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[Sorian]

Wait, people thought they were going to nerf the new Relic Quest? Already? On a hot fix patch?

A small part of me was hoping that they would add items to vendors that would make sense (centurio seals, company seals, and wolf marks are a huge oversight for this grind IMO) but I don't think anyone seriously thought anything was going to happen.

 

[ebil]

They can't just use everything available already or they'll end up running out of ideas for the next part of the grind.

 

[Sorian]

They can't just use everything available already or they'll end up running out of ideas for the future grinds.

It's obvious this grind was meant as a way to get people involved in every facet of the game again. The three I mentioned were oversights (also, diadem tokens).

 

[studyguy]

None of the new content has me interested in the slightest. Spending my days playing MHO at the moment, and doing relic during downtimes when I feel like it.

 

[ebil]

It's obvious this grind was meant as a way to get people involved in every facet of the game again. The three I mentioned were oversights (also, diadem tokens).

Yeah I know what their intent was. It was a joke.

edit: I don't think Diadem is an oversight though. It's new content that is relevant to our overall character progression, unlike whatever they're having us grind. I know it's dead already but it'll come up later when it's no longer relevant.

 

[WolvenOne]

Well, Centurio Seals are used for upgrades, so there's still a bit of demand for those. I would rather have seen them add some allied seals to Heavensward hunts.

Also would've liked to have been able to buy items with Wolf Marks, but I've decried that oversight enough I think.

 

[Kintaro]

Think Yoshi will address the feedback/backlash to the Anima Weapons in the Live Letter? I kind of think he has to at this point.

 

[iammeiam]

Oh man, live letter predictions.

I think it's too soon for anything beyond a "We'll monitor completion rates and adjust accordingly." on the anima weapons. Community makes a lot of noise on everything, but the truly insane hardcore completed theirs, the mid-tier hardcore insane are plugging through. The real question is what happens a couple of weeks in when it's turned into a daily chore grind for everyone else.

I think/hope we'll get a section on raiding; updated clear #s maybe (A3S should have jumped some and I think i205 Thordan weapons will have had a huge impact on A4S), some description of how they're approaching next tier, maybe an announcement of how they'll be handling echo or nerfs for Savage. Probably/hopefully something on the crafted gear/meld/tank stat changes too? But none of these are very exciting.

So probably just some dungeon previews or something. Maybe a reveal of the next story primal (we have to get an actually new one in 3.2, right? Thordan let them get away with just recycling to great effect in 3.1, but we're due for new content that ties into MSQ somehow.)

 

[WolvenOne]

Oh man, live letter predictions.

I think it's too soon for anything beyond a "We'll monitor completion rates and adjust accordingly." on the anima weapons. Community makes a lot of noise on everything, but the truly insane hardcore completed theirs, the mid-tier hardcore insane are plugging through. The real question is what happens a couple of weeks in when it's turned into a daily chore grind for everyone else.

I think/hope we'll get a section on raiding; updated clear #s maybe (A3S should have jumped some and I think i205 Thordan weapons will have had a huge impact on A4S), some description of how they're approaching next tier, maybe an announcement of how they'll be handling echo or nerfs for Savage. Probably/hopefully something on the crafted gear/meld/tank stat changes too? But none of these are very exciting.

So probably just some dungeon previews or something. Maybe a reveal of the next story primal (we have to get an actually new one in 3.2, right? Thordan let them get away with just recycling to great effect in 3.1, but we're due for new content that ties into MSQ somehow.)

Personally, I would assume there be no echo, BUT, maybe a few small mechanical nerfs, and a bigger jump in gear ilvls then the customary 20 we saw in 2.X. I'm thinking a thirty ilvl jump personally. 220 for the 3.2 casual raid, (2nd Alexander NM,) 230 for the 3.3 casual raid (The 24 man raid,) and the max ilvl being 240.

Might seem like a huge jump, but if they're not doing echo it'd make a certain sense.

 

[scy]

They will show us that new /doze animation.

 

[Sorian]

They will show us that new /doze animation.

#gamechanger

 

[HylianScribe]

I bring you all horrors from the social media webs to gawk at, hopefully distracting you from the woe of FF XIV and relic grind:

https://twitter.com/egoraptor/status/679369792550076416

 

[Wilsongt]

Think Yoshi will address the feedback/backlash to the Anima Weapons in the Live Letter? I kind of think he has to at this point.

No. Not when more and more people are already completing it.

 

[Sorian]

No. Not when more and more people are already completing it.

I think it's interesting that you think so many people are completing it.

 

[HylianScribe]

No. Not when more and more people are already completing it.

Newsflash:

We all complained about every step of relic just as much. Not even joking. The only difference is this time, it seems to be taking longer for people to figure out you can do the grind various ways if you have the means. People just got too attached to the "800/616" Alex Normal runs tagline and freaked out. First OG Light step relics were finished in around the same window as the first Anima relics (24-48 hours). Then the humans, albeit very hardcore grinders, would finish roughly about a week after relic patch dropped. I am sure this week we will begin to see people finish their relics.

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER WAITING FOR SHITTY BOOK FATES? I WOULD GO TO BED WITH HEADPHONES ON WITH THE VOLUME MAXED OUT WHILE CAMPED AT THE FATE SPAWN. THAT WAS HOW BAD IT CAN GET.

 

[Sorian]

Newsflash:

We all complained about every step of relic just as much. Not even joking. The only difference is this time, it seems to be taking longer for people to figure out you can do the grind various ways if you have the means. People just got too attached to the "800/616" Alex Normal runs tagline and freaked out.

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER WAITING FOR SHITTY BOOK FATES? I WOULD GO TO BED WITH HEADPHONES ON WITH THE VOLUME MAXED OUT WHILE CAMPED AT THE FATE SPAWN. THAT WAS HOW BAD IT CAN GET.

Waited for a specific FATE for 4 hours, walked away from the computer for 20 minutes because of an emergency, came back to it ending.

 

[WolvenOne]

Yea, like I've been saying, people are protesting just a bit too much. Oh sure, I would've liked to see them do a few things better, but this isn't all that bad a grind all things considered.

 

[iammeiam]

There seem to be a number of people who were no-lifing earlier relic steps who took the 'fuck this shit' approach to devoting time and energy this step, though. There are a million ways to grind it out and every single one is tedious. Books were the previous most reviled step in relic progression, and they're starting this relic off with one that seems to be just as hated. Given where the game is content wise it was a really bad time for this step.

It's why I'm curious to see how this works out long-term; I'll toss law and poetics at it as I accrue them but that's about the extent of the effort I'm willing to put into it at this point. By the time the relic becomes super relevant to me I fully expect some kind of nerf to these steps.


Plus, seriously, they can't toss Precision Gordian items into Savage? Like, one item a week on lockout per floor would be an unfair advantage? pls.

 

[Kintaro]

Yea, like I've been saying, people are protesting just a bit too much. Oh sure, I would've liked to see them do a few things better, but this isn't all that bad a grind all things considered.

I think things came to a head because its been one thing on top of another. Not JUST the relic bullshit.

 

[Valor]

I think it's interesting that you think so many people are completing it.

Agreed.

Then the humans, albeit very hardcore grinders, would finish roughly about a week after relic patch dropped. I am sure this week we will begin to see people finish their relics.

You totally miss the point

Yea, like I've been saying, people are protesting just a bit too much. Oh sure, I would've liked to see them do a few things better, but this isn't all that bad a grind all things considered.

Wrong.

 

[Sorian]

There seem to be a number of people who were no-lifing earlier relic steps who took the 'fuck this shit' approach to devoting time and energy this step, though. There are a million ways to grind it out and every single one is tedious. Books were the previous most reviled step in relic progression, and they're starting this relic off with one that seems to be just as hated. Given where the game is content wise it was a really bad time for this step.

It's why I'm curious to see how this works out long-term; I'll toss law and poetics at it as I accrue them but that's about the extent of the effort I'm willing to put into it at this point. By the time the relic becomes super relevant to me I fully expect some kind of nerf to these steps.


Plus, seriously, they can't toss Precision Gordian items into Savage? Like, one item a week on lockout per floor would be an unfair advantage? pls.

Savage should have dropped 10 precision items per clear, a free relic item from any savage turns you can clear once a week would have been fair and just.

 

[Valor]

Savage should have dropped 10 precision items per clear, a free relic item from any savage turns you can clear once a week would have been fair and just.

Why would you want to encourage people to play new content!? Look at how much old content there is to play!!!!!!

 

[scy]

Newsflash:

We all complained about every step of relic just as much. Not even joking. The only difference is this time, it seems to be taking longer for people to figure out you can do the grind various ways if you have the means. People just got too attached to the "800/616" Alex Normal runs tagline and freaked out.

Not really, it seems more like the people defending it get stuck on that line the most. Nobody is expecting 616 Alex nor are they ignoring that there's a ton of ways to do it. Assuming people are that stupid is a bit much. End of the day is that it's a lot of shitty content filler that the game could have done without at this stage of things and how terribly timed the whole thing is. Put this step earlier in the patch cycle and it'd be less of a pain most likely.

In terms of sheer numbers, it's the worst grind they've had. There's a lot of ways to get it done but that doesn't really change how poorly implemented this step is.

First OG Light step relics were finished in around the same window as the first Anima relics (24-48 hours).

I don't know if the other steps first being finished in under half the time really counts as "same window." The first Anima took a lot longer than any other step's first completion. It's still in the first few days, yeah, but over twice as long isn't that insignificant of a detail.

 

[Sorian]

Why would you want to encourage people to play new content!? Look at how much old content there is to play!!!!!!

What new content?

 

[Valor]

What new content?

Well... comparatively...

 

[iammeiam]

Savage should have dropped 10 precision items per clear, a free relic item from any savage turns you can clear once a week would have been fair and just.

One suggestion I've seen and am kind of fond of is a 1:1 exchange for Gordian Pages for relic items. This I can see them not adding right away since people with backlogged pages would have an unfair advantage, but it's something they should patch in as we get closer to 3.2.

 

[Sorian]

One suggestion I've seen and am kind of fond of is a 1:1 exchange for Gordian Pages for relic items. This I can see them not adding right away since people with backlogged pages would have an unfair advantage, but it's something they should patch in as we get closer to 3.2.

Just like how it was unfair that I was capped on soldiery, poetics, law, and allied seals when this relic came out. What an advantage! I also had a dragonskin map on me already.

 

[iammeiam]

Just like how it was unfair that I was capped on soldiery, poetics, law, and allied seals when this relic came out. What an advantage! I also had a dragonskin map on me already.

I'm sitting on like 17 pages right now, 15 of which I have essentially no use for; I think being capped on everything else only gets you 6 or 7 items? Had my A1S loot luck not been total shit I think I'd be at around 25 pages. The lack of cap on pages is what makes them a little different to me.

 

[WolvenOne]

I might note that relic, DOES encourage you to play newer content as well. It's rather difficult to get Law from older content, and Poetics are only useful for two out of the four materials you need to buy. You could do Beastmen dailies, but that isn't an effective means of farming those mats up, even if you do have them all unlocked.

If you want to bypass much of A3S and A4S with Law, you're going to need to do at least some newer content. Newer dungeons, Alexander, Singularity reactor, etc. The only reason people don't see this is because there isn't as much new content as old content.

As for, "Savage," cmoon! They didn't even make people do Extreme Primals to effectively farm previous Relics. I mean PVP, sure, Heavensward area hunts, sure, I think it wouldn't even have been unreasonable to put bigger clear bonuses for 3.X Extreme primals, but Alex Savage!? XD

They're not going to make it so people without raid groups are going to be at a distinct disadvantage for this.

 

[Sorian]

I'm sitting on like 17 pages right now, 15 of which I have essentially no use for; I think being capped on everything else only gets you 6 or 7 items? Had my A1S loot luck not been total shit I think I'd be at around 25 pages. The lack of cap on pages is what makes them a little different to me.

Don't make it 1:1 then or back to real talk, savage should just be dropping precision things.

 

[Sorian]

As for, "Savage," cmoon! They didn't even make people do Extreme Primals to effectively farm previous Relics. I mean PVP, sure, Heavensward area hunts, sure, I think it wouldn't even have been unreasonable to put bigger clear bonuses for 3.X Extreme primals, but Alex Savage!? XD

They're not going to make it so people without raid groups are going to be at a distinct disadvantage for this.

You should work for SE, you're good at defending their bad decisions. You could be in PR. Plus you can moonlight for their terrible puns in everything.

 

[Frumix]

The part I mind about Anima is the 16 HQ top tier recipes.
Like, buzz off, I ain't spending 4 mil on skill speed.

Meanwhile, in Pharos HM, as a WHM I was outDPSing both the BLM and the MNK the entire first phase of Progenitrix, then on the Progenitor the BLM finally caught up. Full VIT esoterrible PLD needed not apply.
How long would that fight even take with 750 DPS less if they got some typical HEALERS HEAL dumbo?
Scary, yo.

 

[Sorian]

The part I mind about Anima is the 16 HQ top tier recipes.
Like, buzz off, I ain't spending 4 mil on skill speed.

Literally the least offensive part. Make some friends.

 

[WolvenOne]

The part I mind about Anima is the 16 HQ top tier recipes.
Like, buzz off, I ain't spending 4 mil on skill speed.

I know this doesn't help you, but as soon as I gear up my Culinarian a bit more I'm planning to make the King Cakes for anyone that brings me the proper mats. I'm sure you can find a few crafters willing to help you out if you look around and ask nicely.

 

[scy]

As for, "Savage," cmoon! They didn't even make people do Extreme Primals to effectively farm previous Relics. I mean PVP, sure, Heavensward area hunts, sure, I think it wouldn't even have been unreasonable to put bigger clear bonuses for 3.X Extreme primals, but Alex Savage!? XD

Even old Savage had Light rewards (maxed, regardless). There's no forcing any form of EX/Savage by making them options.

Also, EX Primals before were more effective than, say, Garuda, it just took more people that weren't bad to do it.

 

[Frumix]

Literally the least offensive part. Make some friends.

I have friends that can make those things, I just don't want to bother with it.

 

[iammeiam]

As for, "Savage," cmoon! They didn't even make people do Extreme Primals to effectively farm previous Relics. I mean PVP, sure, Heavensward area hunts, sure, I think it wouldn't even have been unreasonable to put bigger clear bonuses for 3.X Extreme primals, but Alex Savage!? XD

How come it's all "options are great!" and" nobody's making you do anything, guys!" until somebody drops Savage? I'm not talking about a huge advantage to running Savage, just something to make it relevant and give people running Savage some tie to the relic quest.

I am way more likely to occasionally run an Alex Normal for a Precision drop if I'm getting them from something I'm already doing. This doesn't replace or devalue the nine million casual ways to do it.

And let's not pretend having a static or set group of people to run with isn't a huge boost in the current grind. People doing the carry chains or spamming floors in premades or whatever are absolutely more efficient in preformed groups your average casual player won't have access to.

Don't make it 1:1 then or back to real talk, savage should just be dropping precision things.

Yeah, they're separate issues. I mostly want them to patch in a usage for pages since I think it could be a nice way to keep Savage semi-relevant post-unlock. Not just grinding out alt gear, but measurable relic progress. But, absolutely, Precision Gordian should drop in some capacity from Savage.

 

[aceface]

You know, books were actually my favorite step of previous relic. Am I a monster. I did them after they had upped the spawn rate of those fates once though.

Although last night as I was waiting for a fate to spawn for a beast tribe quest that took 20 minutes I did start to hate myself. So maybe I'm doing it right.

 

[Sorian]

Yeah, they're separate issues. I mostly want them to patch in a usage for pages since I think it could be a nice way to keep Savage semi-relevant post-unlock. Not just grinding out alt gear, but measurable relic progress. But, absolutely, Precision Gordian should drop in some capacity from Savage.

Waiting for page turn ins to come in 3.2 to let you trade them in for the then useless eso.

Or maybe they will add the gob tank as something to buy with pages

 

[Valor]

I might note that relic, DOES encourage you to play newer content as well. It's rather difficult to get Law from older content, and Poetics are only useful for two out of the four materials you need to buy. You could do Beastmen dailies, but that isn't an effective means of farming those mats up, even if you do have them all unlocked.

It does not encourage you to play new content. It allows you to.

If you want to bypass much of A3S and A4S with Law, you're going to need to do at least some newer content. Newer dungeons, Alexander, Singularity reactor, etc. The only reason people don't see this is because there isn't as much new content as old content.

A3 and A4 are two of the least painful turns.

As for, "Savage," cmoon! They didn't even make people do Extreme Primals to effectively farm previous Relics. I mean PVP, sure, Heavensward area hunts, sure, I think it wouldn't even have been unreasonable to put bigger clear bonuses for 3.X Extreme primals, but Alex Savage!? XD

They're not going to make it so people without raid groups are going to be at a distinct disadvantage for this.

And yet it's not even an avenue. It's a one way street to "Go Fuck Yourself"ville, where the XIV team seems to really enjoy sending us since 3.0.

Even you can't deny that old hunts, Coil, and the like are infinitely better routes to relic grind than anything 3.0

You should work for SE, you're good at defending their bad decisions. You could be in PR. Plus you can moonlight for their terrible puns in everything.

Maybe you and I should get EB'd. We think the same things.

Even old Savage had Light rewards (maxed, regardless). There's no forcing any form of EX/Savage by making them options.

Also, EX Primals before were more effective than, say, Garuda, it just took more people that weren't bad to do it.

See, scy gets it. The fact that it's not even a consideration is kind of dumb. They gave us multiple ways to get stuff before, and usually tried to incentivize a certain path. There's no incentives here. It's called jump on a hunt train through old areas to grind dem poetics. Esoterics? Who needs em? LAW? HELL YESSSSS.

 

[WolvenOne]

At most I could accept maybe 3-5 Precision drops per clear, unrelated to the weekly lockout. Too many more then that and I think you'd start hearing people bellyaching that the top raid groups have a huge advantage. I mean for all the complaints about the size of the grind, the relic quest is still mostly a casual friendly piece of content. I'd be cautious against anything that might work against that.

A3 and A4 are two of the least painful turns.

Oh now you're just being silly! People still wipe in A4N from time to time, and with a group with good gear that should be really hard to do! A3N isn't too bad, I'll grant you that, but A4N wrecks people all the time! There's a reason that the two turns I'm working hardest to bypass are A4N and A2N.

Also, "allows you to do newer content," is a really weird statement. It'll take you an ice age to get significant Law without doing new content, so doing new content is basically an essential if you want to get this done in a reasonable time frame.

 

[iammeiam]

^- The top raid groups already have an advantage. How many of the early relics are people without a support system already in place, doing them solo?

You know, books were actually my favorite step of previous relic. Am I a monster. I did them after they had upped the spawn rate of those fates once though.

I think you did them after a FATE rate bump and a price reduction in book cost? Or the tomes were so ridiculously prevalent it was effectively a pricecut.

Basically doing post-nerf atma and not understanding why pre-nerf people hated atma.

Or maybe they will add the gob tank as something to buy with pages

They actually probably should make the mount purchasable for 8 pages. Spare folks the horror of being the poor fool with bad RNG in every PF or DF A4S, since people will mostly be in it for the mount anyway (BECAUSE SPIDER TANK IS AWESOME.)

 

[Valor]

At most I could accept maybe 3-5 Precision drops per clear, unrelated to the weekly lockout. Too many more then that and I think you'd start hearing people bellyaching that the top raid groups have a huge advantage. I mean for all the complaints about the size of the grind, the relic quest is still mostly a casual friendly piece of content. I'd be cautious against anything that might work against that.

>Casual friendly
>Encourages hunt parties
>Encourages statics farming Alex Normal efficiently
>Requires 1 star crafts from every crafting class
>Estimates of several weeks to a month to complete grind step playing every day
>Casual friendly

I can't even with you sometimes.

The causal part of anima is getting the Awoken Eso weapon because it glows and it takes relatively little time to achieve something cool.

 

[scy]

At most I could accept maybe 3-5 Precision drops per clear, unrelated to the weekly lockout. Too many more then that and I think you'd start hearing people bellyaching that the top raid groups have a huge advantage. I mean for all the complaints about the size of the grind, the relic quest is still mostly a casual friendly piece of content. I'd be cautious against anything that might work against that.

At this point, you're just too far gone as a blind defense force. Like, I don't know how to defend this as "casual friendly" content unless you simply mean it as having some kind of long-term goal? I guess?

I dunno man.

 

[irfaanator]

>Casual friendly
>Encourages hunt parties
>Encourages statics farming Alex Normal efficiently
>Requires 1 star crafts from every crafting class
>Estimates of several weeks to a month to complete grind step playing every day
>Casual friendly

I can't even with you sometimes.

casual to him is playing 4 hours a day

 

[Kintaro]

I don't even know what "casual friendly" means in this game anymore. =x

 

[Ken]

rip elysium

 

[Sorian]

At most I could accept maybe 3-5 Precision drops per clear, unrelated to the weekly lockout. Too many more then that and I think you'd start hearing people bellyaching that the top raid groups have a huge advantage. I mean for all the complaints about the size of the grind, the relic quest is still mostly a casual friendly piece of content. I'd be cautious against anything that might work against that.



Oh now you're just being silly! People still wipe in A4N from time to time, and with a group with good gear that should be really hard to do! A3N isn't too bad, I'll grant you that, but A4N wrecks people all the time! There's a reason that the two turns I'm working hardest to bypass are A4N and A2N.

Also, "allows you to do newer content," is a really weird statement. It'll take you an ice age to get significant Law without doing new content, so doing new content is basically an essential if you want to get this done in a reasonable time frame.

The last thing I would want is to hear bellyaching over the new relic grind. That would really hurt the community.

 

[iammeiam]

rip elysium

Savage claims Team Updog, apparently

Elysium will continue a shell of its former self, tho, looks like?

RIP in Peace to those guys; forever greatful for Team USA making Asami a lala that one time.

 

[scy]

Going the BG route.