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[darkwing]

Have they tested unpatched games yet? Just kill my hopes softly, DF.

we have known for weeks from Sony that unpatched games will have no improvements

 

[spwolf]

Have they tested unpatched games yet? Just kill my hopes softly, DF.

0 difference for unpatched games.

 

[DieH@rd]

Have they tested unpatched games yet? Just kill my hopes softly, DF.

Yes. There are no changes.

 

[dead monkey uk]

If you already own a PS4? Not worth it. If you don't have a PS4 yet, absolutely pick the Pro over the Slim.

I am upgrading and I have a 1080p screen and no intension of buying 4K for a few years. We have already seen games like Tomb Raider, Mass Effect and Paragon having 1080p enhanced graphic modes announced. Also the Pro will put an end to playing PS4 games sub 1080p, i.e. BF1, UE4 multiplayer. Early reports also speak of super sampling benefits on 1080p screens.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Have they tested unpatched games yet? Just kill my hopes softly, DF.

Yep, same performance profiles.

I don't know how Sony did it, but they muted the entire Polaris architecture in order to ape Pitcairn

 

[HStallion]

I think the only thing so far that I've seen that I'm not a fan of is the fan noise. Otherwise seems like Sony gave us some great bang for the buck.

 

[flozuki]

I don't think changing the intensity of motion blur is going to make the motion blur look any better.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=208771878&postcount=93

Uargh, thanks. Just read about it and thought they would have fixed it completely :-(

 

[Shredderi]

If Bloodborne were taking advantage of the Pro, upgrading for me would be a no brainer but I think I might hold out for a bit.

This. I do want it, but I can't justify the purchase right now. If I had a steady job then it would be a no-brainer along with a new tv, but since I have very limited finances I can't pull the trigger on it. A well done Bloodborne patch would make me throw all reason and caution to the wind and go pick it up day one though.

 

[sajj316]

we have known for weeks from Sony that unpatched games will have no improvements

Correct. It was part of the design specs for Pro to ensure 100% compatibility. Me personally, I think it's the wrong design choice and figured Sony would find a way to make it work. Hoping a future firmware update can "unlock" the performance once they figure out a creative solution.

 

[Always-honest]

Have they tested unpatched games yet? Just kill my hopes softly, DF.

Let me reassure you: No improvements there. Since it has been stated numerous times.

 

[Carn82]

Why wouldn't it? doesn't have to at this point

Oh dont get me wrong, I'm not expecting anything from Bungie at the moment.

 

[Loudninja]

Correct. It was part of the design specs for Pro to ensure 100% compatibility. Me personally, I think it's the wrong design choice and figured Sony would find a way to make it work. Hoping a future firmware update can "unlock" the performance once they figure out a creative solution.

I think people already explain why it would be an issue.

 

[panda-zebra]

Still no reason to go from OG PS4 > Pro without a 4K TV.

For a lot of us on GAF, this may be the first truly 1080p console, in which frame rate doesn't suffer excessively for it

neogaf.gif

 

[Inuhanyou]

Did you play 900p games on a 720p TV too?

720p was largely skipped over in favor of 1080p fairly quickly, so its not as if the comparison even holds.

People will be more than fine with their 1080p televisions, stop trying to sell 4K TV's.

 

[Equanimity]

If you already own a PS4? Not worth it. If you don't have a PS4 yet, absolutely pick the Pro over the Slim.

Why not? There is a substantial difference between 900p and 1440p. Every Pro comes with a 1TB HDD unlike the OG model. It also has better streaming and capture capabilities and packs a refinded Dualshock 4.

 

[Always-honest]

Why not? There is a substantial difference between TF2 at 900p and 1440p.

Some can't see that though. So for them it's not worth it. That's fine.

 

[Wonko_C]

Correct. It was part of the design specs for Pro to ensure 100% compatibility. Me personally, I think it's the wrong design choice and figured Sony would find a way to make it work. Hoping a future firmware update can "unlock" the performance once they figure out a creative solution.

Yep, it's especially weird seeing as the Xbox One S's small spec bump improves performance in games even if just a little bit without the games needing patches like on PC, it just works. Scorpio will probably do the same aside from games needing patches to tell the games to render at higher resolution.

 

[Carn82]

Yep, it's especially weird seeing as the Xbox One S's small spec bump improves performance in games even if just a little bit without the games needing patches like on PC, it just works. Scorpio will probably do the same aside from games needing patches to tell the games to render at higher resolution.

to quote myself:

It's not really strange; I think they just draw a pretty strict line. You either use 'regular PS4 mode' for your unpatched games, or the 'Pro' mode for a patched game. Cerny spoke about not wanting any undesirable side effects for existing games, so they pretty much 'emulate' a regular PS4 mode.

Think about it this way.

Regular PS4
Game engine uses memory register A.

PS4 Pro mode
Patched game engine users memory register A and A+

How would an unpatched game know how to use the extra A+ register?
Or what if the game is balanced for regular PS4 CPU speed, what would happen if the CPU-cycles suddenly gets processed much faster?

Sure, you could solve a lot of these problems with somethinkg like an API layer that solves some of those issues, but my guess is that Sony didnt want to invest in that. I think it does work on the Xbox One S because Microsoft use a few more virtualisation layers in their OS-stack.

it's not just the architecture or hardware. Xbox One's operating system is basically a version of windows 10 and a hypervisor that runs virtual machines. The games load into a VM, that again communicates through (mostly DirectX) with the windows OS. I'm not familiar with all the inner workings, but this setup allows Microsoft more scalability than Sony's setup (probably at a performance cost).

Also, not all software (and hardware, for that matter) is build for scalability. Building support for scalability usually also comes at a performance hit, because you need to balance things out somewhere.

 

[Confused Cheeseburger]

Hoping for some more nitty gritty comparisons. Would like more info on 1080p options. Somehow, I feel like I don't know much more. Like, do UC4 and R&C have downsampling? What are dishonored 2's options? What is BF1 really running (considering the patch isn't out yet). Still more questions than I would like, but still there day 1.

 

[makingmusic476]

The OP says you transfer files from a ps4 to a Pro by connecting both to a router via ethernet. Can you just connect the two via ethernet directly?

 

[LordOfChaos]

The big surprise is that Naughty Dog's Uncharted 4 Pro patch actually seems to be using conventional upscaling, though admittedly it does avoid most of the usual artefacts owing to its excellent temporal super-sampling anti-aliasing technique. However, base resolution is in the region of 1440p and while it remains a beautiful game, it does look a little soft on a 4K screen. The game's multiplayer section gets an upgrade though, it's boosted from the standard model's 900p to full 1080p.

It's much the same story with Titanfall 2 - it retains the dynamic scaler of the standard PS4 title, but tops out at 1440p resolution (and to be fair, it rarely seems to dip lower). Again, TSAA really helps here in avoiding upscaling shimmer but it is clearly softer than checkerboarding results.

This was a little surprising as they said - I wonder how much extra work it is to use the checkerboard rendering assisting hardware, vs the conventional upscaler. And what the performance cost is.

 

[VincentMatts]

Yep, it's especially weird seeing as the Xbox One S's small spec bump improves performance in games even if just a little bit without the games needing patches like on PC, it just works. Scorpio will probably do the same aside from games needing patches to tell the games to render at higher resolution.

Yeah Phil pretty much said as much. Games that are designed with dynamic resolutions like halo5 will pretty much stick to 1080/60 on Scorpio. I prefer that. You have the better HW, use it.

 

[Frostburn]

Correct. It was part of the design specs for Pro to ensure 100% compatibility. Me personally, I think it's the wrong design choice and figured Sony would find a way to make it work. Hoping a future firmware update can "unlock" the performance once they figure out a creative solution.

I'm (foolishly) hoping the same thing, figure out a way to give older un-patched games some access to the improved hardware without breaking things. Worked on the Xbox One S, games that drop below 30FPS or their target 60 would be an easy fix on the PS4 Pro, I don't need visual enhancements but stable frame rates or faster loading would be a huge plus and give Sony something else to brag about.

 

[Always-honest]

Does anyone have a link to where ND said they are going to look at the Pro mode in more depth/ make more pro improvements for UC4?

Uncharted 4 is undergoing retooling ("they're taking another look at rendering strategies," says Cerny) but of the 13 games revealed, nine used checkerboarding. Days Gone, Call of Duty Infinite Warfare, Rise of the Tomb Raider and Horizon Zero Dawn all render up to 2160p with checkerboarding, super-sampling down to 1080p on full HD displays, while the Lara Croft title has multiple modes with explicit 1080p support. Mark Cerny is keen to point out that developers are free to use the checkerboarding tech as they see fit, so we will see many different variations and interpretations.

Link

Published on 20/10/2016

So, maybe what the patch is now is final, or there is more to come for Uncharted 4.

 

[schwabdizzle]

I cant tell a difference in Titanfall 2. Looks the same to me.

 

[Wonko_C]

to quote myself:

Thanks, I only skimmed through the thread. So basically even though both consoles use X86 architecture, only the Xbox One is more "PC-like" even down to using Windows 10 as its OS. The PS4/Pro still works more like a "traditional" console.

 

[Always-honest]

I cant tell a difference in Titanfall 2. Looks the same to me.

That's fine. It's not worth the upgrade for you then. Simple.

 

[Carn82]

Thanks, I only skimmed through the thread. So basically even though both consoles use X86 architecture, only the Xbox One is more "PC-like" even down to using Windows 10 as its OS. The PS4/Pro still works more like a "traditional" console.

That's pretty much my conclusion. Makes sense though, with Microsoft pushing Windows to all kinds of platforms and the UWP strategy.

 

[mcdomination]

I cant tell a difference in Titanfall 2. Looks the same to me.

In person or YouTube vids on your phone?

 

[Latimer]

Why not? There is a substantial difference between 900p and 1440p. Every Pro comes with a 1TB HDD unlike the OG model. It also has better streaming and capture capabilities and packs a refinded Dualshock 4.

Because at 1080p, I don't think it's worth spending $400. For 4k TV owners, I say go right ahead.

 

[TGO]

We waited until today for what? so far all this info is just repeating what we already know.

 

[jett]

Link

Published on 20/10/2016

So, maybe what the patch is now is final, or there is more to come for Uncharted 4.

I think he's just referring to ND not using checkerboard rendering.

 

[LordOfChaos]

This right here is why their reason for not making an elite controller that gave some players an advantage and creating 'haves and have nots' made no sense...The Pro already does create slight advantages when something can't stick to its framerate.

Plus, third party controllers existed anyways.

 

[Nachtfalke]

Running Infamous Second Son with 60fps would be stellar. Need more focus on that how it helds it's framerate target.

 

[Gutek]

Destiny 1, probably not.
Destiny 2: very likely given all the Sony exclusives and such.

Every game going forward will be getting the Pro treatment.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Running Infamous Second Son with 60fps would be stellar. Need more focus on that how it helds it's framerate target.

considering first light seemed to run between 55-60 in the video, I would assume second son would be a little lower down as first light had a slightly better performance profile.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Because at 1080p, I don't think it's worth spending $400. For 4k TV owners, I say go right ahead.

Who is this for? A current owner or a new owner?

 

[TGO]

Because at 1080p, I don't think it's worth spending $400. For 4k TV owners, I say go right ahead.

This is not true, I say it depends on the game.
Rise of the Tomb Raider offers a lot more in 1080p then it does in 4k, there is no amount of pixels 4k can offer to make up for what its missing from the 1080p enhanced mode.
And those downsampled games should look super sharp and clean and no upscaled imagine looks better then a downsampled one, unless its native 4k + enhanced graphics.

 

[Carn82]

Every game going forward will be getting the Pro treatment.

True! But "going forward" could be a bare minimum option; or maybe a bit more.

 

[Latimer]

Who is this for? A current owner or a new owner?

Current only, like I said in my original post.

This is not true, I say it depends on the game.
Rise of the Tomb Raider offers a lot more in 1080p then it does in 4k, there is no amount of pixels 4k can offer to make up for what its missing from the 1080p enhanced mode.

If you think that's worth spending $400 on then go ahead, I'd rather keep my PS4 in this instance.

 

[Curufinwe]

You'll get steadier frame rates and better IQ. Much better in some cases.

Is that worth $400 to you?

If it's worth somehtig less than that to you, no reaosn why you have to go out and by now. Wait till next year sometime, when it's cheaper. You cna bet your ass it'll see a discount when Scorpio hits.

I don't know if it's worth $400 to me, but if I can sell my old PS4 for $150 I think it's worth $250 to me.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

considering first light seemed to run between 55-60 in the video, I would assume second son would be a little lower down as first light had a slightly better performance profile.

I noticed in PS Meeting videos that Infamous Last Light packs more and denser particle effects on PS4 PRO. I wonder if those are by default in any mode on PS4 PRO or just for a certain mode, what are the other improved or added graphical effects and will Infamous Second Son benefit from it too.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Why not? There is a substantial difference between 900p and 1440p. Every Pro comes with a 1TB HDD unlike the OG model. It also has better streaming and capture capabilities and packs a refinded Dualshock 4.

More quiet than the OG model as well. And there are games offering better frame rate and more detail.

That might not be enough for some to take the plunge, which is fine, but to say there are no benefits for 1080p owners is plain wrong.

 

[N00b Saibot]

I hope they test NBA 2k17, patch notes said native 4k 60fps.

This..

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

Why not? There is a substantial difference between 900p and 1440p. Every Pro comes with a 1TB HDD unlike the OG model. It also has better streaming and capture capabilities and packs a refinded Dualshock 4.

for me its just not worth spending 400 for some small improvements and I already upgraded my harddrive to 2gb with that samsung portable drive. i spent my 400 on a gtx 1070 and called it a day. not buying pro or scorpio. just not worth it atm.

More quiet than the OG model as well. And there are games offering better frame rate and more detail.

That might not be enough for some to take the plunge, which is fine, but to say there are no benefits for 1080p owners is plain wrong.

but are the few benefits really worth 400 tho? when that 400 could be spent on more games?

 

[Lister]

I don't know if it's worth $400 to me, but if I can sell my old PS4 for $150 I think it's worth $250 to me.

Heh, and people complain PC gaming is expensive. The equivalent upgrade on PC would be less than $200, and that's not counting possibly selling that older GPU on ebay, and assuming you don't already own a GTX 960/970 equivalent.

 

[Curufinwe]

Heh, and people complain PC gaming is expensive. The equivalent upgrade on PC would be less than $200, and that's not counting possibly selling that older GPU on ebay, and assuming you don't already own a GTX 960/970 equivalent.

PC gaming is expensive. To upgrade my PC I'd need new RAM, a new motherboard, a new CPU and a new GPU.

 

[Always-honest]

I think he's just referring to ND not using checkerboard rendering.

yes that could be the case. Not sure.

 

[Latimer]

PC gaming is expensive. To upgrade my PC I'd need new RAM, a new motherboard, a new CPU and a new GPU.

To upgrade my PC i'd only need to change my GPU, my 3570k is still going stroooooong.

But yea PC gaming is still more expensive, this is a fact.

 

[The Elite]

We really need more tests in general. More games and SSHD and SSD speed tests.