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[Zornica]

When the new EP votes for their choice of President, while not guaranteed, I cannot see the heads of government going against the EPs choice. Realistically Schulz or Junker.
So practically you vote for the president just as directly most people vote for the leader of government or head of state in most EU countries.

I wish I could just vote for Schulz and be done with it. Even though he isn't nearly as left as he should be... at least he's more left than junker. We don't need another X years of pure austerity in europe.


After I read the whole thread and shaking my head on several occasions I have to wonder.

How exactly is voting for an anti-eu party helping your country to get out of the eu? I just don't get it. Do you want to piss everybody off until they kick you out?

It's always surprising to me how people fail to see the irony. Everybody complains about "useless parliamentarians" but they're all still willing to vote for the most useless ones again and again? It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. More anger leads to more useless votes leads to more anger.

It's absolutely disgusting how they accumulate votes by entirely bypassing the main issue. Our out-right party's entire campaign is built around punishing the government. It's not even about the EU. I feel like vomiting every time I see one of their election posters.

edit:
another decision helper:
http://www.euvox.eu/

 

[Tugatrix]

In Germany we don't vote for the chancellor either, we vote parties into parliament which then in turn votes to choose the chancellor. Same in the UK and many other EU countries.

When the new EP votes for their choice of President, while not guaranteed, I cannot see the heads of government going against the EPs choice. Realistically Schulz or Junker.
So practically you vote for the president just as directly most people vote for the leader of government or head of state in most EU countries.
No difference, and lots of faux outrage.

Much like in Portugal, only we call it prime minister. The problem is, that you don't vote directly for SD or EPP, you vote for a party in you country, he may be fitted to major European party or not. Here the campaign doesn't refer those European parties, they just refer them selves. So unless we made the elections directly to these European parties or won't democratic

 

[QuicheFontaine]

http://www.jef.de/jef/news/europaeer-ueberall-moechten-ihre-kandidaten-sehen/

"Every year millions of Europeans watch the Euro Vision Song Contest - a clear sign that many millions of people interested in European events" explains Linn Selle, Secretary General of JEF-Germany which has launched the German petition that already received more than 13.000 signatures in four days.

Yep. A clear sign.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Much like in Portugal, only we call it prime minister. The problem is, that you don't vote directly for SD or EPP, you vote for a party in you country, he may be fitted to major European party or not. Here the campaign doesn't refer those European parties, they just refer them selves. So unless we made the elections directly to these European parties or won't democratic

While I can understand that caveat.
I would say for a vast majority of parties in the 4 main groups it's a foregone conclusion what group they will decide to join again in the next parliament.
In Germany at least the SPD, the Green Party and the Pirate Party have election posters with their respective presidential candidates. I haven't seen the CDU campaign for Junker or the liberals campaign for Vernhofstadt, which is a great shame!

Yep. A clear sign.

Weak argument is weak, no question about it.
Nice of you to find the weakest link.

 

[nubbe]

I shall vote for the Swedish Pirateparty
There's no other choice IN MY HONEST OPINION

 

[ComputerMKII]

I wish I could just vote for Schulz and be done with it. Even though he isn't nearly as left as he should be... at least he's more left than junker. We don't need another X years of pure austerity in europe.


After I read the whole thread and shaking my head on several occasions I have to wonder.

How exactly is voting for an anti-eu party helping your country to get out of the eu? I just don't get it. Do you want to piss everybody off until they kick you out?

It's always surprising to me how people fail to see the irony. Everybody complains about "useless parliamentarians" but they're all still willing to vote for the most useless ones again and again? It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. More anger leads to more useless votes leads to more anger.

It's absolutely disgusting how they accumulate votes by entirely bypassing the main issue. Our out-right party's entire campaign is built around punishing the government. It's not even about the EU. I feel like vomiting every time I see one of their election posters.

edit:
another decision helper:
http://www.euvox.eu/

Wait, I did not write the post you've quoted

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Weak argument is weak, no question about it.
Nice of you to find the weakest link.

Welcome ;-)

If they could somehow combine the EP elections with Eurovision. Well, then we'd really be talking.

 

[Zornica]

Wait, I did not write the post you've quoted

Fixed
sorry for the mix up. I deleted a few posts I wanted to quote initially but than didn't.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Wait, I did not write the post you've quoted

?

BBC Guide to the 2014 European and local elections

Why do the European elections matter?
Ecologist Party flash mob at cathedral in Strasbourg,
The European Parliament is the only directly-elected body in the European Union. So it is the one chance you get to to decide who represents you. The European Parliament has more power than it used to, although most EU legislation still comes from the unelected European Commission. Nobody wins the European elections - there are no government and opposition benches like at Westminster. But the make-up of the new Parliament is likely to have a decisive influence on the future direction of the EU - particularly if, as expected, there is a large block of Eurosceptic MEPs. In the UK, the result can have a big impact on a party's mood and their leader's prospects ahead of the 2015 general election. Check out their election broadcasts to get a feel for how they are pitching it.

 

[Dougald]

Yep. A clear sign.

What an odd comparison to make, it's more a clear sign that people love their TV talent shows

 

[Tugatrix]

While I can understand that caveat.
I would say for a vast majority of parties in the 4 main groups it's a foregone conclusion what group they will decide to join again in the next parliament.
In Germany at least the SPD, the Green Party and the Pirate Party have election posters with their respective presidential candidates. I haven't seen the CDU campaign for Junker or the liberals campaign for Vernhofstadt, which is a great shame!



Weak argument is weak, no question about it.
Nice of you to find the weakest link.

They are actually 6, I'm going to vote for a party in GUE-NGL that wasn't invited to be present on the debate.

That is true here too, nothing points to the European parties, the only acknowledge of it is Schultz scheduling a campaign day here

Edit:

The american debate model is not good, is more like a interview, even the candidates complained

 

[anonymous_abc]

They are actually 6, I'm going to vote for a party in GUE-NGL that wasn't invited to be present on the debate.

It seems unlikely that EDF and ECR will stay as they are now after the elections.

 

[Zornica]

In case somebody missed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhafgcPeXes


Why isn't something like that on national television? way more interesting and significant than our own jokers.

 

[Jucksalbe]

In case somebody missed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhafgcPeXes

Thanks. I only knew about the debate next week.

 

[Zornica]

I wonder, If they EPP were to loose against schulz, would they kick out their most right wing clowns? (aka orban and berlusconi). It's quite obvious that both their parties are only still in the EPP because the they needs their votes to win. Kinda pathetic.

 

[CyclopsRock]

In case somebody missed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhafgcPeXes


Why isn't something like that on national television? way more interesting and significant than our own jokers.

Significant to whom? We don't vote for them. It's only significant to the future MEPs.

 

[anonymous_abc]

I wonder, If they EPP were to loose against schulz, would they kick out their most right wing clowns? (aka orban and berlusconi). It's quite obvious that both their parties are only still in the EPP because the they needs their votes to win. Kinda pathetic.

I would say both seems unlikely currently. But it's a nice question to ask the centre right parties while they are campaigning, how they justify working with those muppets.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I'm listening to the debate now. Cripes, Verhofstadt sounds like an absolute tyrant. In relative terms.

Edit: I liked the audience laughing when Juncker said that "the real power lies with the citizens".

Edit2: At various points, literally everyone of these people has said something that makes me not want to vote for them. I guess it's a good job I don't have a vote!

 

[Zornica]

Significant to whom? We don't vote for them. It's only significant to the future MEPs.

I didn't realize that you are not part of the EU and whatever the council does doesn't effect your country and therefore your life in any meaningful way.

yes, we vote for them, indirectly but still. At least it's an upgrade to what we, the voters, had last election.

Even if we can't vote for them directly, it still matters a great deal.
Is the house of lords also meaningless because you can't vote for every single mp?

 

[SquiddyCracker]

edit: wrong thread

 

[CyclopsRock]

I didn't realize that you are not part of the EU and whatever the council does doesn't effect your country and therefore your life in any meaningful way.

yes, we vote for them, indirectly but still. At least it's an upgrade to what we, the voters, had last election.

Even if we can't vote for them directly, it still matters a great deal.
Is the house of lords also meaningless because you can't vote for every single mp?

I didn't say the president was irrelevant, I said the debate wasn't significant to us. I'd argue that a debate amongst Lords about who the lead them (not that they have a leader, but let's pretend) would, indeed, be totally without significance.

Edit: To clarify, if you love one candidate, and hate another, what do you do with that information?

 

[Tugatrix]

If france don't win in the finals I swear I won't watch next years contest.

Wrong topic pal

 

[anonymous_abc]

I didn't say the president was irrelevant, I said the debate wasn't significant to us. I'd argue that a debate amongst Lords about who the lead them (not that they have a leader, but let's pretend) would, indeed, be totally without significance.

Edit: To clarify, if you love one candidate, and hate another, what do you do with that information?

It might be more complicated for you in the UK, as who do you vote for if you like Junker? But for me in Germany it would be easy, CDU.
If you like Schulz you could vote labour

Spoiler

lol

.

 

[CyclopsRock]

It might be more complicated for you in the UK, as who do you vote for if you like Junker? But for me in Germany it would be easy, CDU.
If you like Schulz you could vote labour

Spoiler

lol

.

It's tricky, because I'm not too fussed about national lines - they all said things that I found awful, but they all (except Keller, who was just stating inane platitudes the entire time) said something I liked, too. They were all being utter cowards over the Putin question except Verhofstadt - but then, he was the guy who was saying that they could use Eurobonds to corral countries that weren't "reforming" properly.

 

[d'artagnan]

I'm voting and the reality is that this European election has particular significance in Scotland as it leads almost immediately into the official referendum campaign which formally starts on the 30th May. It's the last election of any kind in Scotland prior to the referendum vote and may give some guidance on how the vote is going to go in September - plus the outcome of the European vote in England will also have some impact on the campaign and referendum vote if UKIP come first in England. A UKIP victory elsewhere will push a not insignificant number of Don't Knows towards Yes and will cause some No's to waver.

Currently Scotland has six MEPs (it would probably have about twelve post-independence due to how MEPs are allocated - currently it gets its representation as a region of the UK, but independent nations get proportionately more representation and countries of a similar size population-wise compared to Scotland get around a dozen MEPs).

Two are SNP, two are Labour and one is a Lib-Dem. It's expected that the Lib-Dems will lose their seat in Scotland which means its a three-way fight between the SNP, Greens and UKIP for the sixth seat. The SNP will probably edge it slightly for the final seat, but due to how the seats are allocated they might just miss out leaving it to be a tight battle between the Greens and UKIP. At the moment, the only election literature I've received through the door is for the Greens and UKIP which would suggest both parties are making a real push for the final seat - I'm a member of the Scottish Greens myself so I already know which way I'm likely to vote although I might vote SNP if it looks like UKIP are polling ahead of the Greens in order to stop them getting the final seat.

Potentially, half Scotland's representation in the European Parliament would be pro-independence. What will be most interesting will be the vote share between pro-independence and anti-independence parties. Realistically, unionist parties will wind up with a higher vote share even if simply because more parties are anti-independence than pro-, but if the pro-independence share tops 40% then it really is on like Donkey Kong.

The real wildcard however is voter turnout. Traditionally, voter turn-out in European elections is fairly low but I've seen reports that voter registration is at an all-time high in Scotland on the back of the referendum debate (I recall reading that about 80% of 16/17 year olds are now registered to vote even though the don't get a vote in the European elections, just on the referendum) and that's before the real push to get people registered in advance of the referendum begins.

As all the polling indicates that Yes voters are more likely to vote in September and many are highly enthused and actively engaged in the political process at the moment (many for the the first time) then there exists the possibility that voter turnout in Scotland on 22nd May being noticeably higher than normal for a European election. If Yes voters turn out en masse for on the 22nd then we could be looking at the possibility of pro-independence parties topping 50% vote share as I'd speculate that Yes voters are more likely to vote later this month than No voters.

I fully accept that this is unlikely, but the level of political engagement in Scotland is at a high at the moment. If it does occur though, then there are more than a few people who will be collectively shitting massive bricks...

 

[Zornica]

Edit: To clarify, if you love one candidate, and hate another, what do you do with that information?

I'd at least want to know who is going to be in charge for the next few years and what there is to expect from that person.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I'd at least want to know who is going to be in charge for the next few years and what there is to expect from that person.

And it's very nice of them to tell us, but we still can't choose them, nor can we hold them to account if they fail to deliver on their promises (or even if they 180 entirely). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should be uninformed or that it's a joke position - but it's precisely because it is such an important role that it's such a crying shame that we don't actually get a say. Having a televised debate for a contest we can't vote in just seems like they're sort of taking the piss out of us a bit.

 

[Zornica]

another live discussion between juncker and schulz
http://tvthek.orf.at/live/Das-tvDuell-zur-Europawahl-Jean-Claude-Juncker-Martin-Schulz/7883607
or
http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/beit...itrag/livevideo/1822600/Das-ZDF-im-Livestream
(german only)

edit: it's over.

edit2: also: screw you merkel!

 

[CyclopsRock]

This isn't directly relevant to the thread but it seems as good a time as any.

I know that there is a lower limit of 15% on VAT across the EU. But I'm also pretty sure that different countries make different things VAT exempt. Would it be possible for a country to basically make everything VAT exempt and then apply their own levels of transaction tax to things (as they do with cigarettes and alcohol etc)?

 

[Acidote]

Ahh, the elections for the golden retirement of corrupt and inept politicians!

 

[Funky Papa]

Ahh, the elections for the golden retirement of corrupt and inept politicians!

Sadly the case of Spain (for those not in the know, the Spanish representation is largely made of politicians who fell in disgrace, yet they remained too powerful and/or were owed some favours), but some other countries actually try to send politicians who give a shit about their jobs.

 

[Acorn]

This isn't directly relevant to the thread but it seems as good a time as any.

I know that there is a lower limit of 15% on VAT across the EU. But I'm also pretty sure that different countries make different things VAT exempt. Would it be possible for a country to basically make everything VAT exempt and then apply their own levels of transaction tax to things (as they do with cigarettes and alcohol etc)?

I'm pretty sure you can't make new vat exemptions. Only reason I say this is because the tories brought it up that we would lose exemptions on baby clothing etc as an independent nation.

 

[Tugatrix]

Sadly the case of Spain (for those not in the know, the Spanish representation is largely made of politicians who fell in disgrace, yet they remained too powerful and/or were owed some favours), but some other countries actually try to send politicians who give a shit about their jobs.

In Portugal they send parties internal opposition, genius aren't they?

 

[anonymous_abc]

Ahh, the elections for the golden retirement of corrupt and inept politicians!

I'll just throw this out there, you know just brainstorming.
You could just decide to actually vote for a non corrupt and inept politician. They do exist you know.

 

[RangerX]

Here in Ireland posters have been plastered over every lamp post for the last month. You can't go outside with out seeing the leering faces of these fucking crooks. Hopefully the Labour party and Fine Gael suffer hugely as they've cut public services to the bone in this country. I'll probably vote for sinn fein or people before profit,not that will do much good. The whole system needs to change. I'm a classical anarchist so I think the whole centralised state system is intrinsically corrupt. The EU are trying to dismantle the welfare state that Europe should be so proud of. Its sickening.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Here in Ireland posters have been plastered over every lamp post for the last month. You can't go outside with out seeing the leering faces of these fucking crooks. Hopefully the Labour party and Fine Gael suffer hugely as they've cut public services to the bone in this country. I'll probably vote for sinn fein or people before profit,not that will do much good. The whole system needs to change. I'm a classical anarchist so I think the whole centralised state system is intrinsically corrupt. The EU are trying to dismantle the welfare state that Europe should be so proud of. Its sickening.

I feel like a broken record, but why the frack do people insist that voting for crooks is the only option they have?
In Ireland you have 10 parties and independents on the ballot (according to wikipedia).
Are you seriously trying to tell me all the people in all these parties are crooks?
Without knowing anything about Irish politics or the following party, but "People Before Profit Alliance" sounds like a good vote to me. Better than not going and only complaining any day.

On a more general note:

Also it really gets under my skin how everyone thinks they are entitled to constantly complain. What the frack do you expect? Should everyone just automatically work towards whatever you desire or think is right? Have you ever considered becoming active and actually trying to change something yourself?
Not voting and then complaining how nothing changes is a fracking joke.
Uhoh the EU has problems lets just vote for bloody racists I'm sure everything will work out just fine, no of course I am not a racist but damn the establishment....
Unelected Eurocrats: have you ever seen Yes Minister? Entirely accurate description of how politics and governance works. No different in Brussels than in Westminster. Would you rather vote for every civil servant in the food chain? I'm sure you would, you could complain about even more elections and greedy politicians.
[/rant]

 

[Walshicus]

I feel like a broken record, but why the frack do people insist that voting for crooks is the only option they have?
In Ireland you have 10 parties and independents on the ballot (according to wikipedia).
Are you seriously trying to tell me all the people in all these parties are crooks?
Without knowing anything about Irish politics or the following party, but "People Before Profit Alliance" sounds like a good vote to me. Better than not going and only complaining any day.

On a more general note:

Also it really gets under my skin how everyone thinks they are entitled to constantly complain. What the frack do you expect? Should everyone just automatically work towards whatever you desire or think is right? Have you ever considered becoming active and actually trying to change something yourself?
Not voting and then complaining how nothing changes is a fracking joke.
Uhoh the EU has problems lets just vote for bloody racists I'm sure everything will work out just fine, no of course I am not a racist but damn the establishment....
Unelected Eurocrats: have you ever seen Yes Minister? Entirely accurate description of how politics and governance works. No different in Brussels than in Westminster. Would you rather vote for every civil servant in the food chain? I'm sure you would, you could complain about even more elections and greedy politicians.
[/rant]

It's easier to bitch than it is to get out there and *do* something.

 

[Acidote]

In Portugal they send parties internal opposition, genius aren't they?

We're so much like the others!

I'll just throw this out there, you know just brainstorming.
You could just decide to actually vote for a non corrupt and inept politician. They do exist you know.

Pretty much this:

Sadly the case of Spain (for those not in the know, the Spanish representation is largely made of politicians who fell in disgrace, yet they remained too powerful and/or were owed some favours), but some other countries actually try to send politicians who give a shit about their jobs.

 

[Funky Papa]

I'll just throw this out there, you know just brainstorming.
You could just decide to actually vote for a non corrupt and inept politician. They do exist you know.

Yup. Personally I'm rather happy with these elections. There are a crapload of new parties in Spain, most of them born out the people's frustration with the current duopoly. Even if most of them are not worth a vote, they have a huge potential for disruption, which is why I'll most probably vote for the Citizen Network X Party, an open, anticorruption platform led by notorious leakster Hervé Falciani.

Maybe it'll turn out to be a shitty party, but at this moment the only useful vote is the one that may help to break the current status quo.

 

[EmiPrime]

100% S&D, 87% Greens/EFA on myvote

79% Green Party, 73% Lib Dems on euandi

Lifelong Lib Dem voter but I will be voting Green Party next week. As someone with parents from two different European countries I have always been rather fond of the EU and I would be concerned about these far right "eurosceptic" racist parties hovering up seats but they never turn up for votes and will never achieve their aims so they're a bit of a paper tiger. People voting for UKIP or FN may as well be drawing massive cocks on their ballot for all the good it will do.

 

[Guerilla]

Ahh, the elections for the golden retirement of corrupt and inept politicians!

...who sit on their asses doing nothing while the Counsil decides everything. EU "democracy".

 

[milena87]

Hmm, that test pretty much told me what I already knew: that I'm closer to the Partito Democratico.

Now, it would be much simpler to vote for them if they actually worked towards what they say they believe in...

But truly, not much choice here in Italy. I certainly wouldn't vote for Forza Italia. I cry inside every time I see the polls giving Berlu & Co around 20%.

 

[Walshicus]

...who sit on their asses doing nothing while the Counsil decides everything. EU "democracy".

If you're voting in people who sit on their arses, perhaps you need to *stop* voting in people who sit on their arses. Plenty of them are doing damn fine work for YOU:
http://www.votewatch.eu/en/european-parliament-latest-votes.html

 

[Guerilla]

If you're voting in people who sit on their arses, perhaps you need to *stop* voting in people who sit on their arses. Plenty of them are doing damn fine work for YOU:
http://www.votewatch.eu/en/european-parliament-latest-votes.html

They can't do shit, the entire EU system is purposely undemocratic. EU is nothing but a neoliberal trojan horse to strip European citizens of their rights rob them of their national wealth. It funny how people actually believe that the parliament has any real power.

 

[Zornica]

They can't do shit, the entire EU system is purposely undemocratic. EU is nothing but a neoliberal trojan horse to strip European citizens of their rights rob them of their national wealth. It funny how people actually believe that the parliament has any real power.

The EU is only neo liberal because neo liberal voters are the only ones who realize that they can make a change by voting, and therefore they are the only ones who go to elections regularly. And thanks to their destructive/stupid austerity politics, people get desperate and turn towards even more extreme right wing parties, the opposition gets split into smaller and smaller chunks and the whole thing becomes a mess. Scary how well it works. To bad local governments seem unable to communicate the issue to their voters, but that's mostly because they need the EU to blame for everything they fucked up.

thankfully there's an ultimate test coming up soon, regarding the democratic power of the parliament and the EU as a whole.
After Merkel decided that the council president should be nominated by her and not the parliament last week, it will be interesting to watch who's going to have the upper hand in the end.

Until than, no harm in voting for genuine parties.
Just remember, voting for protest bullshit isn't only harming yourself, you are also screwing over everyone else in Europe and it won't accomplish anything. You are not sending a message, you are only making things more difficult for everybody, including yourself.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Without knowing anything about Irish politics or the following party, but "People Before Profit Alliance" sounds like a good vote to me. Better than not going and only complaining any day.

I'll probably vote for sinn fein or people before profit

Hmpph?

 

[obin_gam]

They can't do shit, the entire EU system is purposely undemocratic. EU is nothing but a neoliberal trojan horse to strip European citizens of their rights rob them of their national wealth. It funny how people actually believe that the parliament has any real power.

The hell are you talking about? In this case you can not be more wrong.

 

[Walshicus]

They can't do shit, the entire EU system is purposely undemocratic. EU is nothing but a neoliberal trojan horse to strip European citizens of their rights rob them of their national wealth. It funny how people actually believe that the parliament has any real power.

That's funny considering the sheer number of instances in which it's been the EU rather than a state government which has expanded or defended *my* rights as a worker, as a consumer and as a citizen.

 

[Arksy]

UKIP set to win in the UK? God damn that party has grown. Good stuff. Getting out of the EU should be the UKs first priority.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

UKIP set to win in the UK? God damn that party has grown. Good stuff. Getting out of the EU should be the UKs first priority.

They don't have a single seat in Westminster and probabbly will never gain one, and even if they did they wouldn't hold enough seats to push through such an agenda.