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[SlimySnake]

Then there’s Ratchet, Spider-Man, both Last of Us, both Horizons, Lords of the Fallen, etc.

His point is there should be a balance in reporting these things, and while I agree with you, I agree with him as well. Guess what? The games with poor implementations of PSSR have taken center stage here. It’s called controversy and it works.

The balance is not there because they frontloaded their coverage with high quality PS5 first party games. Had they included these games in the original review, there wouldnt be an imbalance now.

If anything, their positive initial coverage likely sold this to buyers who did not know how poor these big AAA games are performing.

Do you have a PS5 Pro?

yes.

 

[Kangx]

It’s using what appears to be one of the lower quality versions of TSR being used to upscale to 4K, which is not much better then basic TAAU. The benefit is extremely low overhead for TSR in that mode.

Is that so. I can't wrath my head around this. That is a lot of pixel difference but clearly, high pixel count helps with image stability.

 

[Zathalus]

Doesnt matter when the image is sharper than the previous mode. The issue here is the flickering on reflections and shadows.

It absolutely does matter. Sure the 1080p upscaled image looks sharper, but a 1440p (or 1620p DRS) upscaled image would be even sharper still. The Pro is up to 45% faster then the base and while PSSR has a higher computational cost vs TSR, it shouldn't tank resolution that much. It looks like the developer just didn't want to deal with DRS on top of the other issues so just selected 1080p and called it a day.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Growing pains were expected (at least, I expected them). DLSS definitely had its share! Of the list, only Silent Hill 2 is what I’m sincerely waiting to see fixed.

The balance is not there because they frontloaded their coverage with high quality PS5 first party games. Had they included these games in the original review, there wouldnt be an imbalance now.

If anything, their positive initial coverage likely sold this to buyers who did not know how poor these big AAA games are performing.

Who? DF?

Did they just cover less problematic games prior to launch?

 

[Luipadre]

It absolutely does matter. Sure the 1080p upscaled image looks sharper, but a 1440p (or 1620p DRS) upscaled image would be even sharper still. The Pro is up to 45% faster then the base and while PSSR has a higher computational cost vs TSR, it shouldn't tank resolution that much. It looks like the developer just didn't want to deal with DRS on top of the other issues so just selected 1080p and called it a day.

As long as the results on screen is good, i dont care about internal resolutions, but this does seem like a lazy patch overall.

 

[SlimySnake]

There are dozens of improved games either through patches or through game boosting with frame rate and DRS benefits, the system offers a significantly improved experience over the base model in a lot of games.
There is no pattern at all.
Some developers didn't even have the time to test their patches otherwise Bloober shouldn't have released such update at all and some things can be rough because it's early days. That is really all.

How can you say that when literally every single game with RTGI is having issues with PSSR reconstruction. When every single game running at sub 1080p resolution using PSSR to upscale is introducing these shimmering artifcats.

The only ones that are fine are games that are not using RTGI. And are upsacling from higher resolutions like Demon Souls, TLOU, Spiderman, FF7.

RTGI, Lumen, and other RT effects are the future. The fact that PSSR cant handle them is an actual pattern and im shocked that you cant see this.

 

[XXL]

yes.

If so, you should know its not a pattern, these games are the exception.

Most of the Pro enhancements are great and as some have stated DF is starting with the broken ones for a myriad of different reasons.

 

[Zathalus]

We should be glad they stuck with TSR instead of FSR2 like some UE5 built games have done, since TSR is still more expensive than FSR2.

Its not always more expensive, it has several quality versions that the developer can select. The quality setting is different from the internal rendering resolution and can scale from low (very basic, high performance) up to cinematic (extremely high quality, near DLSS at times, but the performance overhead is massive, mostly unfeasible).

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Broken games should get more coverage than games that don't need as much attention. I get that some are using this as ammunition to dismiss Pro and PSSR entirely, but that doesn't mean DF is doing anything wrong in pointing out issues like these.

No, all games deserve attention

And if we know SH2 is working on a patch what’s the point of this premature video analysis?

 

[DeepEnigma]

minority? SH2, Jedi Survivor, Dragon's Dogma 2, Dragon Age, Outlaws, AW2 are not a minority. it's a pattern.

Outside of DG2 and DA, Only pattern I notice are UE games.

 

[balls of snow]

Nope. Go remake the game again Bloober.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I’m not surprised SH2 had issues. I’m only surprised it took them so long to publicly acknowledge it! But then, maybe they had NDAs and whatnot to adhere to.

I get people being frustrated, as this is what happens with new tech. But, sometimes that’s the cost of early adoption.

 

[Kangx]

Dragon age, Dragon dogma and outlaws has some shimmering issue with RT, but it look significantly sharper and run much better unlike these patches here which barely look any sharper and look the same.

For example, on dragon dogma, you can play the balance mode with comparable frame rate to the performance mode on the base ps5, the benefits is, it look a tons better like significantly better.

 

[adamsapple]

Outside of DG2 and DA, Only pattern I notice are UE games.

AW2 is not Unreal.

Like Slimy said, it's mostly games with RT stuff and which have a low base resolution to up-scale from.

 

[DeepEnigma]

AW2 is not Unreal.

Like Slimy said, it's mostly games with RT stuff and which have a low base resolution to up-scale from.

Ah yes, forgot they use their Northlight engine.

 

[SlimySnake]

Good god. just got to the part where he runs the game unpatched which uses the previous TSR solution but also the extra GPU power on the PS5 to run at 1620p to max out the DRS range. Same thing in Performance mode.

And guess what? it looks fantastic. No issues whatsoever. So they couldve literally left it unpatched and it wouldve looked and run much better because TSR wouldve been upscaling from a much higher resolution.

So dumb.

 

[Topher]

No, all games deserve attention

And if we know SH2 is working on a patch what’s the point of this premature video analysis?

As a consumer, I am going to want to know about games that have problems first. There is nothing "premature" about this analysis. What was premature was the patch itself. Let's not pretend these guys released this patch unaware of these problems.

 

[SlimySnake]

Outside of DG2 and DA, Only pattern I notice are UE games.

outlaws has the same shimmering issues.

So RE Engine, Frostbite, Snow Drop, UE4, UE5 all have the same issues.

FF7 Rebirth runs on UE4 and doesnt have this issue? Why? No RTGI, RT shadows, reflections or RTAO that are causing these issues.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Good god. just got to the part where he runs the game unpatched which uses the previous TSR solution but also the extra GPU power on the PS5 to run at 1620p to max out the DRS range. Same thing in Performance mode.

And guess what? it looks fantastic. No issues whatsoever. So they couldve literally left it unpatched and it wouldve looked and run much better because TSR wouldve been upscaling from a much higher resolution.

So dumb.

Eh, when they fix it, if the final result is better, then I see why the update is worth it.

RT looked a bit rough on PS5. I’m really hoping PSSR actually brings it a little closer to the fantastic PC version!

 

[Elios83]

How can you say that when literally every single game with RTGI is having issues with PSSR reconstruction. When every single game running at sub 1080p resolution using PSSR to upscale is introducing these shimmering artifcats.

The only ones that are fine are games that are not using RTGI. And are upsacling from higher resolutions like Demon Souls, TLOU, Spiderman, FF7.

RTGI, Lumen, and other RT effects are the future. The fact that PSSR cant handle them is an actual pattern and im shocked that you cant see this.

The Insomniac games all have advanced ray tracing and they look fantastic.
F1 2024 has advanced ray tracing and it looks fantastic.
What are you going to say if Bloober and Respawn can fix their issues in upcoming patches?

An AI based upscaler is not magic, if your base resolution is 700-900p what do you expect? Pristine 4K like image?
Not to mention that:
1) It will improve over time like DLSS
2)No one is forcing developers to use it if they actually cared about testing their games finding out it's not the proper solution for their games. They can use the extra GPU power and ray tracing performance to do other stuff.
The Horizon games are breathtaking and they do not use PSSR.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

As a consumer, I am going to want to know about games that have problems first. There is nothing "premature" about this analysis. What was premature was the patch itself. Let's not pretend these guys released this patch unaware of these problems.

As a consumer I want to know the status on the good ones so I know which ones to play?

 

[Topher]

As a consumer I want to know the status on the good ones so I know which ones to play?

DF clearly doesn't have the manpower to cover all these games simultaneously. I'd rather know about problems first. That's just me.

 

[Sub_Level]

Some people were waiting to play this until they got a Pro lol

 

[SlimySnake]

The Insomniac games all have advanced ray tracing and they look fantastic.

Insomniac games dont have RTGI. What games are you playing? They dont have RTAO or RT shadows. The only mode that uses RTAO and RT Shadows are the fidelity mode that does not use PSSR.

They curiously disable almost all RT effects in the performance mode which does use PSSR. And lets face it, the RT reflections in Spiderman 2 are not as high quality as the ones we are seeing in AW2 since they apply to ALL objects. even wooden walls instead of just metallic and reflective objects like Spiderman 2 and ratchet. hence the shimmering everywhere we see in these RT games.

F1 2024 has advanced ray tracing and it looks fantastic.

F1 2024 devs purposefully did not use PSSR to upscale. They stuck with their own TAAU technique. Just like Lords of the Fallen devs who built their game on UE5 uses Lumen and did not have this issue.

What are you going to say if Bloober and Respawn can fix their issues in upcoming patches?
An AI based upscaler is not magic, if your base resolution is 700-900p what do you expect? Pristine 4K like image?
Not to mention that:
1) It will improve over time like DLSS
2)No one is forcing developers to use it if they actually cared about testing their games finding out it's not the proper solution for their games. They can use the extra GPU power and ray tracing performance to do other stuff.
The Horizon games are breathtaking and they do not use PSSR.

Not going to bother replying to any of this. I have addressed this many times. The fault is the devs but people saying DF shouldnt cover this or that PSSR is not at fault here are not going to get a pass from me either.

 

[mansoor1980]

Some people were waiting to play this until they got a Pro lol

 

[DeepEnigma]

No one is forcing developers to use it if they actually cared about testing their games finding out it's not the proper solution for their games.

This is the real rub. Why are we not harping on them for not testing before pushing it out there?

I know, platform wars are more fun from our childhood traumas.

 

[Zathalus]

As a consumer I want to know the status on the good ones so I know which ones to play?

They covered tons of good ones. Rebirth, F1, Last of Us, Spider-Man 2, Ratchet all got dedicated videos. They went over more (Stellar Blade, Dragons Dogma 2, Demon Souls, Forbidden West) in the Pro review and various directs already.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

I'm hoping they put out their patch soon. I put the game on hold right before the hospital as it was only a couple weeks from Pro release and would really like to finish it as so far it's my 2nd favorite game of the year.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

They went over more (Stellar Blade, Dragons Dogma 2, Demon Souls, Forbidden West) in the Pro review and various directs already.

That’s my point, they aren’t spending any dedicated time post launch on the good ports

 

[SlimySnake]

DF clearly doesn't have the manpower to cover all these games simultaneously. I'd rather know about problems first. That's just me.

they wasted 2 hours giggling and jerking each other off when a simple brief summary of these issues couldve been provided in less than 10 minutes. You can obviously cover all games in detail later on, but thats why I hate these podcast style reviews because these guys love to talk and see themselves on screen, and miss the forest for the trees.

A 10 minute video without faces with bad teeth in 4k simply stating some games with RTGI have issues, while other games with no RT are fine with brief clips showing the issues wouldve been whats required from a fucking tech reviewer.

No but nowadays, everything needs to be 25+ minutes long with most big items getting 2 hour long podcasts to max out ad breaks.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Insomniac games dont have RTGI. What games are you playing? They dont have RTAO or RT shadows. The only mode that uses RTAO and RT Shadows are the fidelity mode that does not use PSSR.

They curiously disable almost all RT effects in the performance mode which does use PSSR. And lets face it, the RT reflections in Spiderman 2 are not as high quality as the ones we are seeing in AW2 since they apply to ALL objects. even wooden walls instead of just metallic and reflective objects like Spiderman 2 and ratchet. hence the shimmering everywhere we see in these RT games.

F1 2024 devs purposefully did not use PSSR to upscale. They stuck with their own TAAU technique. Just like Lords of the Fallen devs who built their game on UE5 uses Lumen and did not have this issue.


Not going to bother replying to any of this. I have addressed this many times. The fault is the devs but people saying DF shouldnt cover this or that PSSR is not at fault here are not going to get a pass from me either.

We'll find out with GT7s dynamic real time global illumination system and RT. Something tells me PD spent more time with it before rushing it out there.

Gran Turismo 7 Update 1.54 Brings PS5 Pro Enhancements And Five New Cars

Update 1.54 brings some pretty cool cars, although no word on expected PS5 Pro enhancements

www.carthrottle.com

 

[adamsapple]

That’s my point, they aren’t spending any dedicated time post launch on the good ports

?

Answer this, does it make more sense to cover a decent version that continues to be decent, or a decent version that now has unforeseen issues that are worth pointing out so they may catch the developers eyes and get fixed.

Kinda odd that folks are being critical of them bringing up legitimate issues with games.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

?

Answer this, does it make more sense to cover a decent version that continues to be decent, or a decent version that now has unforeseen issues that are worth pointing out so they may catch the developers eyes and get fixed.

Kinda odd that folks are being critical of them bringing up legitimate issues with games.

I’m not asking for them to not cover SH2

But Stellar Blade has a lot more they could talk about than 30 seconds in an hour long video

 

[King Dazzar]

As a consumer I want to know the status on the good ones so I know which ones to play?

DF clearly doesn't have the manpower to cover all these games simultaneously. I'd rather know about problems first. That's just me.

I agree with both of your takes. Great that issues get flagged and then worked on. But I also want to see the good stuff too.

 

[GymWolf]

In my upscaled dreams, i still see some jaggies.

 

[Kangx]

F1 2024 devs purposefully did not use PSSR to upscale. They stuck with their own TAAU technique. Just like Lords of the Fallen devs who built their game on UE5 uses Lumen and did not have this issue.

You are so wrong on this but say it with lot of confidence. You can find this information in sec If you google it. Infact, DF covered this many time and reviewed it already.

You don't follow the pro update much do you?

 

[Elios83]

Insomniac games dont have RTGI. What games are you playing? They dont have RTAO or RT shadows. The only mode that uses RTAO and RT Shadows are the fidelity mode that does not use PSSR.

They curiously disable almost all RT effects in the performance mode which does use PSSR. And lets face it, the RT reflections in Spiderman 2 are not as high quality as the ones we are seeing in AW2 since they apply to ALL objects. even wooden walls instead of just metallic and reflective objects like Spiderman 2 and ratchet. hence the shimmering everywhere we see in these RT games.

F1 2024 devs purposefully did not use PSSR to upscale. They stuck with their own TAAU technique. Just like Lords of the Fallen devs who built their game on UE5 uses Lumen and did not have this issue.


Not going to bother replying to any of this. I have addressed this many times. The fault is the devs but people saying DF shouldnt cover this or that PSSR is not at fault here are not going to get a pass from me either.

No one is saying they shouldn't cover these games,at least not me.
Just that a good coverage is a coverage that conveys the right idea about what's going on in a balanced way. DF is just thinking about what can create the best return for them in terms of controversies and hits, not about providing a good coverage.
With the Pro it's absolutely clear there are tons of significantly improved games but the system won't do miracles by itself and some developers have rushed out stuff they haven't even tested otherwise how do you approve something broken like the SH2 update?

 

[SlimySnake]

We'll find out with GT7s dynamic real time global illumination system and RT.

Gran Turismo 7 Update 1.54 Brings PS5 Pro Enhancements And Five New Cars

Update 1.54 brings some pretty cool cars, although no word on expected PS5 Pro enhancements

www.carthrottle.com

Sorry, but GT's dynamic illumination is not RTGI. it's not even close to software lumen which is far more dynamic and hence causes issues with PSSR.

Their reflections are also very limited. They only apply to cars and only reflect certain things. The real reason for the shimmering is that nearly everything in those games is dynamic. lighting is calculated on the fly. Reflections and AO are calculated on the fly. Reflections are applied to everything which causes issues because RT reflections are technically RT lighting since they are bouncing off other lights. Something we are not going to see in GT7 since only cars are reflecting objects and only certain things like other cars. Spiderman 2 is the same. Great reflections on reflective objects but not on everything like wooden or cement walls leading to a slightly more clearer image that PSSR can handle. BTW, there is shimmering in Spiderman 2 as well, just not as bad. Insomniac disabled the new RT effects like RTAO, Shadows and enhanced RT Reflections on the performance mode because they likely saw the same results.

 

[Zathalus]

I’m not asking for them to not cover SH2

But Stellar Blade has a lot more they could talk about than 30 seconds in an hour long video

They are working on a dedicated video for that. The various Resident Evil updates as well. Should be out this week.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

They are working on a dedicated video for that. The various Resident Evil updates as well. Should be out this week.

Good to know, I think they could have staggered the videos better

 

[SlimySnake]

You can find this information in sec If you google it. Infact, DF covered this many time and reviewed it already.

You don't follow the pro update much do you?

WTF are you talking about? literally? what information can i find if i google it?

Are you saying F1 uses PSSR?

 

[Kangx]

WTF are you talking about? literally? what information can i find if i google it?

Are you saying F1 uses PSSR?

Yes. Go and watch df review. I can't believe you miss this lol. They got 3 to 4 videos dedicated to this title.

 

[Fake]

Another loss for teampro I guess.

 

[iamvin22]

Okay, so the game is patched with Pro enhancements. The enhancements just suck?

Yes

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Much of this will always be on the devs. You’re given a set of tools to play with and how you choose to use those tools is on you. Sony cannot control 3rd party devs. PSSR has already proven its competence, so the devs either need to sort out what they’re doing with PSSR, or ignore it and use the Pro in other ways that make sense.

So, while PSSR isn’t perfect (which can pertain to any of these AI solutions), that 3rd party devs are the main ones having issues has to attest to something here, particularly if they’re using UE and/or raytracing (but more so UE4/5).

 

[scydrex]

No point in this video if there is no official support yet for the Pro or PSSR.

 

[Mr Moose]

WTF are you talking about? literally? what information can i find if i google it?

Are you saying F1 uses PSSR?

F1 24 tested on PS5 Pro: ray tracing and PSSR raise visual quality to new heights

Digital Foundry takes a closer look at Codemaster's impressive PS5 Pro upgrades for F1 24.

www.eurogamer.net

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sorry, but GT's dynamic illumination is not RTGI.

Yes. It is.

Yes, dynamic global illumination is considered "real-time"as it calculates light interactions in a scene as changes occur, allowing for immediate visual updates to lighting based on moving objects or dynamic light sources, making it suitable for interactive applications like video games and virtual reality experiences.


Key points about dynamic global illumination:

• Immediate updates:
  The lighting is recalculated on the fly, meaning changes to the scene are reflected almost instantly.

Advanced Graphics Summit: Realistic Real-Time Sky Dome Rendering in 'Gran Turismo 7'

Gran Turismo 7 includes the feature of dynamic time and weather changes to create a more realistic driving experience and the excitement of dramatic racing action. To achieve this, the team at Polyphony Digital implemented a new sky dome rendering...

www.gdcvault.com

It's another form of real time illumination. It also includes indirect baked lighting and shadows, but even "RTGI" acronym usage games still use indirect baked lighting and shadows. We are not talking about complete ray traced lighting which most of those games don't use either.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yes. My dear. Go and watch df review.

ok, i stand corrected. they didnt use PSSR for their 8k mode or the Performance mode but did use PSSR for their RT mode. thats where i got confused.

 

[saintjules]

Some people were waiting to play this until they got a Pro lol

I've been playing it on PC but wouldn't mind playing on the Pro.