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[Steroyd]

how giving the option for matchmaking would be an issue?
want to build a team and do the raid? fine then invite your friends.

have no friends and no time to go to forums to find people? hop into matchmaking!

see what's good about different options? they tend to work for different kind of people. i've had the game since launch and i've only been able to do the raid 3 times because i can't seem to find people that either want to join me or want me in their team.

i would very much like matchmaking.
about commitment... random people you find online will have no problem dropping off your team if they feel like it. it's no better than strike playlists.

thank god there are some good people on gaf otherwise i wouldn't even know how the inside of the vog looks like...

I'm frustrated enough with PvP matchmaking as is lol, even strike playlists where I'm level 29 and paired with a level 27 and a level 24, it's rare enough having a level 28 accepted and joins a hard raid through websites on like Neogaf unless he's knowingly being carried or is cheesing the boss for loot.

I understand what you're saying about MM being an option, but I can only see it being a mess based on the current matchmaking system and the results it's produced so far.

 

[Frenden]

How about the class item you're already wearing?

Been there too. My second to last rank-up reward was a new monarchy cloak. One hand cannon, one cloak, one sniper, one mote.

The purchasable class items and blue motes should not be dropping for ranking up IMO.

 

[commish]

Firstly, the odds of getting all newbies would be pretty high for the raid. The raid completion levels are still very low, I'd imagine your average player hasn't even tried it yet. Add MM and you'd have a massive influx of people trying it for the first time. The fact many of us here have completed it means very little. Forums like Gaf are a very tiny percentage of the active Destiny playerbase.

There are lots of reasons against the idea of a traditional MM for the raid.

The obvious ones being it would open the mode up to AFKers and griefers.

It could also sour people's experience of end game content if they have a few MM games in a row with issues such as obnoxious/rude players, griefers, afkers, players without mics, no experienced players making for a long frustrating run that doesn't get anywhere, etc...

Of course there will be times when MM groups pull it off, and I'm not suggesting we should mother players. What I am suggesting is that a traditional MM system for the raid is not the best option.

What we should have instead is a party board in game. A place a person can either make a group and ask for people to join or search for groups. You could add criteria like "beginner's welcome" or "experience only", "mic required" etc...

This would benefit new players much more than MM as they would know for sure what kind of group they were getting into instead of throwing people together blind.

One huge problem with MM is its very much something a player will click on a whim. People will use it without considering the commitment required.

A big part of the raid is learning how the team your with works as much as the content itself, so if players were dropping in and out of a raid over the course of the multiple hours needed for your average run then it could get very frustrating.

The little bit of extra effort required to search a party board and sign up for a group would remove those who would be clicking MM on a whim without really considering the commitment required, and even if they didn't understand it could be explained to them by their team before they leave. The Raid should never be a "drop in/drop out experience".

MM works for certain mods. PvP, strikes, even Nightfall would be fine with MM as long as there was a disclaimer along the lines of "this content is recommended for a full fireteam with voice communication".

For the raid, MM remains a bad idea even if it were optional. A party board system would support players of all types much better and would help cultivate a community much more than MM ever could.

First of all, I'm all for a party board, something like Monster Hunter. I've been saying that for months. Makes so much sense.

Second, you're voicing many of the same complaints (almost exactly, really) that people did for mm in WoW for those raids. And that MM works just fine. The Destiny raid, while fantastic and the game's best content, is actually not that complicated. I think a lot of people aren't giving enough credit to the Destiny playerbase, or giving too much credit to random players found on a forum/the app/destinylfg. And I don't think even 1% of the raid is knowing how your team works... you just do your assigned job and you'll be successful.

Again, give the option, like in WoW. Even if you think it won't work, that's still not a reason not to have it. You can just ignore it.

And I really do think that it would be unlikely to get 6 total newbies into the raid at once. I know - most people haven't done the raid. But how many of those who haven't done the raid (a) actually want to do the raid, (b) are of a high enough level to do the raid and (c) still haven't done the raid? And how many of these non-dedicated, inept players are actually that? Again, going by WoW, it's less than you think, and these raids are a lot more straight forward.

The main problem with the raid would be the final boss and others using the relic. People still can't do that, pre-made group or not.

 

[Daggoth]

Akademik209
Ant26587
Daggothss
WarWolf7
And that random dude from the tower

Cheers guys it was fun even though the glitches conspired against us. I seen some real nice drops next to your names...

I got shards.

Yep, great times. The shards have happened to all of us, they'll come in useful.

In related news, holy shit I like Atheon's Epilogue. Decent void weapon. Is it worth maxing this or Gjallarhorn first?

 

[commish]

Do you happen to have a link to this post or comment?

Hmm, check this link out:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2k8p6f/a_breakdown_of_potential_dps_for_each_raid/

 

[EL CUCO]

Yep, great times. The shards have happened to all of us, they'll come in useful.

In related news, holy shit I like Atheon's Epilogue. Decent void weapon. Is it worth maxing this or Gjallarhorn first?

100% Gjallarhorn

 

[Tovarisc]

Can someone explain to me why in console games like Destiny sniper rifles have zero scope sway, hitscan ammunition and fuckton of auto aim?

 

[todd360]

Oh, cool. I liked her moustache.

She was a proud woman. With a proud moustache!

 

[grimlock33]

your hesitation will be your downfall, guardian!

You had already convinced to give TDYK a shot but watching your VoG stream the other night got me pretty excited to max level this sweet hand cannon. Almost there and I really am liking it. Wanna use my shiney new hawkmoon more but its nice to keep Gjallarhorn or IB in the exotic slot. Maybe it'll be my turn for Fatebringer one day.

 

[figadapaura]

She was a proud woman. With a proud moustache!

Pretty brutal execution though.

 

[Jito]

How is making matchmaking an option for everything a bad idea? You guys are arguing against a possible option that you wouldn't have to use? You can keep coming on here, posting your ranks, lists and getting groups together, matchmaking wouldn't take that away from you. Honestly from my experience, having a Gaf made group isn't an instant win and you're not guaranteed good players. I tried to do a nightfall strike with a Gaffer who was ranks higher than me and he was fucking terrible, I carried him through most of it then he quit.

 

[Zakalwe]

First of all, I'm all for a party board, something like Monster Hunter. I've been saying that for months. Makes so much sense.

Second, you're voicing many of the same complaints (almost exactly, really) that people did for mm in WoW for those raids. And that MM works just fine. The Destiny raid, while fantastic and the game's best content, is actually not that complicated. I think a lot of people aren't giving enough credit to the Destiny playerbase, or giving too much credit to random players found on a forum/the app/destinylfg. And I don't think even 1% of the raid is knowing how your team works... you just do your assigned job and you'll be successful.

Again, give the option, like in WoW. Even if you think it won't work, that's still not a reason not to have it. You can just ignore it.

And I really do think that it would be unlikely to get 6 total newbies into the raid at once. I know - most people haven't done the raid. But how many of those who haven't done the raid (a) actually want to do the raid, (b) are of a high enough level to do the raid and (c) still haven't done the raid? And how many of these non-dedicated, inept players are actually that? Again, going by WoW, it's less than you think, and these raids are a lot more straight forward.

The main problem with the raid would be the final boss and others using the relic. People still can't do that, pre-made group or not.

WoW and other mmorpgs with MM raids have text chat. Destiny will be adding mics to MM (apparently) but it will probably never be mandatory. I think these reasons alone make it an unfair comparison.

And there are more.

Destiny players are probably very different to your average mmo player. Raids in this type of game are a very new experience, a lot of players won't be expecting anything like the challegnes it provides. They're simple for us because we've experienced mmorpg raids and understand those, I don't think your average Destiny player would.

Even having it as an option could could potentially put off lot of players who have no idea what raids are in any context and find the public games frustrating. A party board would give the same benefits as MM, would prevent people from just clickng MM on a whim, and would help foster community and teach new players what joining a raid entails.

I don't think comparing to wow is fair, this is something new in context.

 

[Ambitious]

Hmm, check this link out:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2k8p6f/a_breakdown_of_potential_dps_for_each_raid/

Thanks.

 

[LollipoPReapeR]

Can someone explain to me why in console games like Destiny sniper rifles have zero scope sway, hitscan ammunition and fuckton of auto aim?

It's the future. Magic bullets which crit the target even if you don't aim at them are rife.

 

[shem935]

I would be okay with matchmaking if it enforced a couple requirements.

1. Mic must be connected

2. Must be level 26

3. Allowed for the rating of players that quit early or are afk and actually used that data.

 

[EL CUCO]

I really want to atleast finish the Templar Confluxes on Hard right now but the inlaws are on the way. I would definitely give MM a shot right now, if I had the option.

Having to gather 5 other random people just eats up too much time.

 

[figadapaura]

How is making matchmaking an option for everything a bad idea? You guys are arguing against a possible option that you wouldn't have to use? You can keep coming on here, posting your ranks, lists and getting groups together, matchmaking wouldn't take that away from you. Honestly from my experience, having a Gaf made group isn't an instant win and you're not guaranteed good players. I tried to do a nightfall strike with a Gaffer who was ranks higher than me and he was fucking terrible, I carried him through most of it then he quit.

Have you done the raid?

 

[Hiko]

If I have one exotic armor piece and the rest standard legendary, and I fully level all of them, will I hit level 29?

 

[BraXzy]

Be wary about swapping over things in your vault at the moment guardians. There seem to be a couple of cases of everything in the vault disappearing entirely on people (losing the majority of their armour and weapons). It might be a really rare bug but still, if you can avoid doing it, do so.

 

[Zakalwe]

I really want to atleast finish the Templar Confluxes on Hard right now but the inlaws are on the way. I would definitely give MM a shot right now, if I had the option.

Having to gather 5 other random people just eats up too much time.

I can see why you'd think it would be a great idea, but the raid should never be that conveneiant imo. It should take a little bit of planning to get a group together, that commitment reflects the commitment required to actully beat the content itself.

Many of us can storm through HM because we run with players who can storm through HM. It wouldn't be the same with MM.

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

If I have one exotic armor piece and the rest standard legendary, and I fully level all of them, will I hit level 29?

Yes

 

[Jito]

Have you done the raid?

Nope, I've not got the time to get a group together with my current schedule. Matchmaking would be amazing for me.

 

[EL CUCO]

Be wary about swapping over things in your vault at the moment guardians. There seem to be a couple of cases of everything in the vault disappearing entirely on people (losing the majority of their armour and weapons). It might be a really rare bug but still, if you can avoid doing it, do so.

If shit starts disappearing from my vault or inventory, that'll be a wrap on Destiny for me. I'd trade it in, in a heartbeat.

 

[Hawkian]

Volunteering for the gubernatorial campaign down here for the bulk of the day, but I'll post when I can. If you see me on Destiny that's me on my Vita Remote Play farming or something else mindless when they give us breaks.

sucks because I'd really like to get into this current discussion and back up my arguments with a little research. definitely a topic I feel pretty strongly about and many people are underthinking.

First of all, I'm all for a party board, something like Monster Hunter. I've been saying that for months. Makes so much sense.

Perfect! Great. I'm so glad we were able to end the discussion there-

Again, give the option, like in WoW.

...what. I thought we just agreed a group board would be much better with all of the advantages plus additional ones and none of the downsides, which are significant. what happened?!

It isn't comparable to WoW. Nothing about Destiny is comparable to WoW. Everytime WoW makes a stupid WoW appearance in this non-WoW thread I roll my eyes way too hard for WoW comfort.

How is making matchmaking an option for everything a bad idea? You guys are arguing against a possible option that you wouldn't have to use? You can keep coming on here, posting your ranks, lists and getting groups together, matchmaking wouldn't take that away from you.

... because... I'm thinking about the experience of other players besides myself? Specifically the vast majority of the massive Destiny playerbase?

I am a strong advocate of the necessity and benefit for a grouping board for fireteams and a strong opponent of blind matchmaking. I would utilize neither of these systems, ever. Is it really that hard to conceive that someone posting here would be considering the impact changes to the game would have on people other than themselves?

Honestly from my experience, having a Gaf made group isn't an instant win and you're not guaranteed good players. I tried to do a nightfall strike with a Gaffer who was ranks higher than me and he was fucking terrible, I carried him through most of it then he quit.

what... I... fuck! I can't! The argument you're making here is that because non-matchmade groups can suck sometimes too, matchmaking is a good idea?

 

[Steroyd]

How is making matchmaking an option for everything a bad idea? You guys are arguing against a possible option that you wouldn't have to use? You can keep coming on here, posting your ranks, lists and getting groups together, matchmaking wouldn't take that away from you. Honestly from my experience, having a Gaf made group isn't an instant win and you're not guaranteed good players. I tried to do a nightfall strike with a Gaffer who was ranks higher than me and he was fucking terrible, I carried him through most of it then he quit.

The difference between a raid and a nightfall is that Nightfalls have elemental burns so even a level 30 can get murdered in 2 shots in the right conditions, for Raids there is no elemental burn and every level lower than the requirement makes it noticeably tougher, hell for raid on normal mode it's preferred that you're level 27/28, levels higher then the game's recommendation or you're considered a burden, or "that guy" any lower than that (Raid unlocks at level 24, iirc) and you'll be pretty much told to fuck off.

 

[Zakalwe]

Nope, I've not got the time to get a group together with my current schedule. Matchmaking would be amazing for me.

What's your current schedule?

I see you on these forums enough. You could easily use the time you spend here to ask for players with similar schedules to raid with. It's not beyond your grasp at all.

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

Nope, I've not got the time to get a group together with my current schedule. Matchmaking would be amazing for me.

You can make a post "who wants to do a normal raid at X pm EST/ Y PST? I am a lvl Z hunter with blah blah blah
1) your name
2)
3)"

 

[figadapaura]

Nope, I've not got the time to get a group together with my current schedule. Matchmaking would be amazing for me.

How long would you have free to play if you don't even have time to get a group together?

 

[X-Frame]

Damn I really wish there were audio options. I want to turn the music down so I can play my own music without 2 different songs playing at the same time.

 

[Tovarisc]

No, haven't tried PvP yet. Will do so shortly.

Don't get me wrong, Suros Regime is superior weapon in every possible way in PvP. For some weird reason I just find Vex more fun even when you need hit more and play better in general to perform as well as you would with Suros Regime.

 

[Zakalwe]

Don't get me wrong, Suros Regime is superior weapon in every possible way in PvP. For some weird reason I just find Vex more fun even when you need hit more and play better in general to perform as well as you would with Suros Regime.

The same reasoning with me for VoC and TLW.

 

[patchday]

First of all, I'm all for a party board, something like Monster Hunter. I've been saying that for months. Makes so much sense.

....

The main problem with the raid would be the final boss and others using the relic. People still can't do that, pre-made group or not.

Exactly. Now imagine that random has the relic. He's not counting down when hes gonna fire at the templar. He's not counting down when the buff wears opff while fighting Atheon.

Hell, you cant even coordinate with the guy to figure out if he is going to grab the relic

It would be a disaster

Now- if the randoms all have mics then that could work. So if they added a system where a host starts a party and has the power to boot randoms that have no mic they can work good. So yes, I agree with you if it has a good lobby/party system! But it cant be sloppy like those strike missions. That system is the worst

 

[Jito]

Lol you guys are all quick to jump down my throat over extra options in game. Look I don't know when I have time to play games for long sessions due to my job, having other things to do other than play games all the time etc. I'd rather just be able to jump on matchmaking/LFG board in game when I do have time, instead of posting online and waiting/hoping people respond. Waiting about was the main thing I took from the experience when trying to get a strike team of 2 people together and it was pointless in the end as they sucked, I imagine it takes even longer for 5 other players. It's a needless effort for me to play part of the game that could easily be an option for those of us that can't make play dates and set times to play the raid.

 

[Hawkian]

I would be okay with matchmaking if it enforced a couple requirements.

1. Mic must be connected

2. Must be level 26

3. Allowed for the rating of players that quit early or are afk and actually used that data.

This would be fine, it's just kind of a convoluted workaround to implement a matchmaking system when a group posting board would offer all the same advantages but also allow people without mics/lower levels/etc. to get in on content they wanted to do with the appropriate disclaimers.

 

[EL CUCO]

I can see why you'd think it would be a great idea, but the raid should never be that conveneiant imo. It should take a little bit of planning to get a group together, that commitment reflects the commitment required to actully beat the content itself.

Many of us can storm through HM because we run with players who can storm through HM. It wouldn't be the same with MM.

I totally understand what you mean. However, I don't see why Bungie shouldn't atleast provide the option. It would definitely be a gamble, but that's no different than anything else in this game lol

I can already imagine myself saying "anybody got a mic? ANYBODY GOT A FUGGIN MIC?!?! IF I DON'T HEAR SOME MICS I'M BACKING OUT, BITCHES!"

 

[figadapaura]

Lol you guys are all quick to jump down my throat over extra options in game. Look I don't know when I have time to play games for long sessions due to my job, having other things to do other than play games all the time etc. I'd rather just be able to jump on matchmaking/LFG board in game when I do have time, instead of posting online and waiting/hoping people respond. Waiting about was the main thing I took from the experience when trying to get a strike team of 2 people together and it was pointless in the end as they sucked, I imagine it takes even longer for 5 other players. It's a needless effort for me to play part of the game that could easily be an option for those of us that can't make play dates and set times to play the raid.

There's probably more people wanting to do the raid regularly than strikes.

 

[Ambitious]

One shard until level 30. No gear to dismantle. No marks to buy gear. Won't be at home for the next three days and I'm about to leave in 30 minutes.
Currently sitting in the Mothyards, waiting for the public event.

 

[Zakalwe]

Lol you guys are all quick to jump down my throat over extra options in game. Look I don't know when I have time to play games for long sessions due to my job, having other things to do other than play games all the time etc. I'd rather just be able to jump on matchmaking/LFG board in game when I do have time, instead of posting online and waiting/hoping people respond. Waiting about was the main thing I took from the experience when trying to get a strike team of 2 people together and it was pointless in the end as they sucked, I imagine it takes even longer for 5 other players. It's a needless effort for me to play part of the game that could easily be an option for those of us that can't make play dates and set times to play the raid.

So you don't ever know you'll have 3 hours or so you could dedicate to a raid in advance?

 

[patchday]

There's probably more people wanting to do the raid regularly than strikes.

+1, I know I avoid those strikes like the plague. Can only recall doing it twice out of all of my play hours. It's just a lazy system. Unlike MAss effect 3 multiplayer, you cant have a host that forms the party and has the chance to evaluate all of the members before they launch

 

[Jito]

So you don't have 3 hours at any point this week you could dedicate to a raid?

I never said I didn't. I said I don't know when I do.

 

[Steroyd]

Lol you guys are all quick to jump down my throat over extra options in game. Look I don't know when I have time to play games for long sessions due to my job, having other things to do other than play games all the time etc. I'd rather just be able to jump on matchmaking/LFG board in game when I do have time, instead of posting online and waiting/hoping people respond. Waiting about was the main thing I took from the experience when trying to get a strike team of 2 people together and it was pointless in the end as they sucked, I imagine it takes even longer for 5 other players. It's a needless effort for me to play part of the game that could easily be an option for those of us that can't make play dates and set times to play the raid.

This is what I don't get, you're talking about time spent getting a team together but the raids, unlike strikes requires significantly more co-ordination and you'd spend a significantly more time not progressing through the raid itself with randoms at varying levels, with higher chance of quitters, made worse if they don't have mics for some reason, plus it would take longer to learn the mechanics if at all.

 

[phen0m24]

One shard until level 30. No gear to dismantle. No marks to buy gear. Won't be at home for the next three days and I'm about to leave in 30 minutes.
Currently sitting in the Mothyards, waiting for the public event.

Destiny Patroller app works well for that.

 

[gdt]

How can I keep getting shards for leveling up? There's nothing I can get rewards for anymore. Bought the legendaries and sharded them too. How can I rack up shards this time of the week? Besides dailies of course.

 

[Hawkian]

You had already convinced to give TDYK a shot but watching your VoG stream the other night got me pretty excited to max level this sweet hand cannon. Almost there and I really am liking it. Wanna use my shiney new hawkmoon more but its nice to keep Gjallarhorn or IB in the exotic slot. Maybe it'll be my turn for Fatebringer one day.

Hehe, in the raid, when I switch from Hawkmoon to TDYK to be able to use Gjallar, I REALLY feel the difference in stopping power and damage. TDYK feels a bit weak for a little while, but then by the end of the raid it has saved my life a couple times and I'm back to loving it.

Lol you guys are all quick to jump down my throat over extra options in game. Look I don't know when I have time to play games for long sessions due to my job, having other things to do other than play games all the time etc. I'd rather just be able to jump on matchmaking/LFG board in game when I do have time, instead of posting online and waiting/hoping people respond. Waiting about was the main thing I took from the experience when trying to get a strike team of 2 people together and it was pointless in the end as they sucked, I imagine it takes even longer for 5 other players. It's a needless effort for me to play part of the game that could easily be an option for those of us that can't make play dates and set times to play the raid.

LFG Board! Easy peasy. If you don't want to dwell on the pros/cons of each that's totally fine, it's not exactly exciting stuff to ponder over. But I have, and the LFG board is the one you want of the two "options" you seem to be arguing are equally viable.

Per your points about being able to raid... I don't know if I've seen you post in here looking for a group for the raid, but I've seen others form quite quickly, and sometimes groups post just looking for one or two. Furthermore, you completely lose me with the comments of "people sucked anyway so there was no point," as if matchmaking would come within a dozen light-years of alleviating that.

I totally understand what you mean. However, I don't see why Bungie shouldn't atleast provide the option. It would definitely be a gamble, but that's no different than anything else in this game lol

I can already imagine myself saying "anybody got a mic? ANYBODY GOT A FUGGIN MIC?!?! IF I DON'T HEAR SOME MICS I'M BACKING OUT, BITCHES!"

You may not see why but there are really good reasons! Instead of rehashing them, could I instead ask what your reasons are for opposing an in-game LFG/group posting board instead?

 

[Zakalwe]

I never said I didn't. I said I don't know when I do.

I said "in advance".

I've seen groups form for a raid within minutes within this very thread. If you have a few hours now you could probably spend most of them raiding if you could be bothered to ask people.

Try something:

Next time you have 3 hours or so come to this thread. Post your details, say you're looking for a raid group to go ASAP. It's very likely you'll find one.

As Fig said, there are probably more people here looking to raid than to strike.

 

[Ambitious]

Destiny Patroller app works well for that.

Yes, I've memorized a pretty good route I'm always following when I need to do public events

 

[Overdoziz]

Wait a minute...

 

[purg3]

How can I keep getting shards for leveling up? There's nothing I can get rewards for anymore. Bought the legendaries and sharded them too. How can I rack up shards this time of the week? Besides dailies of course.

Dailies on multiple characters along with public events. Or run the raid on multiple characters and you will be swimming in shards.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

Lol you guys are all quick to jump down my throat over extra options in game. Look I don't know when I have time to play games for long sessions due to my job, having other things to do other than play games all the time etc. I'd rather just be able to jump on matchmaking/LFG board in game when I do have time, instead of posting online and waiting/hoping people respond. Waiting about was the main thing I took from the experience when trying to get a strike team of 2 people together and it was pointless in the end as they sucked, I imagine it takes even longer for 5 other players. It's a needless effort for me to play part of the game that could easily be an option for those of us that can't make play dates and set times to play the raid.

One thing about MM in raids is that it would have to be a full on option, not just "raids now have MM". It has the potential to hurt as much as help if they don't do it right. When a fellow gaffer gets disconnected, I don't want MM filling his/her spot with a random. And since it has to be reworked instead of just using the existing strike version of MM, they might as well take the time and do it right with a full feature set of MM options (mic req/level req and other features people are asking for).

 

[Jito]

I said "in advance".

I guess you won't be raiding then.

No actually you went back and edited your post. Don't try to be smart.

Try something:

Next time you have 3 hours or so come to this thread. Post your details, say you're looking for a raid group to go ASAP. It's very likely you'll find one.

As Fig said, there are probably more people here looking to raid than to strike.

"very likely" I like those odds, Ok we will see how it goes then.

Hehe, in the raid, when I switch from Hawkmoon to TDYK to be able to use Gjallar, I REALLY feel the difference in stopping power and damage. TDYK feels a bit weak for a little while, but then by the end of the raid it has saved my life a couple times and I'm back to loving it.

LFG Board! Easy peasy. If you don't want to dwell on the pros/cons of each that's totally fine, it's not exactly exciting stuff to ponder over. But I have, and the LFG board is the one you want of the two "options" you seem to be arguing are equally viable.

Per your points about being able to raid... I don't know if I've seen you post in here looking for a group for the raid, but I've seen others form quite quickly, and sometimes groups post just looking for one or two. Furthermore, you completely lose me with the comments of "people sucked anyway so there was no point," as if matchmaking would come within a dozen light-years of alleviating that.

That's not what I'm saying with matchmaking, I'm suggesting that I'm happy to take that chance of people being shit, just like in strikes and PVP, because that way I can quickly get into the Raid.

I just don't get the aversion to an extra option in the game for those of us who want it, it wouldn't effect you guys at all.

One thing about MM in raids is that it would have to be a full on option, not just "raids now have MM". It has the potential to hurt as much as help if they don't do it right. When a fellow gaffer gets disconnected, I don't want MM filling his/her spot with a random. And since it has to be reworked instead of just using the existing strike version of MM, they might as well take the time and do it right with a full feature set of MM options (mic req/level req and other features people are asking for).

Yeh I agree, they should do it properly with loads of options if they're going to ever add it.