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Canada Poligaf - The Wrath of Harperland
- Thread starter DreamMachine
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gutter_trash
Banned
Half commie!
But still the least commie of everyone who has posted results so far. ;P
eBay Huckster
Member
I don't know about you guys, but I like basing my political-party support on whether they helped pass Very Important Bills 30-45 years ago and not whether they actually deserve my vote based on what they're doing today.
e: also the Bloc is this high up even with all my sovereignty-related answers basically being "eat a dick, pequistes"
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Yeah, if we use that reasoning, then we have to credit the Ontario PCs for legalizing same-sex marriage in Ontario in 2003. There are a lot of other progressive things the Liberals have done though.
Blegh. I think it was all those provincial rights questions. Also, there were no questions about carbon pricing. I'm all for pipelines so long as the companies pay for the pollution they cause; not a huge fan of the million and one regulations route.
Ah, yes. I also threw in pipeline and free trade support, so that's probably where much of my Con rating comes from as well.
matthewwhatever
Member
1) I love how somehow I've become an example of crazy partisanship in here.
2) Because Martin was such a spectacular failure as PM, I'm more inclined to give credit for his achievements as Finance Minister to Chretien. As Azih noted, they balanced the budget in the '90s on the backs of the provinces by drastically cutting the Canada Health and Social Transfers. Is there anything during Martin's time as PM to suggest that he would've been the one to make hard choices like that on his own? Even when he was seen as some kind of unstoppable juggernaut who was going to lead the Liberals to a record number of seats, there were still plenty of signs that he was far too wishy-washy, and that it was Chretien who was the stubborn one willing to do unpopular things.
3) And if we're talking about the real Liberal legacy from the Chretien-Martin years, I'd place way more emphasis on their reforms to political financing. Chretien banned corporate and union donations, implemented per-vote subsidies, shot down Harper's push for third-party election advertising (which Harper was very loudly in favour of while he was running a right-wing thinktank, to the point of taking it all the way to the SCC). He did that even though it substantially impacted his own party. Admittedly, part of his desire to do that may have been to screw over Martin, but still: gay marriage was probably going to happen regardless of who was in power, since it had fairly multipartisan support. I don't think the same could be said for the political finance changes.
I don't think it's free trade, because I checked that off as one of my most important criteria, and it still had me as sub-30% Conservative. I think it's mainly about whether you support pipelines.
gutter_trash
Banned
apparently Harper is backing out of the debates headed by the media consortium
takes his ball and goes home
takes his ball and goes home
He's never had any interest in appealing to a broad range of Canadians. His strategy has always been to get enough micro groups on board on top of his loyal core to earn a fake majority.
The question becomes is it even useful to have debates without the freaking PM attending? Why tear each other down while Harper tries to incrementally inch back up to aprrox 38 percent support?
Didn't this happen like a couple of months ago? Is there something new?
Er... Free national air time that people watch is pretty valuable when you're trying to get the message out. And about 60% of Canadians are looking to figure out which of the non-Harpers to vote for. Arguably, right now, an opposition-only debate is more valuable to more people than the 5-10% or so of voters who still think they might vote for Harper but aren't sure.
matthewwhatever
Member
The new thing is that the Broadcasters Consortium announced the dates for the official debates yesterday -- Oct. 7th and 8th. And they made it clear that they'd be happening with or without Harper.
Harper has to be the one to blink here, right? Giving his opponents 2 hours on prime time TV to talk about themselves and about why they deserve to replace him seems like it would be suicidal. I know CPC voters are pretty firmly attached to him, but this seems like it would be taking that for granted to a pretty extreme degree.
I think it's pretty boneheaded of Harper, but it's not like he hasn't surprised me with moves like this before working out much better than I expected.
I do think there has to be a point where refusing to appeal to anyone but your core base will hurt you. I hope this is it, but who can say.
I do think there has to be a point where refusing to appeal to anyone but your core base will hurt you. I hope this is it, but who can say.
gutter_trash
Banned
even if social media is now part of modern life, most people still expect debates on regular broadcast TV for all Canadians to have access.
Could work in his favour if Mulcair and Trudeau tear into each other for 2 hours
firehawk12
Subete no aware
If he doesn't show up, it becomes about exploiting the fact that he isn't there. Ultimately, all you want is a sound byte that you can turn into a gif/meme on youtube, and I'm sure at least Mulcair can come up with a line that shits on Harper for his absence that could catch on.
One of the opposition asks an empty seat what Harper plans to do for the country.
Announcer: Stephen Harper, never there when you need him.
Simon Belmont
Banned
I guess I could pretty much go either way
matthewwhatever
Member
There's the potential for that, sure, but I think it's more likely that it just solidifies support behind one party or the other. The "wrong track" numbers for Harper are pretty abysmal, and they've been trending that way for months now. In 2011, even if the Cons only got 40%, the number of people saying the country was headed in the right direction was higher. Now, every poll suggests people want change, so giving his two rivals a chance to blast him and look prime ministerial seems like a really dangerous move.
I mean, there is a school of thought that believes that just by having a President or a Prime Minister appear on the same stage as his/her rivals, they lower themselves and confer legitimacy on the others, so it's possible Harper believes that (along with your theory)...but that seems like an incredibly risky plan. Banking on both Trudeau and Mulcair to have horrible performances, where they both tear into each other to a point where they're both so degraded that they've disqualified themselves from being PM? Maybe it's just willful blindness on my part, since I never got what people liked about Harper in the first place, but I just can't imagine that.
I'm not saying I buy into that theory either, it's just something I've seen thrown around as justification.
I think it can only hurt him. Like a reverse EmptyObamaChair.
gutter_trash
Banned
BigJonsson
Member
Amazing how many ppl have NDP and Liberal so close together
According to this survey, we're all communists.
On what issues would you need to be divided on to separate those scores?
BigJonsson
Member
The Senate and C-51?
gutter_trash
Banned
fringe parties that have never had representation or have less than 2% of the national vote should not be included in such surveys
the Commies got 0.02% of the popular vote, they should not be included in this survey.
it should be strictly Con, Lib, NDP, Green outside of Quebec. The Bloc should be only allowed to included in the survey if you live in Quebec
the Commies got 0.02% of the popular vote, they should not be included in this survey.
it should be strictly Con, Lib, NDP, Green outside of Quebec. The Bloc should be only allowed to included in the survey if you live in Quebec
killer rin
Member
Since everyone is doing it
That said, I think I'm going to be voting NDP because I like alot of what they are saying.
More or less expected that it's going to come down to a battle of inches between the Liberals and NDP for me (with bills like C-51 potentially deciding).
Also, that feel when the Communist Party, Bloc Quebecois, Libertarian, and Christian Heritage party all beat out the majority government in power.
matthewwhatever
Member
Another Conservative MP who won't be running in the next election, though this time it won't be by choice: Tory minister Lynne Yelich loses bid to run in new Sask. riding
I don't know much about Saskatchewan politics or organizing, but that seems really embarrassing.
I don't know much about Saskatchewan politics or organizing, but that seems really embarrassing.
gutter_trash
Banned
Zombie James
Banned
http://www.pressprogress.ca/conservative_mp_says_bill_c51_reflects_the_teachings_of_jesus
Only a few short months to go.
Only a few short months to go.
Jesus.
matthewwhatever
Member
gutter_trash
Banned
«Le Paradis est bleu et l'enfer est rouge
-Mauric Duplessis
translation:
''paradise is blue, hell is red'' (because Union Nationale was blue and Liberals were Red) back in the 1940 and 1950s
Coldnoodle
Member
Oh my.
matthewwhatever
Member
Plus they've dropped their forecast for Canada's growth to just over 1% this year, and they've lowered interests rates again. I know that the Conservative base is pretty tied to Harper, but at some point, they have to abandon him, right?
On a mostly unrelated note, Wai Young now claims she "misspoke" when she said Jesus would've supported C-51 (and, much more disturbingly, that CSIS knew in advance about the Air India bombing). I didn't realize it, but apparently she also repeated Kory Teneycke's line about the media not reporting the truth, which suggests that that's now one of their talking points. So...I guess the Conservative plan for the election is 1) keep their base even more suspicious of the media's reporting on anything that's not complimentary towards the CPC, 2) and 2) hope that they're too terrified of a terrorist attack to notice the economy is in the tank?
On a mostly unrelated note, Wai Young now claims she "misspoke" when she said Jesus would've supported C-51 (and, much more disturbingly, that CSIS knew in advance about the Air India bombing). I didn't realize it, but apparently she also repeated Kory Teneycke's line about the media not reporting the truth, which suggests that that's now one of their talking points. So...I guess the Conservative plan for the election is 1) keep their base even more suspicious of the media's reporting on anything that's not complimentary towards the CPC, 2) and 2) hope that they're too terrified of a terrorist attack to notice the economy is in the tank?
A party's base doesn't abandon it, it just gets too despondent to bother going out to vote in large enough numbers and that might be what the Conservatives are staring at.
It seems like they've settled on 'stability' as their talking point which is a really hard line to sell when the electorate seems to be ready for a change. Throw in scandals and a plunging dollar and now a tanking economy and well... things seem pretty bad for the incumbents at this point.
Plus with the news of the Iran/US deal. Stephen Harper's "Fear the Muslims. All the Muslims" schtick seems out of touch rather than timely.
It seems like they've settled on 'stability' as their talking point which is a really hard line to sell when the electorate seems to be ready for a change. Throw in scandals and a plunging dollar and now a tanking economy and well... things seem pretty bad for the incumbents at this point.
Plus with the news of the Iran/US deal. Stephen Harper's "Fear the Muslims. All the Muslims" schtick seems out of touch rather than timely.
matthewwhatever
Member
The official PMO response is out and...well...
That sounds a little unhinged even by their standards, right? Like, it's not just me?
That sounds a little unhinged even by their standards, right? Like, it's not just me?
gutter_trash
Banned
http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/poll-tracker/2015/index.html
threehundereight's Éric Grenier's Poll Tracker
threehundereight's Éric Grenier's Poll Tracker
The official PMO response is out and...well...
That sounds a little unhinged even by their standards, right? Like, it's not just me?
That can't be real lol
Perspicacity
Banned
The official PMO response is out and...well...
That sounds a little unhinged even by their standards, right? Like, it's not just me?
They were actually going fine for the first sentence and then someone decided to grab the wheel and spin it hard
It's not just you.The official PMO response is out and...well...
That sounds a little unhinged even by their standards, right? Like, it's not just me?
The official PMO response is out and...well...
That sounds a little unhinged even by their standards, right? Like, it's not just me?
The Conservatives are like a caricature of politics.
"We have nothing to do with the poor economy. Oh and btw, Trudeau sucks and Mulcair sucks too"
That's essentially what their statement boils down to.
Also, why the hell did the Conservative support go up on the CBC poll tracker? Who are the morons still supporting them? I really don't understand at all.
Zombie James
Banned
The official PMO response is out and...well...
That sounds a little unhinged even by their standards, right? Like, it's not just me?
"The economy is bad but it's not our fault. Taxes are bad."
#CPCJesus
matthewwhatever
Member
#CPCJesus is so yesterday. Today it's #HarperBlamesTrudeau.
The assumption in politics has always been that people tune out over the summer and over Christmas. The Christmas one was disproved by Harper's first win in 2006 (some pollsters found that people's choices solidified after talking with their families at Christmas dinners), so it would be wonderfully ironic if the Conservatives end their time in office by proving people don't tune out in the summer, either.
gutter_trash
Banned
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