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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| The Midas Touch

H

HundredEyeMonk

Member
Squishy3 said:
There's a ton of content for a new player. Assuming you reach level 50, not only is there all that content on the way to 50, there's also 6 patches worth of content to go through before you reach Heavensward.

Don't know if you're on Ultros or not but there's a GAF FC on there. If you've been gone for awhile rerolling on Ultros might not be a terrible idea since you'd at least get to play with GAF people. In the long-term, level 25 doesn't take very long to reach now because they've doubled the amount of experience the main scenario quests give in the base game.
Click to expand...


I thought about rerolling. I thought about Gilgamesh just because I am a dirty dirty Redditor and see a lot of posts about that server. I'd rather play with GAF TBH.

suzu said:
You only reached Lv25ish, so there's enough content for you to come back to. Have at it.

Here's a list/guide of 1-50 progression and level locked content for you to refer to. And also the Heavensward list.
Click to expand...

Sweet thank you for the links!

Redx508 said:
just ignore the anime talk

if your a new player you have a LOT of content to do the next big patch is 3.2 coming Feb-Mar so you have time just don't rush to get 60

here's a few links that may help
Guide to Catching up to Patch 3.0

ARR Progression and Level Locked Content

Heavensward Progression and Level Locked Content
Click to expand...

Thank you as well! I will check these out.
 
E

Eldren

Member
I got BLM to 60 a while ago but I've had no motivation to actually play it in 60 dungeons or Void Ark or anything because I can't get comfortable with Enochian while constantly having to move around mechanics. I recently went back to levelling ACN which had been left floundering at 15 for over a year, I've now got a level 36 SMN and it's so much fun. It took some messing around with macros (to replace abilities in certain cross hotbar slots depending on the summon) but it just feels so comfortable to play. Luckily I have all this levelling and level 60 casting gear lying around too, how convenient.
 
T

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
chrono01 said:
You don't want to learn it, trust me. While manageable, Enochian just isn't a fun mechanic.

That being said, even giving out the standard/usual rotation won't really help, since a lot of it is just adjusting mid-battle to combat/transition changes. It's not the static rotation it was in 2.0, at least for raid content. Knowledge of the timings of the fight is a lot more important for us than it was in the past. Not only that, they made a class that already didn't enjoy moving even more immobile.

Don't get me wrong. Enochian can work [more Spell Speed helps] and seeing the damage on Fire IV crits is always enjoyable, but it can still be a headache. :/
Click to expand...
Well... I just blew my relic crystals on the BLM weapon. I'm not sure I'll ever feel comfortable playing SMN so going back to BLM seemed like a good choice. Except for most people telling me it's a huge pain in the ass to play now.

Someone tell me what job to play.
 
P

PhillipCostigan

Member
Tomat said:
Well... I just blew my relic crystals on the BLM weapon. I'm not sure I'll ever feel comfortable playing SMN so going back to BLM seemed like a good choice. Except for most people telling me it's a huge pain in the ass to play now.

Someone tell me what job to play.
Click to expand...

if you enjoyed playing BLM before, I'm sure you'll still enjoy it. Learn it and see for yourself. You might find the new mechanics interesting and a challenging way to play the class.

if not, Machinist seems fun. I'll always pimp MNK because I find it really fun.
 
C

chrono01

Member
Tomat said:
Well... I just blew my relic crystals on the BLM weapon. I'm not sure I'll ever feel comfortable playing SMN so going back to BLM seemed like a good choice. Except for most people telling me it's a huge pain in the ass to play now.

Someone tell me what job to play.
Click to expand...
Sorry, don't let me dissuade you.

Enochian BLM is still manageable, it just requires you to keep your eye on timing, more than you used to. I'm not sure if that's something you'd be interested in or not, but you could very well enjoy it! As I said, it does become slightly easier when you get more Spell Speed.
 
K

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Tomat said:
Well... I just blew my relic crystals on the BLM weapon. I'm not sure I'll ever feel comfortable playing SMN so going back to BLM seemed like a good choice. Except for most people telling me it's a huge pain in the ass to play now.

Someone tell me what job to play.
Click to expand...

Yoshi-P likes BLM so you probably made a good choice.
 
K

kvk1

Member
Hey all. Level 52 MNK. Slowly going through the MQ after taking a break from the game.

Looking forward to making it to Heavensward sometime in 2017 at my pace.
 
T

ThinFinn

Member
Tabris said:
I found an even better game for you guys.

IMG_0046.png
Click to expand...

Ha, jokes on you! I already play that game!
... Used to anyway.

iammeiam said:
Are you doing Nisi or sac?

In practice, nobody is actually doing the fight. Nobody does Nisi. We all cheat. There's a lot about the fight as we do it I strongly dislike (the transparency of the gear checks is pretty sad), but I can understand people finding some level of enjoyment in the basic burn that it ends up being. I don't think I've ever seen anybody do the fight with Nisi intact and then defend it.

I think that's the breakpoint for me; I know of all of two groups that actually did the A4S the Devs designed. It's a fight so bad nobody thinks it's actually worth doing.
Click to expand...

We do sac! Never really felt the need to attempt Nisi.

I reckon people just often choose the path which offers the least amount of resistance.

I mean, if one clears the fight with Nisi and still fails to find any form of satisfaction then it definitely isn't for him/her.

Maybe I'll give it some attempts after nerfs are introduced.
 
H

Haman Karn

Member
Doesn't the poor design just lead to it being too hard and unfun to be worthwhile? That is why people do the sac method. It is easier and you don't have to waste time with the unfun design.

How do you guys view it?
 
I

iammeiam

Member
Valor said:
Never quite understood this idea.

Mechanic sux
world first group does it
lucrezia pussies out
everyone follows lucrezia
logic is afk
Click to expand...

There's also that people pay attention to things said by people who did it. There's no real defense force for the mechanic from people who have done the mechanic. We now have Yoshida himself saying A4S was never cleared legit internally because it would have "taken too long", and while you can semi hand wave 3S's testing in portions because each phase is an island, 4 is so insanely interconnected specifically because of Nisi that not doing end-to-end verification is nuts and it wouldn't have hit live servers in this form if they had.

It's not just a matter of difficulty, it's a matter of if what the game is asking you to do is actually justifiable. The way Nisi is introduced and handled in the fight, it's really, really not.
 
W

WolvenOne

Member
In a severe time crunch, rushing the fight testing is probably okay, IF a development team is willing to go back and make adjustments if the players find a problem.

Unless I'm missing something, they never did that for A4S, and it sounds like the fight really could've used some adjustments.
 
V

Valor

Member
iammeiam said:
There's also that people pay attention to things said by people who did it. There's no real defense force for the mechanic from people who have done the mechanic. We now have Yoshida himself saying A4S was never cleared legit internally because it would have "taken too long", and while you can semi hand wave 3S's testing in portions because each phase is an island, 4 is so insanely interconnected specifically because of Nisi that not doing end-to-end verification is nuts and it wouldn't have hit live servers in this form if they had.

It's not just a matter of difficulty, it's a matter of if what the game is asking you to do is actually justifiable. The way Nisi is introduced and handled in the fight, it's really, really not.
Click to expand...
I mean the fight as it's designed is both terrible and boring, but I still don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the nisi design. The healing requirements seem rather high by carrying nisi through, but I don't think the mechanic on its own in a vacuum is inherently poor design. I just don't see the big deal with it, and I probably never will because sac strat is only strat.

I mean I know what Yoship said and it explains a lot of bullshit that exists in the last two fights, but why are we using recent evidence as rationale for how people have handled nisi since world third and on? Isn't it easier to say that it's a mechanic you can cheese instead of have to deal with and move on? It's okay to cheese raid mechanics. Destiny is a game built around cheesing every raid they conjure up. I think the last comment in that thread mirrors my viewpoint on this mechanic. It should have been like T2 versus T2 Enrage. Instead it's like everyone is doing T2 Enrage. Nisi is a bit of a rough mechanic, but where else are there damage spikes in the last phase?

Tank Buster Cleaves? Discoid? Carnage Zero? Zero is the only mechanic I see that could definitely screw you with Nisi active. Regardless, this conversation slash debate doesn't matter because it's a mechanic that 99% of the population will never deal with, for better or worse.
 
S

Sorian

Banned
This nisi conversation reminds me of all T2 enrage arguments except even the elitists are saying fuck that shit to nisi.
 
F

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Valor said:
Tank Buster Cleaves? Discoid? Carnage Zero? Zero is the only mechanic I see that could definitely screw you with Nisi active.
Click to expand...

Discoid coincides with Perpetual Ray spam every single time and then you can't really let whirbelwind through anymore because you won't use Healer LB3 to cheese a pentacle and suddenly MP requirements are through the roof and DPS requirements are even higher to compensate, it's a mess is what it is.
 
V

Valor

Member
Frumix said:
Discoid coincides with Perpetual Ray spam every single time and then you can't really let whirbelwind through anymore because you won't use Healer LB3 to cheese a pentacle and suddenly MP requirements are through the roof and DPS requirements are even higher to compensate, it's a mess is what it is.
Click to expand...

Well DPS requirements should actually be lower because you have Melee LB3 available to you and, in theory, no weakness to deal with so bards or mch casting bish-allad isn't nearly as detrimental. Mp requirements still sky high though, I would never disagree with that.
 
I

iammeiam

Member
Valor said:
I mean the fight as it's designed is both terrible and boring, but I still don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the nisi design.
Click to expand...

Alex normal trains players to think of Nisi as a thing you will heal through and then it drops off only to be recast later. Savage's implementation is explicitly designed as a giant Fuck You to whoever got their first, because it relies on you playing hot potato with something harmful for no apparent reason for a really long time before the reason pops up. The base way it was put in the fight was to fuck with people, which is gotcha game design at its worse. Even if it were a cakewalk after that, the way they introduced Nisi is bullshit. Those of us getting there late were spared that, but anyone foolish enough to want to work on a fight blind is going to be punished for it.

There's also that you have to do a lot of shit to even get to Nisi. Introducing it halfway through the fight and making it completely impossible to recover from mishandling is pretty big since it's impossible to practice Nisi anything until leg 4.

Also I cut out the part but I'm not using Yoshida's comments to defend doing sac strat, so much as to point out that people who've thought it was kind of a bullshit mechanic that felt improperly tested may have a point (I seriously for the longest time wondered if everyone was missing something that made it make more sense since I couldn't understand how that got past play testers as final design. Hell, for a while I was theorizing that they ran out of time and meant to fix A4S but then oops people beat 3 ahead of schedule.) Miunih's stance is far more relevant given that he's done it and doesn't really see the point.

Nisi is a bit of a rough mechanic, but where else are there damage spikes in the last phase?
Click to expand...

Straf phase? Double Czero and three Reducibles, and if you're doing Nisi you're killing Straf before Wirble which stacks all that damage even closer together. Plus you're probably dumping Nisi on the OT who will be eating Straf cleaves which are kind of a big deal on top of everything else without Nisi. It also changes how much damage and the vuln length from Fracture since the carriers can't stack. It even impacts how you'd have to handle the Fracture stacking! Hell, even getting to final phase means timing out your Nisi ticks with that last Mortal Rev. And if at any point you messed up and a Nisi carrier died, you weren't able to push on to enrage. You were just going to wipe later to another thing, because that's how they designed it. I mean, the Chocobo group had ACT tell them when to swap. Updog worked out a spreadsheet of all damage coming in to figure out tick timing. Nisi being a huge deal is pretty much a given.

Regardless, this conversation slash debate doesn't matter because it's a mechanic that 99% of the population will never deal with, for better or worse.
Click to expand...

But it does matter when it comes to talking fight design and what they should and should not be putting in fights and whether A4S is a good fight. Nisi isn't bad just because it's hard, Nisi is bad because there's nothing rewarding in doing it. Unless you're super masochistic and/or into e-cred.
 
F

Frumix

Suffering From Success
I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that A4S is a progression fight rather than a challenge fight. A farmable raid shouldn't require a spreadsheet to beat, but it'd be fine if it was like a hard fight for a title that you do once. T7 Savage was designed around timing everything in the fight.
 
K

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
dramatis said:
Who gave you the avatar? They don't know how to make it hurt

Should have gotten you "Lightning wearing Louis Vuitton and action posing"
Click to expand...

Well, I made the bet just as a general thing and not with anyone specific. So... I got to make the avatar too!
 
P

PhillipCostigan

Member
iammeiam said:
Alex normal trains players to think of Nisi as a thing you will heal through and then it drops off only to be recast later. Savage's implementation is explicitly designed as a giant Fuck You to whoever got their first, because it relies on you playing hot potato with something harmful for no apparent reason for a really long time before the reason pops up. The base way it was put in the fight was to fuck with people, which is gotcha game design at its worse. Even if it were a cakewalk after that, the way they introduced Nisi is bullshit. Those of us getting there late were spared that, but anyone foolish enough to want to work on a fight blind is going to be punished for it.

There's also that you have to do a lot of shit to even get to Nisi. Introducing it halfway through the fight and making it completely impossible to recover from mishandling is pretty big since it's impossible to practice Nisi anything until leg 4.

Also I cut out the part but I'm not using Yoshida's comments to defend doing sac strat, so much as to point out that people who've thought it was kind of a bullshit mechanic that felt improperly tested may have a point (I seriously for the longest time wondered if everyone was missing something that made it make more sense since I couldn't understand how that got past play testers as final design. Hell, for a while I was theorizing that they ran out of time and meant to fix A4S but then oops people beat 3 ahead of schedule.) Miunih's stance is far more relevant given that he's done it and doesn't really see the point.



Straf phase? Double Czero and three Reducibles, and if you're doing Nisi you're killing Straf before Wirble which stacks all that damage even closer together. Plus you're probably dumping Nisi on the OT who will be eating Straf cleaves which are kind of a big deal on top of everything else without Nisi. It also changes how much damage and the vuln length from Fracture since the carriers can't stack. It even impacts how you'd have to handle the Fracture stacking! Hell, even getting to final phase means timing out your Nisi ticks with that last Mortal Rev. And if at any point you messed up and a Nisi carrier died, you weren't able to push on to enrage. You were just going to wipe later to another thing, because that's how they designed it. I mean, the Chocobo group had ACT tell them when to swap. Updog worked out a spreadsheet of all damage coming in to figure out tick timing. Nisi being a huge deal is pretty much a given.



But it does matter when it comes to talking fight design and what they should and should not be putting in fights and whether A4S is a good fight. Nisi isn't bad just because it's hard, Nisi is bad because there's nothing rewarding in doing it. Unless you're super masochistic and/or into e-cred.
Click to expand...

all of this I agree with and I don't even have to bother with that shit. A4S is a healer intensive fight already, throwing a garbage mechanic like Nisi on top of that is shit. Reeks of poor testing and implementation.

My group's gonna try it for fun (read: pain) just to say we did it but honestly fuck that shitty mechanic. If we do it once, we'll do it once and never again. God help the raiding community if they ever decide to patch sac strat.
 
T

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
chrono01 said:
Sorry, don't let me dissuade you.

Enochian BLM is still manageable, it just requires you to keep your eye on timing, more than you used to. I'm not sure if that's something you'd be interested in or not, but you could very well enjoy it! As I said, it does become slightly easier when you get more Spell Speed.
Click to expand...
It's not just you, I've heard it from a lot of BLMs I know. We'll see.

Machinist confuses the hell out of me at level 41. Need to spend more time with that.

Monk does sound fun.
Kagari said:
Yoshi-P likes BLM so you probably made a good choice.
Click to expand...
If he really loved BLMs he'd give them old manawall back!
 
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