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Catalonia to split from Spain within 48 hours of secession vote

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Nintendo's Witch

Nintendo's Witch

Member
I'm ashamed of my country and i feel sad for Cataluña. A land i know and love too well.

Fucking corrupts politicians and the sheep that follows them, from both sides.

What a fucking disaster.
 
O

Onyar

Member
Javier23 said:
Is there always a universal census? He's not lying.
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When i voted only the people registered at the neighborhood could vote because the electronic vote wasnt working. But i hear that in some points it was working but very slow and only during the firsts hours.
 
R

RalchAC

Member
Ethelwulf said:
Isn't the average yes catalan voter very different from the average yes brexit voter? My understanding is that most staff from universities for example would vote for a yes. I work at a well known university here in Barcelona and that is what I see all around. Not Spanish btw...

Edit: thread title needs to be updated.
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There are quite a few left wing independent young adults in catalonian universities as far as I know.

Still, the situation is quite different from Brexit. Brexit was due to "econimics" (well, not really but yeah...).

This is because there is a sizeable amount of people that considers they have enough culturally differential traits to consider the region a nation, that they want to turn into an independent state.

Which is something that can be done positively (there is an amazing independent music scene in their language, specially in genres like rock, hip hop and Ska) or negatively, like what the bunch of asshats from the governing coalition have been doing.

However, that doesn't excuse how the Spanish government has handled this whole thing. This is happening because of their incompetence. The PP basically have done more to convert people into independent nationalists than any other party. That's how bad they've handled this whole thing.
 
Green Yoshi

Green Yoshi

Member
Xando said:
While police is obviously far too agressive these people still participate in illegal activities don't they?
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The same can be said about the protesters in Venezuela. Franco died in in 1975 and yet forty years later there has not been a legal referendum about the independance of Catalonia. I can understand the frustration of people. And they are not just a bunch of losers that blame others for their failed lifes.
 
D

Domaje

Member
Bustanen said:
ndtE1Hz.gif
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"Illegal action must have their consequences.

Democracy is not only voting.

Democracy is about respecting the rule of law and the constitutional principles."
 
Business

Business

Member
Queued for more than two hours under the rain until I managed to vote. Apparently the computer system is being constantly under attack and that is delaying the voting. There was people asking everyone on the queue to put their phones on airplane mode to save bandwidth and giving instructions to resist peacefully in case the Spanish police would come. Barcelona city center btw.
 
Nintendo's Witch

Nintendo's Witch

Member
Green Yoshi said:
The same can be said about the protesters in Venezuela. Franco died in in 1975 and yet forty years later there has not been a legal referendum about the independance of Catalonia. I can understand the frustration of people. And they are not just a bunch of losers that blame others for their failed lifes.
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i really hope you are joking here, like holy fuck dude
 
E

Ethelwulf

Member
RalchAC said:
There are quite a few left wing independent young adults in catalonian universities as far as I know.

Still, the situation is quite different from Brexit. Brexit was due to "econimics" (well, not really but yeah...).

This is because there is a sizeable amount of people that considers they have enough culturally differential traits to consider the region a nation, that they want to turn into an independent state.

Which is something that can be done positively (there is an amazing independent music scene in their language, specially in genres like rock, hip hop and Ska) or negatively, like what the bunch of asshats from the governing coalition have been doing.

However, that doesn't excuse how the Spanish government has handled this whole thing. This is happening because of their incompetence. The PP basically have done more to convert people into independent nationalists than any other party. That's how bad they've handled this whole thing.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying. This should be in the OP honestly.
 
D

deathkiller

Member
Tiamant said:
Go check the twitter hashtag for Catalan referendum to find plenty of violent apologists. If not go watch videos of the "A por ellos oeee" (go get them!) people waving goodbye to the Guardia Civil coming to Barcelona.

A hard stance in Catalonia has always granted votes to PP in the rest of Spain. They are fully aware that this is a lost cause for them so better get the hard wing of your voters in the rest of the country.

What do you think they use everytime they are down on polls? Catalonia and Gibraltar. (before it was ETA and nowadays Venezuela works too)
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I still think that it will be hard to sell that they are doing something better in the long term that what PSOE would had done. For example PSC is currently saying "remove the police and let them have their fake vote". Sure strong man actions are popular among the typical PP voter but they would have vote for them either way so the question is how this looks for those who sometimes vote PSOE and other times PP.
 
F

Firemind

Member
KingSnake said:
They are the damn government of Catalonia, not some activists nobody heard of.

Fraudulent voting is not democracy either.
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I mean the citizens of Catalunya. Silencing a population could also cause social unrest, especially amidst an economic crisis with record unemployment.

I'm not saying there are any heroes in this matter. Just trying to wrap my head around the psychological implications of these actions.
 
E

Elfotografoalocado

Banned
deathkiller said:
I still think that it will be hard to sell that they are doing something better in the long term that what PSOE would had done. For example PSC is currently saying "remove the police and let them have their fake vote". Sure strong man actions are popular among the typical PP voter but they would have vote for them either way so the question is how this looks for those who sometimes vote PSOE and other times PP.
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This is showing the true colors of PP, at least in principle. However, the anticatalan propaganda is strong among a portion of the population, so this is hard to gauge.
 
Nintendo's Witch

Nintendo's Witch

Member
Fdkn said:
It shouldn't because it's false.

The main argument made by the independentists is 'Espanya ens roba'.
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It is. And it's a typical populist blanket statement used my many totalitarian regimes in recent history. You don't have to research much to find many examples of this bullshit.
 
Green Yoshi

Green Yoshi

Member
Nintendo's Witch said:
i really hope you are joking here, like holy fuck dude
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Protests that could "affect" the controversial Constituent Assembly vote this weekend will be banned, the government of Venezuela announced on Thursday.

"National meetings and demonstrations, concentrations of people and any similar acts that may disturb or affect the normal development of the electoral process are prohibited throughout the country," Interior Minister Nestor Reverol said at a news conference in Caracas.
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http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/07/170728021229745.html

I'm not defending the government of Venezuela but the argument "it is illegal" is a really poor one.
 
R

RalchAC

Member
Elfotografoalocado said:
TBH there's also a strong economic argument that Artur Mas started around 2012 when his rightwing collaboration with PP made his government unpopular. Namely "Spain robs from us" It's what I hear the most.
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Yeah, how did I forget about that.

I'm not independentist, but I still think there are compelling arguments for people to route for said cause. The problem is that most independent parties have been throwing shit around for a while and burying those arguments with others that I honestly can't stand at all.
 
V

Violet_0

Banned
SporeCrawler said:
Add Germany - Bayern and East Germany.
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Baverians know better than that. They jokingly invoke the Freistaat Bayern when they need a punchline, but barely anyone actually honestly wants to split from Germany. There's no big push from all of East Germany to secede either, this isn't an issue
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Firemind said:
I mean the citizens of Catalunya. Silencing a population could also cause social unrest, especially amidst an economic crisis with record unemployment.

I'm not saying there are any heroes in this matter. Just trying to wrap my head around the psychological implications of these actions.
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The people should have the right to express their opinion. I was talking about the Catalan government though. What they are doing is also making the opinion of the people invalid at worse, unreliable at best.
 
T

Tugatrix

Member
Nintendo's Witch said:
Spain is a democracy. Venezuela is a communist dictatorship. Get your facts checked, before posting nonsensical comparisons.
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It's an authoritarian democracy, nothing communist about the regime per se given the current constitution. After the new constituion we'll see its a different story
 
J

JCH!

Member
As a Canarian immigrant to Catalunya, a land that has been my home for the better part of a decade now, this clusterfuck makes me feel extremely sad.

Worst part is that I see no solution on the horizon.
 
Nintendo's Witch

Nintendo's Witch

Member
Tiamant said:
Facts. And the international observers that got kicked from voting centres.

If what is happening today happened in Venezuela, Spanish media outlets would be losing their shit and you know it.
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Facts from biased and interested opinions. Who are these "intentional observers"?

Julian Assange?

Arnaldo Otegi?
 
T

Tiamant

Member
Nintendo's Witch said:
Facts from biased and interested opinions. Who are these "intentional observers"?

Julian Assange?

Arnaldo Otegi?
Click to expand...

Actual international observers attending to the voting stations.

http://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20171001/431688032104/referendum-1-o-en-directo.html

I just saw the footage of them on TV getting carried away by the police. I will put a link when I find it. In the meantime you can keep looking for nooks and cranies to justify todays violence.
 
E

Elfotografoalocado

Banned
ramparter said:
Nice democracy. Catalanians must feel so lucky.
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I assume you are American, in all democracy rankings Spain scores higher than the United States, of course as a full, advanced democracy. Which only says, democracies are not perfect. Our government right now is a bunch of inmobilistic, rancid rightwingers very out of touch with modern society and who really dislike protests. They are a minority government out of the stupidity of the other political parties who could have made a coalition.
This is much more complex than your assumptions, it's a stupid shitshow all around.

What we need is a constitutional reform that allows more self government by regions of some key areas, the mediation of the European Comission, and getting those incompetent bastards out of power.
 
O

Oriel

Member
Fuck Spain and all those here opposed to Catalan self-determination. If this keeps up the Catalans will do what we Irish did: get disillusioned with the democratic process and take up arms to acheive independence.
 
J

Javier23

Banned
SomedayTheFire said:
Are you trying to have a discussion, or argument? Or just trying to post like a little child?
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He's the one that posted a very accurate comparison. The moment he was shat on without any specific arguments, he asked for them. I'd say he's doing more than enough.
Oriel said:
Fuck Spain and all those here opposed to Catalan self-determination. If this keeps up the Catalans will do what we Irish did: get disillusioned with the democratic process and take up arms to acheive independence.
Click to expand...
Been there, done that. We suffered ETA long enough.
 
S

SplitYourInfinities

Member
Kain said:
Check twitter or any social media in gneral. It's sad.
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I mostly see people complaining about what is happening. Of course, there are some arseholes supporting violence, but that's social media in a nutshell. Anyway, there is no need to rely on twitter, my friends and family are totally against this and they are not Catalonian.
 
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