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Final Fantasy XIV Beta Discussion + Media

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Shouta

Member
Zalasta said:
Well, I guess you must knew the voter's personal expectations and experiences that caused them to vote the way they did. Not to mention none of us here have actually played GW2 to know whether it warranted the award. Valid criticisms is one thing, useless comparison is another.

It's a pretty wild assumption that player's tilt had more to do with it than the state of the games themselves. It's certainly a bigger assumption than the one I'm making because even if I don't know what GW2 is like at least I know what XIV beta 3 is like and it's definitely not going to win many folks over outside of graphics.

SE is one step from open beta and they still have us only testing a starter area with borked mechanics and a ton of things that need immediate changing or fixing. On top of that, folks in got into beta starting with phase 3 can't even post feedback on the beta forums so we can't further elaborate on problems and possible solutions. I mean fucking seriously, this game is one step from an open beta (which basically should be a release candidate) and a month from release and they have their closed beta testers doing limited content in a starting area and they can't post feedback!? What the hell are they thinking?
 
apparently they are thinking "release it and fix it later".. isn't that pretty much what they did with FF XI? Though they didn't release that in the Us until a year after it had been out in Japan..
 

falastini

Member
Londa said:
pretty much explains why the mouse controls will not be at launch.

I don't think that's the entire reason. You can still provide a smooth hardware mouse, even if the interface isn't completely streamlined for it yet.

Anyways, if 90% of your fanbase (their words not mine) said they wanted proper mouse controls, you should have made sure the PC interface was in place before you worried about the console controls; considering you still have 8 months to perfect that version and only 1 month for the PC release.
 

Shouta

Member
Robobandit said:
apparently they are thinking "release it and fix it later".. isn't that pretty much what they did with FF XI? Though they didn't release that in the Us until a year after it had been out in Japan..

It kind of is what they did with FFXI but that doesn't cut it this time around. They've done FFXI for 8 years now and they should've learned a lot of things from managing and developing that game.

falastini said:
I don't think that's the entire reason. You can still provide a smooth hardware mouse, even if the interface isn't completely streamlined for it yet.

Anyways, if 90% of your fanbase (their words not mine) said they wanted proper mouse controls, you should have made sure the PC interface was in place before you worried about the console controls; considering you still have 8 months to perfect that version and only 1 month for the PC release.

They should've figured it out before developing the game honestly. The PC market is stronger for MMOs and a lot of FFXI players have migrated to a PC over the years. It's the platform that'll continue to stay viable in the long run but hey, apparently the concept eluded them.
 

Londa

Banned
falastini said:
I don't think that's the entire reason. You can still provide a smooth hardware mouse, even if the interface isn't completely streamlined for it yet.

Anyways, if 90% of your fanbase (their words not mine) said they wanted proper mouse controls, you should have made sure the PC interface was in place before you worried about the console controls; considering you still have 8 months to perfect that version and only 1 month for the PC release.


Ok SE gave you a reason that you demanded to know. Then you turn around and say that isn't good enough. Do you develop games? How would you know what they should be able to do? They are working with the crystal tools that is to be used on both a PC and consoles. This is the first time the crystal tools will be used on PC.

Lots of people in here pretending to have the knowlege equivalent of a game designer.
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
Londa said:
Ok SE gave you a reason that you demanded to know. Then you turn around and say that isn't good enough. Do you develop games? How would you know what they should be able to do? They are working with the crystal tools that is to be used on both a PC and consoles. This is the first time the crystal tools will be used on PC.

Lots of people in here pretending to have the knowlege equivalent of a game designer.

No one gives a flying fuck. Their reason is not good enough. Proper mouse controls is expected. Period. No debate. End of discussion. No excuse. This is a product they are selling and it should fucking work properly. Laggy mouse controls is unacceptable on the PC.
 

Zalasta

Member
Shouta said:
It's a pretty wild assumption that player's tilt had more to do with it than the state of the games themselves. It's certainly a bigger assumption than the one I'm making because even if I don't know what GW2 is like at least I know what XIV beta 3 is like and it's definitely not going to win many folks over outside of graphics.

SE is one step from open beta and they still have us only testing a starter area with borked mechanics and a ton of things that need immediate changing or fixing. On top of that, folks in got into beta starting with phase 3 can't even post feedback on the beta forums so we can't further elaborate on problems and possible solutions. I mean fucking seriously, this game is one step from an open beta (which basically should be a release candidate) and a month from release and they have their closed beta testers doing limited content in a starting area and they can't post feedback!? What the hell are they thinking?

All I'm saying is we don't know the process and criteria in the selection and judging for this award. So people are trying to explain the result based on their own experience and bias. Everything you've said about XIV is quite valid, but it doesn't deny the fact that the statement "Folks at Gamescom must not have liked what they saw from XIV this year" is not based on facts. Couldn't they liked XIV but enjoyed GW2 more?

Did you know that Gamescom's award is given out by a 6-person jury and the developers have to actually submit their games to be considered?
 
Zalasta said:
Did you know that Gamescom's award is given out by a 6-person jury and the developers have to actually submit their games to be considered?

I heard from a reliable resource that Square actually wasn't able to submit the game to the contest to even be considered for the award.

Unfortunately they had to fill out an online form to submit it, and they weren't able to mouse over to the "Submit" button on time.
 

falastini

Member
Londa said:
Ok SE gave you a reason that you demanded to know. Then you turn around and say that isn't good enough. Do you develop games? How would you know what they should be able to do? They are working with the crystal tools that is to be used on both a PC and consoles. This is the first time the crystal tools will be used on PC.

Lots of people in here pretending to have the knowlege equivalent of a game designer.
No, they didn't say that was the reason. You're making the assumption that it is the reason.

Gamepad and mouse controls are different at the most fundamental of levels. With a gamepad, you have to go through a layered structure command input for control, a mouse needs to be able to get things done with just a click. We have to set the game up to be able to handle both.
The interface has nothing to do with smooth,responsive mouse functionality. I'm not asking why you have to click through 3 separate menus to navigate the game. I'm asking why the mouse lags when I just try moving it.

You don't have to be a developer, nor did I ever claim to be one, to know that proper mouse controls isn't that difficult to implement. But you seem to know a lot about SE's problems for someone who isn't a developer herself.




Mister Zimbu said:
Unfortunately they had to fill out an online form to submit it, and they weren't able to mouse over to the "Submit" button on time.

:lol :lol
 

notworksafe

Member
Shouta said:
They should've figured it out before developing the game honestly. The PC market is stronger for MMOs and a lot of FFXI players have migrated to a PC over the years. It's the platform that'll continue to stay viable in the long run but hey, apparently the concept eluded them.
The thing is, there's nothing to "figure out". Hardware mouse control just means tapping into the mouse driver on the PC and letting that do the work instead of emulating it in your software. They are actually putting more work into a worse mouse. Boggles the mind.
 
Londa said:
Lots of people in here pretending to have the knowlege equivalent of a game designer.


I always know better, we play their fucking games more than they do and at the end of the day, i pay their bills.

Brad Mcquaid, Gaute Godager and Marc Jacobs all learned that the hard way.
 

Londa

Banned
CcrooK said:
I think Londa's lost it. Either blind or just arrogant to the truth. :lol


More like not blinded by mindless negativity to the point of unreasonableness. :D

Kintaro said:
No one gives a flying fuck. Their reason is not good enough. Proper mouse controls is expected. Period. No debate. End of discussion. No excuse. This is a product they are selling and it should fucking work properly. Laggy mouse controls is unacceptable on the PC.

lol you mad. :lol

fizzelopeguss said:
I always know better, we play their fucking games more than they do and at the end of the day, i pay their bills.

Brad Mcquaid, Gaute Godager and Marc Jacobs all learned that the hard way.

We? Maybe you mean yourself. Because most people don't have time to play a game like its their full time job. That is the only way you can say you play more than them because its their job to work on this MMO.
 

Salaadin

Member
fizzelopeguss said:
it's not "mindless" you bloody vegetable.

Right. Pretty much every complaint in this thread by a beta tester holds some merit. I cant say Ive seen any overly ridiculous wants or needs either. People just want the game to work and right now in its current state, it doesnt.


I was in the "lets just wait and see" camp early on when the beta started in July but we are now what? 32 days from release and the game still has that incompleteness about it. Its stupid.
 

ithorien

Member
notworksafe said:
Instead blinded by fanboyism to the point of being unreasonable. Both sides are bad, I think.

I've had an account for a while, but don't post much because I simply don't have too much time to get involved as much as I'd like to. I'm an observer.

From an observer's point of view, I'm sorry to say but I think Londa you're being quite unreasonable.

I wanted to have faith. I want to like the game. But some things that are basic functions of the game, are failing miserably. This game isn't being developed by someone who has absolutely no previous experience in MMO games. Yes, SE is famous for botching things up left and right, but FFXI is at this point in time, a pretty polished product that just keeps getting better (imo).

Why would you not take 8 years of knowledge and experience, besides the 8 years of other MMOs and build something solid out of it?

I've put my blind fanboyism aside and realized how amateurish and absolutely ignorant they are displaying themselves to have the game in the state it's in, a month from launch.
 

Jinko

Member
_tetsuo_ said:
Hmmm is it lifted fully? Searching around I'm seeing conflicting reports.

Allowed to post pictures but not videos I think.

Check how cute my Taru (I mean Lalafell) is now.
jinkocloak.jpg
 
Londa said:
I'll just leave this here.

What's foul about it. people have posted valid concerns here and all you've done is dismiss it as petty "hating". It's like talking to an inanimate object that parrots the SE company line.
 

notworksafe

Member
Jinko said:
Allowed to post pictures but not videos I think.

Check how cute my Taru (I mean Lalafell) is now.
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3081/jinkocloak.jpg[/mg][/QUOTE]
Looks like he belongs in an all midget version of Assassin's Creed!
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
Londa said:
lol you mad. :lol

At your foolishness. Inability to implement basic mouse controls on day one is indefensible, yet here you are.

Also, backseat modding will get you banned faster than anyone insulting you. Edit your post before someone pulls the trigger on you. Not that anyone in this thread would mind though.

Random bit on gameplay: Anyone else notice you can get hit by mob AoE that someone else is fighting? That happen to anyone else or did I just imagine that? If so, the MPK days are back baby!
 
For me personally, I'm enjoying what I've played so far. I'm not saying there aren't any issues, for sure they exist, but I do not think that many of them are as tragic as some people in this thread are making them out to be.

First, the whole having to go into a menu to do anything. Part of me finds this annoying; part of me understands what they are doing. I'm a designer by trade; so of course I see how they could, by simply mimicking the standards that people already use (What you do mean the I key moves the camera and doesn't open my inventory!?), they could make a bunch of people happy and have a more streamlined experience. The only valid argument here that I can find and partially support is this. It's a Final Fantasy game and they want to stick to the Final Fantasy formula for UI, for good or ill. In every Final Fantasy game I've played, I've had to access a menu to do most of the stuff I've needed to do. So again, part of me is OK with this. The bit I don't understand is having to go into the menu to do some interactions, like interacting with the crystal. Why can't I just target it and use it and get the same effect? (Maybe you can, I haven't done a leve in a week as I've been extremely busy) I'm not saying the system they have is perfect, but I find it functional. There just needs to be more consistency.

For the record...why can't I just change the key mapping to function how I want? There isn't anything in your game that is going to break from a game play point of view by giving people this option. This, coupled with the mouse lag (and yes Londa, as a designer, their excuse is pretty crappy...the only thing I can think of is that perhaps it isn't a matter of having a hardware mouse and more the data tracking they have going on the background that is just effecting the overall experience. That I could buy.) are my two biggest issues right now.

Combat is fun, I like not having an auto-attack. I'm actually OK without an AH or even the ability to search. It may seem masochistic to some, but I like the idea of having to walk through and find what I need. It adds a personal level to a genre that, honestly, doesn't do a good job with that most of the time. If you don't like it, I totally get where you are coming from, but I also don't find it an egregious error. I don't like the guild leve reset timer, unless they add a boatload more. They keep saying they are going to, but this I will believe when I see. Not like the implementation of these seems like it would be difficult, so it is entirely possible that this is true.

Honestly, what it boils down to for me is that this game provides a sense of discovery that I love to have. Could there be more clarity in the mechanics? For sure, especially the gathering stuff. People are just going to ask or go to the internet to find out, so just tell people how this stuff works. Things like that could be made a bit easier to understand. However, there is something about gallivanting around the world in both this and FFXI that isn't there in other games. Major pluses for immediately introducing the story as well and making it easy to get into and continue...I had to pry my wife away from my computer last night because she decided to make a character and play for a bit, mostly because she was just doing that beginning set of quest stuff and enjoying it.

So yeah, it needs work, but the fact of the matter is that all MMOs need work and are never released in a state that people aren't complaining about. FFXIV is not going to win over any casual players, but I don't think that is a goal they have. In a way, parts of this game give me that Monster Hunter feeling...something that is not the easiest to get into, but once you learn it, can be incredibly rewarding.
 

Zomba13

Member
For me I'm loving it but there are a few problems, some that affect me, some I don't care about as much as it doesn't affect me.

Combat is good. Nice pace to it. It feels similar to XIs but different enough to be new and exciting. The ranks for classes and using skills from one on another are great. Kind of like FFVs system where abilities could be used on other jobs. The game looks amazing, seemless world is great too (so far anyway) The monsters look great . Leves are good fun solo or in a group and are my favourite way to get skill (mostly because the leve mobs give skill half reliably).

Stuff I don't like. They need to let us use hardware mouse or something. The inventory is laggy, It was fine in Phase 2. It takes ages to sell items to NPCs because of the inventory lag.
I suppose they should let people bind keys to what they want, like I opening the inventory (I use a pad so I don't mind this stuff much).
Leves should be 24 hour things at most imo. Make them like daily quests in other MMOs.
Let Conj and Thaum regen MP over time (maybe at a lower rate than HP). The 30 min cooldown for 50% of your MP is alright but the cool down needs lowering. Makes no sense to cut a mage off from his spells when a melee can fight on and on because their HP regens. If I'm out of MP I have to trek to a crystal or keep fighting using spirit dart. A Melee just waits a bit in passive for hp to restore and keeps on fighting. Also the WS for getting mp back gives like 1mp for every 25 or so damage dealt. It's pathetic.

The current market ward system is a joke and expecting us to use it in place of an AH (for however long it takes for the AH to be implemented) is laughable. It took me 40 minutes last night to buy a Conj wand. 40 minutes! No. Bad SE! No! If they expect us to do this we need a search feature of the wards split into conj weps, conj armour, glad weps etc. And if they do implement a search feature how is it any different from an AH?
 

Londa

Banned
Kintaro said:
At your foolishness. Inability to implement basic mouse controls on day one is indefensible, yet here you are.

Also, backseat modding will get you banned faster than anyone insulting you. Edit your post before someone pulls the trigger on you. Not that anyone in this thread would mind though.

Random bit on gameplay: Anyone else notice you can get hit by mob AoE that someone else is fighting? That happen to anyone else or did I just imagine that? If so, the MPK days are back baby!


How am I backseat modding?

I'll remove it but I don't see how that is backseat modding.
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
piratepwnsninja said:
FFXIV is not going to win over any casual players, but I don't think that is a goal they have.

People keep saying this, but the development team has stated otherwise. I could jive with the whole Monster Hunter feeling, but Monster Hunter rewarded its players always. I just duoed a behest from a battlewarden. Our reward? 200 gil. Fuck 200 gil in the ass, we need equipment or mats to make them! :lol

Londa said:
How am I backseat modding?

I'll remove it but I don't see how that is backseat modding.

Of course you don't. You don't see a lot of things.
 

LowParry

Member
I think a lot of us are on the fence on taking the gamble of going in Day 1 with this. I just wish we have a little more solid proof of fixes or whatever. I want to play, just not sure if I'm going in to start or not. I've been through plenty of MMO beta's that had a good clear view of what we were to expect. XIV I'm still not sure what we are getting.
 

Jinko

Member
Zomba13 said:
And if they do implement a search feature how is it any different from an AH?

Was thinking the same thing, seems to me that SE want to be different for the sake fo being different.

If they do manage to add a search function it will make the world of difference, but like you say they should have just stuck with an AH.

I guess some stuff needed to be left out to make the 22nd release date, AH was one of them.
 
CcrooK said:
I think a lot of us are on the fence on taking the gamble of going in Day 1 with this. I just wish we have a little more solid proof of fixes or whatever. I want to play, just not sure if I'm going in to start or not. I've been through plenty of MMO beta's that had a good clear view of what we were to expect. XIV I'm still not sure what we are getting.

Is the open beta gonna be feature complete?
 

Londa

Banned
Kintaro said:
People keep saying this, but the development team has stated otherwise. I could jive with the whole Monster Hunter feeling, but Monster Hunter rewarded its players always. I just duoed a behest from a battlewarden. Our reward? 200 gil. Fuck 200 gil in the ass, we need equipment or mats to make them! :lol



Of course you don't. You don't see a lot of things.

Instead of attacking me as a person you could explain why it is backseat modding. But then that would be too mature for you.
 

desa

Member
fizzelopeguss said:
Is the open beta gonna be feature complete?

From the interview posted a page back.

DK: You’ll also be able to start in any of the three starting capital cities. It’s not just about the three different stories; it is from this point that you’ll actually see the economy begin to work the way we imagined it, and we can’t wait for you to see it.

F: So in open beta, will you be able to go between cities?
DK: But of course.
 
Kintaro said:
People keep saying this, but the development team has stated otherwise. I could jive with the whole Monster Hunter feeling, but Monster Hunter rewarded its players always. I just duoed a behest from a battlewarden. Our reward? 200 gil. Fuck 200 gil in the ass, we need equipment or mats to make them! :lol


Well if it is a goal they do have, then I can agree they aren't doing a good job at that. As for the other part, that sucks, but I do remember running Rathian a bajillion times to make that set in Monster Hunter. lol
 

Khrno

Member
fizzelopeguss said:
Is the open beta gonna be feature complete?

Knowing SE I don't think so. It wouldn't be wise give everything out 3 weeks before release, so it'll be most likely a sample. UI and controls should be the priority to have working bug-free during for the OB.

The gameplay adjustments (leves, exp, gil, skills, timers, drops, etc) is a matter of userbase feedback in the long run anyway.
 

desa

Member
Kintaro said:
People keep saying this, but the development team has stated otherwise. I could jive with the whole Monster Hunter feeling, but Monster Hunter rewarded its players always. I just duoed a behest from a battlewarden. Our reward? 200 gil. Fuck 200 gil in the ass, we need equipment or mats to make them! :lol

Well, looks like they retained some things from FFXI :lol

90 percent of the regular quests gave shit rewards. Or none at all. At least the storylines were good.
 

Kandinsky

Member
Zomba13 said:
Combat is good. Nice pace to it. It feels similar to XIs but different enough to be new and exciting.
Combat is an unresponsive mess atm :/
Zomba13 said:
The inventory is laggy, It was fine in Phase 2.
Thats not true at all, inventory was the same on p2.
Zomba13 said:
Let Conj and Thaum regen MP over time (maybe at a lower rate than HP). The 30 min cooldown for 50% of your MP is alright but the cool down needs lowering. Makes no sense to cut a mage off from his spells when a melee can fight on and on because their HP regens. If I'm out of MP I have to trek to a crystal or keep fighting using spirit dart. A Melee just waits a bit in passive for hp to restore and keeps on fighting. Also the WS for getting mp back gives like 1mp for every 25 or so damage dealt. It's pathetic.
Deal with its, this is SE, if FFXI taught someting is that they just dont get it, especially when making a mage class :/

Londa said:
Instead of attacking me as a person you could explain why it is backseat modding. But then that would be too mature for you.
Oh stfu already:lol
 
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