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[GHG]

A simple proposal:

How can gaming change and grow if we demand consensus that every new direction attempted is a slam dunk?

It doesn't work like that. You go "off the map" and you are almost guaranteed to lose some percentage of the audience, because not everyone likes change or is adaptable/amenable to them getting something different than they expect.

At some point it needs to be accepted that sometimes partial successes are more valuable than iterative improvements on existing formulae.

It's like when Demon's Souls first released in Japan and they were like "wtf is this?"

Then they released it in the West out of desperation to recoup some costs, not expecting it to do well, and the rest is history.

Just because you personally don't like something it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

 

[Roufianos]

Well, it reviewed better than expected. I have no idea how people thought this game would get a MC of 90+? It's gameplay reveal was the main character walking around and putting up a ladder ffs.

Anyway, still not sure if I'd pick it up. Even positive reviews like Easy Allies make it sound super boring.

 

[Geki-D]

so wait... they review other games without finishing them?

Was going to say the same thing. Isn't it a bit insane that he laments the idea that he actually has to beat a game before scoring it? He makes it sound like the notion isn't normal and they should be expected to score games on partial playthroughs.

 

[iNvid02]

On the one hand games like this should be applauded in a space of annual sequels and safe bets, but on the other hand it's clear Kojima's ego needs to be put back in place if this motherfucker thinks he can make a game about incumberence

Still, sitting back and watching the discussion around it is entertaining

 

[Deleted member 738976]

Now imagine the MC score if it wasn't a precious Sony exclusive.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Was going to say the same thing. Isn't it a bit insane that he laments the idea that he actually has to beat a game before scoring it? He makes it sound like the notion isn't normal and they should be expected to score games on partial playthroughs.

I don't know why reviewers HAVE to finish a game. I would know, after 40 hours, whether I think it's good or not. I would have an OPINION on the game and I'm sure I could rate a game based off that. As long as they say that they are giving a score based on 40 hours I don't see a problem.

How many games have you played a lot of, but didn't finish? Could you rate how you feel that game is? Of course!

 

[Hinedorf]

Based on the reviews it's almost on point with exactly what I thought of every MGS..... garbage dialogue, clunky controls, brilliant concept.

I'll probably hate it and complain more than like it but I'll likely be Day 1 on this

 

[Hostile_18]

I'm not sure at all on this.

Its "riskier" buying a digital game than say seeing a movie your not sure of $10 vs $70 etc.

It looks like a proper marmite game.

 

[Breakage]

From a cursory glance at the reviews (I plan to read them in more detail later on), it seems as if Kojima has opted to double down on the bland open world environment design – one of the main criticisms of MGSV if I'm not mistaken. DS's gameplay doesn't appear to be getting anywhere near the amount of praise MGSV's gameplay received. And I've not read or seen anything that suggests that DS is gonna change the industry with its supposedly genre-defying new experience. It appears as if Kojima and his flashy cast have hyped this game up into something it is not. Even Easy Allies was struggling to stay positive about DS despite giving it an 8 –“rudimentary, repetitive gameplay” is not something you expect to hear about a game from the team behind MGSV.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Was going to say the same thing. Isn't it a bit insane that he laments the idea that he actually has to beat a game before scoring it? He makes it sound like the notion isn't normal and they should be expected to score games on partial playthroughs.

i mean, i get not wanting to play a huge game all the way through in a week.

but then again, ITS HIS FUCKING JOB.

 

[GermanZepp]

i can dig the traversal walking stuff, smoke a joint and enjoy, but the boss fights are looking awful and clunky as fuck

 

[R600]

Kojima so far up his ass its actually incredible more reviewers are not calling him on his bs.

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

All over the place these scores are.

EDIT: That EDGE 'non' review review from their editor. Fuck me!

 

[sdrawkcab]

User reviews are going to tear this game to pieces!

How anyone is giving this game 100/100 or 10/10, or even 9/10 is beyond me.

 

[Psykodad]

This has to be the most backwards thought in gaming today.
I’m going to buy a game I don’t like, because I hope they will make more games I don’t like, someday maybe they will make a game I do like,

Sounds like something you'd do on xbox.

 

[Evil Calvin]

From a cursory glance at the reviews (I plan to read them in more detail later on), it seems as if Kojima has opted to double down on the bland open world environment – one of the main criticisms of MGSV if I'm not mistaken. DS's gameplay doesn't appear to be getting anywhere near the amount of praise MGSV's gameplay received. And I've not read or seen anything that suggests that DS is gonna change the industry with its supposedly genre-defying new experience. It appears as if Kojima and his flashy cast have hyped this game up into something it is not. Even Easy Allies was struggling to stay positive about DS despite giving it an 8 –“rudimentary, repetitive gameplay” is not something you expect to hear about a game from the team behind MGSV.

How does a game that has 'rudimentary and repetitive gameplay' get an 8? Sounds like a score on the Kojima curve.

 

[sdrawkcab]

No wonder people hate "game" journalists.Do these idiots just play like 10 hours of the game and say,okay I like it 9/10,I hated it 7/10. You get paid to REVIEW games! If you hated it so much, finish it and talk about why you hated it.

I have this game pre ordered but I dunno if I'll keep it. I might get pokemon shield or see if black Friday if death stranding drops a few bucks

I think you missed the point. Read between the lines;

Imagine a game journalist is supposed to review a game, and cancels the entire review because he couldn't even bring himself to finishing it.

That, in itself, is a fuckin' review! It says a lot about the game, when I'm sure he has played other games he thought was terrible, but actually tried to finish.

 

[Romulus]

Some ppl at era are on suicide watch now after they're beloved isn't sitting at 90+ meta.

Huh? Everyone said this would bomb. I'm shocked its good, actually.

 

[Romulus]

My goodness, the trolls in here. People just hoping for it fail. What an ambitious life.

 

[Nikana]

So Kojima is the m night shyamalan or however you spell it off the games industry.

Got it.

 

[Psykodad]

so wait... they review other games without finishing them?

Seems like he didn't think it through when posting his tweets.

 

[hunthunt]

Gears of War Metacritic 84, "Microsoft's begin to conquer the world, king is back, best AAA in years, Sony is fucked"

Death Stranding Metacritic 84: "THis is the end of the reign of Sony first party titles, Kojima is a fucking scammer"

 

[dirthead]

HAHAHAH I saw this coming from a mile away.

Dumping this clown was the only good move Konami made in YEARS. He's the reason that MGS5 ended up being such an unfocused mess that went way over budget. He sucks.

The only thing that surprises me is that people weren't all just paid off to lie about this dumpster fire like they are with a lot of too big to fail games. It must be REALLY bad for even these shills to be negative.

 

[RokkanStoned]

I like exploration and traversal, as long as it's fitting some goal, so I assume I'll like the gameplay loop enough. What's more worrying for me is if it's gonna be weird-good or weird-bad storywise. Still currently at 84 metacritic makes it not the big disaster that some are making it. I'll pick up the game and I imagine the multiplayer aspect of it will be especially interesting.

 

[Little Chicken]

I guess The Outer Wilds (not Worlds) will be the 2019 GOTY after all

 

[Lionel Richie]

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but some of you guys are overthinking this. The reviews are pretty much in line with everything we've seen thus far about the game, anyone expecting a slam dunk wasn't paying attention. However, the score isn't bad, the game isn't broken, if you were interested in it you should still be. Kojima is a fantastic creator, I do think he gets a bit too artsy fartsy, but come on, dude created Metal Gear Solid 1-3. I'm going to be play it out of fucking deference lol.

Expecting an automatic GOTY contender in a year that had Resident Evil 2, Devil May Cry V, Fire Emblem and especially Sekiro was a bit misguided. No shame in being pretty good instead of being in the league of those titles.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

I hear Dan went off on it on the Beastcast? Then again, he didn‘t think MGS was a political series, doesn‘t understand the nuances of deeper stories like Evangelion and other more arthouse films and shows and thinks Face/Off is high art.

Wrestling fans can't do subtlety.

 

[Xenon]

This sums up my thoughts well. (Except the buy it part)

Also I predict he will be working on a new MGS within a year.

 

[Clear]

It's like when Demon's Souls first released in Japan and they were like "wtf is this?"

Great example.

And I really have to say its also a fantastic demonstration of how underrated innovation is in gaming. The consensus view is that Dark Souls is the most important title in the series, despite it mostly recycling the approach pioneered in Demon's Souls. The same thing applies regarding Nier and Nier Automata, except that the difference in reception and the time between releases is even bigger.

The case I'm making is that reviewers rather than being at the vanguard of what we should consider the creative forefront of gaming, actually lag behind following public perception/reception. Which is a terrible rebuke to their credentials as commentators and tastemakers.

 

[Gamezone]

That IGN review ruined every hype I had for this game. If the stuff they say in the review is true, this game isn't for me.

 

[dirthead]

Great example.

And I really have to say its also a fantastic demonstration of how underrated innovation is in gaming. The consensus view is that Dark Souls is the most important title in the series, despite it mostly recycling the approach pioneered in Demon's Souls. The same thing applies regarding Nier and Nier Automata, except that the difference in reception and the time between releases is even bigger.

The case I'm making is that reviewers rather than being at the vanguard of what we should consider the creative forefront of gaming, actually lag behind following public perception/reception. Which is a terrible rebuke to their credentials as commentators and tastemakers.

It isn't anything like that. Demons Souls was nothing but gameplay. Every indication is that this game is anything BUT gameplay. You could tell it was going to be like this as soon as that first big trailer came out. They never had anything to show for a reason.

 

[cucuchu]

About what I expected although I don't really see how someone to give this game a 3. Perhaps its just a case of the game not being fit for the reviewer. I could see myself giving a NCAA game or any random sports game a low score simply because I don't really get the appeal of it and it would not be able to enjoy it....hence a low fun factor, hence a low score. Could be the same thing for Death Stranding where the wrong person was assigned to review it. Personally there are enough positive reviews from people that I trust to warrant giving this a go at launch.

 

[dirthead]

About what I expected although I don't really see how someone to give this game a 3. Perhaps its just a case of the game not being fit for the reviewer. I could see myself giving a NCAA game or any random sports game a low score simply because I don't really get the appeal of it and it would not be able to enjoy it....hence a low fun factor, hence a low score. Could be the same thing for Death Stranding where the wrong person was assigned to review it. Personally there are enough positive reviews from people that I trust to warrant giving this a go at launch.

Most review sites are shills. Most scores are WAY too high. I bet it didn't even deserve the 6+ scores.

 

[Sub_Level]

I appreciate Sony funds weird games.

I have no intention of playing it.

 

[Fbh]

A simple proposal:

How can gaming change and grow if we demand consensus that every new direction attempted is a slam dunk?

It doesn't work like that. You go "off the map" and you are almost guaranteed to lose some percentage of the audience, because not everyone likes change or is adaptable/amenable to them getting something different than they expect.

At some point it needs to be accepted that sometimes partial successes are more valuable than iterative improvements on existing formulae.

I obviously haven't played the game but just going off reviews I fail to see how this is changing or "growing" gaming. From the reviews I've seen/read this doesn't strike me as a game trying to make something groundbreaking and not quite sticking the landing, seems like a game that is accomplishing exactly what Kojima had envisioned and not everyone is a fan.

The one thing that is somewhat unique is the indirect multiplayer and even that just seems like an extension of ideas introduced (or at least popularized) by the Souls franchise.

 

[Clear]

The one thing that is somewhat unique is the indirect multiplayer and even that just seems like an extension of ideas introduced (or at least popularized) by the Souls franchise.

The big idea is traversal/orienteering as the primary core activity, and combat/stealth as a secondary. Something that's basically unheard of in the AAA space, because the expectation is that games must be about shooting things.

Its basically the Uncharted 4 situation where people claim that everything outside the combat encounters was worthless because combat is the only thing they value. A circular argument that only works if you accept a faulty premise based on pre-existing bias.

 

[tassletine]

i mean, i get not wanting to play a huge game all the way through in a week.

but then again, ITS HIS FUCKING JOB.

And he did it, changing the word review to 'preview'. They ran out of time, and according to the rules of the embargo couldn't publish a review with a score.

I took the "ran out of enthusiasm thing" to be only dig at how boring the game is, not why he didn't finish the game in time. He wrote a four page preview so he clearly put in the work.

 

[Revolutionary]

Seems like a very deliberately paced game, much like RDR2. Have to be in the right mindset kinda stuff.

As someone who really didn't like RDR2 at launch but slowly came to understand what they were going for, I'm still looking forward to checking it out

 

[tassletine]

The big idea is traversal/orienteering as the primary core activity, and combat/stealth as a secondary. Something that's basically unheard of in the AAA space, because the expectation is that games must be about shooting things.

Its basically the Uncharted 4 situation where people claim that everything outside the combat encounters was worthless because combat is the only thing they value. A circular argument that only works if you accept a faulty premise based on pre-existing bias.

But really he's just doubling down on Breath of The Wild mechanics, which is obviously a huge title. GTA's primary mechanic is also traversal, just not on foot so much. Shadow of The Collosus is another one.
It's nothing original, he's just taking things to extremes, like always.

People thought Uncharted 4 was worthless because it shifted the emphasis away from shooting and climbing and onto the story -- and the story wasn't very good.

Last of Us had a better balance, but the story was better so it worked.
The downtime in that game was enjoyable and enhanced the gameplay, whereas in U3 the dialogue scenes were mostly exposition and just felt like they were getting in the way.

 

[rəddəM]

Don't ever let anyone tell you who you are, what you like or will like.
We're all flawed stupid creatures and I ain't letting reviewer's opinions and tastes that are probably very different from my own to interfere with my possible enjoyment of something.
I'm intrigued by the game because it's different, that is enough for me to try it out at MY OWN RISK.
If I don't like it it's okay but I'll RESPECT it because at least it tried something different while we're sinking in the monetization sea full of trash/incomplete/broken, same old type of games.

 

[888]

Ign makes me wonder if my suspicions of the gameplay being weak is correct.

 

[GHG]

 

[iconmaster]

I liked No Man's Sky, and I bet I would like this.

Too many other games right now, though.

 

[Fbh]

The big idea is traversal/orienteering as the primary core activity, and combat/stealth as a secondary. Something that's basically unheard of in the AAA space, because the expectation is that games must be about shooting things.

Its basically the Uncharted 4 situation where people claim that everything outside the combat encounters was worthless because combat is the only thing they value. A circular argument that only works if you accept a faulty premise based on pre-existing bias.

I mean sure, but then we enter into the old "just because something is different doesn't mean it's good" argument. The game seems boring as hell to me not because it's subverting my expectation of a AAA game having to focus on combat but because slowly making your way to different waypoints while walking through big empty fields doesn't sound appealing. It also doesn't sound like this boring nature of the game is the result of technical or budgetary constraints, sounds like it's exactly what Kojima wanted it to be. Non violent games are nothing new, if the big thing this game is doing is being that while having a big budget and spending lots of cash on celebrities then I don't think it's something that should be praised.

If we are talking about games where Exploration takes the central role it sounds like Breath of the Wild did a much better job at making both traversal more enjoyable as well as creating a world with actual stuff to find in it.

As for Ucharted 4, I can't speak for others but for me it's not about combat being the only thing I value as much as it's about the things outside of it not being very good. There's big open places with almost nothing to do or find in them, there's extremely basic puzzles that don't challenge the player at all (and thus just feel like filler), and then there's platforming sections which are so linear and hold your hand so much that they are impossible to fail. If the game actually offered rewarding exploration, legit good puzzles and skill based platforming I'd be more than happy with combat being a smaller part of the experience.

 

[Aceofspades]

Can we tone down the parody stuff on this site. It was kind of funny at first, but it's getting old now.

I agree, its getting tiring

 

[Zimmy68]

I know people hate them but that was a great review by IGN.
They praise the game's uniqueness but shoot up red flares on things that bothers gamers.
That example of how convoluted the fast travel system works was enough to put me on the "wait for a sale" side of the ledger.
Balancing your load with the controller?
I think Kojima is a genius, he just needs someone, anyone to raise their hands and tell him what will and won't work.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Well this was a plot twist. Shit's always exciting in gaming news. No need for even clickbait headlines.

 

[Vawn]

Same Metacritic score as Xbox exclusive Gears 5.

 

[demigod]

I’m just going to copy/paste my last post from the predictions thread.

I see this game being heavily discounted come Black Friday so they have some numbers to announce.

I thought it would be critically favoured, but bought by nobody.

Now it might not even earn that high review score, and might sell less then I anticipated to the casuals.

They are going to need the hardcore to buy the initial run, or this game might be in big trouble.

I see you're still bitter your precious Gears 5 bombed on NPD. You still want that bet champ or too scared?

 

[Kabelly]

"Big budget QWOP" sounds fun to me.