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[daveonezero]

Well, the game is a sequel... and built on an already existing game/engine. And yet, still took 6 years to make.

I like what they have done, but at the same time... I also find it disturbing as to what it really means for the rest of the industry. Especially those trying to replicate feats like this at fidelity standards that Nintendo doesn't even consider.

I don't want to be that guy... but do you guys think Nintendo would have been able to pull off the same feat if TOTK looked like say... HZFW? Not saying their game needs to look like that, just saying that devs are faced with different challenges.

And clearly one makes a better game while the other looks nice but will be forgotten by the time a new game comes out.

 

[Kataploom]

I can 110% guarantee that if Sony and MS were focusing on low res assets, reused assets 560/900p, sub@30fps most o their games wouldnt take 6 years to be done and u would get a first party game every two years at Max.

For the price of a nextgen ( 70 USD ) Zelda delivers nothing new aside from their DIY gameplay its a 7/10 game at best.

Lol so much wrong in this post, starting by the fact that using raw high quality assets would be so much better for devs time, budgets, quality etc, that's why UE5 Nanite is such a big deal.

But following your logic, a game with Zelda TOTK graphics on switch is just equally or more demanding to create, considering the rest of the gameplay elements, than it would be on PS5, just because they can brute force really without having to optimize as much.

And God damn, nothing new? Game barely plays like BOTW, you can literally bypass most or all BOTW play style by using the several new systems as I'm doing, if it wasn't built it on top of BOTW they'd still have a full fledge new AAA game to the point that play style feels redundant sometimes... Like why using horses and climbing to get to a shrine at the distance if you can catch a tower or falling rock, fly to the sky and cut all or most of the path? Why would you climb most of the time if you can use ascend skill? And so on and so forth...

It's clear who hasn't played it by just reading at those comments lol

 

[Shifty1897]

At the same time though, people were complaining about how this game took six years to make, but that's the price of an open world physics sandbox with zero bugs. Zelda and Final Fantasy spending at least a year after the game is basically complete just to polish and bugfix means we're moving in the right direction.

 

[hemo memo]

Well, the game is a sequel... and built on an already existing game/engine.

This is every sequel in the history of sequels

And yet, still took 6 years to make.

What other game this big and complex and polished that released in a shorter time? They could’ve shipped this 3 years early broken and half the content and it would fit perfectly in the AAA state of this industry. They didn’t. They care about quality and they are rewarded for it both critically and commercially.

 

[LakeOf9]

Well, the game is a sequel... and built on an already existing game/engine. And yet, still took 6 years to make.

I like what they have done, but at the same time... I also find it disturbing as to what it really means for the rest of the industry. Especially those trying to replicate feats like this at fidelity standards that Nintendo doesn't even consider.

I don't want to be that guy... but do you guys think Nintendo would have been able to pull off the same feat if TOTK looked like say... HZFW? Not saying their game needs to look like that, just saying that devs are faced with different challenges.

The choice to chase that level of fidelity, along with the challenges that it poses, is one developers consciously make. Japanese developers like Nintendo, Atlus, From are showing us that even if you dont chase top end graphics your games can still be considered the best in the industry (and I mean this literally, all three in the last three years have put out 95+ rated games, which are scores no western dev other than Rockstar manages)

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

You sure have a lot of time for polish on your hands when you build textures in 256x256 pixels.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

And clearly one makes a better game while the other looks nice but will be forgotten by the time a new game comes out.

That's not the point though.

We are talking about the state the game was in. Not what kinda game or what game you prefer. I am just saying it as it is. Nt knocking on Nintendo or the game. I have said in another thread that one of my personally most visually impressive games is a little devil inside.

Just saying that technically, what they have done here isn't worthy of the kinda praise they are getting... when you consider a lot of things. eg.

1. The engine they are using for this game, as at the time of release, and the word it's based in is an almost 13-year-old engine and world. While BOTW was released in 2017, development for that game started as far back as 2011.
2. This game is a direct sequel, over 60% of what's gone into it can be called a direct copy and paste. They built a word on top and below what they had already. And even at that...it still took them 6 years to make it.
3. Mechanically, the game is impressive and no one is putting that to question but lets not pretend that technically this game is pushing any boundaries or doing the kinda stuff that the devs that make games for the HD consoles are doing. A dev making a game like HZFW, or Cybrpunk...etc, has to deal with significantly more technical issues than Nintendo ever needs to worry about.
4. And seriously, if any of these HD consoles, no matter how good their game is, have sections where its running at as low as 17fps.... they would get crucified.

All I am saying is while I am loving the game, I just bought it two days ago... I am not on this bandwagon of heaping praise on it that I dont feel it deserves. lets admire it for what it is, I think its a disservice to what other devs are doing and trying to accomplish to use what Nintendo has done here as some sort of reference by which thy should be measured.

 

[adamsapple]

Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom was basically finished before its year-long delay

Nintendo pushed the game back just to polish it

www.gamesradar.com

They had the luxury of sitting on a completed game for 1 year and polish the shit out of it as best as they could on the respective hardware.

 

[Azelover]

I thought it was serious at first. Very well written. I salute you Captain Toad

 

[Kataploom]

So again, big fan of Nintendo games, but this sucks for me as a customer and not something I like personally. Even though I understand the business reasons and that they have more or less earned it at this point

Nobody likes paying more

That's something some don't get no matter what, one does not defend Nintendo pricing politics, we just comprehend them, same for From Software, Square Enix, Capcom, etc. That won't discount so frequently their flagship titles. But that's for another thread.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Seriously. This shit is ridiculous. This game does not live up to the standards set by other modern AAA games at launch. And, honestly, I don't hear anyone talking about it.

Tears of the Kingdom was one of the most anticipated video games ever released. It was expected to live up to and surpass its predecessor, which is among the very few highest rated games of all time.

This game launched on now ancient hardware and attempted to create possibly the most unbounded open-world ever. The player is given near limitless freedom to go anywhere, circumvent "expected" paths.

Basically, the player is dared to break the game at every opportunity. And what's the result? As a famous man once said, but couldn't himself ever back it up, "it just works".

In seriousness, the fact that this game doesn't break regardless of how many tools the player is given to do so, is honestly amazing. Games with a tenth of the freedom release with exponentially more issues, while running on significant hardware.

Nintendo has completely taken the excuse away that these games are just expected to be buggy because they are just so big and have so much freedom. No game on this scale has ever had more of an excuse to expect the player to break it, but Tears of the Kingdom is polished to what feels like an impossible level compared to the rest of the industry.

You're making everyone else look incompetent, Nintendo. Stop it. It's rude.

I feel like I see this being discussed in most gaming communities.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

The choice to chase that level of fidelity, along with the challenges that it poses, is one developers consciously make. Japanese developers like Nintendo, Atlus, From are showing us that even if you dont chase top end graphics your games can still be considered the best in the industry (and I mean this literally, all three in the last three years have put out 95+ rated games, which are scores no western dev other than Rockstar manages)

I am sorry... Elden Ring... has its own issues too. It's got shoddy performance. And even at that, I still find what they have done more technically impressive than whatever Nintendo is doing. That's not to say that its gameplay or game loop is as good as what you would find in your typical Nintendo game. But technically, their game alone, and the number of platforms they are making it for... is significantly more complex than what Nintendo has had to deal with here.

And I find this narrative of saying the fidelity devs are chasing is on them as a way just moving the posts.

Nintendo is also making a game the highest possible fidelity they can make on their hardware. They are just lucky that their hardware is so limited that that's a low bar to scale. But lets not talk as if every single person wouldn't prefer a Zeda game that had fidelity that would be as good or better than say HZFW if Nintendo had the hardware to run it.

All I am saying is that if they were making games of that fidelity and added technical complexity... well...it would probably take them 12 years to make this sequel, not 6.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

This is every sequel in the history of sequels

No..It is not.

What other game this big and complex and polished that released in a shorter time? They could’ve shipped this 3 years early broken and half the content and it would fit perfectly in the AAA state of this industry. They didn’t. They care about quality and they are rewarded for it both critically and commercially.

I could answer this... but I am going to bow out of this conversation.I can already see that you (and I am sure there will be others) are taking what I am saying as an attack n Nintendo and this game ( which mind ou I just fucking paid $70 for).

But in truth, I am not attacking them...just pointing something out. And look, every single time you use that ultra hand, the games framerate tanks. A consistent framerate isn't part of the quality of a game? If some other dev did that would they be given the kinda pass Nintendo seems to be getting?

 

[BlackTron]

I can 110% guarantee that if Sony and MS were focusing on low res assets, reused assets 560/900p, sub@30fps most o their games wouldnt take 6 years to be done and u would get a first party game every two years at Max.

For the price of a nextgen ( 70 USD ) Zelda delivers nothing new aside from their DIY gameplay its a 7/10 game at best.

Sorry but people who actually played the game are trying to have a discussion

 

[hemo memo]

But in truth, I am not attacking them...just pointing something out. And look, every single time you use that ultra hand, the games framerate tanks. A consistent framerate isn't part of the quality of a game? If some other dev did that would they be given the kinda pass Nintendo seems to be getting?

Digital Foundry:

a game that holds very closely to its 30fps target. The majority of my entire run of capture managed to maintain a solid 30 frames per second in most instances which, for the Switch running a game this vast and emergent, is impressive.

They do this for a living.

 

[Krathoon]

Nintendo developers are really the masters of the industry. No one really tops Nintendo except for maybe From Software.

 

[Captain Toad]

No only they didn't delay their game and instead push the release date forward meanwhile creating one the best DLC in JRPG and helping out in Zelda's development.

That's a little different. Sometimes Nintendo finishes and sits on games. This one they planned to sit on longer, but with Splatoon 3 needing more time, they decided to swap the dates.

Rumor is Metroid Prime was ready a very long time before it released. I imagine Nintendo is sitting on several other finished games such as the Zelda Wii U remasters.

 

[Captain Toad]

Depending on what you care about, it exceeds those expectations by quite a big margin.

I get it though, graphics and shit, I play on PC because I don't want 30 fps in my games, they better fucking be Zelda, Xenoblade or something that big to me in order to accept 30 fps.

But you said something important, some were like "they invented nothing" in that other thread, but each of those systems just work better are more complex and work all together at the same time in this game and everything is essential for gameplay's core, there's not anything remotely close to that in the whole industry, and let alone virtually bugs free...

Let's see:
A "standard set by modern AAA games" of broken software at launch that maybe, perhaps, some day, becomes playable after months of patches, running on some of the most powerful machines the industry has to offer.
Or, a few frame drops here and there in a game running on old smartphone hardware.

You're right. Tears of the Kingdom certainly "does not live up to the standards set by other modern AAA games at launch".

You guys didn't get past the first paragraph?

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Digital Foundry:


They do this for a living.

You really should watch that video again... and also read what I said again.

I said every single time you use that ultra hand, performance tanks.I have seen it during my playthrough... and it was mentioned by DF too.

If you stopped for one second and realized I am not attacking the game that own and enjoy, this would have been a much better conversation.

I pay games on the PS5, PC and Switch. And I am sorry, but I have seen enough to know what is truly technically impressive and what isn't. Nintendo are masters at what they do, and they are making the most of the hardware they have.... but please, please and please... lets not be so obtuse as to compare what other devs are doing on higher-end hardware to this.

Just as an example... you see that link character model? Realize that it would take devs 10 times more resources and man-hours to make say Aloy in HZFW than to make a stylized low poly model like link in TOTK? Then extrapolate that into everything in that game. The grass, the trees, the NPCs, towns, weapons, armor, voice acting for NPCs...etc.

Its just not the same thing. Nintendo build games differently, they avoid doing what the HD devs do for a reason.

 

[farmerboy]

Best video game of all time, without a doubt

What is a video game?

 

[cireza]

Personally I find that Metroid Prime or Metroid Dread make a better use of the hardware. Free roaming 3D game with a super poor picture quality at 30fps is unbearable to me.

 

[brian0057]

You guys didn't get past the first paragraph?

 

[FunkMiller]

Nicely done OP.

 

[Sleepwalker]

I can 110% guarantee that if Sony and MS were focusing on low res assets, reused assets 560/900p, sub@30fps most o their games wouldnt take 6 years to be done and u would get a first party game every two years at Max.

For the price of a nextgen ( 70 USD ) Zelda delivers nothing new aside from their DIY gameplay its a 7/10 game at best.

 

[DeepEnigma]

As they should.

Keep doing what you do, Nintendo. Get everyone else to step up their game, not buy up the game when they fail.

 

[Marvel14]

Lokaum D+

 

[Codes 208]

Had me in the first half, ngl

 

[Draxon Gamer]

I feel people don't realize that the Switch hardware isn't that outdated given the size of worlds that were on weaker hardware. People are making it seem the Switch was an overclocked Gamecube when it's much more capable.

 

[Tams]

 

[jorgejjvr]

More 720-1080p/30fps games if it means we get this caliber of games.

The other consoles outputting 4k and 120fps and yet nothing comes close to this

 

[jorgejjvr]

Also how is this 16gb???? The next gen minimum is 70gigs nowadays

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Japan. Japanese companies and developers still care about polish, fun and quality while most other developers outside of Japan release anything and just don’t care. It’s been this way for a very long time and things are getting worst. I have a very strong feeling that FF16 won’t be a broken, buggy mess at launch.

Japan is carrying this industry these days. Thank goodness for Japanese studios. Yesterday was finally my "a ha" moment with TotK. My first dungeon and region was Rito. I don't want to spoil anything but great boss fight, interesting story, more "classic" Zelda compared to BotW which is what I had hoped for and then the change that occurs after you beat the boss was brilliant. That's just one region and I've barely explored it. I see now why the game took so long.

I have a couple small gripes with it such as the combat being too easy, just like BotW, but overall the game is head and shoulders better than anything I've played in a long time.

 

[Danjin44]

That's a little different. Sometimes Nintendo finishes and sits on games. This one they planned to sit on longer, but with Splatoon 3 needing more time, they decided to swap the dates.

Let me ask you how many games even have the luxury to move the release date forward? We see more games getting delayed rather than moving releases date forward.

 

[Josemayuste]

The game drops to 12fps quite often... and has plenty of decently long loading screens compared to what contemporary games on modern hardware has to offer

That's true, but it also manages tu pull a physics engine, interaction, encourages player curiosity like no other, and puts to shame not only Breath of the wild, which is a huge accomplishment that many games have tried to do, but 95% of games released to date, making any of those uninspired/uninteresting, all of it while looking generations older, gaming Industry as a whole should answer that question to itself.

 

[N30RYU]

I thank them for my unbreakable master sword hammer

 

[Deleted member 1159]

It’s GOAT tier shit and everyone recognizes. Preach.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

It's kind of ridiculous to compare TOTK to most other games. Nintendo spent 6 years perfecting the sequel. Most AAA sequels come out in 3.5-4 years after the original. From a financial standpoint, it's just not feasible for 95% of AAA studios to dedicate their limited resources for that length of time. And gamers would be pissed if every release from a studio took 6 years make. TOTK is not the norm for Nintendo studios. Nintendo can take that long because they know the game will sell 30+ million copies easily. Outside of party games(Mario Kart, Smash ect), Nintendo has been very disappointing this generation. TOTK is the only single player game that is a "must have" for the system. It's a fantastic game, with possibly the best exploration of any game I have ever played. Combat is still lacking tho

 

[DragonNCM]

Nintendo did imposible....a FUCKING GOTY on console worst then my cell phone.....
In тhе meantime developers at MS & Sony......

 

[Captain Toad]

Let me ask you how many games even have the he luxury to move the release date forward? We see more games getting delayed rather than moving releases date forward.

Pretty sure it's mostly just a Nintendo thing.

 

[Danjin44]

Pretty sure it's mostly just a Nintendo thing.

Sure but even then that’s not always case with all Nintendo games.

 

[Majukun]

I don't want to be that guy... but do you guys think Nintendo would have been able to pull off the same feat if TOTK looked like say... HZFW? Not saying their game needs to look like that, just saying that devs are faced with different challenges.

with a different and more powerful hardware? sure.

 

[BadBurger]

I think a lot of it has to do with how little care is given to QA / testing in US and European studios. Just look at how they pay and treat their testers. Nintendo on the other hand pays their testers a whopping 48% greater average salary than the wider industry, and by accounts I've heard don't subject their testers to ridiculous and grueling schedules.

 

[SegaManAU]

This game is no joke.

Imagine any western dev finishing their game, and then saying "No, we can't release this. Let's delay it for a year and polish the game".

It would never happen. They would release the game and then proceed to drop 14 patches over the next 6 months to get the game some-what working.

Hats off to Nintendo. My GOTY for sure.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I think a lot of it has to do with how little care is given to QA / testing in US and European studios. Just look at how they pay and treat their testers. Nintendo on the other hand pays their testers a whopping 48% greater average salary than the wider industry, and by accounts I've heard don't subject their testers to ridiculous and grueling schedules.

This is the truth right here. So many games these days releasing with issues that I just can't believe made it in, because if the game was truly play-tested they'd have been flagged as core issues.

Western devs put no importance on plastering anymore which is absurd. Things like deadzone issues, severe input lag, broken HDR are so commonplace now. What's even more rediculous is a lot of these things just never get fixed.

These devs simply ignore our complaints too so long as they believe their bottom line won't be affected. This is why I have no love for the games media today because when do they ever even call these devs out?

While I've seen some Japanese studios guilty of this too (re4 remake deadzones), its western and european publishers/developers and have such a lack of integrity and respect for their fans to the point where they are outright running SCAMS on their customers in some cases!

In October '22, Warhammer Inquisitor MartyrIo Interactive released a "next gen upgrade" for a whopping $25 for existing owners. The game was of course completely busted with the worst screen tearing, awful fps, and extremely minimal improvement to graphics. What have those devs done? They released one patch (which didn't fix things) then they cut and ran from their duty to fix it! They've gotten away with it too thanks to Sony and MS making the redundant process so hard.

Io Interactive released Hitman 3 with broken HDR. Never fixed it. Just ignored people. Even tho Hitman 2016 and Hitman 2's HDR works they're OK with their latest game having a non functional HDR. Doesn't matter that the game was advertised with it.

Every single crpg that's come out in the last 3 years except for divinity 2 has been terribly optimized on console. Meanwhile the devs just hide behind the PC versions. No time or effort devoted to fixing for console. Pathfinder wrath of the righteous devs have been promising fixes for the abysmal textures for almost a year ...but the fixes don't come.

WRC Generations had major crashing issues and puddles that are bright white with no reflection-totally immersion breaking. Those devs also CUT and RUN a mere 2 months after launch to work on their next game. Europe is actually worse than the US.

But if you think the degrading integrity is relegated to just AA European studios guess again. Microsoft and 343 are guilty too. When Halo Reach was added to the MCC, it caused the Xb1x version's framerate to plummet as well as introduced stuttering. Did they try to fix it for Xbox one x owners? Nope- never fixed just ignored it. That's Microsoft and Halo we're talking about- if MS can't be bothered to fix their most iconic franchise for the people who bought their second Xbox One in the form of a $500 premium console then that's everything I need to know about the state of the industry.

 

[nush]

Best video game of all time, without a doubt

It's scientifically proven to be Street Fighter II.

 

[Captain Toad]

Sure but even then that’s always case with all Nintendo games.

That aren't called Pokémon.

 

[Danjin44]

That aren't called Pokémon.

Where is Metroid Prime 4?

 

[Brigandier]

I don't have a switch anymore I'm dying to play this game and Xeno 3 DLC

The game looks fantastic for the hardware it's running on.

Have to say I'm really looking forward to seeing what Nintendo Devs can produce with the new hardware.

 

[Ozzie666]

Nintendo understands the value in their tentpole franchises. Zelda has now become a juggernaut. It was never a top tier selling franchise, but now it is. They built it up and want to keep it relevant. This game is going to sell how many millions (20-30)? I believe BOTW sold nearly 30 on a smaller install base but more legs. Nintendo can cut corners on tennis, golf, soccer etc. But not with their big guns. Nintendo still makes those AAA mistakes.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Nintendo understands the value in their tentpole franchises. Zelda has now become a juggernaut. It was never a top tier selling franchise, but now it is. They built it up and want to keep it relevant. This game is going to sell how many millions (20-30)? I believe BOTW sold nearly 30 on a smaller install base but more legs. Nintendo can cut corners on tennis, golf, soccer etc. But not with their big guns. Nintendo still makes those AAA mistakes.

Zelda was always a tentpole franchise