It is your fault that all the Lalafells are now warmongers. The great war of Xtech, Riley, and Naji of the 1700s, plus Gryvan continuously getting confused with which one is Naji and which one is Riley. We will soon look forward to Gryvan getting attacked by Kawazi and his army of furniture-makers.
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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| The Midas Touch
- Thread starter Ken
- Start date
It is your fault that all the Lalafells are now warmongers. The great war of Xtech, Riley, and Naji of the 1700s, plus Gryvan continuously getting confused with which one is Naji and which one is Riley. We will soon look forward to Gryvan getting attacked by Kawazi and his army of furniture-makers.
Enjoy Odin ravi, try not to harass too many cat boys.
Things did slow a bit right before a new patch, especially near the end of 2.x, but I think the promise of the expansion was a big reason people stayed on. That's part the problem right now, that we are still stuck in the same formula as 2,x. That was fine back then, it was new and shiny, but two years later and we are still getting same old routine yet with less content somehow.
Which is the other part of the problem. We are just getting less content in larger time frames. 2.0 to 2.1 was about 4 months (and 2.0 had way more content than 3.0, obviously). 3.0 to 3.1 was about 5, and 3.1 cannot compare to all the 2.1 content. This was after they said that 3.0 patches were planned with 3 month intervals in mind, as well as claiming 3.x content patches were supposed to be bigger than 2.x. They've failed completely on that front, and you could argue even the new stuff they did add has fallen flat on it's face. I mean, can anyone say Diadem and Verminion were big successes? Then there's the joke of an anima questline, that not only got delayed, but came in as just a rehash of the original relic line.
People just tired of rehash and lack of new stuff to do. Korra (I think?) argued a little while ago that the development team hit their peak already and they've run out of ideas, and that is definitely what it is looking like.
I don't remember 2.1 being this dead at all. 2.1 was one of their biggest content patches the game has had, and the stuff lasted awhile. BCoB was also pretty popular still even then, more statics and the PF scene was really alive. Wineport was always pretty busy. 2.2 SCOB seemed to kill a lot of groups with it's difficulty/issues but new content was still coming in other areas, and you still saw more raiders in general. Then FCOB really revived things in that department from what I remember.
Things did slow a bit right before a new patch, especially near the end of 2.x, but I think the promise of the expansion was a big reason people stayed on. That's part the problem right now, that we are still stuck in the same formula as 2,x. That was fine back then, it was new and shiny, but two years later and we are still getting same old routine yet with less content somehow.
Which is the other part of the problem. We are just getting less content in larger time frames. 2.0 to 2.1 was about 4 months (and 2.0 had way more content than 3.0, obviously). 3.0 to 3.1 was about 5, and 3.1 cannot compare to all the 2.1 content. This was after they said that 3.0 patches were planned with 3 month intervals in mind, as well as claiming 3.x content patches were supposed to be bigger than 2.x. They've failed completely on that front, and you could argue even the new stuff they did add has fallen flat on it's face. I mean, can anyone say Diadem and Verminion were big successes? Then there's the joke of an anima questline, that not only got delayed, but came in as just a rehash of the original relic line.
People just tired of rehash and lack of new stuff to do. Korra (I think?) argued a little while ago that the development team hit their peak already and they've run out of ideas, and that is definitely what it is looking like.
I guess I've never been in a situation like that before, not on AST or SCH. I mean, we aren't clearing as promptly as we used to but still.
I don't disagree per se, but when someone says a class is inherently worse but either can't put their finger on why or stops paying attention at "this class is worse", bad things happen.
I appreciate the serious discussion about it regarding the comparative GCD limitations vs the off-GCD skills of the other healers (by far the most objective and compelling argument I have ever heard on the matter), but I am also unsure of how much that actually matters in a meta where one of the healers is flat out expected to put out as much DPS as possible for worldfirst clears while the other is expected to be able to hold their own as much as possible to provide those windows of opportunity.
Yet for some reason (and this is just an example), while the comparative lack of Off-GCD abilities would definitely mean a WHM would be better off in that scenario, what about the scenario where the very tangible, passive extra DPS from AST secures a kill that wouldn't have happened otherwise, because that extra DPS just wasn't there?. That would theoretically mean in a situation where a SCH's whiffs would have meant a kill (and your SCH is absolutely going to whiff, cause that is an inevitability of healer acc right now), the AST buffs would secure said kill, yea? Is this situation less rare than AST's less-healing GCDs causing a wipe?
The same question could be said of SCH's current ACC causing some serious fluctuation in DPS output in high end raids when Miasma/Aero is going to inevitably miss: why is that less of a big deal than AST's card stuff? What about when the SCH doesn't whiff but the extra AST DPS is still there? That's more DPS than any other comp! In a meta where DPS is so important to clears. It's just really hard for me to understand, it almost seems hypocritical.
Again, I don't know, and I'm not trying to blame anyone who's come to a conclusion already, but I really like to understand these things: if they are more based around bias towards a certain class (which is fine, they are clearing and I am not) or if it's based around actual data I don't have. I know world firsts tend to hide stuff til after they safety clear so that their competitors won't mimic their ideas with better execution, but it's been a long time since then and I still haven't really seen anything. ]
And holy crap this post went on way longer than I thought it would.
ROBOKITTYZILLA
Member
It will be more of the same. Search your feelings. You will know it to be true.
I think 2.0 was more enduring because the game was still fresh and a massive improvement from the disaster that was 1.0. The game was genuinely good and had a solid foundation. Nostalgia and the Final Fantasy brand helped too. With 3.0, we have been getting more of the same status quo updates that we saw with the 2.0 patch series. People are burned out and it's just not fun. In today's environment where so many other things are competing for your time, they will really need to step it up to maintain interest.
Unfortunately, I have very little confidence that they will provide anything meaningful and engaging in the 3.0 patch series. Looking back at previous update features from the 2.0 patch series, their execution has been lacking. A lot of interesting features with potential were wasted because of poor execution. Housing, gardening, hunts, triple triad, gold saucer, PVP, and airships all come to mind. None of these had any real lasting impact for me due to how poorly implemented (read: half-assed) they were.
I don't think we will see any major changes or additions until the next expansion as most of these patches have been planned or pre-planned and it seems like we are getting the 2.0 series and style of content all over again.
I still like a lot of things about the game but I'm just not happy with the way things are going right now. Content is thin, the grind is insulting, horizontal progression and class customization is still mostly non-existent, and there has been way too much "If only..."
We will miss you Ravi!
I'm kind of curious how big the DPS fluctuation due to ACC actually is. Without any extra ACC gear, aren't SCH still in the 90-95% hit range? That seems far more reliable than AST's card stuff.
Honestly, I think of huge chunk of the grumbling lately is just general burnout. In 2.0, which was even more barren at the end-game, a lot of players were willing to do things like leveling other classes and such when they were done with the content at end-game, or done with the content they wanted to do in any case.
This time, many long term players just aren't really willing to do that, because they're burnt out on leveling, gearing alt classes, etc etc etc. 2 to 2.5 years is a long time to be playing the same game, so of course some people are going to tire of doing the same thing after awhile.
I mean, I'm not, but even I'd like a little more time to try other games. This is in part why I wanted to be done with first Alexander by now. I wanted a month or two to focus on other titles before 2nd Alexander. XD
This time, many long term players just aren't really willing to do that, because they're burnt out on leveling, gearing alt classes, etc etc etc. 2 to 2.5 years is a long time to be playing the same game, so of course some people are going to tire of doing the same thing after awhile.
I mean, I'm not, but even I'd like a little more time to try other games. This is in part why I wanted to be done with first Alexander by now. I wanted a month or two to focus on other titles before 2nd Alexander. XD
it was dead though? sure there was more positivity than there is now, but there were plenty plenty of times where the FC population was only 40-50 people. It wasn't until 2.2 that the average population stayed around 80
So it wasn't gardening...
But honestly, what else can they do? Horzintal progression? _______? I have no idea what they could do. And people did leave near the end of 2.X, but there was the positiviity that it wasn't permanent, and they were coming back for 3.0.
I completely agree, they really fucked up here. It is one of the prime sources of the hopelessness and negativity that surrounds the endgame. Makes me think that something happened on the back end, like a severely slashed budget, personnel moved to FFXV, or other projects, so only doing 4-5 month patches with only two dungeons is all they can manage with the resources that SE has allocated them.
They may have, but in my experience this is really how videogames are.
and movies and books and music for that matter
Now this is absolutely true. Man, I thought I was going to be Chocobo racing all the time like I did FFVII, or in XIII-2. Or I thought that I would be playing Verminion all the time, and going on Airship ventures. But as I think about it, I don't think the potential was ever there, because none of these things, save for Airship ventures, were designed to be funneled into raiding. And the Diadem got boring really after the first time you went and it just turned into beating the shit out of Barney the Dinosaur for an hour and a half; which that in of it self is a stupid idea. Most of the time I don't have an hour and a half set aside in one chunk. And the Chocobo racing and Verminion was DOA because they took spots in the DF and you had to be in the gold sauce basement to just play them. I couldn't go gathering or do some serious crafting near my retainer bell, or I couldn't race or play Verminion while waiting for the DF roulette to pop.
People like playing with people they know.
If you have the time, I suggest watching the video Korra linked because they touch on a lot of these things and while I can parrot and relay things I've thought about from a scrub healer perspective, I think you'd get a lot out of hearing it from the horses mouth. They touch on a lot of specific stuff like SCH fairy providing the WHM a healing helper even when the SCH is full DPS mode, etc.
Mostly because a SCH's DPS should average out over the course of the fight pretty reliably. Certain DoTs won't miss. A rough percentage of their attacks and missable dots will miss, but you don't plan your raid against any given attack hitting (barring things like wacky T7 miasma strats, but that was less progression and more Shadowbind sucks.) any more than you plan around one of your DPS getting a specific number of crits. You plan the averages and maybe sometimes RNG gives you a little extra push, but the plan is to kill the thing knowing what you should be able to do. AST DPS boosts are extremely situational and you can't ever really rely on a given % boost over the course of a fight. You can say "if we have the SCH DPS in these sections they should be able to get roughly X DPS out of it." You can't plan around AST draws beyond, like, Balance on pull. Six Balances in a row is a markedly different DPS impact than three Spires and three Ewers in A1s. They're a nice bonus, but they're not part of your baseline because you have absolutely no control over them.
I've been in situations where we enraged by less than a missed healer attack or two, but the solution was never to go back again and hope that one healer attack doesn't miss. It was generally to figure out how we either fix DPS from the DPS, or find new windows for healer DPS entirely. If Miasma misses, the SCH can redo it the next GCD. And then the GCD after. Unless they're having an unbelievably bad run of luck, it'll be up by then. They lose damage, but if an AST gets a currently-useless card, they can Shuffle it. If they get it again... That's it. They can t do anything else, that card is a write off. They can try again in 30 seconds and hope their luck is better, because Shuffle will be sitting on CD.
I mean, at least in the group's I've been in, we talk healer DPS in terms of general overall goals or roughly how much of the raid DPS requirement we can pull from there, and we/the healers can pick exactly when the DPS occurs. It's never at a level where a miss or two will wipe us in the plan. You can't plan around AST cards because unless Draws are being thrown away to sit on the perfect card and Royal Road, you have no idea what you're going to get. Only getting one card every thirty seconds plus one shuffle every couple Draws means it doesn't average out the same way over the course of a fight.
Plus SCH has Selene and Selene is a predictable and reliable raid-wide DPS boost too, no RNG required.
Because the bonus for AST part of that argument is only relevant in turning a low% enrage into a clear while their negative is getting that far to begin with. That's where the issue comes in between comparing the two, AST has a lot more issues in getting through the fight when under geared. Their DPS bonuses let them put more attention to healing but then we come back to the point that healing in this game in general is about matching periods of burst with a lot of downtime. For all the gripes of healing struggle and healer burden in A4S, there's like 10-15 seconds of time between big damage fairly consistently? It's not constant out that forces a struggle to keep up with over long durations, just what they have to do to keep up with as it happens.
Also, the whiffs are largely inconsequential: Two of their three DoTs don't miss. Both WHM and SCH have the capability of spending less GCDs healing and more time in Cleric's Stance DPSing. AST as a back-up healer does not have the fairy freely adding essentially regen ticks to targets. This is the GCD crunch issue most people refer to for AST vs WHM/SCH, they're a half-step to full-step behind in this regard.
Ultimately, it's because DPS to clear fights is less of an issue than people make it out to be. Sort of. This variance may make or break individual runs but the overall DPS-focused raid tier is about the grand sweeping changes like tanks in DPS stances and expected healer DPS above-and-beyond normal (for reference, I want to say our first A4S technically was missing something like ~300 Healer DPS that tank/DPS gear carry let us get by). It's not raw numbers per se but more how much they get away with adding to it consistently.
This isn't to say DPS goals in the fight are easy to reach though, just that the "DPS focused" isn't about milking the absolute 100% constantly. It's about shifting focus towards adding more and more damage from everywhere and planning things out. A4S for world firsts and even to now have held cooldowns to the point of entire lost uses simply because of how the fight works out.
Dangansona
Member
Lawd have mercy this stuff goes right over my head.
Relic done
Congrats. I made it to 55/80 items last night myself. Slowly getting there!
Haman Karn
Member
Have fun on Odin. We will miss you and your candle-drinking, chicken tikka masala-footsoaking self ;0;
SmarterUnconscious
Member
Take care Ravi. ;_;
Almost done with my relic as well. I think I've got like, twelve tokens left, or something like that. Honestly rather ready for this to be done. Had fun with the grind up until about sixty tokens. Wasn't really mind numbing once I hit that point, but I keep finding myself thinking about PVP, or doing some crafting, or how I'd like to get some more raiding done, stuff like that.
Guess that's just the point where I'm ready to do something other that roulettes, hunts, etc.
Guess that's just the point where I'm ready to do something other that roulettes, hunts, etc.
Thordan weapon carry is a whole other thing. We're incapable of killing that thing without at least two unplanned deaths per run and that wouldn't have been an option without Thordan. Think of how many extra deaths we could have gotten away with with relics!
Also 'missing' 300 Healer DPS implies we ever intended to have it. Thordan basically meant we got to clear without ever having to figure out how to optimize the final phase beyond like... Pop cooldowns at transition and after dolls. Maybe.
Realistically I don't think anybody in the thread pushes content early enough that the AST vs WHM vs SCH issue is make-or-break, we're firmly in the raiding audience where it will just be easier with WHM/SCH. And I think people are largely so sick of the raid tier that they'll take whatever advantage they can get.
I have like 9 tokens total right now but like I said I'm not obsessing over it. I'm doing a few Alex runs of each floor a night, what beast tribes I can get the new tokens for them from and then spending whatever poetics/law/seals I get on tokens. Have the most bones and ores right now. And making gil to buy the crafting mats I can't gather.
I told someone who hadn't even done the first step to start getting those poetics and beast tribe tokens now and they're like "i can't be bothered to spend the time to get them right now" and facepalmed
I told someone who hadn't even done the first step to start getting those poetics and beast tribe tokens now and they're like "i can't be bothered to spend the time to get them right now" and facepalmed
that moment of realization setting in that after 3 days you only have done 28 MSQ and have a bazillion more to go before you even get to the expansion .
That's not really a bad thing. Don't feel like you have to rush through the existing content to get to the expansion - a trap many have fallen into because of community pressure or whatever.
gotta improve the 17 death run. 20 death dream hype
In my editing and paring down my post, I deleted the context part of it because dumb. We're 'missing' it compared to first batch of clears. Was bringing it up to kind of note that the level of "max everything" right now is pretty low. That thinking of the healers and DPSing benefits and consistency on content today is different than 3+ months ago. The difference between finding ways to conceivably achieve X DPS vs finding X DPS, I suppose.
I have a hard time streaming even YT on my phone at work, but my interest is more about WHM vs AST than SCH vs AST, because as a former SCH I know better than to think WHM/AST is in the same ballpark.
AST doesn't have full control over their DPS after the battle starts, but they do have *some* DPS control, and a lot of control over getting rid of something useless. Not only do they also have 2 dots themselves which don't miss (vs WHM's 0) but they can save their card combo of choice before battle starts, and bring some pretty potent exclusive mitigation which I thought would matter more (Disable and Bole, Bole isn't reliable unless you save it but it's rare that damage isn't going out). That's inconsequential compared to the whole fight most of the time, but I am more considering the idea that in a SCH/AST group, if an AST does indeed need more healing help during the fight than a WHM in the same position, the extra overall DPS given would counterbalance that.
Oh I understand. My main point in my rambling was that I was wondering if they gave credit to the fact that those situations you described would have been clears with an AST cause of that extra DPS *if* the AST/SCH combo would have kept up, and how common they were compared to an AST/SCH combo not being able to keep up with healing where WHM/SCH would have-esque scenario. I don't know how much an average AST DPS contribution is (not just personal, but personal + Passive averages), and I don't know how much DPS a SCH would lose by having to provide more healing.
It doesn't help that we haven't had a "real" full tier yet with things as they stand. I wish SE would hurry up.
Also, off topic but my phone REALLY wants to autocorrect your username to Merriam and it's annoying but hilarious.
This was the other point in my rambling I was trying to make. Every card AST pulls should be able to allow the entire group to shift more resources towards dps, whether less healing is needed to due Bole or Spear lets a DPS CD come back faster, or even Ewer allowing one to be a bit more spammy with the Benefic 2. I can think of very, very, very few card combos at any particular time that would be outright useless in a tough raid.
Anyway, thank you both for talking about that stuff w me! i really need to see that video when i get home.
take care and have fun dont be a stranger ravioli <3
Just got into the last quest for the anima weapon and I've read a bit about it, so at least I have a bit of understanding on how it works.
However, what is considered the fastest way to the the items for someone who hasn't done any beast tribe quests? Should I go for Alexander runs or should I stick to doing my roulettes and do several dungeons each day?
However, what is considered the fastest way to the the items for someone who hasn't done any beast tribe quests? Should I go for Alexander runs or should I stick to doing my roulettes and do several dungeons each day?
Do your duty roulettes, hunts, and maybe some Alexander from time to time. Also if you see any Coil/Primal poetics bonuses in Party Finder, jump on those when you can. But really roulettes go a long way.
Will do! Thanks for the advice!
I'm at 20/80 for the relic. Solid progress. Go back to uni in... six weeks so maybe I can no life it and reach it by then.
I have no idea how I'm gonna be able to afford the crafted materials though. Really wish that part wasn't in it. If you're gonna make me grind, fine. But putting another gate on top of that? Blah.
I have no idea how I'm gonna be able to afford the crafted materials though. Really wish that part wasn't in it. If you're gonna make me grind, fine. But putting another gate on top of that? Blah.
Controller.
Kk. Is Gilgamesh still the go-to server for PvE oriented players? I'm just going to join whichever server will allow me to find groups with relative ease.
don't listen to kagari
try them both and see what you like more
Gilgamesh is the most populated server if that's what your looking for
what i did was look up a guide for DRK on youtube to get a idea on how the class plays and plan your hotbars
Probably.
Probably, but be warned the attitudes on there are focused more on the hardcore. Mike D can tell you about that.
don't listen to kagari
try them both and see what you like more
Gilgamesh is the most populated server if that's what your looking for
Beautiful. Downloading now. I'm assuming I have to DL the ARR content first and then Heavensward will follow, so I doubt I'll be playing tonight. Maybe I'll get to create a character, at least.
I'm going to have to do that. It's the first time I've been overwhelmed by skills on a hero type job. They honestly should have slow rolled you into the skills or just started you at level 1. Would have been much easier and 1-30 doesn't take long anyways.
Reading over the skills would be faster than going from level 1 to 3. Level 4 if this is your first tank. Not to mention the clunkiness of having incomplete combo rotations, which Paladin doesn't even get at 30.
Grit is your tank stance. Leave this on,
Darkside is your damage buff. Leave this on and keep it up with Syphon Strike combo.
Unmend is your ranged pull.
Unleash is your AoE threat.
Hard > Spinning > Power Slash is your single target threat combo.
Hard > Syphon Strike > Souleater is your damage/MP combo when you don't need threat.
Shadowskin is your tank cooldown.
Reprisal can be thrown out on proc.
I thought it was pretty straightforward, it's just a mix of pld/war stuff. If you've never played tank or melee I guess it'd be confusing but I just mirror skills on bars for all those classes. The basic flow, at least that level, is the same across all melee due to how combos work. It's not until later that DRK begins to break away from the other tanks in terms of set up. Get ready for the oGCD spam.
I'm very glad I didn't have to do level 1-30 for it. Video shouldn't be needed, and if you really feel you need those levels just go level GLD or something and then switch to DRK at 30?
Did you decide on warrior or machinist relic?
Ragingnight
Member
got to lvl 20 and upgraded from trial to the base game.
I liking it so far. I'll try to get to 50 then server transfer to someplace possibly. Currently on Sargatanas(sp?).
I liking it so far. I'll try to get to 50 then server transfer to someplace possibly. Currently on Sargatanas(sp?).
irfaanator
Banned
That was my face when we got DRG loot again.
Got gifted a copy of the Heavensward art book and looked at the artifact gear.
SMN eso was designed by the same person who made AF1. She wanted something "lighter."
BLM is only eso design by Akihiko Yoshida (and also the one everyone glamours over rip).
NIN gi is left open to bring attention to the inner shirt. :3
Diadem promotional artwork was using Idyllshire backdrop until two days before Live Letter.
3.0 Y'shtola concept art has no ZR hmm.
SMN eso was designed by the same person who made AF1. She wanted something "lighter."
BLM is only eso design by Akihiko Yoshida (and also the one everyone glamours over rip).
NIN gi is left open to bring attention to the inner shirt. :3
Diadem promotional artwork was using Idyllshire backdrop until two days before Live Letter.
3.0 Y'shtola concept art has no ZR hmm.
I'm at level 56 Edgelord and I've only got two spaces left for the next two techniques on my 2nd hotbar.
