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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| The Midas Touch
- Thread starter Ken
- Start date
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Glamour requires your character to be level 50, yes. Level 1 gear is fine to be glamoured over other pieces, so you'll be able to use it in the future (or running around town right now I guess).
It's just that you don't unlock the option to glamour until 50.
Had a slightly heated debate on the current usefulness of BRDs in Alex Savage with a FC member yesterday. To give a bit of a background, my group hasn't been able to raid at all until the beginning of this month because people were busy irl, which was fine since I wouldn't consider us being really hardcore raiders anyway. We managed to clear A1S and are currently slowly working on A2S.
So yesterday one of my FC members questioned our decision to have a BRD in our group since in his opinion it would be much better to run 2 casters for the high DPS checks coming in A3S. According to him 2 casters would do more dps than 1 caster with Foe's requiem + BRD (Is this even true?), TP or Mana Song should never be used anyway if the group is handling Mana and TP optimally and since BRDs don't have the mobility of 2.x anymore they would just make clearing content more difficult starting in A3. Since I haven't read up on A3S yet I was only able to draw on my own experiences from Coil on why having a BRD can be beneficial in many raid situations and that less DPS is okay for the utility it brings us. I know that the DPS checks in A3 and A4 is supposed to be quite steep but I kept insisting that having a BRD isn't a detriment. Am I wrong with this?
So yesterday one of my FC members questioned our decision to have a BRD in our group since in his opinion it would be much better to run 2 casters for the high DPS checks coming in A3S. According to him 2 casters would do more dps than 1 caster with Foe's requiem + BRD (Is this even true?), TP or Mana Song should never be used anyway if the group is handling Mana and TP optimally and since BRDs don't have the mobility of 2.x anymore they would just make clearing content more difficult starting in A3. Since I haven't read up on A3S yet I was only able to draw on my own experiences from Coil on why having a BRD can be beneficial in many raid situations and that less DPS is okay for the utility it brings us. I know that the DPS checks in A3 and A4 is supposed to be quite steep but I kept insisting that having a BRD isn't a detriment. Am I wrong with this?
Biggest factor will be player skill rather than job, really.
If two equally skilled players were compared and the only variable was job, I don't think the difference between a BRD and a second caster will make or break the DPS check.
Okay, I undertand. Thank you!
--
I know most of you are on Ultros, but any chance anyone here is playing on Atomos?
Can't find that FFXIV GAF spreedsheet.
I mean, you're probably looking at a difference of less than 100 DPS in exchange for songs. I'd probably bring the BRD for Paeon at least since you can't really "optimize" TP for the melee when the boss is up in the entirety of last phase.
I'm not even sure how to take his reasoning that the mobility loss from Wanderer's Minuet will make raids harder to clear. Just sounds like grasping, tbh.
Altered Juice
Member
Fanservice fantasy xiv
BRD or MCH is essentially required.
First, healers overheal during progression, it's natural as they learn their healing script (and tanks learn their cooldown script), so MP will be an issue. I think even without the overhealing, you are most likely going to need Ballad anyways but cannot confirm as we have not cleared A3S yet.
Second, A4S requires paeon in 4th phase as there's no pause to regain TP like there is in first 3 phases.
Yeah, as I said I haven't done A3S yet so I have no idea how TP will be as a DRG even with a potential Goad from our NIN but I also think that having Paeon available will make things easier.
I think he meant that since BRDs don't have the added advatange of mobility anymore, it makes sense to use a job with higher dps instead for the dps checks.
Tell him to go to FFLogs.com and try to find a group that has cleared A3S and/or A4S without a bard or machinist (spoiler: there won't be many if any). Proof is in the pudding.
EDIT - Actually I think there is statistics. There's 405 recorded bards with clears, 122 recorded machinists with clears vs 469 white mages and 58 astrologists. Which is exactly a 1:1 ratio (unless there's a group that cleared with WHM/AST)
Which means there has been 0 groups on FFLogs that have cleared A3S without a BRD or MST.
EDIT - Actually I think there is statistics. There's 405 recorded bards with clears, 122 recorded machinists with clears vs 469 white mages and 58 astrologists. Which is exactly a 1:1 ratio (unless there's a group that cleared with WHM/AST)
Which means there has been 0 groups on FFLogs that have cleared A3S without a BRD or MST.
Demoskinos
Member
Figured as much...was just hoping there was some more streamlined way to do it. I guess its FATES and The Vault then.
Fanservice fantasy xiv
A Relm Reborn
This is silly because the math doesn't even back him up. Bards do pretty well in A1S thanks to multi dot (on FFLogs you start seeing bards pop up at #10 in the DPS charts; the first Ninja appears in the 40s.), can outperform Ninjas and DRGs in A2S, hold the top spot in A3S, and come within a few DPS of Summoners in A4S. These are ridiculously top tier players, but the point is player skill is a much bigger issue. Bard is more than competitive damage wise in the actual fights themselves.
Plus both ranged classes are insanely bursty--sustained DPS on a dummy might be lower, but during Hand of Pain ranged classes should spike really, really hard. They help there, not hurt. Plus Foe Req for your caster/healer DPS.
Not bringing ranged because of DPS checks is more superstition than reason.
To be fair, that top BRD on A3S is a singular freak case and the next BRD/MCH is at #102.
So to put a summary on the job based on that person is a bit mis-representative.
EDIT - Actually the AST kept up The Balance on him exclusively, plus DRG debuff uptime was insane, BRD got goad' exclusively, plus they ran MCH so the BRD didn't need to sing any songs (except foe in the beginning and 1 quick burst of paean). They purposefully ran something to inflate one person's numbers.
So to put a summary on the job based on that person is a bit mis-representative.
EDIT - Actually the AST kept up The Balance on him exclusively, plus DRG debuff uptime was insane, BRD got goad' exclusively, plus they ran MCH so the BRD didn't need to sing any songs (except foe in the beginning and 1 quick burst of paean). They purposefully ran something to inflate one person's numbers.
It's actually funny because a lot of the better parses don't have bards singing whatsoever in A3S. Maybe a bit of Paeon to keep TP up transitioning into adds, but that's about it. From Fflogs you can see that BLM can routinely outparse a Bard/Machinist by around a hundred or less, but SMN and BRD/MCH are all basically at the same level. So basically, this guy (shock and surprise) has no idea what he's talking about. Foe Requiem is going to be a flat out net gain if the SMN is gonna parse (optimally) 1200 and the BRD is gonna parse 1200.
Basically ranged damage is way better than people expect it to be and the ideal that a lack of Bard/MCH mobility in raids is going to hurt in the long run is dumb as a rock because the cast times are extremely short, so if lack of mobility is a hindrance then I guess we shouldn't bring BLM or SMN to raids either. Sounds to me like some BRD stole this guy's girlfriend or something.
Basically ranged damage is way better than people expect it to be and the ideal that a lack of Bard/MCH mobility in raids is going to hurt in the long run is dumb as a rock because the cast times are extremely short, so if lack of mobility is a hindrance then I guess we shouldn't bring BLM or SMN to raids either. Sounds to me like some BRD stole this guy's girlfriend or something.
cultureculture
Member
This is most assuredly the real answer. We've all seen the Syrcus Tower set.
Yeah. So he definitely didn't wear that when using /seduce
Hey man. Some of us have the ability to preserve mobility without having to stutter step all over the place or resort to stealing DRG skills. #Ammo4Life
And it honestly just sounds to me like he read Reddit around 3.0 launch and never went back. The bad old days of Bis EX CLEAR GROUP NO BRD/MCH.
This is why FFLogs is kind of neat. BLM shows up at third if you compare DPS at the 75th percentile. It varies slightly between fights--they do a little worse comparatively in A1S, but better in A2S.
http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/7#boss=20
MNK is king but all of those MNK's have a DRG or NIN.
SMN isn't really that great anymore honestly, not due to the damage they output, but due to their lack of useful DPS utility. Things like virus are great and all but can be mitigated via other methods especially with battle scripting, but Battle Litany or Trick Attack are worth much more in these fights. And since the now standard party composition is 1 caster (we're still rocking 2 caster role and I'm hoping it gets re-balanced as I rather have people play the jobs they want then force them into roles for ideal composition), it's between SMN and BLM and I think most groups would pick BLM.
So I would say most useful DPS jobs are DRG or low latency NIN (better live in Japan, Canada, or NE USA).
EDIT - Note, double caster can definitely still work, but it is a handicap right now due to lack of DPS utility, especially if you also don't have a NIN, DRG, or AST.
Re-upped my subscription and was all set to re-download on PS3 only to discover that while ARR came in fine, the incompetent PSN isn't putting Heavensward on my download list. Supposedly there's some kind of store update that prevents us from downloading until 5 PM PT... if the help desk chat can be believed.
Just in case anyone else is having problems downloading today.
So I might go back to my long-neglected Japanese-server character, because I can still play ARR without problems.
Still, I want to get back to Ishgard!
Just in case anyone else is having problems downloading today.
So I might go back to my long-neglected Japanese-server character, because I can still play ARR without problems.
Still, I want to get back to Ishgard!
Here is how they fix SMN:
Change one of the dots to include "Decrease magical resistance" or something like that which adds a 10% buff to magical damage (SMN, SCH, BLM, WHM).
Then all of a sudden the double caster party dynamic is back into play.
They need to add that. They need to up the DPS PLD output. Then party balance will be back.
My group unfortunately has one of the worst complimentary balance right now. MNK, SMN, BLM, BRD, PLD, and WAR. Only way we could make that worse is replace BRD with MCH (due to lack of a foe equivalent) and WAR with DRK. I'm hoping it gets rebalanced in 3.2.
Change one of the dots to include "Decrease magical resistance" or something like that which adds a 10% buff to magical damage (SMN, SCH, BLM, WHM).
Then all of a sudden the double caster party dynamic is back into play.
They need to add that. They need to up the DPS PLD output. Then party balance will be back.
My group unfortunately has one of the worst complimentary balance right now. MNK, SMN, BLM, BRD, PLD, and WAR. Only way we could make that worse is replace BRD with MCH (due to lack of a foe equivalent) and WAR with DRK. I'm hoping it gets rebalanced in 3.2.
GO PLAY WITH YOUR ROBOTS NO ONE ASKED YOU.
I really want to switch to MCH for the next group of raids ;-;
Oh cool. Thanks for the info! I remember when HW came out and everyone was moaning about BLM gameplay changes and saying no one would ever pick BLM for raiding. But I had a feeling fellow black mages would represent and it seems like they have been.
DarknessTear
Banned
Did they not say that tank DPS will be made less relevant or did I read that wrong before?
They said they will change what effect STR has to re-introduce usefulness of VIT accessories.
Which means either:
1) They will make VIT tank's damage stat.
2) They will nerf tank damage where rather just have VIT then STR.
Even if they nerf tank damage, every bit of damage counts in this content so I don't think it'll have an impact on it. SCH's penta meld accuracy on boots and some accessories for an extra 50 DPS, tanks would still wear STR gear even if it only means an extra 50 DPS.
For them to change that dynamic, where tanking was actually about tanking, they would need to do 2 things - remove scripted fights where it was randomized based on phase changes so you needed to react with cooldowns instead of scripting them, and healing wasn't scripted either. tanks would need to focus on dealing with damage they are taking instead of outputting. Then they would need to change up the enmity scenario where damage you dealt caused significantly less enmity then now so you had to do your enmity rotations only when main tanking (which would be back to boring 1-2-3) unless they added stuff like curing on PLD causing enmity and made PLD a tank+healer instead of tank+DPS. Then tuned fights accordingly. I.e. not going to happen, too many changes needed.
Had to quote. Love this.
Man so long as they increase my shield swipe potency and make it so I can somehow block magic every now and then I'll be a little happier. Either give us some potency boosts across the board for PLD or lower the Shield Oath damage reduction. Gotta do something for that stance, it fucking sucks. Or shit at least let me stance dance without losing a combo fuck.
cultureculture
Member
What party DPS utility does BLM have? I've been mulling it over and I can't really think of a definitive, one-size-fits-all reason why you should choose BLM over SMN and vice versa. They've got their pros and cons on the different turns of AS so I'm not sure if there is a general answer. I play both.
I agree that double caster is not really ideal, and it would be nice if they introduced something minor that would incentivise it a little. It's kind of odd how only physical classes get party DPS utility (Trick Attack, Litany, Dragon Kick, Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge, Foe Requiem, turrets, etc), but I'm not sure where you'd fit it in without harming BRD/MCH too much. I suppose it is nice that BLM single target is more competitive with melee DPS now, though.
I'm really not a fan of the cross-class debuffs like this as it'll kind of force an optimal setup. That it's still really hard to argue against DRG/NIN/BLM/BRD (MCH if tanks are both pushing as hard as can be or if it's AST/SCH) is kind of a flaw in the design somewhat.
Not to say it wouldn't help out a lot for SMN but their biggest problems right now are fight design and some issues still with scaling (shockingly, Spell Speed is still bad, just less bad). I'd like to think it's because BLM can hit another cast breakpoint in gearing that created this gap but we'll see what it's like down the road.
It's not like you're excessively punished for double caster. SMN's big gimmick right now is they're a very reliable DPS. The range for SMN DPS isn't really that large on a fight like A3S. Most of the gaps will be the ones who get to go full AoE on Hand of Pain check and have the Gaols timed properly for getting the most out of Deathflare and buffed DoTs.
With everyone pushing i206, composition isn't going to break A3S short of somehow only having 3 stuns.
No, they said they're going to change "damage calculations." Which means everything from "they will do no damage at all ever" to "VIT is now a damage stat for tanks." It's possible they'll go back on it later but they seemed pretty happy with where WAR and DRK were at and it's just PLD that's lacking.
Unless they drastically change how tanking in this game works, tanks will always be about maximizing their damage output. It's their only active gameplay element.
Better damage seems like a pretty good reason. But, yeah, the only fight that seems pretty meh for SMN is fully cheesed A4S. No AoE perks, Quarantine sucks, Jagd Dolls suck, low MP environment.
This is why it's so great to have context in these DPS parses. People would do this all the time in WoW: cheese the fight mechanics comboed with their class abilities so certain players would get a way higher parse than "normal" (for healers too). i figured with abilities like Goad and enhanced/extended Balance card that sooner or later I'd see them show up here too.
cultureculture
Member
HylianScribe
Member
Bought everything. Still waiting on my Vol. 1 minions and Tonberry Lamp, though (guess they come out in December).
BLM doesn't have a DPS utility either, but it has a higher potential DPS limit on single target centric bosses.
Honestly if it wasn't for moves like sluice and all the "don't cramp up and spread out" moves bosses have and LB gain issues, I think a lot of groups would go 4 melee DPS.
EDIT - And I guess mage LB too.
I actually did think about this way back when first hitting adds, but I think the only way to group comp yourself into a problem in A3S is to run triple caster ? Melee all have stuns, MCH has stun/silence, BRD has silence, tanks have stun... The only way to not be able to guaranteed handle quad mucilage is to double down on summoner or BLM and not have an AST? And even then I guess the WHM could stack ACC for Holy. Or the SMN could get good with Ifrit.
Savage is surprisingly adaptable to most groups. For all the questionable decisions in the back half (A4S reviving the concept of pushing phases at the wrong time, how much have I not missed you) they really did learn a lot from Coil when it comes to encounter design.
Fanservice fantasy xiv
If you piss her off she'll just wipe your data from the server.
RPGCrazied
Member
I'm sorry I forgot your username in the game, but thank you so much for the Champion's Lance with the materia on it. Doing this for my relic. Just how many steps is there? I just defeated a world boss with 8 players, and now it has me going into 4 man dungeons.
Is it worth it or no?
Is it worth it or no?
Where? I'm on Atomos!
I think the only way to have 3 stuns total is to be DRK/WAR SCH/SCH NIN/BLM/BLM/BLM? And even then you could just triple BLM blow up the leftover. Which is kind of like a stun.
The worst part of A4S is the amount of time spent not fighting the boss
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Category:Zodiac_Weapon
Not worth it at this point. They're introducing a new one in 3.15 that doesn't require the old one. If you really really want to do the old one, wait for 3.1 since it'll have nerfs for the old one's quest chain.
cultureculture
Member
It was no trouble at all, don't worry about it.
The quest to get the actual relic isn't very long. After finishing Amdapor Keep, you need to:
- Kill certain common monsters on the world map
- Complete Hydra (8-man) with the unfinished version of the relic equipped
- Complete Ifrit HM, Garuda HM and Titan HM (all 8-man)
- Turn in 1x Radz-at-Han quenching oil (cheap tomestone item, 30x poetics)
You will then be awarded with an i80 relic weapon. You can buy more tomestone items to instantly upgrade it to i90 with a glow.
If you still want the weapon for glamour, that'd be a good place to stop.
Beyond that point is a massive grind that will take a very long time (being designed to keep people busy for months over the course of ARR's duration), which will be particularly long if you're just starting out now. There isn't really much reason to sink a huge amount of time to take the relic to its conclusion at i135 now.
Durandal. Sorry!
RPGCrazied
Member
Thanks, I wish you could use it and power it up at the same time. I guess I'll go until the Primal hard modes and stop and wait for the patch.