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FakeGAF 6: Fear the Walking Thirst

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Z

zeemumu

Member
Jobbs said:
I think this would be giving them far too much credit. As a gamer, my instinct (especially on first play) is to follow the path of least resistance. The path of least resistance in a stealth-themed game should be stealth.

I'm really annoyed by stealth-centric games that don't properly encourage or reward stealth. Hitman games are/were like this too (haven't played the last two) to a ludicrous degree.
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It encourages stealth by giving you a better ending. What sense of accomplishment or reward would you get if stealth was the easiest part of the game and got you the best ending while combat was the hardest and got you a shit ending not worth your time? What incentive is there to try harder to get a worse ending? If you're going to do that, don't even give players the freedom to choose. Just lock them into a linear experience.
 
V

Vazra

irresponsible vagina leak
Nomadic Sparks said:
So does anyone remember TrickStyle?

It was a Dreamcast game that was like hoverboard trick simulator iirc

It's been on GoG for quite awhile and no one has said anything about it on GAF or Twitter.

I'm sure there is someone on GAF has fond memories of playing it, right?

Someone, right?
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I played the PC demo that came in a magazine. It was fun when I played it at the time but no idea how it aged. Its $5.99 on GoG so I dont think it would be a big waste if you dont enjoy it. I expect some things to feel dated but there should be some fun to be had there.
 
N

Nomadic Sparks

Banned
Vazra said:
I played the PC demo that came in a magazine. It was fun when I played it at the time but no idea how it aged. Its $5.99 on GoG so I dont think it would be a big waste if you dont enjoy it. I expect some things to feel dated but there should be some fun to be had there.
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I wish it was on Steam tbh

At least put in Steam Cheevos in the game that can only be unlocked when you do crazy tricks that prove you spent too much time on the game.

AND DISCO MUSIC :D
 
J

Jobbs

Banned
liliththepale said:
I feel like speaks more to you as a player than them as designers in this instance. Mostly because I feel like you're overblowing the dissonance. Personally I don't remember it being a problem.

Then again I'm not very confrontational in games like this. I prefer finding alternate paths if I can.
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It's been quite a while since I played it, so I don't remember everything clearly, but I know "losing patience with sneaking and just killing everyone" was a frequent occurrence. If stealth is discouraged by the game's own design but encouraged by its marketing and character/world design then it's a problem.

I liked The Last of Us' handling of stealth. It was rarely to your advantage to just ignore stealth aspects all together. The game pushed back enough that you'd want to try and be a bit strategic or even avoid combat at times. That said, I did play on one difficulty up (following the advice of people who said this was the better experience) so take it for what it's worth.

zeemumu said:
It encourages stealth by giving you a better ending. What sense of accomplishment or reward would you get if stealth was the easiest part of the game and got you the best ending while combat was the hardest and got you a shit ending not worth your time? What incentive is there to try harder to get a worse ending? If you're going to do that, don't even give players the freedom to choose. Just lock them into a linear experience.
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It's probably something I'm hung up on more than most people. But I just feel weird when I'm sneaking around patiently and for no reason other than to create my own challenge.

--

The dissonance I speak of here reminds me of the old Sonic the Hedgehog games. The character controls and marketing of the game encouraged speed, but the level design punished you relentlessly if you went fast.

You Know Nothing said:
Survivor is the best Last of Us difficulty.

Of course, after you've upgraded everything and play a new game+ the challenge is virtually non existent. I haven't played the remaster but Grounded difficulty just sounds unfair and not fun.
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I beat TLOU on grounded. I'm 2 legit. 2 legit 2 quit, you might even say.

Bricks are your friend.

And the remaster is worth playing if you are a big fan of the game. The experience is so much better -- It's gorgeous and the 60 fps adds so much to the experience.
 
Y

You Know Nothing

Member
Survivor is the best Last of Us difficulty.

Of course, after you've upgraded everything and play a new game+ the challenge is virtually non existent. I haven't played the remaster but Grounded difficulty just sounds unfair and not fun.
 
F

Freeza Under The Shower

Member
zeemumu said:
It encourages stealth by giving you a better ending. What sense of accomplishment or reward would you get if stealth was the easiest part of the game and got you the best ending while combat was the hardest and got you a shit ending not worth your time? What incentive is there to try harder to get a worse ending?
Click to expand...

There is definitely dissonance between the idea that the morally better ending somehow has more value in terms of effort than a morally vile one. Killing everyone tends to be far too easy in games that employ "stealth", by which they ruin their own desire to make the player feel smart for using stealth. ( a point taken from the design blog of Gunpoint, which is awesome )
It feels like a cheap push towards a non-rewarding 'achievement' instead of legitimate choice that leads to a result that may have been desired by the player. There is no reason to play these games as anything other than a total psychopath. Case in point: Deus Ex HR, where killing everyone is possible and reveals a very boring game if you play it that way, yet you can't avoid certain kills by certain pathways either, which is cheap. The original had more degrees of freedom in that respect.
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
Jobbs said:
It's probably something I'm hung up on more than most people. But I just feel weird when I'm sneaking around patiently and for no reason other than to create my own challenge.
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This is what gamers did back in the day. You didn't NEED that high score. You could have just finished the game and gone on your way.

The difference here is that you aren't just creating your own challenge. There's actually something to be gained from taking those alternate paths (different story elements, a different ending, etc.) and those are what the game uses to reward you. Stealth vs. Combat is just a more hands-on approach to the light side/dark side alignment system found in a lot of games. Hell, it even affects the way that you handle combat in Dark Souls.
 
N

Nomadic Sparks

Banned
I'm being serious here:

If genuinely loving disco music from the 70's makes me look gay, then I don't want to be straight anymore

The lead singer of WAR had the best 70's lead singer long hair I have ever seen and every time I see it, I want to reach from my computer screen and play with it.
 
F

FloatOn

Member
zeemumu said:
No Mirror's Edge, Assassin's Creed games, Vanquish, or The Last of Us?

Even Modern Warfare one deserves credit because, regardless of what your opinion on shooters is, it helped us escape the WWII era and was a great game.
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Mirrors edge while interesting was a one trick pony. Got pretty tired of the gimmick no matter how well they pulled it off.

Asscreed was terrible. The first game was so bad I swore I would never play one of those games again.

I never played vanquish.

My disc was fucked up on the last of us and that prevented me from playing past a certain point. It was a pretty good third person shooter though strictly speaking from mechanics I felt max payne 3 was the best in that genre. I did read a plot synopsis and I was pretty underwhelmed by the story.

I played the first two modern warfare games and once the shiny set pieces wore off I stick by my assertion that call of duty was the worst thing to happen to FPS.

A game I forgot to mention on my best of list was Alan Wake. It was one of the few I played so much that I beat in a weekend. I truly hope we get another game in that series.
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
FloatOn said:
Asscreed was terrible. The first game was so bad I swore I would never play one of those games again.

I played the first two modern warfare games and once the shiny set pieces wore off I stick by my assertion that call of duty was the worst thing to happen to FPS.
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Well that would explain why you don't like Assassin's Creed. I'd be indifferent to it if I had only played the first, but the 2nd fixed every problem that the first had and added more stuff.

And most good games ruin the genre that they were in because other people see that and start flooding us with more of the same thing because it worked out well for the other guys. WoW ruined MMO's and Modern Warfare ruined modern fps, but they weren't bad games.

WhereAreMahDragonz said:
I really want to go get a Big Mac as a comfort food but that would mean getting up
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Big Macs aren't worth getting up for. Order a pizza.
 
J

Jobbs

Banned
Freeza Under The Shower said:
uuurgh, and now I am reminded of that godawful ending of Far Cry 3. As if the second game ( CARE ABOUT MALARIA, DAMMIT! ) didn't get stupid enough already.
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I thought it was kind of cool that at the end
she fucked me and killed me
. That was pretty metal.

That said, Farcry is a great example of why FPS blows dick, and the more you try to have story and characterization, the more it blows. I felt no connection to the protagonist whatsoever because I could never see him, and so I didn't care about the story. You might sya this is because the story sucks, but I can't think of a single example of an FPS where I felt any connection to "me" or cared what happened to "me".
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
Jobbs said:
I thought it was kind of cool that at the end
she fucked me and killed me
. That was pretty metal.

That said, Farcry is a great example of why FPS blows dick, and the more you try to have story and characterization, the more it blows. I felt no connection to the protagonist whatsoever because I could never see him, and so I didn't care about the story. You might sya this is because the story sucks, but I can't think of a single example of an FPS where I felt any connection to "me" or cared what happened to "me".
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That's not much better than F.E.A.R. 2's ending

No death, you just get fucked, in every sense of the word.
 
J

Jobbs

Banned
Just watched Sunday's FTWD.

I'm tired of plotlines being driven by people behaving stupidly.

On the plus side, I think it speaks to the writing that I wasn't surprised when Strand kissed the one guy. I think they employed some clever subcommunication long in advance of it such that the seed was planted.

I'm also really enjoying Nick. I think he's my favorite character.
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
WhereAreMahDragonz said:
They don't deliver on base I don't think
Click to expand...

Nah for real though I'm actually considering pizza now. My advice backfired. Damn it, Em, you win this round.

Jobbs said:
Just watched Sunday's FTWD.

I'm tired of plotlines being driven by people behaving stupidly.

On the plus side, I think it speaks to the writing that I wasn't surprised when Strand kissed the one guy. I think they employed some clever subcommunication long in advance of it such that the seed was planted.

I'm also really enjoying Nick. I think he's my favorite character.
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Jobbs that's the only way that plots can be driven in the non-Left 4 Dead/28 Days Later/Dawn of the Dead remake zombie apocalypse. How else do you justify a widespread zombie apocalypse when the threat moves at about half a mile per hour? You have to fuck up and/or get surrounded if you want something to happen when your zombies can't sprint and are literally falling apart from natural decay.
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
You Know Nothing said:
Y'all need to love yourselves and stop watching The Walking Trash and its spin-offs.
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It started out fine but there are only so many stupid mistakes that you can justify at this point. The main cast has become a hardened group of murderers so they keep having to throw in new amateurs like fodder to see who's strong enough to survive and who dies instantly. Then there's zombies fuckin' sneaking up on people. They aren't trying to be stealthy. They don't care if you see them coming, and most of the time the characters are in a fuckin' forest where the floor is covered in leaves and sticks. and there are branches everywhere. You shouldn't be able to have a zombie sneak up on you like that.

I'm hyped for that Walking Dead maze coming to Universal, though.
 
J

Jobbs

Banned
WhereAreMahDragonz said:
Alicia tho
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How would you describe the characters without describing what they look like or what their profession/role on the show is?

I like Alicia very much, but would I still like her if she wasn't cute? Sure, but she wouldn't stand out.

What makes her character interesting? She's just kind of.. Normal. She's slightly angsty, but kind of a good person, I guess.. Just off the shelf. Hopefully she develops into something more interesting over time.

Lexa was more interesting by comparison.

You Know Nothing said:
Y'all need to love yourselves and stop watching The Walking Trash and its spin-offs.
Click to expand...

That I watch bad shows like this and GOT is cause for introspection. Are they bad if I enjoy them? What does "bad" mean? Why do I enjoy these but not enjoy a "good" show like Mad Men?
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
Jobbs said:
How would you describe the characters without describing what they look like or what their profession/role on the show is?

I like Alicia very much, but would I still like her if she wasn't cute? Sure, but she wouldn't stand out.

What makes her character interesting? She's just kind of.. Normal. She's slightly angsty, but kind of a good person, I guess.. Just off the shelf. Hopefully she develops into something more interesting over time.

Lexa was more interesting by comparison.
Click to expand...

I think she's supposed to be the straight man in a fucked up world. Everything's been shattered for her so she's got to try and hold it together while dealing with everyone else's bullshit. So like Rick or Lexa without any semblance of authority and a dash of teen angst because she wasn't born post-apocalypse.
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
So I'm looking up AirBnB for New York.

There's one called "Won't you stay with me in NYC" for $32/night.

I definitely won't get killed there.
 
J

Jobbs

Banned
zeemumu said:
I think she's supposed to be the straight man in a fucked up world. Everything's been shattered for her so she's got to try and hold it together while dealing with everyone else's bullshit. So like Rick or Lexa without any semblance of authority and a dash of teen angst because she wasn't born post-apocalypse.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I guess she is the foil, that's true.

You Know Nothing said:
They're whatever you want them to be.

I still need to try Mad Men.
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help

do/don't watch that if you're high.. I can see that being quite an experience
 
X

Xiao Hu

Member
I think I'll ask out a Chinese Belgian girl I met during the trip. We enjoy each other's company a lot and I feel some kind of affection for me from her side. She's cute, intelligent and she lives not far from my hometown so in case it could get serious we wouldn't be too far from each other. Wish me luck, fakers!
 
F

FUME5

Member
Vazra said:
I liked Lost Planet 1 but 2 fucked up the single player game thanks to the coop focus. The 3rd I thought it was a bad game but it doesnt really fit within LP. Kinda wish they brought Ex Troopers to US cause that one seemed fun.
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Here's the thing, I had a great time with LP2 as a co-op experience, although the unlock system was bullshit, killed that sandworm boss soooooo many times.

Some of the best mech design in recent memory too.

As for Dishonoured, I had to force myself to finish it even though it's a great game, I think I'm over stealth based games. Used to love Hitman but lost interest halfway through the last one and haven't even played the latest.

I think because the design requires so much standing / crouching etc... doing nothing but watching the AI on its route for you to be successful, and I don't have time to be standing around doing nothing in videogames to get to the good part.

Em, get the fuck out of bed, and don't give us this as an excuse:

5M15IDk.png
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
Jobbs said:
How would you describe the characters without describing what they look like or what their profession/role on the show is?

I like Alicia very much, but would I still like her if she wasn't cute? Sure, but she wouldn't stand out.

What makes her character interesting? She's just kind of.. Normal. She's slightly angsty, but kind of a good person, I guess.. Just off the shelf. Hopefully she develops into something more interesting over time.

Lexa was more interesting by comparison.



That I watch bad shows like this and GOT is cause for introspection. Are they bad if I enjoy them? What does "bad" mean? Why do I enjoy these but not enjoy a "good" show like Mad Men?
Click to expand...

Well right now she's just kind of normal, sure, but I think there's a ton of potential. Alicia is naive and inexperienced when it comes to zombies; she's the only one who's really been "sheltered" from the reality of what's happening around her. We got to see her in action a few weeks ago, but I think there's a lot of potential for her to develop gradually from "omg I'm such a hip teenager teehee" into a certifiable badass.

Last week was a huge lesson for her, and I think it'll add a chip to her shoulder that we'll see later on
 
L

liliththepale

Banned
Xiao Hu said:
I think I'll ask out a Chinese Belgian girl I met during the trip. We enjoy each other's company a lot and I feel some kind of affection for me from her side. She's cute, intelligent and she lives not far from my hometown so in case it could get serious we wouldn't be too far from each other. Wish me luck, fakers!
Click to expand...

giphy.gif


 
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