ScreenSplitter
Member
Y'all motherfuckers need Uatu
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
FANT4STIC 4OUR |OT| Fantastic 4/10
- Thread starter Toa TAK
- Start date
- Status
You're reading way too far into my argument. So, even though I directly told you that fandom isn't THE main priority, but that it can be a hugely positive factor, even the instigating factor, you're going to just tossed that out and say "it's obvious the thrust of your argument"... even as I say it's not?
"Apathy" doesn't make anything good. The best works, movies or otherwise, are by those with a creative passion for what they're doing. But they need the resources and skill to make it happen as well. I'm extremely passionate about many things, but I can't make anything good if I lack the talent or resources to realize it.
They are pieces of a larger picture, important in their own ways, and a good vision fails to come together if one of those pieces is sorely lacking.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Its not really that people dont know the names, but its that not knowing the names can, and often does, point to the larger misconceptions people cling to, and why.
Basically, it's always better to at least try to know what you're fuckin talking about before you start talking. And I don't know why that sentiment should solely be the province of film critics, to use your example. Or why using a messageboard should exempt you from doing so.
No, I'm just reading it. The fact you said it isn't one thing while specifically constructing it to be that one thing, doesn't mean it's not that one thing. You're arguing for the prioritization of fandom. It's almost entirely the focus of every one of your posts. It only got mitigated when I started answering your posts. But even then - the prioritization still pops up:
This is prioritization.
Apathy doesn't even come into play here. Dunno why it's being brought up.
birthday-suit
Banned
I kind of hate how whenever people talk about good fantastic four runs, they never talk about the characters, other than Doom.
Whats good about it?
What are some defining moments for reed, Ben, sue, and johnny?
I liked the old fantastic four comics a lot. From what I've seen,i would probably enjoy James Robinson's run. The one with the red costumes.
Hickman grand concepts and stuff don't impress me
Whats good about it?
What are some defining moments for reed, Ben, sue, and johnny?
I liked the old fantastic four comics a lot. From what I've seen,i would probably enjoy James Robinson's run. The one with the red costumes.
Hickman grand concepts and stuff don't impress me
I'll try to write up something more detailed later.
Using a message board means we're just guys shooting the shit here. This isn't the Algonquin round table. It doesn't harm a point to use a collective term for an organization. If I say the Yankees are fucking up on the field, you understand I mean the players. If I say the Yankees had a fucked up draft, you understand I mean management. I shouldn't need to list off the individuals responsible to make my point.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It doesn't have to be. But again, I don't know why trying to know what you're talking about before you start talking is too lofty a bar to set for the amount of time being spent here on this messageboard.
And if it does harm the point, it's going to be pointed out. Why shouldn't it? And the pointing it out has led to this discussion. Maybe you don't like the discussion, okay. But I think it's interesting to discover just how much of what we talk about when we talk about superhero films has is mostly trying to figure out how to validate and justify the level of fandom we possess, as opposed to actually rating the quality of the stories. To the point where we personify film studios so as to rake them for their failings as fans, as opposed to criticizing filmmakers for their failures as storytellers.
fandom isn't, nor should it be, the primary fuel for storytelling.
I have not seen a single point harmed by the use of the collective term Fox. Using collective terms is not a problem anywhere on the internet I've ever been except for in conversations with you about movie studios. You are literally the only one I've ever seen who seems to take offense at this. Do financial websites need to list off every executive at a company responsible for a miss in quarterly earnings? Do we have to list everyone in management responsible for a sports team's slide into mediocrity?
Why then is film such a different beast that if I don't know the executives names, I don't know what I'm talking about?
Well, I told you that your reading was wrong. Full-stop. Twice now.
I maintain it's important. And I went into depth explaining why it's important, and how it can be a boon for movie making.
But that's like saying I hate films with puppets and practical effects if I talked about how good computer effects can improve a film. The two are not at odds unless you wish them to be.
Yes, because it is A priority; not THE priority. It's like saying that taking your vitamins is good for your health and then claiming that I'm prioritizing vitamins over exercise and other healthy living requirements. I focused on one element because it's one that wasn't being discussed in as much detail and one with a clear and vivid divide between how someone like Josh Trank made a movie and how someone like Joss Whedon made a movie.
Because Josh Trank was apathetic about making an actual Fantastic Four movie about the Fantastic Four that Marvel owns. Because he was utterly disinterested in doing so. That's how apathy comes into play.
I think a better term for what I was doing was EMPHASIZING the importance of being faithful and passionate to the material rather than "prioritizing". It's important. Are you saying it's not?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Like I said in my initial response to you, it's not that people don't know the names of the executives, it's that not knowing the names makes it easier to indulge in the kind of shit I'm arguing against. You don't have to know the names, but the criticisms are the kind that suggest you don't actually know what you're talking about otherwise.
Not that I'm too familiar with financial websites discussing earning reports (or at least, nowhere near as much as I am entertainment news) but I'd imagine the audiences that those journalists are writing for are assumed to know enough about the specific subject that the people reading are already familiar with the makeup of those companies.
Or even over on gaming side: When people use a catch-all company name to lodge their criticisms, more often than not the thread will also end up including specific executives' names, developers' names, so on and so forth. There is a knowledge of those people's histories at play, a resume to check, and generally most people engaging in those conversations are familiar enough with that history that the shorthand doesn't get in the way or obfuscate the points of discussion. People have a working knowledge of who you're talking about and why.
Here, in Superhero-GAF, that level of sophistication and knowledge is obviously not there. So what fans here are familiar with are other fans, and those fans are apparently looking at everything through the spectrum of fandom, and as such, are using fandom as one of the primary (if not the primary) metric for success or failure. Movies by THIS studio are good because there are fans there, and they're gatekeeping to make sure bad ideas stay out. Movies by this studio are bad because there aren't enough fans there. And blaming Fox for being bad fans is a dumb form of criticism, although it feels good for someone who considers themselves a good fan.
It's a very narrow prism to force discussion of an entire industry through, using a busted metric that doesn't apply very well.
Of all the things to level at that guy, I don't know if that's a good one.
Why not? What he did with the Fantastic Four property was the very definition of apathy. With him, there was a complete absence or suppression of passion, emotion, or excitement for the actual Fantastic Four brand as anything other than a skeleton to retrofit into something entirely new and entirely different. The actual "first family" of Marvel? Their fun-loving, joyous cosmic adventures through space and time? The things that made them iconic and beloved for over 60 years?
He wasn't interested in that. He wanted to do something completely different. It could have been any property and it would have served the same purpose.
He was entirely apathetic to the established Fantastic Four universe.
I guess you're right. No self respecting journalist would make that connection...
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/07/2...-its-heroes-to-the-screen.html?referrer=&_r=0
...oh.
I get what you're saying, but your'e overanalyzing. A Feige level superfan can't hurt, and what it really means is someone who respects the material. Someone who understands the material. All movies deserve that, not just superhero movies. I would hope the executives are fans of all types of movies. It can't hurt.
Anyway,Josh Trank and Simon Kinberg and whoever hired Simon Kinberg didn't respect the material. I don't need to know Kinbergs boss's name to make that argument.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
This is the "JJ Abrams isn't a fan of Star Trek that why his movies are bad" argument again isn't it
SlowRevolution
Member
not that any of them had anything to work with, but man Kate Mara had nothing to work with.
if they'd held out a little longer most of these actors probably could've ended up in an actual Marvel movie.
if they'd held out a little longer most of these actors probably could've ended up in an actual Marvel movie.
The Outsider
Member
Fanbomba Four.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
We will see this going back to Marvel.
This means Silver Surfer and Galactus will too.
This means Silver Surfer and Galactus will too.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Oh hey, I saw the Gift today! That was a good movie, in case ya'll were wondering if anything good opened this weekend.
Well at least thanks to this, the following will be more likely...
- "Marvel's Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes, coming in 2020 as part of Phase 4 of the Marvel Cinematic Universe"
- "The X-Men TV show you've been waiting for, coming to Fox in 2016"
I was either gonna see The Gift, Rogue Nation, or Resurrection F.
And Annihilus, & Kl'rt (the Super-Skrull with the F4's powers), & Doctor Doom.
The Outsider
Member
I'm absolutely fine with a FF film rights-X-Men TV rights trade.
Took my little sister to see it today because her friend cancelled, and I figured "Why not? Can't be as bad as it seems.."
It's a 100 minute film with only about 10 minutes of actual action, and that's being generous. It rarely seems to know what it's trying to be. All the setting up of Ben and Reeds friendship is just dropped suddenly and forgotten about until much later. The scene with the Swiss Army knife is treated as if it's going to be important at some point, but is never mentioned again. Almost 90% of the film is spent dicking around with them building the machine, then more filler in the military base. They completely forget about the makeshift teleporter that Reed was building when he was found, so that whole scene and him buying parts could all have been cut.
The whole race change thing was handled fine. I liked Johnny and his dad a lot, probably the best characters in the film. Doom looked stupid as hell, exactly like that picture circulating. The rest of the characters are boring. It's a bad, boring and slow movie filled with pointless scenes, too much filler and plot points that lead nowhere.
It's a 100 minute film with only about 10 minutes of actual action, and that's being generous. It rarely seems to know what it's trying to be. All the setting up of Ben and Reeds friendship is just dropped suddenly and forgotten about until much later. The scene with the Swiss Army knife is treated as if it's going to be important at some point, but is never mentioned again. Almost 90% of the film is spent dicking around with them building the machine, then more filler in the military base. They completely forget about the makeshift teleporter that Reed was building when he was found, so that whole scene and him buying parts could all have been cut.
The whole race change thing was handled fine. I liked Johnny and his dad a lot, probably the best characters in the film. Doom looked stupid as hell, exactly like that picture circulating. The rest of the characters are boring. It's a bad, boring and slow movie filled with pointless scenes, too much filler and plot points that lead nowhere.
I feel like Marvel would throw in the caveat of it being only the live-action TV rights (which is what I assume Fox wants for their X-Men show). Then again, it's not like Marvel Animation has any future plans to use Wolverine or Deadpool on their cartoons (the last time we've seen any Fox-related characters in Marvel's recent shows was early Season 3 of Ultimate Spider-Man).
I'm just shocked that Mission Impossible could actually win this week. Not that I would mind, it's just surprising.
Colonel Nasty
Member
All shit talking aside, what a bummer. I like Trank, and the cast, how did this go so wrong?
Joel Was Right
Member
I'm sure the bad press is having an impact, but I have to wonder considering how much little marketing there has been leading to the release of this film: how well might it have done even with good reviews?
The Outsider
Member
It would have done better than Green Hornet.
I mean, I thought it was alright.
Choppasmith
Member
First thing I thought as well. No way Marvel lets them do an X-Men show without something in return.
Has astroturfing for this film gotten this desperate?
It would've had an actual big(ger) marketing push if the studio had faith in it.
It was sent to die because they knew they had a turd on their hands, but it serves the purpose of retaining the film rights so they still have something to hoarde in the petty war with Marvel.
If it was good, it would've done great regardless, but the marketing would've been everywhere.
Choppasmith
Member
It's funny, the Doom episodes of Assemble were some of the best. In the recent episodes of Agents of SMASH, the Hulks just hung out in Doom's Embassy building. Each episode of the Days of Future Smash arc started out with "Doom is... somewhere. Where is he? I dunno."
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Here's a superior render.And this guy
In other news, Moviepilot is predicting a $35 million opening for Fant4stic.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
I was joking before..do you actually work for FOX? Shit is just weird now..
For real, this is kinda sad.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Fox('s unnamed executive shout to BobbyRoberts) REALLY don't want this shit to open under The Green Hornet. They got dudes paying for YOUR ticket just so you can spread word of mouth.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I wonder if Fox pays better than Microsoft.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
Sure I saw plenty of marketing for this. I go the cinema 4-5 times a week, been seeing trailers for it for at least 2 months or so, its advertised on public transport here, and the tv.
I've been confident this was going to be a dud since I saw the audience reaction to the trailer in front of the Ultron premiere. A sold out crowd of the hardest core comic fans and it went over like a lead balloon.
EDIT: not a green hornet level dud, though. That's more than I hoped for.
EDIT: not a green hornet level dud, though. That's more than I hoped for.
The Outsider
Member
Desperate times, desperate measures.
Red Mage
Member
I don't know which would be worse, if he did or didn't.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
I've been debating this very thing..lol.
darkhunger
Member
Apparently Fox already has the X-Men animation rights...
http://www.newsarama.com/23958-eccc-2015-marvel-animation-presents.html
Now, now, let's be fair. Whoever cut the trailer for Fantastic Four was doing god's work because THIS film actually looks interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAgnQdiZFsQ
It's a shame that the actual movie doesn't come close to that. But the trailer editor? Give that man/woman a raise!
I don't think that's the trailer that played in front of Ultron. That one was in front of Ant Man, IIRC. The earlier trailer is straight up dullsville.
- Status