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Catalonia to split from Spain within 48 hours of secession vote

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T

Tiamant

Member
Napoleonthechimp said:
I care for the people. But revolutionaries, as in the people who lead movements, have done this and worse before. In an ideal world it'd be nice to think this wasn't the case, but we live in a world where Trump is in power.
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There are no revolutionaries here, only opportunists on both sides. However the difference must be made between riding the wave (Puigdemont and CiU skeletons) and creating the wave (Rajoy).

The pro-independence sentiment was bound to happen misshap after misshap from the Spanish government.

edit: by the way, WHERE THE FUCK IS PSOE!?
 
C

Chao

Member
jmga said:
The use of violence must be proportional, you cannot kill a kid for stealing a candy.
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Oh I know Spanish police loves to beat up people disproportionately. We all know that in Spain. I agree that this should not be happening and there’s no justification for people bleeding out of their ears just for voting, even if that vote has no validity.

But maybe those people should be a little mad at their own Catalonian government for tricking them into doing this. If anyone, it’s the government who should be receiving those -illegal- rubber bullets, not the voters
 
C

CrunchyB

Member
Holy shit, the Spanish government fucked this up big time. The optics are so bad, it wouldn't surprise me if the rest of the EU turns on them.

They should have just given their vote, but not accepted actual secession. Then just tie Catalonia up with talks, minor gifts and vague promises for the next decade.
 
J

jakonovski

Member
The way this should've gone is a vote takes place and then politicians spend years fighting over it. Not government spilling blood on the streets.
 
E

Ethelwulf

Member
Isn't the average yes catalan voter very different from the average yes brexit voter? My understanding is that most staff from universities for example would vote for a yes. I work at a well known university here in Barcelona and that is what I see all around. Not Spanish btw...

Edit: thread title needs to be updated.
 
N

Napoleonthechimp

Member
Par Score said:
The "violent reaction" is being perpetrated by the successors to that fascist regime, not the ones trying to break away from it.

The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree.
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Yes, I know. That's my point.

I never thought better of the Spanish government for that reason. Maybe the Catalonian government did, but regardless the shocking images will strengthen their cause across the world whether that was their intent or not.

The cynic in me thinks they knew that was a possibility and let it go right ahead. But I can see how people who have actual faith in the people who govern them might not think that way.
 
R

RangerX

Banned
It is the right of any community to govern itself. A vote should have been allowed by the Spanish government,then the pro Spanish in Catalonia wouldn't have boycotted and the vote would have legitimacy.
 
A

aygomyownroad

Member
If on twitter @thespainreport has got quite a good coverage of things happening.

Seems balanced reporting and that there is a lot of ballot stations which the police haven't gone to still open for voting.
 
E

Elfotografoalocado

Banned
This is such a shit show. PP and the proto-fascist riot police that we have are managing to give legitimacy to the most undemocratic poll in the history of this country since the referendums of the dictatorship.
Seriously, fuck PP. They created this.
 
J

JCH!

Member
Elfotografoalocado said:
This is such a shit show. PP and the proto-fascist riot police that we have are managing to give legitimacy to the most undemocratic poll in the history of this country since the referendums of the dictatorship.
Seriously, fuck PP. They created this.
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Yup.

PP just lost (or cemented the loss of) half of Catalunya.

daxy said:
So you can print your own ballot and you can cast your vote wherever you want? Is that right?
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Pretty much.
 
D

daxy

Member
JCH! said:
Pretty much.
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But are they registering who has already voted so that people can't cast their votes at every ballot station?

So far, the vote seems to have been more of symbolic nature that is taken seriously by certain people, and responded to far too excessively by law enforcement.
 
K

kiguel182

Member
What’s happening from part of the Spanish government is a disgrace.

Beating up people for voting should not be acceptable. Not in a democracy.

Even if the voting is illegal this is clearly not the way to handle things and the people aren’t at fault. They are mishandling this big time.
 
K

Kain

Member
PP was always a residual force in Catalunya, they know with this repression they will not gain voters here, this is aimed at gaining votes everywhere else (except Basque country of course).
 
J

Jasup

Member
kiguel182 said:
What’s happening from part of the Spanish government is a disgrace.

Beating up people for voting should not be acceptable. Not in a democracy.

Even if the voting is illegal this is clearly not the way to handle things and the people aren’t at fault. They are mishandling this big time.
Click to expand...

True, this should have been treated as what it really is - a political protest. Which is within everyone's rights.
 
D

dude

dude
God, regardless of opinion on the matter, I don't understand how anyone can see the videos without being furious with the Spanish government. This is a government acting against their own citizens, who committed no violent crime. This shit if insane and I can't even try and understand the Spanish government here as a thought experiment.
 
Bustanen

Bustanen

Member
ndtE1Hz.gif
 
P

psychowave

Member
Kain said:
PP was always a residual force in Catalunya, they know with this repression they will not gain voters here, this is aimed at gaining votes everywhere else (except Basque country of course).
Click to expand...

Anyone who wants to vote for PP after today is a disgusting animal. Then again, I probably shouldn't be surprised anymore that some "people" are okay with elderly people bleeding on the ground as long as they're Catalonian. :(
 
T

Tiamant

Member
Went to my voting station and found a very long queue under the rain. Only Guardia Urbana (local police from Barcelona) were at the site monitoring that there were no incidents. Word arrived that internet access had been blocked so they were counting votes using 4G connection. Volunteers were asking people to put their phones on airplane mode.

I want to go back in an hour but I'm afraid Policía Nacional will come sooner than later.
 
Patrick S.

Patrick S.

Banned
Spanish police are fucking assholes. I went to school with, and was in the same circle of friends with, like ten guys who went on to become Guardia Civiles and Policías Locales. What did they all have in common in school? They were bullies, were into fights, stole motorbikes or bicycles, smoked weed, and threatened people with getting them into shit through their fathers who were also police. None of them became a policeman to uphold the law. They did because all they knew was hitting people who were weaker, and liked getting away with it.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
What a shitshow. Spanish government is reacting in the worse possible way. There's no reason to not allow people to put a printed paper into a carton box. It's ridiculous. They should just confiscate the ballots at the end of the day and go against everybody who tries to use the result as some kind of official result. That's all. Going against people who try to vote in this farce is just wrong.

The Catalan government is the second shitty actor of the day, organising a referendum without any proper anti-fraud measure more or less. They are practically push for the vote to be done in fraudulent way. Because they know they wouldn't have the number.

Two shitty sets of politicians fucking the people.

Still, Rajoy is the worst man of the day.
 
B

barber

Member
Patrick S. said:
Spanish police are fucking assholes. I went to school with, and was in the same circle of friends with, like ten guys who went on to become Guardia Civiles and Policías Locales. What did they all have in common in school? They were bullies, were into fights, stole motorbikes or bicycles, smoked weed, and threatened people with getting them into shit through their fathers who were also police. None of them became a policeman to uphold the law. They did because all they knew was hitting people who were weaker, and liked getting away with it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I am actually surprised with the response this time. They have been much "calmer" than they were in previous incidents such as the 15M or the miners protests. Still, the response is an exageration and it shouldnt have happened.
TLDR: spanish police force always overreacts.
 
S

SplitYourInfinities

Member
What is happening in Spain is disgusting and deeply saddens me. What a shitshow from the central government and the police. They complain about the indoctrination of the population by Catalonian political forces, schools and mediums, but they are the biggest independentist factory.

Kain said:
PP was always a residual force in Catalunya, they know with this repression they will not gain voters here, this is aimed at gaining votes everywhere else (except Basque country of course).
Click to expand...

WTF

Sorry but you are so wrong. Step down off your high horse.
 
B

barber

Member
SplitYourInfinities said:
WTF

Sorry but you are so wrong. Step down off your high horse.
Click to expand...

Sadly he is right, as can be shown in the fucking disgusting amount of catalanofobia displayed when the police where called to cataluña. That and of course not talking about corruption.
Edit: This is my impression, if there are numbers showing the opposite I would be really happy.
 
F

Firemind

Member
KingSnake said:
What a shitshow. Spanish government is reacting in the worse possible way. There's no reason to not allow people to put a printed paper into a carton box. It's ridiculous. They should just confiscate the ballots at the end of the day and go against everybody who tries to use the result as some kind of official result. That's all. Going against people who try to vote in this farce is just wrong.

The Catalan government is the second shitty actor of the day, organising a referendum without any proper anti-fraud measure more or less. They are practically push for the vote to be done in fraudulent way. Because they know they wouldn't have the number.

Two shitty sets of politicians fucking the people.

Still, Rajoy is the worst man of the day.
Click to expand...
Considering the disproportionate actions to stop the referendum, legal or illegal, from happening, I don't blame the Catalan government for not backing down.
 
T

Tiamant

Member
SplitYourInfinities said:
You are. I don't know anyone who is supporting what is happening in Catalonia right now.
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Go check the twitter hashtag for Catalan referendum to find plenty of violent apologists. If not go watch videos of the "A por ellos oeee" (go get them!) people waving goodbye to the Guardia Civil coming to Barcelona.

A hard stance in Catalonia has always granted votes to PP in the rest of Spain. They are fully aware that this is a lost cause for them so better get the hard wing of your voters in the rest of the country.

What do you think they use everytime they are down on polls? Catalonia and Gibraltar. (before it was ETA and nowadays Venezuela works too)
 
Nintendo's Witch

Nintendo's Witch

Member
Solution is easy. Reform the constitution and let the people vote. Until then any illegal action must have their consequences.

Democracy is not only voting. Democracy is about respecting the rule of law and the constitutional principles.
 
J

Jasup

Member
Firemind said:
Considering the disproportionate actions to stop the referendum from happening, I don't blame the Catalan government for not backing down.
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Of course, but to call it a referendum and acting like it really is one is a bit misleading as it is not really that. It's a massive political protest, which eventually could result in actual referendum and it's their right to hold it. But people have to be honest about what it is.
 
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