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Concord flopping = The end of the live service trend chasing
Pride can't build an empire, there are no shortcuts for gaas success, that doesn't come overnight, you want to build an online community for gaas then do it the right way, Lan parties, esports, key people in the industry that made gaas happen, acknowledge pc as a standalone platform, not a weird beast that has nothing to do with gaming, not acknowledging pc is the first step to failure.
Spyxos
Gold Member
Of course a few failed. But Fornite is still making tons of money and ZZZ has just been added and is incredibly successful. So no. There will still be a lot of gaas games. Everyone wants a piece of the pie.
And unlike the MMO boom back then, where it was very difficult to launch one successfully after wow. There seem to be many Gaas successes.
And unlike the MMO boom back then, where it was very difficult to launch one successfully after wow. There seem to be many Gaas successes.
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semiconscious
Member
correct. & helldivers 2 also established that you needn't pour 100s of millions of dollars into a live service game to make it successful, you just have to be 1) imaginative, 2) fun, & 3) lucky (right place at the right time)...
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Here's what'll happen: Studios like Naughty Dog, Insomniac and SSM won't be tasked with attempting MP in the near future, and probably not a live-service ever again. Factions 2 and The Great Web were years long wastes of time, and Sony seems to know their greenlighting was an operational failure.
As it stands now, the premium single-player titles are the greatest asset PlayStation has. Half of this generation being rocky will be a good lesson teaching not to mess around with that. Otherwise, they will continue making attempts.
As it stands now, the premium single-player titles are the greatest asset PlayStation has. Half of this generation being rocky will be a good lesson teaching not to mess around with that. Otherwise, they will continue making attempts.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Well, it is hard to tell how much did it cost to develop HD2 considering the game was in development just as long as Concord...
But I do think at least there will be decline in explicit DEI in the game with toxic colors, weird, ugly characters shoved into the games. We will get proper characters and not caricatures. With GaaS stuff - probably in some genres but we will get more GaaS anyway - games are too costly to be made from scratch. It is easier to support the existing ones.
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AmuroChan
Member
I think you're giving Concord too much credit. It's a new IP created by a new studio nobody cares about. As long as some GaaS games continue to rake in the dough, publishers and developers will continue to aim for a slice of that pie. Concord failing isn't going to stop that.
Goalus
Member
Anthony Soprano
Member
To fully embrace the booming mythical legend genre, Sony will pivot from live service to more Genji sequels with even bigger giant enemy crabs.
tmlDan
Member
What's nefarious about it? its a game with NO BP, NO MTX, just a flat cost, that's not nefarious AT ALL. There are games that do significantly worse than that and gouge customer. Why now? cause its sony?
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
What I find funny about Concord is people said Apex Legends' characters were ugly, but they seem downright great compared to how anal warts ugly Concord's characters are.
Every year it just gets worse, things just keep getting uglier and lamer.
People are stupid and don't realize ultra big success like this can only happen once, you can't just repeat that formula, you have to come up with the next new innovation.
Every year it just gets worse, things just keep getting uglier and lamer.
Not a single one of those post WoW MMOs came even close to doing WoW numbers even though they cranked them out by the boatload, the same will be true here.
People are stupid and don't realize ultra big success like this can only happen once, you can't just repeat that formula, you have to come up with the next new innovation.
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newtypepilot
Member
These games fail not because they are live service, but because they suck. Awful gameplay with an unattractive aesthetic in a saturated market is a recipe for disaster.
The fact they spent 8 years and over 100m on Concord basically says there was zero oversight from Sony. It's what happens when you put unqualified people in decision making positions.
The fact they spent 8 years and over 100m on Concord basically says there was zero oversight from Sony. It's what happens when you put unqualified people in decision making positions.
miklonus
Member
I'm the first idiot in this thread to mention Avengers, and even Gotham Knight's after that?
Who the fuck asked to play as Barbara Gordon or Kamala Khan in a live service game?
That "saturated market" is the live service market, so yes it "IS" because it is live service. These games are failing for every reason under the sun. How the fuck do you say live service isn't it at all, whatsoever, then proceed, ten or so words later, to say that releasing a game in an over-crowded LIVE SERVICE market is one of the main reasons.
Who the fuck asked to play as Barbara Gordon or Kamala Khan in a live service game?
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MatrixReloaded101
Member
Its never going to end but it will just get harder for new GaaS games to build an audience. Basically the bar is very high now because people don't want to drop games that they have pour tons of money/time into.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Wont end because there's lots of successful GAAS game making bank. So most game companies will still have the itch to do GAAS hoping to strike gold.
Only way I see GAAS dying a bit is if magically the bubble bursts and even Fortnite, COD, FIFA etc..... all bomb together so even the most itchy GAAS pumper in a board room will notice if all the big franchises bomb then there's no point in the smaller games trying either.
But I dont see that happening.
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Generic
Member
Singleplayer-only games is a waste of time both for developers and players.
Shits_McGiggles
Member
It will never end as long as MBAs and developers acting as wannabe MBAs run game companies.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Players, no. There will always be a large subsection of the market that effectively want to play single player games alone.
Developers, well there's nothing in my post that insinuates the attraction to live service is irrational - but tell Crystal Dynamics, Bioware and Rocksteady that SP-only is a waste of time.
I know some people think that tacked on MP should return, but they don't understand that the games are too complex and the working culture is too different to facilitate that. You really have to choose between SP and MP unless you're CoD, and even that has been breached on at least 1 occasion. If you consider the SP of any CoD to have been truly fleshed out in recent years.
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Inviusx
Member
I think hero shooters are the thing that's falling off, not live service games themselves.
I think hero shooters seem like a great idea on paper as they are so easily monetised if they blow up, skins and poses and charms and emotes and all that stuff just makes sense existing in that genre. Plus if they blow up, people form attachments to their favourite characters so there's that extra layer of buy in from customers as well.
I get why hero shooters have been a trend it makes so much sense as a business because the monetisation strategy wraps around it so well, it's win win for the company and the customer if it's successful.
I dont think Concord itself is the problem, it seems like a competent enough game from what I've heard. I just simply think it didn't hit and that is because of a range of different, much more nuanced reasons, not just "woke game bad".
Marathon is going to blow up, it will be a massive hit. Quote me if I end up being wrong.
I think hero shooters seem like a great idea on paper as they are so easily monetised if they blow up, skins and poses and charms and emotes and all that stuff just makes sense existing in that genre. Plus if they blow up, people form attachments to their favourite characters so there's that extra layer of buy in from customers as well.
I get why hero shooters have been a trend it makes so much sense as a business because the monetisation strategy wraps around it so well, it's win win for the company and the customer if it's successful.
I dont think Concord itself is the problem, it seems like a competent enough game from what I've heard. I just simply think it didn't hit and that is because of a range of different, much more nuanced reasons, not just "woke game bad".
Marathon is going to blow up, it will be a massive hit. Quote me if I end up being wrong.
Balducci30
Member
The problem is you can prob afford risking flops more because of the potential benefit if you have a hit
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Interesting
Why do you think marathon is in a different boat? Bungie is obviously talented, but do extraction pvp shooters have a high ceiling?
Bumblebeetuna
Member
The first game on your list is Redfall. It was hot garbage but not a service game. MS had them delay it to remove the GaaS focus. Imagine if it had stayed in, could have been even worse.
But no way, trend chasing will continue, because you still continue to have the juggernauts in the genre. As long as we have Fartnite and WarZone and Apex etc etc making tons of money, people will still try to make the next one. Think of all the service games that have come and gone.
In a few days we’ll have Smite 2. The cycle will continue.
But no way, trend chasing will continue, because you still continue to have the juggernauts in the genre. As long as we have Fartnite and WarZone and Apex etc etc making tons of money, people will still try to make the next one. Think of all the service games that have come and gone.
In a few days we’ll have Smite 2. The cycle will continue.
DeepSpace5D
Member
In the same year that Helldivers II sold like 15 million copies? Yeah, good luck with that.
Dirk Benedict
Member
Unfortunately, most are. GenZ/X spending their money to destroy the industry, imo. Either way, I won't live long enough to complete my Backlog, so I don't give a True Fuck.
Inviusx
Member
I think just from a sociological perspective it will be "cool" to be positive about Marathon. The trailer has 21m views as of right now, it's slick and alternative and has a modern dystopia vibe and has enough mystery around its gameplay and development that its left people wantint more. It's already starting on the right foot and has an insane pedigree behind it. I see it snowballing from here and creating a fomo/zeitgeist at release that will be incredibly desirable to be a part of.
Bungie games traditionally have big impactful releases and long tails and streamers will want to make a name for themselves in the Marathon community which will draw in their viewers and the internet will be talking about it, it will be a big, exciting and well marketed release.
If the product looks "cool" and had a "cool" vibe, people will think it's cool to be positive and a part of that world and that community and the rest will be history.
I just feel it.
genesisblock
Member
I believe his point was that the concept itself is what the players want, not the scam.
Johnny Concrete
Member
Maybe. But don’t forget games now take 6+ years to make, so even if they stop producing these games right now the next couple of years will still be full of chase trending clones.
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Spyxos
Gold Member
FF 14 is pretty big, but it also took some time to get there.
Astray
Member
The concept was part of the scam. Even if it was doable, it's now tarnished.
You should follow the lead of good actually shipped games instead.
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
I want another live service hero shooter!!!!!1! Said no one ever.
Live service is fine if it’s a game people want and the roadmap is legit and ongoing costs are fair.
There's a reason why Helldivers 2 saw mass uptake and Concord fell flat. Thing is Sony knew this was going to be a flop since I’ve been spammed like no other game has over Concord and it’s impending release.
Live service is fine if it’s a game people want and the roadmap is legit and ongoing costs are fair.
There's a reason why Helldivers 2 saw mass uptake and Concord fell flat. Thing is Sony knew this was going to be a flop since I’ve been spammed like no other game has over Concord and it’s impending release.
S&B started chasing the 'GaaS trend' more than 12 years ago. Yes we've had one full bust cycle while it was in development and are in the second one now - but this is never going away - no matter how much you wish it.
Majukun
Member
doubt so.
live services are still potential money makers and executives are willing to build 1/2 projects to look for the big one that rakes profits for 10 years straight
also, remember that projects now take a very long time to make, so we are stuill gonna get a bunch of project late to the party in the following years even if there's a course correction in the industry in the long term.
the funniest thing is that gaas started as small projects with big returns but for very few of them...and all executives could do was throw money at the idea so that now they are big projects with an high risk high reward connotation
live services are still potential money makers and executives are willing to build 1/2 projects to look for the big one that rakes profits for 10 years straight
also, remember that projects now take a very long time to make, so we are stuill gonna get a bunch of project late to the party in the following years even if there's a course correction in the industry in the long term.
the funniest thing is that gaas started as small projects with big returns but for very few of them...and all executives could do was throw money at the idea so that now they are big projects with an high risk high reward connotation
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Yep, Fairgame$ will get exactly the same reaction as Concord. It is made for the same audience by a studio with the same sensibilities as Firewalk - and it will fail horribly.
Braag
Member
Live service games will live on until the industry finds something new to chase. Someone comes up with a new formula and make a ton of money, everyone in the industry start creating their own version of that new thing. 95% of them will fail, a ton of people lose their jobs and lots of studios close down because of it. It has always been so with the gaming industry.
simpatico
Gold Member
It’s not even GaaS that’s inherently a problem. Give me a Rainbow 6 Vegas GaaS, and if it plays just like the OG, I’m gonna play the fuck out of it.
Also you need less players for a successful service game than for a single player game these days. But the playersustbbe active.
The risk of failure is high there. That's also why most of these games start in more or less early access (e.g. sea of thieves was so incomplete at the beginning). "Fail fast" is important with those games, so that not to many resources are allocated to a failure.
A big difference with single player games is, a single player games can life longer than the studio and still be a financial success with late sales. Multiplayer games not really. They often die faster than the content patches can arrive.
Madserb2023
Member
Sadly no. You will need at least several of Concord like failures in a row. They see Fortnight and the easy money if you do succeed. Games are designed in a board room now by people who don't even play games. Only bankruptcy will end this for many of these companies.
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