Support NeoGAF

[Arachnid]

On the other hand some games that are billed as 100% fun bore me to tears.

Agreed. Crackdown (all of them) and Sunset Overdrive, for example, bored me to tears. Same with any of those colorful, tryhard, quirky post-apocalyptic setting games like Rage 2 and FC: New Dawn.

Same with Doom, for that matter. This one is a bit more controversial but that was the most monotonous game I've ever played. Skating around a level blasting through repeating rooms of enemies to heavy metal music over and over was awful. Sure, it felt fun to shoot guns like the shotty, but that lost it's novelty after the first two levels. I still don't understand how this game was so praised.

These are all games that people associate with "fun", but I hated every single one. I think DS will be more my speed.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Do we really need to be like the borg and agree on everything?

Resistance Is Futile.

 

[Mozza]

The backwards thinking of some people here and on the internet as a whole regarding this game is quite amazing. Once in a moon a game comes out that tries to do something different and unique and you are going out of your way to hate on it? Just why?

Would you rather developers churn out the same uncharted, cod, asscreed etc clones year after year than do something unique?

Could you explain this thinking please?

Just because some reviewers people do not like this game does not make it backwards thinking, it's just personal opinions of the reviewers in question, and to just take one point of view good or bad would be stupid, as you say the game takes risks and with this you have to realize not everybody will be happy with it, but the negative reviews seem to be saying the game is tedious in parts, which is nothing to do with any revolutionary aspects of the game.

 

[comshoplesce]

Will buy after 20€ price.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Since when?

Since always?

The choice is yours, bruh.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Since when?

Since, well, ever! At least I'd hope so. I'd imagine people would want to approach forums much like they'd approach a real life conversation. A meaty, constructive, and engaging exchange. Rather than one filled with trolling, baiting, and drive-bys. Lol.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

Since, well, ever! At least I'd hope so. I'd imagine people would want to approach forums much like they'd approach a real life conversation. A meaty, constructive, and engaging exchange. Rather than one filled with trolling, baiting, and drive-bys. Lol.

I wish that as much as anybody. Unfortunately, you are in the wrong place for that.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I wish that as much as anybody. Unfortunately, you are in the wrong place for that.

What, the internet? True.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I wish that as much as anybody. Unfortunately, you are in the wrong place for that.

Not entirely true. It'd be wrong of me to expect that from other people, but I could always hope for the best. I, however, will always do my best to provide that experience.

 

[ethomaz]

Like everybody said fun is subjective.

I hope the game to be good for me independent of the fun factor.

 

[Jigsaah]

Now that the reviews have been out for a few days and the dust has settled, I went back and read a few of these reviews. Its kinda making me eat my words to be honest. Some of the reviewers are giving pretty high scores but if I would have read the review prior to knowing the score, I would not have guessed they would have scored so high. Its just another reason why gaming journalism at in the arena of game reviews is unreliable. Metacritic isn't really to blame because it's just a culmination of the collective fallacy of the gaming media.

IGN may have been one of the only reviewers who actually spoke their mind and stood behind their words. I admit this and I hate IGN.

Sorry MiyazakiHatesKojima I know you made a thread specifically about IGN...but after reading through a number of these reviews, I think they might be right. I'll still buy and play the game, but it'll be on PC and at a discount.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Now that the reviews have been out for a few days and the dust has settled, I went back and read a few of these reviews. Its kinda making me eat my words to be honest. Some of the reviewers are giving pretty high scores but if I would have read the review prior to knowing the score, I would not have guessed they would have scored so high. Its just another reason why gaming journalism at in the arena of game reviews is unreliable. Metacritic isn't really to blame because it's just a culmination of the collective fallacy of the gaming media.

IGN may have been one of the only reviewers who actually spoke their mind and stood behind their words. I admit this and I hate IGN.

Sorry MiyazakiHatesKojima I know you made a thread specifically about IGN...but after reading through a number of these reviews, I think they might be right. I'll still buy and play the game, but it'll be on PC and at a discount.

You only agreed to IGN's review because they spoke at a level that you're comfortable understanding in terms of a game's review. The 10/10 reviews have spoken about the game in a way that only those who played it would understand.

IGN's reviews caters to the cynical and skeptics of today's gaming world. Death Stranding transcends these traits and created a game that will transcend other gamers from those pitiful traits which are constantly reinforced by shoddy journalists such as IGN.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Now that the reviews have been out for a few days and the dust has settled, I went back and read a few of these reviews. Its kinda making me eat my words to be honest. Some of the reviewers are giving pretty high scores but if I would have read the review prior to knowing the score, I would not have guessed they would have scored so high. Its just another reason why gaming journalism at in the arena of game reviews is unreliable. Metacritic isn't really to blame because it's just a culmination of the collective fallacy of the gaming media.

IGN may have been one of the only reviewers who actually spoke their mind and stood behind their words. I admit this and I hate IGN.

Sorry MiyazakiHatesKojima I know you made a thread specifically about IGN...but after reading through a number of these reviews, I think they might be right. I'll still buy and play the game, but it'll be on PC and at a discount.

 

[ManaByte]

Giant Bomb gave it 2 stars:

 

[Bryank75]

Darkstation,, a small channel but they gave it 4.5 / 5. Or a 9/10

 

[woigemok]

Giant Bomb gave it 2 stars:

Good review.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

And what is your definition of fun, exactly?

Something you like doing?

I dont like doing things I dont like, but thats just me I guess.

 

[Bryank75]

Good review.

Guy is a moron, if the game had a load of explosions and slow-mo headshots, he'd love it.
It's troglodytes like him that prevent gaming from being anything more than what it is now.... they were apparently discussing how terrible Blizzard is for ages and then went on to cover all the announcements and games the company plans to release. Stcking it to the power, dude!!!! FML

'Balance' - shorthand for: more killing guys with guns

 

[MiguelItUp]

I skimmed the Giant Bomb review to see the negative points and thought it was interesting to see them mention their first negative mention was pacing. Especially since I read so many people say that the pacing felt really good and kept you engaged throughout it all. Started as a slow burn but as it hooks it keeps on and never lets go.

I've said it before, but Giant Bomb was never my source for video game reviews, just entertainment. I like the dudes quite a bit, but I primarily visit them for their quick looks and bombcasts. IGN hasn't been relevant to me since the early to mid 00's, lol. Honestly, I don't care for reviews period, but flaunting the negative ones as if there is some magical truth behind them really doesn't matter to me. Especially since they come from sources where their review scale and opinions don't really reflect mine.

Again, in the long run reviews are a stranger's opinion. If you're interested, check it out for yourself. Man, if I followed reviews for every form of entertainment, I'd miss out on a lot of things I ended up really loving.

 

[Tygeezy]

Pacing is a subjective measurement. I don't need every game to be an adrenaline rush, even if I do enjoy those games. If this games has a good narrative, some puzzle solving, stealth, and an atmosphere that's appealing to me... I think it' something I would like. Im waiting for the pc release regardless and have no shortage of other titles to play.

 

[Bryank75]

I also get the feeling Alex Navarro fundamentally does not agree with the message of the story about a country coming together, someone like him would rather genocide anybody right of the far left. There are no bridges for people like him and he knows that his profession profit on creating division more than anything else.

What is really sickening is reading the comments congratulating him on 'that last stinger', the celebratory atmosphere around dumping on the game! People like this suck the life out of gaming.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Giant Bomb gave it 2 stars:

It's no Dream Daddy.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

What’s the record for replies in a game review thread? I see this going 4k+ at this rate

 

[Breakage]

Giant Bomb gave it 2 stars:

I enjoyed reading this review. It's straight to the point and captures a lot of I've suspected about DS: the game doesn't actually have anything meaningful to say about “connection”, it's tedious and has pacing issues, there isn't much beyond delivering stuff and some uninspired combat encounters, the characters are bland – ie the use of famous actors doesn't really enhance the game, and traversal can be frustrating because of the gameplay mechanics.

It's interesting that once again a reviewer has commented on the lack of challenge in regard to the combat encounters. It seems that there are no memorable MGS-style boss battles or genuinely compelling enemies. All these reviewers remarking on the lack of combat challenge can't all be collectively wrong.

There is no way that this game is a 10/10. I'm more inclined to agree with the reviewers who aren't automatically fawning over Kojima and glossing over Death Stranding's shortcomings by talking about it as if it were some sort of transcendental out-of-body experience.

I think the low score reviews such as this one and IGN's are closer to the mark than the auto 10/10 “It's Kojima Genius!” reviews given out by other outlets.

 

[vpance]

Basically if you can't enjoy the gameplay loop it's going to get killed in the review, because the game is so long and a huge portion of it is delivery missions.

At the same time there's plenty of reviewers out there who enjoy the loop or are even addicted to playing it. What gene do they have that Alex doesn't?

 

[ethomaz]

Basically if you can't enjoy the gameplay loop it's going to get killed in the review, because the game is so long and a huge portion of it is delivery missions.

At the same time there's plenty of reviewers out there who enjoy the loop or are even addicted to playing it. What gene do they have that Alex doesn't?

Probably a brain.

 

[Endless Fluff]

I love the pointless discussion about "fun".

What gene do they have that Alex doesn't?

Spoiler: The german gene

 

[Bryank75]

I enjoyed reading this review. It's straight to the point and captures a lot of I've suspected about DS: the game doesn't actually have anything meaningful to say about “connection”, it's tedious and has pacing issues, there isn't much beyond delivering stuff and some uninspired combat encounters, the characters are bland – ie the use of famous actors doesn't really enhance the game, and traversal can be frustrating because of the gameplay mechanics.

It's interesting that once again a reviewer has commented on the lack of challenge in regard to the combat encounters. It seems that there are no memorable MGS-style boss battles or genuinely compelling enemies. All these reviewers remarking on the lack of combat challenge can't all be collectively wrong.

There is no way that this game is a 10/10. I'm more inclined to agree with the reviewers who aren't automatically fawning over Kojima and glossing over Death Stranding's shortcomings by talking about it as if it were some sort of transcendental out-of-body experience.

I think the low score reviews such as this one and IGN's are closer to the mark than the auto 10/10 “It's Kojima Genius!” reviews given out by other outlets.

That's amazing.... I feel the same about Forza Horizon 2!

This is clearly the only unbiased review of that game;

Who cares about Forza Horizon 2? - Quarter to Three

Like all Forza games, Forza Horizon 2 has a dynamically color-coded line that tells you where to drive and when to brake. If I turn the line off, I’m at a major disadvantage to everyone else playing Horizon 2, some of whom I’m asked to compete against after every race. “Would you like to race […]

www.quartertothree.com

 

[BlackOlivesMatter]

It's no Dream Daddy.

Won't give them a click, but let me guess.... Not emo enough, no meth heads so Alex couldn't relate to the story. No dream daddy dicks. Abby didn't think it was very very very good. There's was an android ass.

 

[Bryank75]

Alex and all the little bitches at Giant Bomb should just listen to this track and imagine it's Kojima laying it down!

 

[DeepEnigma]

Won't give them a click, but let me guess.... Not emo enough, no meth heads so Alex couldn't relate to the story. No dream daddy dicks. Abby didn't think it was very very very good. There's was an android ass.

It’s no Gone Home either.

 

[vpance]

Probably a brain.

Lol.

I think some people just have a really low tolerance for getting through any unusual experience.

 

[Bryank75]

Gamersprey review, never heard of him before.

 

[woigemok]

Lol.

I think some people just have a really low tolerance for getting through any unusual experience.

Even some positive reviewers found Death Stranding boring/dull/tedious/repetitive in the gameplay department

 

[FranXico]

Out of all the outlets with obvious biases, Eurogamer actually surprised me the most. Didn't see that Recommended coming.

GiantBomb? Surprised they gave it 2 stars. Could have been 1.

 

[Bryank75]

Even some positive reviewers found Death Stranding boring/dull/tedious/repetitive in the gameplay department

Man, RDR2 had me shoveling shit and hammering fences together for hours at the end of the game.... and the same people who said that was a masterpiece are saying this is trash and haven't even played it....

 

[FranXico]

Man, RDR2 had me shoveling shit and hammering fences together for hours at the end of the game.... and the same people who said that was a masterpiece are saying this is trash and haven't even played it....

Isn't it obvious though? At least in RDR2 you could shovel shit and hammer fences in True 4K on an Xbox One X...

 

[Jigsaah]

You only agreed to IGN's review because they spoke at a level that you're comfortable understanding in terms of a game's review. The 10/10 reviews have spoken about the game in a way that only those who played it would understand.

IGN's reviews caters to the cynical and skeptics of today's gaming world. Death Stranding transcends these traits and created a game that will transcend other gamers from those pitiful traits which are constantly reinforced by shoddy journalists such as IGN.

Ok first off, I'm not even refferring to the 10/10 reviews. I ignore those. You got people reviewing games as a 90 something or high 80s who literally say the game lacks in key areas. That does not sound like a high 80's game to me. We wouldn't give the same pass to really any other game. I'm conflicted at this point. Like part of me says...it's Kojima...so this is genius. The other part says..."if this wasn't a Kojima game", would people be lauding it like they have? My gut tells me....no, they wouldn't. So then you gotta think, if that's the case, and we are judging a game on the merit of how well it's made, and how fun it is rather than who made the game then there an obvious bias here.

Sorry bro, I love Kojima too...but I guess I'll refer back to this post once the masses have had a chance to go through it. Guarantee this is not going to live up to the reviews.

 

[Breakage]

Cut through the melodramatic language of the 9/10 Gamespot review and the same criticisms that exist in the low-scoring reviews are present:

“The first few hours of the game are the slowest, and a large part of that is because you don't have access to the online component right away. It's an incredibly lonely stretch of time during which you mostly just walk; the work you do early on is especially laborious in the absence of advanced gear, and it serves to give you an appreciation for other players and better gear as you move forward.”

“Even as the gameplay opens up, you continue to get a lot of story exposition with almost no explanation. It can all seem kind of goofy at first, and you can get lost in the metaphors; every city you need to add to the chiral network has "knot" in its name, for example, and they are all referred to as "knots" on a strand that connects the country. There's bizarre and unwarranted product placement in the form of Monster Energy drinks and the show Ride with Norman Reedus. Guillermo del Toro's likeness is used for a kind of dorky character called Deadman, and there's a woman named Fragile in a game about delivering packages.”

"The combat is mechanically simple--you mostly have to move around a bit and hit them before they hit you--but the sequences are visually and aurally arresting."

"The most cartoonish enemy is Troy Baker's Higgs, a terrorist whose depravity seems to know no bounds. Of all the characters, Higgs is the weakest, with far less nuance to him than anyone else in the cast"

"Death Stranding is a hard game to absorb. There are many intertwining threads to its plot, and silly names, corny moments, and heavy exposition belie an otherwise very simple message."

 

[Wink]

Guarantee this is not going to live up to the reviews.

Whom are you guaranteeing this to? Yourself? Cause that's really nice of you. Then yourself can feel good about yourself when you've played it and go like, "I knew the game wouldn't live up to the reviews".

 

[Bryank75]

Cut through the melodramatic language of the 9/10 Gamespot review and the same criticisms that exist in the low-scoring reviews are present:

“The first few hours of the game are the slowest, and a large part of that is because you don't have access to the online component right away. It's an incredibly lonely stretch of time during which you mostly just walk; the work you do early on is especially laborious in the absence of advanced gear, and it serves to give you an appreciation for other players and better gear as you move forward.”

“Even as the gameplay opens up, you continue to get a lot of story exposition with almost no explanation. It can all seem kind of goofy at first, and you can get lost in the metaphors; every city you need to add to the chiral network has "knot" in its name, for example, and they are all referred to as "knots" on a strand that connects the country. There's bizarre and unwarranted product placement in the form of Monster Energy drinks and the show Ride with Norman Reedus. Guillermo del Toro's likeness is used for a kind of dorky character called Deadman, and there's a woman named Fragile in a game about delivering packages.”

"The combat is mechanically simple--you mostly have to move around a bit and hit them before they hit you--but the sequences are visually and aurally arresting."

"The most cartoonish enemy is Troy Baker's Higgs, a terrorist whose depravity seems to know no bounds. Of all the characters, Higgs is the weakest, with far less nuance to him than anyone else in the cast"

"Death Stranding is a hard game to absorb. There are many intertwining threads to its plot, and silly names, corny moments, and heavy exposition belie an otherwise very simple message."

Just because there are criticisms doesn't mean the overall package and feeling you get from the game can't result in something transcendent, something much greater than the sum of it's parts and many reviews also say something similar to this.

 

[vpance]

Even some positive reviewers found Death Stranding boring/dull/tedious/repetitive in the gameplay department

Can't experience the highs without some lows.

TBH, most of the games I've played in recent memory have had boring/tedious segments. I don't doubt DS will be different. Just a question if I'll enjoy the sum of its parts.

 

[woigemok]

Cut through the melodramatic language of the 9/10 Gamespot review and the same criticisms that exist in the low-scoring reviews are present:

“The first few hours of the game are the slowest, and a large part of that is because you don't have access to the online component right away. It's an incredibly lonely stretch of time during which you mostly just walk; the work you do early on is especially laborious in the absence of advanced gear, and it serves to give you an appreciation for other players and better gear as you move forward.”

“Even as the gameplay opens up, you continue to get a lot of story exposition with almost no explanation. It can all seem kind of goofy at first, and you can get lost in the metaphors; every city you need to add to the chiral network has "knot" in its name, for example, and they are all referred to as "knots" on a strand that connects the country. There's bizarre and unwarranted product placement in the form of Monster Energy drinks and the show Ride with Norman Reedus. Guillermo del Toro's likeness is used for a kind of dorky character called Deadman, and there's a woman named Fragile in a game about delivering packages.”

"The combat is mechanically simple--you mostly have to move around a bit and hit them before they hit you--but the sequences are visually and aurally arresting."

"The most cartoonish enemy is Troy Baker's Higgs, a terrorist whose depravity seems to know no bounds. Of all the characters, Higgs is the weakest, with far less nuance to him than anyone else in the cast"

"Death Stranding is a hard game to absorb. There are many intertwining threads to its plot, and silly names, corny moments, and heavy exposition belie an otherwise very simple message."

TLDR; Bad gameplay design but Kojima = 9/10

Can't experience the highs without some lows.

TBH, most of the games I've played in recent memory have had boring/tedious segments. I don't doubt DS will be different. Just a question if I'll enjoy the sum of its parts.

The low part is pretty much your overall experience in Death Stranding. Gameplay design and structure are the most important aspect that defines a video game, it's a big NO from me if the major criticism of a game in that department.

Edit
Down 1 point after GB's review

 

[Breakage]

Just because there are criticisms doesn't mean the overall package and feeling you get from the game can't result in something transcendent, something much greater than the sum of it's parts and many reviews also say something similar to this.

I fail to see to see what's so transcendental about DS. A lot of the praise about it being some sort of otherworldly experience sounds hyperbolic. To give you an example: that Gamespot review makes the Death Stranding's Like system sound as if it is something profound and innovative – something that will cause players to enter a deep state of contemplation, inspire feelings of gratitude, closeness etc.

But it's a standard Like system, much like the one found on a modern social media platform – there's nothing profound or special about it. When someone up likes something in the virtual world of social media, I doubt many people sit there and ruminate about that one single Like and the human behind it. This train of thought is even less likely as the Likes rack up. Why would it be any different in the virtual world of a video game?

"The combat is mechanically simple--you mostly have to move around a bit and hit them before they hit you--but the sequences are visually and aurally arresting."

Do you think the combat system as it has been described above in a 9/10 review is acceptable from the development unit that made MGSV — a game often described as having one of if not the best third-person action gameplay mechanics in a video game?

 

[Romulus]

Pretty much it'll go down as a solid game via metacritic, but just different.

It did not bomb like many thought/hoped/prayed.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I still think this "divide" is comical. The Kojima stans are going to support it, so are the folks that are just intrigued and interested. The in-betweeners are going to continue to be for or against, and the salty bois are going to continue to hate. That's all fine!

But I still don't see the point of trying to prove anything by the reviews. Or all the opinions. The haters will continue to hate, and the ones looking forward to it will continue to do so. So, what's up? Lmao.

It just feels like a game of tag at this point, lol.

"Hey, what game are you looking forward to? Oh yeah, that one? Well, fuck that game! I think it looks stupid! So do these people! What? The ones that like it? Ah, they're all fanboys! They don't matter! The game sucks!"

^^^^ Imagine that conversation with any game or platform you're looking forward to. That's basically what this all sounds like, lmao.

Embrace opinions, also, don't be surprised if someone's opinion doesn't change. It shouldn't, at least not until they check something out themselves.

This thread may never stop growing with that approach, lol.

 

[Wink]

I do feel for the people who are baffled by the love for Death Stranding, because I had a similar reaction to FFXV that somehow made it over 80 average and some people loved it? And literally every aspect of that game except graphics was the worst execution of it in any AAA game ever, I'd have given that shit a 3 at most... only difference is I acquired that bafflement after I played through the whole fucking mess.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I do feel for the people who are baffled by the love for Death Stranding, because I had a similar reaction to FFXV that somehow made it over 80 average and some people loved it? And literally every aspect of that game except graphics was the worst execution of it in any AAA game ever, I'd have given that shit a 3 at most... only difference is I acquired that bafflement after I played through the whole fucking mess.

Haha... yeah. I experienced the same thing with that game. I didn't enjoy it very much at all, but forced myself to the end and through the DLC (King's edition or something) in search of what made people praise it. Such a weird experience that was. By far the worst game with sky-high production values I have ever played.

 

[HotPocket69]

Man I loved FFXV. Platted it and everything.

Couldn’t tell you fuckall about it though. I just remember having a great time.

 

[Bryank75]

I fail to see to see what's so transcendental about DS. A lot of the praise about it being some sort of otherworldly experience sounds hyperbolic. To give you an example: that Gamespot review makes the Death Stranding's Like system sound as if it is something profound and innovative – something that will cause players to enter a deep state of contemplation, inspire feelings of gratitude, closeness etc.

But it's a standard Like system, much like the one found on a modern social media platform – there's nothing profound or special about it. When someone up likes something in the virtual world of social media, I doubt many people sit there and ruminate about that one single Like and the human behind it. This train of thought is even less likely as the Likes rack up. Why would it be any different in the virtual world of a video game?

"The combat is mechanically simple--you mostly have to move around a bit and hit them before they hit you--but the sequences are visually and aurally arresting."

Do you think the combat system as it has been described above in a 9/10 review is acceptable from the development unit that made MGSV — a game often described as having one of if not the best third-person action gameplay mechanics in a video game?

So, when you describe a Caravaggio... do you just say in a factual way 'seems to be some soldiers with shiny armor taking Jesus somewhere'
Or do you actually take it in and allow yourself to feel something? To connect on a deeper level...

It seems obvious to me that a great deal of care and attention was paid to creating a rugged yet beautiful topography which is in a sense a main character almost in the game, it is the greatest obstacle you face, not Higgs or the BT's or any human.

The long solitary portions of the game are to enjoy the loneliness and silence and to realize and later contrast how things can be so difficult alone compared to when we can work together. Of course everyone knows this on a surface level but to tie it to an experience , a place, sounds and a story allows you to consider its value at a deeper level I feel.

The combat is very like MGS at the end anyway, you get 3D printed concussion rifles and everything... so they are probably just frustrated they didn't have that stuff early. People can't get over guns in games it seems...