• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Dota 2 |OT13| 6.86, our Pit Lord and savior

Status
Not open for further replies.

shira

Member
http://www.twitch.tv/109dota

doing a few hours of streaming before my HEART DIES

4.9K doto
ZDsxCCG.gif
 
connect laptop to tv hdmi port 2, colors all washed out no resolution looks right

change to port 1, has a stable res, colors look normal.

??????????

i'm not tech wizard


oh but some cracking sound when watching 1.09 strim

what the fuck
 
You raise good points, but imo, Undertale, specificly in terms of gameplay, is nowhere close games like the two Xenoblades, Bravely Default, Pokémon or Megaten.

Even in terms of story it really doesn't do anything that is that new, other than the option to not kill any NPC, as opposed to other games allowing you to spare a few key figures.

In fact, most of the JRPG shortcomings you mention seem to be fixed in Bravely Default. What was about it that you didn't like?
apart from chapter 5 and 6

As an Addendum, I'd classify Undertale as a JRPG if you go Genocide and schmup if you go Pacifist
Bravely Default's demo is possibly the best JRPG made in that particular style. Amazing pacing, which the game falls very short of.

As for the actual game, it's overall very very good even if you include chapter 5 and 6. I believe the game suffered heavily from being a commercial corporate made product. The entire game's twist could have probably been better served in a game where you had a genuine choice and chapters 5&6 work more like undertale's pacifist ending than the abomination it ended up being. It's one of those games which is very under cooked, there's a lot of stuff to improve and a lot of stuff to cut. Padding is a massive issue with the game, even being able to turn off encounters you inevitably end up fighting a lot of the same monsters over and over, and it ends up being repetitive. The game's random encounters/gameplay systems aren't dynamic enough to make the 4th, 5th, etc, random encounter interesting.

Being able to turn off random encounters is wonderful. But, it's something that's tied to a menu and it's an inelegant solution. Why not make random encounters less frequent but more meaningful? Why not integrate the encounter system into the game? This is part of the issue with the genre(although this isn't something which is only present in this genre). A lot of the game's game play systems are never integrated into the game at a story level. If random encounters are tool that game developers use what exactly are they being used for? In older games, you could perhaps say they were there to represent the perilous journey through the wilderness, but in modern game design where everything is super easy that doesn't really hold up. In the BD you're never really at risk of dying in overworld and dungeons, and being able to turn off random encounters makes this doubly so. Basically BD's solutions to the genre's problems are a band-aid they patch the issue but don't engage it head on.

The story was well...it's not really worth talking about. I'll just say that I felt like it was a twist with a story added to it, I found it underwhelming.

Radiant Historia is another game which does some really brilliant stuff, but as an entire game it falls very short of being a classic.

Not sure I want to go into detail on Xenoblade but, the game is like if you had a 12 story building that was about to collapse and then you went and added another floor. Some really cool stuff, but so so much bad. I liked it though, it was a very enjoyable game. Haven't finished it and might not ever finished it, I got sucked into a sidequest blackhole and the game isn't fun anymore.

DO0pXAf.png


this is why i hate this game

This is a great example of what I was talking about earlier. When I played through the game this screen was filled with snow dogs that were built too long and had collapsed, there was another NPC there to talk about it. The reason for this was because I had interacted with this dog in a random encounter and had inspired it to create art. As a result of a random encounter the game changed.

Edit: As far as a Genocide run being like a traditional rpg you're totally right. The gencide run isn't just a traditional rpg though, it's an exceptionally bad, unenjoyable traditonal jrpg. You're supposed to have a bad time, the only thing that gets you through it is determination.
One of the things the game does to make the game less fun and more annoying is decreasing the monster spawn rate as you kill more monsters. This works really well for a few reasons; first of all it highlights the fact that there are a finite number of monsters in the underground, it's a small thing but it means these arent just infinitely respawning mobs. The second effect it has is that as the monsters deplete it starts to feel like your character is a genuine murderous psychopath, who the fuck would walk around in circles for minutes just to find that last monster? Finally, it works very well with the game's theme of determination, the power of will of determination that helps you save your friends in the pacifist run gets twisted into the determination to see everything there is to see in the game no matter what, the determination for relentless murderous intent
. The game's genocide run however feels a lot less fleshed out than the rest of the game. It's more like an easter egg tbh.



I played DP earlier and she was already strong as fuck this might make dp the new cancer again.
 
Bravely Default's demo is possibly the best JRPG made in that particular style. Amazing pacing, which the game falls very short of.

As for the actual game, it's overall very very good even if you include chapter 5 and 6. I believe the game suffered heavily from being a commercial corporate made product. The entire game's twist could have probably been better served in a game where you had a genuine choice and chapters 5&6 work more like undertale's pacifist ending than the abomination it ended up being. It's one of those games which is very under cooked, there's a lot of stuff to improve and a lot of stuff to cut. Padding is a massive issue with the game, even being able to turn off encounters you inevitably end up fighting a lot of the same monsters over and over, and it ends up being repetitive. The game's random encounters/gameplay systems aren't dynamic enough to make the 4th, 5th, etc, random encounter interesting.

Being able to turn off random encounters is wonderful. But, it's something that's tied to a menu and it's an inelegant solution. Why not make random encounters less frequent but more meaningful? Why not integrate the encounter system into the game? This is part of the issue with the genre(although this isn't something which is only present in this genre). A lot of the game's game play systems are never integrated into the game at a story level. If random encounters are tool that game developers use what exactly are they being used for? In older games, you could perhaps say they were there to represent the perilous journey through the wilderness, but in modern game design where everything is super easy that doesn't really hold up. In the BD you're never really at risk of dying in overworld and dungeons, and being able to turn off random encounters makes this doubly so. Basically BD's solutions to the genre's problems are a band-aid they patch the issue but don't engage it head on.

The story was well...it's not really worth talking about. I'll just say that I felt like it was a twist with a story added to it, I found it underwhelming.

Reading this makes me think you'd appreciate Crimson Shroud. It's a short, cheap 3DS eshop jrpg where you go through a single dungeon. It's heavy on story, broken up by a handful of tabletop-rpg-like battles, which makes those moments more meaningful. I remember the presentation and music being pretty nice too.
 
Reading this makes me think you'd appreciate Crimson Shroud. It's a short, cheap 3DS eshop jrpg where you go through a single dungeon. It's heavy on story, broken up by a handful of tabletop-rpg-like battles, which makes those moments more meaningful. I remember the presentation and music being pretty nice too.
I'll keep it mind.
I need something to binge watch now that my wrist is fucked, any recommendations? I'm thinking Hunter x Hunter.


Because that's what you want when you solo queue, teaming up with a 4 stack to go up against a 5 stack.
Watch Ping Pong the anime every dota player can relate to. http://myanimelist.net/anime/22135/Ping_Pong_The_Animation
 

mooncakes

Member
man, it goes to shows you if Reddit complains loud enough, they get it done. Invoker is nerf and all the bitching they did made huskar shit.
 

TUSR

Banned
huskar nerf was icefrog saying idk wtf to do with this hero, rework incoming in 2 patches.

tusk nerf was another slap on the wrist

i want to see more DP and a shift in picked heroes
 

Chris R

Member
I feel so damn blessed that my monitor has almost no backlight bleed (I never play pure black games in the dark, it won't ever be an issue for me) and no dead pixels.

PS4 looked good, time to hook it up to my PC and pray dota can run 1440p with my shitty card.


What is the console command to get the fps/ping/packet loss things I've seen on so many pro streamers UI in the upper right?
 
man, it goes to shows you if Reddit complains loud enough, they get it done. Invoker is nerf and all the bitching they did made huskar shit.

Invoker got nerfed because he was too strong, Huskar got (over)nerfed because he was too strong, Reddit makes 15 billion suggestions, broken clock something something twice a day. All Valve listens to are QoL changes, none of Reddit's balance ideas are taken.
 
silly leddit top 100 dotabuff invoker pickers, hE wil be fine if alacrity costed +5 manA lmFAo no need to touch his base str!!
You are obviously not Icefrog but why do you think Reddit gets balance changes so wrong? Do they just not understand Icefrog's balance philosophies (whatever they might be)?
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
You are obviously not Icefrog but why do you think Reddit gets balance changes so wrong? Do they just not understand Icefrog's balance philosophies (whatever they might be)?

i mean to be fair sometimes reddit gets things right, but that's the nature of the site--if you have like 300-400 people suggesting a particular nerf or buff to a hero a few are bound to be right and many are bound to be wrong, right?

But one thing i see all the time on playdota and reddit and wherever is basically this: X hero is OP. He's good at A, B, C, D and his Y, Z is fkn ridiculous. All of these need to be nerfed or Y and Z need to be gutted. But in reality X hero just needs a little bit of A toned down or B (or both). So let's take SF as a real example. You had people saying SF had too much physical damage, too much nuke damage, too much lane presence no mana problems, and too much utility/damage in teamfights from his ult. Then their logical extension of explaining a hero's strengths is hey everything is op and everything needs to be nerfed, let's slap raze with a 120 mana cost, arbitrary -30% damage or creep penalty, nerf necromastery, ult should do 50% less damage, etc... just lots of overreaction (removing bash from troll kappa).

Invoker's strength has always been his mid to late game insanity. He's always balanced or nerfed in a way that makes him relatively weak in lane (forge spirits, EMP, cold snap, and now alacrity nerf). So all these people coming out of the woodwork LELELEL INVOKER COMBO SO EZ every spell needs to be nerfed NERF deafentieg blast, etc... that's just dumb. Then you have the opposite which are the invoker spammers who think +10 mana on alacrity is a big enough nerf to his laning when the hero has been granted 4.0 int gain rofl.
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
yeah it's absolutely stupid. i don't know why it wasn't fixed in 6.86c, you can do it on dire too with clockwerk and i think wisp/pudge
 
Then their logical extension of explaining a hero's strengths is hey everything is op and everything needs to be nerfed, let's slap raze with a 120 mana cost, arbitrary -30% damage or creep penalty, nerf necromastery, ult should do 50% less damage, etc... just lots of overreaction (removing bash from troll kappa).
Without trying to start shit it honestly feels like a lot of Reddit wants or expects League-esque balancing from Icefrog.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Leeg takes the intuitive approach to balancing which is just fiddling with every value you can get your hands on until something sticks.

Icefrog puts all kinds of arbitrary rules on what he's willing and not willing to change so the process is arcane and your average player probably doesn't grasp that.
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
there's a pattern icefrog generally follows for nerfs which is:

1) Fix absolute bullshit skills (lesh lightning, raze 75 mana, more recently alacrity, etc...)
2) Amplify intended weakness (i.e. invoker's laning stage, SF's survivability, DP's reliance on long CD's)
3) Take away vision.
4) Buff unpopular counters or introduce new counters.

The nice thing about icefrog is he generally tries to nerf/buff in a way that makes a hero more unique or takes them in a new direction. Lots of rebalancing goes on across several patches over just raw nerfs. Look at lycan over the last 10 years the hero has changed significantly despite receiving some big nerfs. Shapeshift is a much more unique ability now and wolves are more than just treants, etc...
 
Leeg takes the intuitive approach to balancing which is just fiddling with every value you can get your hands on until something sticks.
Maybe, but I've seen friends recently complain about Riot straight up killing something that makes a champ good (and I remember them doing it far too many times between S1-S3, when I played.)
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I don't remember any champion that was destroyed but they do play favorites in a way Icefrog doesn't.
 
I'm losing my mind with this shit.

I fixed my old ass laptop, mainly to hook to my tv through hdmi, just to play youtube videos and twitch streams while I lay down in my room.

HOWEVER, I get some annoying ass crackling sound. I searched around and seems to be latency, most solutions I've found seem to be with USB 3.0 drivers and other shit this old ass HP laptop doesn't have.


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ



On topic, how the fuck Waga won that OD match when the entire team was on his ass all game. After I updated all my drivers, I restarted and checked again and bot/mid radiant raxes were down lmao
 
Something IF does that I like is that he wants to keep heroes unique or make them even more unique, I don't remember him ever taking that away from a hero for balancing purposes.
 
I don't remember any champion that was destroyed but they do play favorites in a way Icefrog doesn't.
I was gonna say Morde since they nerfed him post Worlds, released Season 6 Preseason which made him quite weak and then randomly nerfed him again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom