It really is pathetic. Remember when we got all of the following exclusives in a single generation:
  • Demon's Souls
  • Tokyo Jungle
  • God of War III
  • God of War Ascension
  • Killzone 2 - 3
  • Uncharted 1-3
  • TLoU
  • MAG
  • Heavenly Sword
  • LittleBigPlanet 1-2
  • Resistance 1-3
  • Infamous 1-2
  • 3D Dot Game Heroes
  • Echochrome
  • Lair
  • The Last Guy
  • LocoRoco
  • Noby Noby Boy
  • MGS4
  • 3 MotorStorms
  • PixelJunk Eden
  • Puppeteer
  • Warhawk
  • Starhawk
  • Siren: Blood Curse
  • 5 Ratchet & Clank games
  • Lumines Supernova
  • Drakengard 3
  • Hot Shots 5
  • Twisted Metal
  • Gran Turismo 5 + 6
  • White Knight Chronicles I & II
  • Heavy Rain
  • SOCOM 4
I don't think we'll see this kind of variety, quality, and volume from Sony ever again.

They've basically said, "Fuck indies and AA" and closed some of their best studios (like Japan Studio) to instead work on a handful of AAA games that may or may not end up massive flops (like Concord). The decline is embarrassing.
That generation was insane. 360 or PS3 didnt matter. Great games got sequels every 2-3 years. And that was the console gen which online gaming got standardized. No problem. Add that to the task list and the sequel will come out soon.
 

Hypereides

Gold Member
It really is pathetic. Remember when we got all of the following exclusives in a single generation:
  • Demon's Souls
  • Tokyo Jungle
  • God of War III
  • God of War Ascension
  • Killzone 2 - 3
  • Uncharted 1-3
  • TLoU
  • MAG
  • Heavenly Sword
  • LittleBigPlanet 1-2
  • Resistance 1-3
  • Infamous 1-2
  • 3D Dot Game Heroes
  • Echochrome
  • Lair
  • The Last Guy
  • LocoRoco
  • Noby Noby Boy
  • MGS4
  • 3 MotorStorms
  • PixelJunk Eden
  • Puppeteer
  • Warhawk
  • Starhawk
  • Siren: Blood Curse
  • 5 Ratchet & Clank games
  • Lumines Supernova
  • Drakengard 3
  • Hot Shots 5
  • Twisted Metal
  • Gran Turismo 5 + 6
  • White Knight Chronicles I & II
  • Heavy Rain
  • SOCOM 4
I don't think we'll see this kind of variety, quality, and volume from Sony ever again.

They've basically said, "Fuck indies and AA" and closed some of their best studios (like Japan Studio) to instead work on a handful of AAA games that may or may not end up massive flops (like Concord). The decline is embarrassing.
*And Folklore
That list....We didnt know how good we had it back then...
Sad Cat GIF
Agreed. As a Sony fan, its a hard watching what they've done to themselves. Some of those games were also way, way ahead of their time.

Its sad we don't see much of that same calibre anymore, so its a nice surprise when something like Astrobot pops up. Management plus some of the studio heads seem to be more interested in relying on the "same old" stale gameplay ideas rather than something new (which doesn't promote some statement) and inventive gimmick.
 
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clarky

Gold Member
Bungie also said they keep 850 people working on the Destiny and Marathon IPs. This is more than enough than to work on Marathon, Destiny 2 updates, Destiny 3 and one or two games more.


This thinking is exactly why they are in as much shit as they are. They couldnt fund the development of 3 AAA games at once.

What makes you think they can do more with less?
 

Fabieter

Member
More than half of the games listed here sold like shit including Japan Studio games.

There are less games released since the PS4 generation. But the games sold more units and make more revenue/profit.

As an example, Uncharted 4 has sold more units than the first 3 games on PS3, the same can be said about GOW 2018 compared to the PS2-PS3 games.

If you don't own stocks than it doesn't matter how profitable a game is. There was alot more variety in the ps3 days for sure which is a plus.
 

Majukun

Member
Now sony's plan makes more sense.

buy the stufdio but say they mantain their independence because yada-yada so that the fans don't react negatively like they do with MS

since you already know they are financially on the way down, just wait for them to finish the last project and go down

ansorb the assets and workforce in your studios (and likely keep ownership of their franchises for future use)

well played
 

Angry_Megalodon

Gold Member
They will be relegated to "support studio" before vanishing into thin air. We will get the news through the layoff rants on Twitter.
 

yurinka

Member
This thinking is exactly why they are in as much shit as they are. They couldnt fund the development of 3 AAA games at once.
No, their issue was that they were spending more money than the one they were generating.

They shouldn't have hired the several hundred people they hired since the acquisition, they grew from 826 in January 2022 to around 1300 people (plus around 100 fired last year) a few days ago. Slide from May 2022:

image.png


They also started more projects that they could fund with current Destiny 2 revenue and had to reduce the amount of money being put on Destiny 2.

So to bring back them to profitability had to shut down some projects, fire many people or move them somewhere else and to reduce the size of the ongoing Destiny 2 content, as they did.

Totoki and Hermen are putting some order there that's all. Bungie maybe continue in the red (or maybe not, what they did could be enough to keep them profitable) but starting with the Marathon release they'll be fine financially.

What makes you think they can do more with less?
Knowing the size of many AAA games, which can be double checked in the game credits shown in places like Moby Games.

Most AAA teams release their games with a lead dev team of around 100-250 people, the rest are from support / outsourcing teams, which provide the main bulk of the team, and then there's a smaller part of publisher side.

During most of the production the dev team is smaller, and specially after launch in case of GaaS because don't do the big ass yearly expansions.

It's even way smaller the team you need to prototype/incubate/preproduce new ideas: less than a dozen people. Maybe a few dozen people to work on multiple projects.

850 people is way more than they what they need for Destiny 2, Marathon, a team prototyping/incubating a few games plus maybe another unannounced game (pretty likely Destiny based, since Destiny is their money cow and they mentioned that will focus on Destiny and Marathon) under development.
 
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Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
There are some clear steps that Sony and Bungie should be taking here and that can include Firewalk as well.

  • Marathon needs a single-player campaign
  • They should be working on Destiny 3

Getting a new multiplayer game off the ground is massively difficult these days. I think the days of releasing multiplayer only games are slowly going to come to an end. They're just entirely too risky. Campaigns at least get a multitude of people interested day 1.

You look at the success of GTA Online and Red Dead Online and they came off the strength of their single player components. Same with Elder Scrolls and Fallout.

CoD is mostly multiplayer, but they'll still put 2% effort towards a campaign.

I would delay Concord, retool it, create a campaign mode for it, and then make multiplayer F2P and create a campaign mode for Marathon in line with the original series.

All the while still creating Destiny 3.

Between Firewalk and Bungie, they have more than enough staff to do all 3 of these.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
No, their issue was that they were spending more money than the one they were generating.

They shouldn't have hired the several hundred people they hired since the acquisition, they grew from 826 in January 2022 to around 1300 people (plus around 100 fired last year) a few days ago. Slide from May 2022:


I think they thought they'd be riding high on the Marathon wagon by now and they'd have the cashflow to support that many people and be able to jump quickly into doing Destiny 3.

I think they hit a few snags along the way. Lightfall did REALLY poorly, which put them in a precarious situation where Final Shape had to be significantly better. I think this would have been "okay" for the most part except they were also getting really poor feedback on Marathon at the exact same time. Having to delay Marathon AND Final Shape at the same time meant having negligible cashflow for two years. The success of Final Shape couldn't make up for Lightfall AND the Final Shape delay AND the Marathon delay.

Let me put things in a pretty crude fashion.


Let's say that I expect Lightfall to make me 200 million dollars in 2023 in the same year, I'm expecting to drop Final Shape, and I'm expecting it to make 300 million dollars. Followed by Marathon in 2024, which I expect to make me 750 million to a billion dollars.

Before even getting into costs, let's focus on what reality could have looked like.

Let's say Lightfall made 100 million dollars and I have a delay of Final Shape.

I went from expecting to make 500 million dollars in 2023 to making 100 million dollars. Without accounting for costs, I still have a deficit of 400 million dollars and I already know Marathon is going to be delayed. Hence the first Bungie layoffs.

So let's look at 2024. Let's say Final Shape does exactly as well as I had hoped. I make 300 million dollars. I still have a deficit of 450 million dollars from Marathon.

Between 2023 and 2024, I have a balance deficit of 850 million dollars... that's nearly a billion dollars less than I thought I'd be at.

Now imagine I expected out of that 850 million dollars an operating profit of 400 million dollars. That means I'm at least 450 million dollars in the red for 2023 and 2024...

So what did they do? They said they have to cut payroll.

  • Have Sony publish Marathon rather than publish internally
    • Anyone involved in publishing is laid off, same with other functions like HR, community management, e.t.c.
      • This is 220 employees, either low performing employees, non crucial staff, or can't find new homes
  • Anyone not directly involved with day to day Destiny 2 stuff or Marathon is either out or moved to SIE
    • These employees have talent and can still help SIE, particularly at Firewalk and Sucker Punch, Ghost of Tsushima 2 in particular needs a lot of help
      • 155 people across 2 studios would probably be too much, especially Firewalk, given they're already in a precarious place, but they could absolutely use talent from Bungie to maybe make Concord a better game, if you think 50-50-55, 50 people to firewall, 55 to sucker punch, and 50 remote (especially to help work on Haven's game and Blundell's new internal studio)
        • Sucker Punch can absorb some employees due to the needs of Ghost 2 and the success of their PC release.
  • Anyone working on this other game i.e. not Destiny 2 non Marathon game is moved to a new SIE studio
    • Sony gives them a one time opportunity to make a profitable game and remain open as their own studio and they're immediately off Bungie's payroll
 

Killjoy-NL

Member
Did you buy and play both Knack 1 and Knack 2? People often say they love Japan Studio but never supported them. Knack was their main franchise at their time of closure.
That goes for all the closed studios.

All the studios Sony closed underperformed and were on a decline.
And now suddenly people act like all those games were system-selling classics.

And now after those studios closed, Sony doesn't have studios to create those games and people complain about how Sony is messing up somehow.
(Ignoring that they ran Xbox into the ground and pretty much always have been market-leader in the console space since they came into play, because they know how to run their business)
 
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simpatico

Gold Member
It really is pathetic. Remember when we got all of the following exclusives in a single generation:
  • Demon's Souls
  • Tokyo Jungle
  • God of War III
  • God of War Ascension
  • Killzone 2 - 3
  • Uncharted 1-3
  • TLoU
  • MAG
  • Heavenly Sword
  • LittleBigPlanet 1-2
  • Resistance 1-3
  • Infamous 1-2
  • 3D Dot Game Heroes
  • Echochrome
  • Lair
  • The Last Guy
  • LocoRoco
  • Noby Noby Boy
  • MGS4
  • 3 MotorStorms
  • PixelJunk Eden
  • Puppeteer
  • Warhawk
  • Starhawk
  • Siren: Blood Curse
  • 5 Ratchet & Clank games
  • Lumines Supernova
  • Drakengard 3
  • Hot Shots 5
  • Twisted Metal
  • Gran Turismo 5 + 6
  • White Knight Chronicles I & II
  • Heavy Rain
  • SOCOM 4
I don't think we'll see this kind of variety, quality, and volume from Sony ever again.

They've basically said, "Fuck indies and AA" and closed some of their best studios (like Japan Studio) to instead work on a handful of AAA games that may or may not end up massive flops (like Concord). The decline is embarrassing.
And it was considered a down generation for Sony.
 
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