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[DonkeyPunchJr]

Do you think a 15 hour shooter is alot cheaper to produce as bloated garbage games? The alternative is less budget in shorter games, no fancy shit.

I want cheaper games as well but people want those games to be bleeding edge which doom arguably is.

I don't care what their budget is. They made a product that isn't worth the asking price for me, so I'm not going to buy it at that price. It's that simple.

You act as if they had no choice but to charge $70 for this game ($100 for the premium version) as if there's some fixed per unit cost in manufacturing this game. Obviously that's not true, and obviously the $70 price is not enough to compensate for the extremely poor sales.

Would they have made more profit by charging $50 and selling lots more copies? My guess is yes, but it's not my job to figure out their business model for them. Maybe the $70 price was part of the larger strategy to increase the perceived value of Gamepass. If so, well I hope it worked out for them but I'm still not gonna buy it for $70.

What are you going to do? Try to argue people into accepting their asking price?

 

[Steve Holt]

I admittedly didn't get very far with this, but in my brief time with it, it felt like the budget was reduced for this when compared to Eternal.

The lack of glory kills, big open levels and forced RT.

But that's purely opinion.

 

[Camper182]

Id has been shit since DOOM 2016.

Some of the baffling takes you can find in this forum....

 

[poppabk]

If someone was already paying for GamePass for another title or reason, then the income generated through it is zero.
The only measurable benefit is new subs and retentions.

"Number of players" when the game is available on an already running subscription service is almost meaningless in terms of revenue generation!
Because let's face it, the bigger the pre-existing subscriber base then the bigger the number of players is likely to be, because its more people being able to try it out at no additional cost.

That is how subs work. They just grind out revenue month after month. The threshold you have to reach for new users is 'eh might as well give it a shot' and for existing users its just to be good enough to not have someone go through the effort of actively canceling.
Someone doesn't even have to play Doom for it to have an impact on this - they just have to think they might want to play it at some point, especially if they are already subscribed.
Take a look at all the shit that is on Netflix - for some of the shovelware 'movies' they are pretty much only paying for them to pad out the search results. They lost subscribers when they released Stranger Things season 4 - one of their most popular shows and seasons ever. Stranger Things didnt lose money though, because that isnt how the economics of subscription platforms work.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Side note - I think there are some benefits to a service like GamePass, but the thing that makes me skeptical of this kind of service is how it encourages changes to the core design of a given game.

IE - GaaS is preferabel to MSFT when they are making money through GP because it keeps people subscribed...this was the idea with Halo Infinite...or Forza going forward as a platform.

When a game decidedly won't be GaaS, it benefits from appealing to the highest amount of players possible...and I think in the case of TDA this means they were told to tone down the difficult of Eternal and bring it more players. Eternal was almost character-action-esque in terms of what it demanded from the player, and how tight the gameplay was.

TDA in comparison feels blunt, unpolished, and less intelligent in almost every way.

I know I keep repeating myself, but to me it most certainly felt rushed in a variety of ways. It'd explain the lacking in polish, content, etc.

In a game that encourages secrets and collectibles, I hit a ton of invisible walls just trying to see if I missed anything.

Then with the campaign, I didn't even rush it (hell, I wanted to savor it), but I still beat it about 16 hours. Which isn't bad for a campaign at all IMO, that's a decent length. But it does feel a bit lacking when it's a $70 title with nothing else to provide. Especially if you're not a replaying/100 percenter type of player.

Folks really enjoyed the skins in Eternal, but in TDA they're just straight up palette swaps and nothing else, lol. Maybe they'll add more detailed skins in the future, I dunno.

 

[Plague Doctor]

I don't care what their budget is. They made a product that isn't worth the asking price for me, so I'm not going to buy it at that price. It's that simple.

You act as if they had no choice but to charge $70 for this game ($100 for the premium version) as if there's some fixed per unit cost in manufacturing this game. Obviously that's not true, and obviously the $70 price is not enough to compensate for the extremely poor sales.

Would they have made more profit by charging $50 and selling lots more copies? My guess is yes, but it's not my job to figure out their business model for them. Maybe the $70 price was part of the larger strategy to increase the perceived value of Gamepass. If so, well I hope it worked out for them but I'm still not gonna buy it for $70.

What are you going to do? Try to argue people into accepting their asking price?

 

[ReasonBeing]

Even if it hadnt been on Gamepass, i wouldnt of bought it.
I like DOOM 2016 and Eternal but times change, i cant justify £70 for a semi linear 12 hour campaign. I wont even pay that for GTA 6 to be honest.

Same here, I liked 2016 well enough, but Eternal was a turn off. While Dark Ages seems to be more of my style, I find it tougher and tougher to justify dropping $70 on a one and done game. Ill eventually buy a month of GamePass to play and maybe buy when it's on a deep deep sale, only because I am a digital hoarder.

 

[Clear]

That is how subs work. They just grind out revenue month after month. The threshold you have to reach for new users is 'eh might as well give it a shot' and for existing users its just to be good enough to not have someone go through the effort of actively canceling.
Someone doesn't even have to play Doom for it to have an impact on this - they just have to think they might want to play it at some point, especially if they are already subscribed.
Take a look at all the shit that is on Netflix - for some of the shovelware 'movies' they are pretty much only paying for them to pad out the search results. They lost subscribers when they released Stranger Things season 4 - one of their most popular shows and seasons ever. Stranger Things didnt lose money though, because that isnt how the economics of subscription platforms work.

You are missing my point. Number of players of game x is meaningless in relation to the success and impact of the game, because as I've pointed out the player count is derived from subscriber count for the service as a whole. Doom might have got 2 million players, which sounds good but isn't actually impressive given overall sub count. A basic asset-flipped "clicker" game would likely rack up a similar or greater number of players if it offered a quick boost to Gamerscore.

The problem this leads is a product of the fact that games take way longer and cost more to make than Netflix filler shows. MS willingness to sacrifice these games to prop up their ill-considered subscription plan is just creating a race to the bottom.

Lets be real here, if the Netflix model was such a winner why is it that they need to prop up their income with increasing numbers of ads, even in paid service tiers?

It doesn't work.

 

[Sushi_Combo]

Doom 2016 was amazing, enjoyed both SP and MP modes. Eternal was a step down for me and this one doesn't look that great either. On top of it being more expensive, probably just wait for deep discount by end of year.

 

[The Fartist]

to have sold

 

[poppabk]

You are missing my point. Number of players of game x is meaningless in relation to the success and impact of the game, because as I've pointed out the player count is derived from subscriber count for the service as a whole. Doom might have got 2 million players, which sounds good but isn't actually impressive given overall sub count. A basic asset-flipped "clicker" game would likely rack up a similar or greater number of players if it offered a quick boost to Gamerscore.

The problem this leads is a product of the fact that games take way longer and cost more to make than Netflix filler shows. MS willingness to sacrifice these games to prop up their ill-considered subscription plan is just creating a race to the bottom.

Lets be real here, if the Netflix model was such a winner why is it that they need to prop up their income with increasing numbers of ads, even in paid service tiers?

It doesn't work.

?
Netflix has been killing it - they arent propping up the service with ads - they are getting away with adding ads on top of a subscription fee. It's a win/win for them - gives them a high revenue generating introductory tier and it makes that tier annoying to use - driving upgrades to the higher tier.
MS wish they could follow that model without getting so much backlash it would crash the internet.

 

[Kacho]

The lack of glory kills

This one isn't budget related. Hugo said was a design decision so you weren't locked into canned animations when doing multi melee kills.

 

[MiguelItUp]

This one isn't budget related. Hugo said was a design decision so you weren't locked into canned animations when doing multi melee kills.

Yeah, they also mentioned feeling influenced by the open spaces that existed in DOOM 1/2, more so 2. So, they decided to lean more into that. I know it can feel a bit weird at times though.

 

[rapid32.5]

In other news.

Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 has sold 3.3 million copies worldwide

So… that game was on GP too….. what gives Microsoft? Maybe the price was too high.

Bad timing and $70-80 games will mostly fail when studios are producing great games in the $50 range. It's time to focus on compact, high-quality games instead.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Wait. This doom has no multiplayer ? lol ok

 

[Hudo]

I just hope they'll pause with Doom for a while. I want a "Doom 2016 take" on a new Quake game based on Quake 1.

 

[DryvBy]

It deserves it. This is the worst Doom game of all time. Buggy, worthless game.

 

[Nydius]

I admittedly didn't get very far with this, but in my brief time with it, it felt like the budget was reduced for this when compared to Eternal.

The lack of glory kills, big open levels and forced RT.

But that's purely opinion.

Same. I fizzled out around chapter 8 or 9 and have never returned.

For me it started strong but rapidly became boring.

'Boring' isn't a word I ever expected to use to describe a DOOM game, but here we are.

 

[Fabieter]

What are you going to do? Try to argue people into accepting their asking price?

Bro its not even about doom in particular its about saying playtime=value. Do what you want with your money. I didnt even buy doom myself for fullprice, you have options to get it cheaper on every platform.

 

[Dr_Ifto]

Don't forget to mention that you've never watched an episode of Game of thrones or Breaking Bad. You're that guy.

To be honest, I knew it was coming out soon, just not when. I didnt know it was already out.

 

[Itchy Tickles]

Beat it the other day and thought it was OK at best. Dragged for me near the end. I didn't like that Doom Guy was presented more like a superhero rather than just a badass dude with a shotgun. Something felt off.

I actually booted up Eternal (The Old Gods DLC) after, and I have to say, that game looks way better imo. The art style, enemy designs, colours, worlds, weapons, glory kills, the lighting etc. It did take a while to remember I couldn't parry or use shield bash, etc.

 

[Shodai]

It's baffling to me how Doom has strayed so far away from multiplayer, modding, and map creation.

Fwiw aside from that, Eternal turned me off (Way too stressful and micro-managey) and TDA wasn't compelling enough for me to bite at full price, maybe when it's half off.

 

[Kenneth Haight]

I need to say what everyone else is thinking

Should have let us play as the bossbabe

 

[MacReady13]

I feel like Gamepass is a net negative that Xbox can't back out of.

Spot on. It has ruined the once great Xbox brand (and remember folks, Xbox is a console ONLY and not a games publisher, no matter how much Microsoft try to rebrand that name) and they cannot recover from this. Just imagine if they took away day 1 games away from the gamepass people. There'd be riots. They'd have to start PAYING for games again. Can't have that.

 

[MacReady13]

Fwiw aside from that, Eternal turned me off (Way too stressful and micro-managey) and TDA wasn't compelling enough for me to bite at full price, maybe when it's half off.

Sounds like us 2 idiots didn't like Eternal meaning we know nothing about gaming and "great" game design... In that case, you'll LOVE TDA. I do. It's a fantastic return to great form for the Doom franchise.

 

[Justin9mm]

Didn't finish Eternal so I can't comment on the length of that game but its taken me 20 hours to run through the campaign on Nightmare. Plenty long enough for a single player FPS campaign and almost twice as long as it took me to run through 2016.

I played on Ultra Violence, If it is really good fun game with great mechanics, 20 hours is too short in my opinion. For a standard FPS like COD, 20 hours would overstay it's welcome. The mech and flying dragon type chapters were bullshit filler and a waste of time. I can't believe how people keep defending this game over Eternal. Let me preface by saying Dark Ages gameplay is good and fun and for that I liked the game, but literally everything else about it fucking sucks. The presentation, the bland environments (half the game looks the same), the story, the length etc. It seriously lacks compared to Eternal.

 

[Lord Malachite]

Not the least bit surprised. While DooM (2016) was a phenomenal, frenetic experience that I absolutely loved, DooM: Eternal is one of the most absolutely loathsome FPS games I have ever played.

While DooM: Eternal is no buggy mess plagued by MTX or forced co-op or political messaging, it is dreadfully unfun to play. It's drowning in unnecessary story, has horrendous and frequent platforming, forces combat into "my way or the highway" scenarios, ditches the joy of the "free-for-all" atmosphere of 2016, and essentially robs every ounce of joy from the act of murdering demons. It just never once feels like DooM should.

The unpleasantness of DooM: Eternal was so thoroughly and completely off-putting that I never gave DooM: The Dark Ages the time of day. But out of a sense of morbid curiosity, I watched a playthrough on Twitch. And I can honestly state I would not download the game for free let alone pay money for it. The game is the very antithesis of what DooM should be. And if this is what the IP is now, then iD can keep it. It's completely dead to me.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I'll say it once and I'll say it again. Imho, there are simply too many games, competition and choices for players and that can definitely have an affect on many games. Sure, you get surprises like Oblivion and Expedition 33, but most gamers are selective and will usually spend money on a few games they feel is worth their money per year meaning some other games will be neglected or held back sales-wise.

Having Doom on Gamepass probably didn't do it any favors either especially with it being $70 game that you can play for much less.

 

[sharp weiner]

It's not the # copies sold, its the # of new subscribers who forget to cancel

 

[Luc2010]

I believe changing the main character from a male to female would be the wrong move. Does not help move Doom up in the world. It would have probably sold less than it did already.

 

[Axelotl]

played it last night via Gamepass und wasnt exactly thrilled. Doom 2016 was my favorite.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I'm not sure why but the zeitgeist rejected this game. It's kinda crazy. I think 2025 isn't the year to put out a game that isn't epic.

Game is super expensive and Doom eternal was very divisive, which made people more cautious of the next entry. Also worth mentioning since 2020 when eternal launched, the market got filled with boomer shooters of all sorts of variety and for multiple tastes, so Dark Ages has a lot of competition going for it.

 

[DryvBy]

Do you think a 15 hour shooter is alot cheaper to produce as bloated garbage games? The alternative is less budget in shorter games, no fancy shit.

I want cheaper games as well but people want those games to be bleeding edge which doom arguably is.

This new Doom is not bleeding edge.bits a cheap bullet hell game they slapped Doom into. I'm so sick and tired of budget excuses. I won't accept their bloat after 33 came out for a fraction of the cost. I can tell who hasn't finished Doom by the comments because any shooter fan will absolutely hate the final boss fight(s). They don't even look finished.

 

[Scrawnton]

id jumped the shark with this game after the success of 2016 and Eternal. They should've let Doom go for a decade and focus on Quake or something else.

 

[Bert Big Balls]

Think its a few of factors.

Gamepass obviously.

Ridiculous pricing.

Eternal turned alot of people off, no matter what those that loved it would tell you.

Then this seems to have alienated the Enteral crowd as well.

Shame as its a great game, finished it just last night

Loved Eternal, didn't alienate me.

 

[kevboard]

id jumped the shark with this game after the success of 2016 and Eternal. They should've let Doom go for a decade and focus on Quake or something else.

I once again ask what people think makes Quake different than Doom...

they follow the exact same formula.
in fact, the differences between Doom TDA and Doom 1 are bigger than the difference between Quake 1 and Doom 1.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

You know, we'll probably never know the numbers (until another MS trial at least), but something that my wife has noticed: post-launch social media are absolutley dead about The Dark Ages. It never really caugh on bot pre and post-release. No memes, no viral TikToks, no popular fan songs or fan animations. Eternal was a BarbenHeimer moment back in the day with Animal Crossing around, 2016 was very popular with musical covers and fan edits.

Truth be told, I see way more Tainted Grail edits on TikTok (thanks to norse chants), Battlefront 2 (full-on revival thanks to Andor) and Expedition 33 content than any sort of reflections about The Dark Ages. I know it's kinda anecdotical to a degree, but very probably a good indicatior of it's initial sales performance.

 

[Hudo]

You know, we'll probably never know the numbers (until another MS trial at least), but something that my wife has noticed: post-launch social media are absolutley dead about The Dark Ages. It never really caugh on bot pre and post-release. No memes, no viral TikToks, no popular fan songs or fan animations. Eternal was a BarbenHeimer moment back in the day with Animal Crossing around, 2016 was very popular with musical covers and fan edits.

Truth be told, I see way more Tainted Grail edits on TikTok (thanks to norse chants), Battlefront 2 (full-on revival thanks to Andor) and Expedition 33 content than any sort of reflections about The Dark Ages. I know it's kinda anecdotical to a degree, but very probably a good indicatior of it's initial sales performance.

Even the "what went wrong" threads on 4chan about Dark Ages died down.

 

[PeteBull]

Wait a minute:

• Less than 1M sold
• Claim 3 million players
• That means 2M+ gamepass players
• Campaign around 15 hours of playtime (no furthrer MP or replay value)
• Most people would beat that in less than 2 months

So, Gamepass should generate as much revenue in the first two months since the game release enough to cover for Doom DA development costs right? And what they get from sales is the actual profits the game makes? How does this work actually, diven that all subscripion should "cover for all games"?

Whole trick microsoft was hoping for is for gamepass to be widely supported/used by players, they hoped/wanted 100m on xbox one/series and another 100m on pc, with 200m total or close to that gamepass would actually turn profitable, ofc its not now and it will never be, even if they rise price to 50$/month, simply too few subs out there

 

[lh032]

I need to say what everyone else is thinking

Should have let us play as the bossbabe

tbh, unless she is a sexy version of doom protag, i dont see the purpose here. Most of the time she will be wearing the helm anyway.

 

[Fabieter]

This new Doom is not bleeding edge.bits a cheap bullet hell game they slapped Doom into. I'm so sick and tired of budget excuses. I won't accept their bloat after 33 came out for a fraction of the cost. I can tell who hasn't finished Doom by the comments because any shooter fan will absolutely hate the final boss fight(s). They don't even look finished.

I would love smaller teams to have a similar quality and quantity like 33 but its sadly the exception and not the rule.

If expensive games won't sell they will be less expensive games. Its simple.

 

[Scrawnton]

I once again ask what people think makes Quake different than Doom...

they follow the exact same formula.
in fact, the differences between Doom TDA and Doom 1 are bigger than the difference between Quake 1 and Doom 1.

Franchise fatigue?

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

+1

Make the Doom Daughter next game!

 

[Hugare]

Loved 2016 but Eternal have soured me. Didnt like the aesthetic or gameplay changes.

So I wasnt really hyped for Dark Ages.

Maybe thats the case for many out there.

 

[bender]

It probably would have been better to use the momentum of 2016/Eternal to reboot Quake instead of trying to stack even more mechanics on top of the foundation that those two games laid. I do think we are also starting to feel a wider "parry fatigue" in general audiences.

 

[Hudo]

It probably would have been better to use the momentum of 2016/Eternal to reboot Quake instead of trying to stack even more mechanics on top of the foundation that those two games laid. I do think we are also starting to feel wider "parry fatigue" in general audiences.

Or Hexen, if they want to go even harder with melee combat.

 

[bender]

Or Hexen, if they want to go even harder with melee combat.

Yeah. I considered that, but also thought that might be a bridge to far from a name recognition standpoint versus the cost of development. I'd still like to see id software contract David Szymanski to do a smaller scale Hexen reboot.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

I would buy it if there were a proper PS5 physical release not requiring Internet to download the game.

Pathetic devs/published/whoever

Take this