Weltall Zero
Member
Mmmmm, did you hear that somewhere? Confirmation would be awesome, I really don't want to start over considering my savegame has 100+ hours and 6 characters on Hard Mode.
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Dragon's Crown |OT| Knock down the crown
- Thread starter Caerith
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Mmmmm, did you hear that somewhere? Confirmation would be awesome, I really don't want to start over considering my savegame has 100+ hours and 6 characters on Hard Mode.
Fairly sure the saves are tied to the PSN id. So if you use both games with the same id it doesn't matter which version they are.
Delusibeta
Banned
From what I can tell, the EU version is identical to the US version. Makes sense, considering it's NISA we're talking about.
Finally unlocked online. Boy they really don't want the masses to buy this game do they, lol. Was there any reason to hide online co-op behind 9 bosses? Anyhow it doesn't bother me and I'm loving the gameplay, dwarf is a beast! But definitely not going in alone, shit can get really intense fast. The Gazer boss was annoying as hell.
Karsticles
Member
Sorceress Dilemma:
I've noticed that I don't really use Curse much. I finish a lot of dungeons with all of my Blizzard used, most of my Rock Press used, and Petrification used a few times, but about half the time I don't touch Curse. It's not because it's bad, it's just that I don't use it much with my playstyle, and it conflicts with lightning staves.
So I'm looking at this being my spell list right now:
Blizzard
Rock Press
Petrification
I tried Ice Prison and Gravity more extensively, and I like both of them. But I also feel like I should take Protection, especially since my wife is an Amazon player, and those two together are ridiculously strong. So I have the following questions to help me decide:
1) Does Rock Press ever stop 1-shotting normal enemies? I might drop it.
2) What bosses are trapped by Ice Prison?
I wish I could have Blizzard, Rock Press, Petrification, Ice Prison, Protection, and Gravity, but that would mean not having a piece of equipment, and that strikes me as a bad decision...I don't care about having staves of multiple elements. I tried that and only used the fire staff on mini-bosses in LoC. It's a small thing to lose for me.
So, thoughts?
I've noticed that I don't really use Curse much. I finish a lot of dungeons with all of my Blizzard used, most of my Rock Press used, and Petrification used a few times, but about half the time I don't touch Curse. It's not because it's bad, it's just that I don't use it much with my playstyle, and it conflicts with lightning staves.
So I'm looking at this being my spell list right now:
Blizzard
Rock Press
Petrification
I tried Ice Prison and Gravity more extensively, and I like both of them. But I also feel like I should take Protection, especially since my wife is an Amazon player, and those two together are ridiculously strong. So I have the following questions to help me decide:
1) Does Rock Press ever stop 1-shotting normal enemies? I might drop it.
2) What bosses are trapped by Ice Prison?
I wish I could have Blizzard, Rock Press, Petrification, Ice Prison, Protection, and Gravity, but that would mean not having a piece of equipment, and that strikes me as a bad decision...I don't care about having staves of multiple elements. I tried that and only used the fire staff on mini-bosses in LoC. It's a small thing to lose for me.
So, thoughts?
1) Yes. Deep into the LoC. You're not playing solo so it doesn't really matter to you. Solo sorcs really need it for some boss fights, especially the wraith.
2) Iirc, none. Most bosses that can move are trapped for a very very short time (e.g. doom beetle) and a lot of the bosses that move have movement abilities (teleport, flying, etc) that get out of it whenever they like.
The fire staff is non essential until you reach deep down, that's when every mini boss fight become epic struggles and the fire staff makes a world of difference.
Karsticles
Member
Hmmm. What are your thoughts on what I should drop, then? I really do appreciate the insta-clear Rock Press offers, and it's kind of my signature boss ender, too. But Ice Prison and Gravity both seem useful in different situations, and I don't want to be without either now. :-(
If your wife's amazon is taking most of the enemies' attention and you're just zapping from far while supporting her, why not just drop a piece of equipment? When you are in a fight where you'd take damage no matter what, just use protection to soak it up.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
It works at least between US and JPN. So If NISA didn't change a lot, it probably works with EU as well.
ATXAlchemy
Member
Having a Sorceress without Protect feels weird to me.
Lose Ice Prison. It's total base power is 400. Although the game says it has 75 base power, only the first hit does and the rest of the hits does 13 base power. It can potentially hit twice if the enemy is moving or large enough, but even then it only ends up with a 800 base power with some unreliability.
It takes a lot of work (1.5x damage mod if enemy is weak to Ice, Ice Damage+) to make it decent. It's also weird that it lasts 20 seconds but only hits for 10 seconds.
Gravity's total base power is 1150 and is a much better crowd control but is neutral element.
Gravity to gather enemy at one point + use high damage on that point (Megasmash, Brandish, etcetcetc) = quicker cleaning of rooms.
I doubt you're running out of CCs to spam since you've said it yourself. Blizzard & Rock used, Petri used some, the rest not so much.
Lose Ice Prison. It's total base power is 400. Although the game says it has 75 base power, only the first hit does and the rest of the hits does 13 base power. It can potentially hit twice if the enemy is moving or large enough, but even then it only ends up with a 800 base power with some unreliability.
It takes a lot of work (1.5x damage mod if enemy is weak to Ice, Ice Damage+) to make it decent. It's also weird that it lasts 20 seconds but only hits for 10 seconds.
Gravity's total base power is 1150 and is a much better crowd control but is neutral element.
Gravity to gather enemy at one point + use high damage on that point (Megasmash, Brandish, etcetcetc) = quicker cleaning of rooms.
I doubt you're running out of CCs to spam since you've said it yourself. Blizzard & Rock used, Petri used some, the rest not so much.
Seraphis Cain
bad gameplay lol
Recently came back to this, doing my second playthrough, with the Sorceress this time. Went from only having cleared the first two stages to having three talismans and a bunch of sidequests done in one sitting. Think that's enough for tonight. :lol
Need to go back to my Elf and work on the LoC eventually too.
Need to go back to my Elf and work on the LoC eventually too.
Karsticles
Member
I just havent really needed protect. Aside from the red dragon and archdemon, I usuaklly don't get hit by bosses. My wife was maining an elf, so it was non-essential for her, too. She actually doesnt even care about it for her Amazon, but once she tries it I think she will change her mind.
It is not that I run out of CC or don't. That is not the issue I focus on. The question is what kind of bag can I make that covers all my needs and lasts a long time. When I am swapping bags just because I am out of one or two spells, I feel like something is imbalanced.
Damage is not the point of ice prison, so low damage there does not bother me. It has different uses from Gravity. Especially if it blocks boss projectiles, then you can use it as a shield against stuff like the archdemon. I would have to test that, though.
I am actually leaning more toward rock press getting dropped, even though I love it. If it really ceases to kill normal enemies, then it is no longer really useful. Right now that is its entire use, the ability to clear a screen when I desperately need it. It is already kind of hard to use, because the enemies have to be grouped together and it only does one hit of burst damage. That is another aspect of this debate: burst vs. extended effect.
I don't want to drop a piece of gear, because they all have bonuses that outweigh what a spellbook offers. I am also considering not taking more than one point in levitation, since I use lightning and my aerial attack is kind of meh. Logically, I should drop animate skeleton, but I just love those fellers so much.
I wish respeccing was easier. Being able to test this stuff out without worry would be so nice.
The purple ball projectiles can be destroyed using staff attacks.
Actually for a large majority of the LoC I was only using 1 bag per floor. I don't really cast spells except during boss fights, and even then I'm very thrifty with spell usage.
Also, iirc, the game only autosaves when you return to the tavern from a combat stage. All you need is to respec, test out your new class in a stage, then quit via XMB.
Karsticles
Member
The purple balls don't kill me, the crazy ass random lightning does. It's like his Blizzard!
I made it through 1 floor per bag with my new setup. I ended not taking Ice Prison because it didn't feel like it's really my style, and I feel like when my wife is playing, she's not going to be hiding behind it or using it all that much. I think its usefulness is less than Gravity for my playstyle.
So I maxed the following:
Protection
Gravity
Blizzard
Rock Press
Petrification
I went through floors 4-8 of LoC with this setup and only used 6 bags. It could have been 4, but I had a Gazer + 2 assassins fight that completely decimated my spells, and my 5th bag doesn't have a Salubrious Chaos Monacle, so I had to use more spells to make up for my straggling MP. The Salubrious Chaos Monacle is incredible - undoubtedly the best item in the game for a lightning Sorceress.
I kept points in Animate Skeleton, and I tried Protection for the first time ever. Wow, the Red Dragon is like a different fight altogether with this on! I never had a moment where I really missed Curse except against the Assassins. Gravity is proving to be a worthwhile investment, especially since it adds a nice little DoT tick on bosses like the Chimera.
I put 2 points in Adroit Hands, 1 in Evasion, and 1 in Levitation. I will use my next 8 skill points to max Levitation. I've discovered that I don't care about the additional Evasion uses. I never use them as a lightning Sorceress, and the extended vanish time just creates bad habits in my gameplay (teleporting too early and often out of fear - LTP, me!).
Now I just need to decide on whether to use the Amazon or Elf amulet for my Sorceress, since hers is awful. Thoughts on (apparently) permanent HP regen or HP gained per attack? Keep in mind that I am lightning, so my spells aren't hitting 10-15 times per cast like with fire and ice.
Level up Power Shot, Evasion, and Clone Strikes. In the beginning of an encounter, fire a Power Shot, evade cancel it forward into a kick, slide, evade cancel, and then aim back the way you came. Basically, criss-cross across the screen between Power Shot firings. This keeps the enemies lined up so you hit all of them.
Weltall Zero
Member
Thanks, I also want to confirm that it works perfectly EU<->US, as I just bought the EU Vita version and tried it.
SpaceBridge
Member
Wish there was a demo. I'm still interested in this game, but I'm still on the fence, even after the price drop.
Karsticles
Member
If you like beat-em-ups at all, disavow yourself of all worry. Otherwise, share your concerns and we can talk about whether this is a good purchase for you.
SpaceBridge
Member
I don't hate beat me ups, but I do love JRPG's. I love the art style of the game, but I worry about repetition, lack of varied environments, and a good narrative to keep me going forward.
Karsticles
Member
I wouldn't call this a JRPG. If anything, it's closest to a sidescrolling Diablo II in terms of gameplay elements. It's a game you play for the sheer enjoyment of the gameplay, like a Mario game. The narrative is borderline non-existent. Environments...there are 9 levels, each of which has 2 paths. So technically, there are 18 levels. Then there is Labyrinth of Chaos, which has 99 floors of pure randomness in enemy and environment selection, which is very fresh throughout the experience (so far - 14 floors in).
Let me know if you have other questions. For me, this is a GotY contender. That's just me, though.
I'm also on the fence.
I'm curious to hear where the replay value is coming from for fans of this game. There's a bit of a min-maxer in me who can enjoy seeing a build come together as planned, but if timing/execution/positioning/pattern-recognition (read: skill-based gameplay) isn't really imperative from the get-go, I'm probably going to quickly lose interest. I hear that it's not until very late that the game forces you to play smart, and I'm mostly worried that the trudge to higher-difficulties and the LoC will not seem worth the time-commitment for me. And then, once you hit level 99 and are tackling end-game levels... does the game maintain any real challenge beyond time-attacking and patient equipment grinding? Or is that where people get bored and start a new class?
Two side questions as well:
I'm curious to hear where the replay value is coming from for fans of this game. There's a bit of a min-maxer in me who can enjoy seeing a build come together as planned, but if timing/execution/positioning/pattern-recognition (read: skill-based gameplay) isn't really imperative from the get-go, I'm probably going to quickly lose interest. I hear that it's not until very late that the game forces you to play smart, and I'm mostly worried that the trudge to higher-difficulties and the LoC will not seem worth the time-commitment for me. And then, once you hit level 99 and are tackling end-game levels... does the game maintain any real challenge beyond time-attacking and patient equipment grinding? Or is that where people get bored and start a new class?
Two side questions as well:
- Can you freely set your colour-palette, or do those only change when you have multiples of the same class on screen?
- What are people noticing in terms of character usage/popularity? Any class particularly under-played?
Karsticles
Member
This is a game for you, then. Everything is very skill-based, and the game continually ups its ante. The people who say you can grind through most of the game are right, but you don't need to grind through the game. Let's put it this way: some people come in this thread and complain that they had to grind out better gear to win a fight. Those people need to get good at the game.
There are classes that take more skill than others. The fighter is probably the easiest to play, followed by the Dwarf, and then I would say that everything else is pretty demanding in terms of successful gameplay. In terms of the gameplay, enemies have the kinds of tells a skillful player desires an action game to have, and everything is avoidable, but not necessarily easy to avoid (read: fuck you, Red Dragon stomp aftermaths).
Definitely not true. Though your play through the first round of levels is all kind of a "training mode", so it's not necessarily hard. Things get challenging once you hit level 10 of 18, which is about 1.5 hours of play if you are good at games.
I can't factually answer this, but I can say the following: my Sorceress is level 92 right now, with all the best gear available to her, and level 9 of the Labyrinth of Chaos kicks my ass thoroughly. With 90 more levels to go, and each one getting progressively harder, I find it hard to believe that the game ever becomes extremely easy unless you have a 4-man coordinated team. That I can find believable, since some character synergies are extremely good.
You can change your character to one of...5 colors? Maybe 6, I forget. You choose this at character creation, and you can change it at any time you are in town for free.
Thanks for abating my fears. It's starting to sound like I owe it to myself to pick this up.
Then it's my destiny to rep the Dwarf, haha. Naw, I'll try everyone out. Elf looked like the most fun from a technical standpoint, but I really couldn't find much in terms of in-depth character breakdowns to help a prospective buyer decide in advance. I imagine that the first 9 levels do that well-enough on their own.
Then it's my destiny to rep the Dwarf, haha. Naw, I'll try everyone out. Elf looked like the most fun from a technical standpoint, but I really couldn't find much in terms of in-depth character breakdowns to help a prospective buyer decide in advance. I imagine that the first 9 levels do that well-enough on their own.
On normal difficulty the game is cakewalk no matter how you play with whichever character. It's practically night and day once you move on to hard. Once you move into the LoC things change quite a bit, there's more emphasis on survival and setting up your characters to be a swiss army knife. As you progress deeper enemies get stronger so a class setup that worked in the regular game might not work anymore. I've had to refine my strategy a few times as a solo sorceress until I settled onto one setup at around floor 60.
Karsticles
Member
If you like fighting games, the Elf and Amazon are the most technical. The first 9 levels give you only an "okay" idea of how all the characters play, since most characters get their signature skill at around level 15. These often fundamentally change how a character works.
I think the game has some challenging moments on the normal B paths. You can't tell me it's not reasonable to Game Over your first time against the Red Dragon if you go right to the B paths when they open up.
Seraphis Cain
bad gameplay lol
I think the game has some challenging moments on the normal B paths. You can't tell me it's not reasonable to Game Over your first time against the Red Dragon if you go right to the B paths when they open up.
Yeah, this. Especially if you're soloing. The Wraith is a motherfucker too.
One of my allies has her weapons and items broken, any way I can fix 'em and can I also give items to allies?
Sucks that those two bosses have a sort of time limit to them. But it only makes you want to get stronger and fight harder I suppose.
Sucks that those two bosses have a sort of time limit to them. But it only makes you want to get stronger and fight harder I suppose.
Karsticles
Member
Yeah, and a lot of it is class dependent. Rabbit as an Elf? Goddamn hard to hit it with arrows consistently. Kraken as the Amazon? Gah!
An NPC? Nope. They're meant to be transitory.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
By "gah!" you mean "gah! so easy!", right? 'Cause I agree the rabbit is a pain with the elf, but the Kraken literally melts before the Amazon's sheer DPS machine. I only ever struggled against it with the Wizard anyway (and I probably had a crappy lightning rod which didn't help), but he's a total joke with the Amazon, never seen any boss die so fast.
Rabbit as an Elf is really really easy. Salamander oil + jump charged shots. And I can't think of a single boss fight that the amazon has a problem with.
Karsticles
Member
I'm talking about low levels when you don't know what you're doing.
Check their inventory, they might have other bags with stuff. You can't give them/repair items but you can switch equipped bags and keep them with you for a while longer (if you really like them, if not just boot them and rez others hehe).
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Is the us patch out, yet? Amazon kills everything played right in seconds lol. Elf as well.
Karsticles
Member
Not yet.
Karsticles
Member
I do not understand your post.
SpaceBridge
Member
Just bought the game. Hope I like it.
Likewise.
I notice there's a red Sorceress, so I can't resist repping my avatar by naming her I-No and writing really trollish quotes.
Karsticles
Member
I'm glad to see you both bought in.
I-No is better than some of the Sorceress names you will see out there...
SpaceBridge
Member
I'm glad to see you both bought in.
I-No is better than some of the Sorceress names you will see out there...
Any beginners tips? (Still haven't opened the game)
Karsticles
Member
Let's see if I can come up with 10:
1) Don't sell gear, even bad gear, early on. You will get 9 bags to put equipment in. Try to get 5+ of them filled by the time you beat level 9.
2) Always Pray!
3) Chaining levels is the best way to get XP. You unlock the ability to chain after you beat level 9.
4) Enemy projectiles can usually be hit back at their creator.
5) Even if you don't want to use a crossbow or bomb, watch out - Goblins like to pick them up and use them. Skeletons love to use crossbows, and blue skeletons (after level 9) with crossbows are a menace.
6) Go easy on the resurrections. They cost exponentially more gold after each use.
7) Don't worry too much about skill allocation. Experiment! Once you beat the game, you can earn re-specs.
8) NPC AI is not good right now. However, if you plan on playing multiple characters, level one to the ~50s and then get some NPCs from that level range. You can use them for a new character to speed up a new game.
9) With each difficulty, you get new prayers. You can "log on" as your high level character to get a high level prayer, and then swap back to the low level character while retaining the benefits.
10) Before you repair, swap out old gear for new gear. It saves you a repair bill if the broken stuff will just be tossed away.
CrazyTank940
Member
Even more fitting when you realize Japanese audio Sorceress is the same VA as I-No
Haha, I thought it sounded too good to just be a coincidence.
ATXAlchemy
Member
Get it for the Red Dragon and Archdemon, then. Personally, the annoying bosses are Wraith and Archdemon, followed by Red Dragon. So why not get a skill that helps you on bosses that you're having a hard(er) time?
It should also help spell casting from getting interrupted and your Amazon partner since it stops your party from staggering. 75% damage reduction for an entire minute with the Chaos Staff of Protection is very nice.
I just put the Ice Prison damage there since people usually argue that it's one of the strengths of IP over Gravity while it's usually the reverse. Gravity and IP's function overlap too much.
I'd never ever have a bag that doesn't have that Monocle that has 50% chance to reduce MP cost to 0. Especially as a Solo Sorceress. MP cost is proportional to the durability taken by your attacks. It essentially doubles weapon durability which should reduce bag-switching reliance.
Man I am just in love with the game now. Finally get everything with the allies, Online play, food eats, weapons, rune stones, items etc. Went adventuring for 10 stages back to back and it was super addictive. Loving the Dwarf even more because of his throw ability, so good with shockwaves.
Anyway I think it's a little weird they don't treat NPC and online player separately , I mean when I turn join off so NPC's can't join it turns out online players can't join my game as well, or maybe I was just unfortunately to not have anyone join me.
The wraith, red dragon and kraken are giving me a lot of trouble. Always end up leaving the stage without killing them, even with online play. Any tips to handle them more effectively?
Also the killer wabbit..... DEAD. XD
Anyway I think it's a little weird they don't treat NPC and online player separately , I mean when I turn join off so NPC's can't join it turns out online players can't join my game as well, or maybe I was just unfortunately to not have anyone join me.
The wraith, red dragon and kraken are giving me a lot of trouble. Always end up leaving the stage without killing them, even with online play. Any tips to handle them more effectively?
Also the killer wabbit..... DEAD. XD
ATXAlchemy
Member
If you're on version 1.04, it's in Game Settings 2.
Errrrrrr bought the Euro release version. I'm guessing it's something I have to tinker with on options?
So I bought this game last friday, and have gotten to level 15 with my Dwarf, and I am not quite feeling it. Not bad, but I just feel that there is little to no strategy with the fighting. Just press square a lot of times and sometimes add up/down and then the occational dodge here and there. I generally can't see anything on the screen (vita) as it is total caos from me and my allies actions, so timing my attacks are not worth it. I don't see how I can actually master this game with everything going on on the screen.
And looting is good, so thats a pluss. Is ther any other character which is more strategic?(I do not want to give up on this game already).
And looting is good, so thats a pluss. Is ther any other character which is more strategic?(I do not want to give up on this game already).
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